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+ www.altyfans.co.uk » General Category » Altrincham FC First Team
 Reality check!!
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Author Topic: Reality check!!  (Read 11596 times)

EX GK

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2008, 12:33:36 PM »

Ecky, what about full time training facilities? Full time coaching staff? More to full time than full time players.
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markecky

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2008, 12:36:44 PM »

The problem with banning season tickets is two fold,
1. You get a source of income in the summer when little else is coming in.
2. Its money in the bank, how many fans might have just sacked two or three games off if they hadn't already paid to get in.


Thats spot on re the summer income.  Its something we all do at the end of April, forget about football, enjoy our lives for a couple of months and then wait for the fixtures to come out.  However the bills still keep coming in.

I bet there are people with season tickets who have stopped coming..so its might be a good job we have a hold on some others.

I never used to buy a season ticket because I used to think that the club would make better use of my money in instalments.  I get one now as I have to miss the odd  home game but still feel i have contributed.

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markecky

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2008, 12:37:36 PM »

Ecky, what about full time training facilities? Full time coaching staff? More to full time than full time players.

Oh indeed.  I'm not saying its an easy step at all, I just don't think the leap is as massive as some people might think.
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Amsterdam Alty

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2008, 12:42:01 PM »

there are several places i can think of, the British airways club on clay lane is always empty for one and i'm sure some sort of sponsorship deal could be struck up. shorts sponsor, training kit sponsor etc.
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EX GK

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2008, 12:55:11 PM »

This is developing into a real dabate, Longsden, how much to hire British Airways facility? £100 per day? £500 per week, £2000 per month, £16,000 for the season. That's a lot of sponsorship mate from training kit, etc. Then there's full time coaching staff, groundstaff to take care of the training facility, alternate training facilities for extreme weather, the list is endless. All sounds great untill the realities are brought to the fore.
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Ballers

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2008, 01:33:26 PM »

With regards to season tickets I can tell you that of the 300+ we have sold about 100 of them do not actually come to home games. So in effect, with the average cost of it being £7 (£170/23 league games approx£7), the season tickets actually make us £700 from peopel not there. Obviously the 200 who turn up are paying £1,400 less than they would so in effect....gate receipts are only down by £700. And the bosst from income during the summer is immeasurable, altho figuratively it's about £50,000.

Also, bear in mind that this looks good on balance sheets and re-assures the bank manager.

I found that one of the most bizarre things I'd ever heard when I was told but then consider it is people like Ecky, may miss 2/3 home games a season but it's still worth his while financially to purchase one, I know Jimmy Hill has one despite being a student in Oxford, his brother uses it when he isn't here but again, not every game. Still worthwhile though.

The putting up prices debate was done a lot at the start of the season and I think we've probably reached our limit for this level of football, particularly as one of the more 'price elastic' clubs in the league - i.e. putting our prices up would put off more people. Unfortunately this works slightly differently if you put prices down, we wouldn't necessarily get more through the gate!  ::)

You have to charge the same amount for away fans as you do home. Some clubs charge away fans more by only making seating available to them but even then it's just paying what the home fans pay for seating. As we are one of the few clubs who make away fans go on an open terrace we can't really do that. Sometimes we let them under the stand if it's raining or a la Stevenage put htem in the family stand. I suppose you could argue to charge them more then but it's slightly churlish and we keep a bit of dignity by not doing so.

The Full Time thing is a really interesting one, I personally, couldn't see it happening but it's only right that we should at least sonsider the possibilities. I think what should have happened is that the wideboys living beyond their means should have cut down. It looked for example as if Gravesend, Weymouth, Crawley, Grays, Northwich and others would go part time and there would be 10-12 clubs in this league who were aprt time. It would then be feasible to be part time and compete. That hasn't happened though and the problem is that the clubs who come up are either like this season battling for 5th bottom or will more likely next season be full time clubs.

If Kettering and Telford come up from Conference North (and the 2 from the south are similar/full time) in place of, well 4 of the current bottom 5 then you will have a league with 20 south/southern midlans sides who are full time. Competing in this league part time when there are 7 or others is feasible, if there's only 2 of you then it just isn't and needs to be looked at.

Full time is a huge leap though, like exGk says, Training facilities being the most obvious. There would also be a shift in the way things are done. This club runs on unpaid volunteers, everyone does something for nothing really and you can't just pay someone to do something without keeping the volunteers on. I'm not saying that the volunteers would suddenly wnat paying but it's a hard shift to make. I'm not really explaining it very well but it's not as easy as saying 'oh get paid people in', it might work at Oxford where you  need a arge amount of staff.

Anyway.
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Jacko

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2008, 01:34:17 PM »

you only have to look at stockport who train next to BA and opposite my house with great facility's, probebly the best two patches of football land  in the area but.....

i often watch from my window and they train long ball football to kids and get them to cross it in before taking a touch,same for 1st team

 what im saying is method is more important than apperatus, OH and BA's facilitys are now none existent
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The Fan

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2008, 03:00:25 PM »


Someone put a call out to Carole Nash !!!!! 
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Darren

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2008, 04:05:00 PM »

The problem with banning season tickets is two fold,
1. You get a source of income in the summer when little else is coming in.
2. Its money in the bank, how many fans might have just sacked two or three games off if they hadn't already paid to get in.


Thats spot on re the summer income.  Its something we all do at the end of April, forget about football, enjoy our lives for a couple of months and then wait for the fixtures to come out.  However the bills still keep coming in.

I bet there are people with season tickets who have stopped coming..so its might be a good job we have a hold on some others.

I never used to buy a season ticket because I used to think that the club would make better use of my money in instalments.  I get one now as I have to miss the odd  home game but still feel i have contributed.


I was told if you are full time you have to pay players for 50 weeks as where they are part time as of now you only have to pay for 40 weeks not completely sure of the full facts.
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@AltyDaz

Hodgey

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2008, 04:22:45 PM »

The debate continues .....

I believe the best chance we have of moving forward comes from more success on the pitch, then more people come through the gates, the more they spend at the ground and more money we make. Its a vicious circle I KNOW, as the better players come at a cost. Lets pick on manchester united, the second team in Trafford, they partner with the Belgium’s as a feeder club. Is there a rule stopping Alty helping the potential Man Utd players gaining league experience? As I wonder what sort of level the Belgium reserve league is at? What do the Utd supporters do when they cant get a ticket or they are playing away. Watch FC United maybe? Can they be encouraged to attend with the assistance of Utd? If not why would they not want to come?

I don’t know the answer to any of the questions above, although I could guess not being  full time covers most of the issues with players, but I know we need to double the average attendance to stop a hand to mouth existence

Stop ranting now
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Foz

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2008, 05:31:49 PM »


Here's a few radical ideas as to the way to bring better players to Alty:

- Bin Season Tickets - I have one and I bought it because I know I will go to every home game (at least) and it was dirt cheap. If there was no season tickets would I still go to every game? Yep. I don't think it would put people off as those who have bought them are obviously loyal fans. If my maths is correct, 23 x £12 = £276. If my season ticket was £170 (cant remember to be honest) thats a £106 difference. Is there 200 season ticket holders? If so, thats £21,000 + in the coffers.

- Increase prices. Simple. £1 a ticket. Average home support is, say, 800 so thats £800 per game. 23 x £800 = £18,400.  

- Charge Away fans what they pay at home. We are one of the cheapest and I cannot see how or why we cannot amend our away prices for the opposition. If the average away attendance is, say, 250 and this brings in an average of, say, £2 extra per away fan per game 23 x 250 x £2 = £11,500

So £21,000 + £18,400 + £11,500 = £50,900.

Its maybe not 100% mathematically correct and there are variables but the theory is sound (I think !!!). Its a start .......
 

I think that a few people have already commented on the ideas you have suggested.

The first is an interesting idea. I don't know the exact numbers, but i believe that, as Ballers says there are quite a few season ticket holders for every game who don't turn up.

Also remember that this seasons price for tickets was unusually low due to the uncertainty of the league we were in. We were already selling tickets before the news of our reprieve came through. This meant that the board couldn't really change the prices for them.

From memory, the original plan was 21 games at £10 in the conference north (due to 2 less teams). This changed to 23 at £12 when we got our reprieve. I would therefore suggest that, in future years the saving on season tickets will not be so high.

Also adding the cashflow advantage of having the money up front,I would suspect that this would in ordinary seasons not be a profitable scheme.

As for price increases, the debate on that could go on forever.....

I believe Ballers is also right that it is illegal to charge away fans more than home fans for the same facilities.
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Moomin Papa

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2008, 05:45:01 PM »

But away fans dont have the same facilities?
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Foz

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2008, 05:50:55 PM »

But away fans dont have the same facilities?


Indeed, I think this (lack of roof on the away end) was a loophole that a few clubs used to use. I think that this loophole has been closed.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 05:57:12 PM by Foz »
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Moomin Papa

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2008, 05:54:39 PM »

The roof is closed? When did we roof it?
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Longman

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Re: Reality check!!
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2008, 05:59:11 PM »

The roof is closed? When did we roof it?

It's not roofed, I think what Foz means is that the loophole of clubs trying to get cheaper ticket prices for their away fans due to our lack of shelter provided for them has closed.

Think that's right anyway Foz?
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+ www.altyfans.co.uk » General Category » Altrincham FC First Team
 Reality check!!