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[Hugh]

The average crowds for the NL this season were approximately 3,341 - though obviously this would be slightly more if play off matches were included. This is a new record for the NL. Significantly, this is also the first time that every club has averaged over 1,000. Even Boreham Wood got an average of 1,185 - more than the 1,173 Workington averaged in the 4th division in 1973-74, when they were nonetheless voted back into the football league after finishing second bottom. If they were good enough for the league, so is anyone currently in NL. And obviously Wood would get considerably higher crowds as a league team. Even the lowest crowd of the season was over 700 (702 for Gateshead vs Dagenham and Redbridge) - more, for example than the third division crowd of 450 between Rochdale and Cambridge United in 1974.

With at least one of Chesterfield and Notts County going to miss out on promotion, and Crawley Town staying up after finishing third bottom, surely now would be the time for three up - at least if common sense had anything to do with it!

I'll also say this. Whilst there may be some understandable irritation at the Hollywood portrayal of Wrexham triumphing against the odds, because of them, English non-league football has been brought to an audience of probably millions world wide, surely a positive going forward, and something that we could scarcely have imagined back in 1991 when the first ever non-league match was televised!

[Hugh]

To put this season's average National League crowds of 3,341 into some sort of perspective, here are the average crowds by my calculations for some 4th division seasons in the 80s and 90s:

1980-81 - 3,082
1982-83 - 2,812
1983-84 - 2,822
1984-85 - 2,519
1985-86 - 2,551
1986-87 - 3,108
1987-88 - 3,210
1988-89 - 3,245
1990-91 - 3,204
1992-93 - 2,334

Note particularly the big increase in crowds after play-offs and automatic relegation were introduced in 1986-87. Note also that in 10 out of 13 seasons there were smaller d4 crowds than there were in the NL this season. I say that it would benefit everyone to have 3 or even 4 up - there would be an increase in fl2 crowds with less dead rubber fixtures; it would be easier for the likes of Chesterfield and Rochdale to get back in the league; it would be a more exciting NL; it would make it easier for new clubs like Woking to get in the FL. And the likes of Crawley would no longer avoid relegation finishing third from bottom (like Barrow in 1972). It's bizarre that they could get voted out but Crawley could not get relegated. Every league now from League one down to step 4 (where the newly formed Macclesfield FC played this season) will relegate four clubs with the exception of league 2. It's high time this anomaly ended.

[swindellsworth]

Great stats there and it's obvious to all other than the FL that there should be more promotion places . It may take another 3 , 4 or even 5 years to get a third place , 4 teams up is pie in the sky for the foreseeable future imo .
 On another subject i was speaking to a Sheff Wed (  average gate  24,500 ) season ticket holder last week who assured me that Wrexham's wage bill was bigger than their's !  I know full well they are a unique case but yet again an indication of the kind of financial clout we are competing against .

[Hugh]

Didn't Wrexham sign a first team player from Charlton? Absolutely crazy for this level! Is there any sort of a wage cap, or can clubs still spend like Brackley, Colne, Grays etc.?

I seem to remember that the FL only allowed two up because they were in a bit of a bind after the ITV Digital collapse. A similar story in 1986 when there was a threat of a breakaway league by the big clubs (even if Bob Hopkins helped a bit!). I wonder if it will take some sort of crisis to bring about three up?

[andrewflynn]

FYI on our away attendances, because I did some research for our next podcast, and thought it would add to this thread.

We averaged ~115 away in the league this season. I am not sure where this stands us in the league, but you'd imagine it's close to the bottom.

8/23 of the away games saw us take less than 50.

The average is heavily skewed by the 609 we took to Oldham. If you ignore the 'popular' trio of Oldham, Halifax and Wrexham (giving a better average of our hardcore away turnout) we averaged ~70.

Note: Estimated figures as five fixtures had no recorded away attendance.

[CRT Butty]

FYI on our away attendances, because I did some research for our next podcast, and thought it would add to this thread.

We averaged ~115 away in the league this season. I am not sure where this stands us in the league, but you'd imagine it's close to the bottom.

8/23 of the away games saw us take less than 50.

The average is heavily skewed by the 609 we took to Oldham. If you ignore the 'popular' trio of Oldham, Halifax and Wrexham (giving a better average of our hardcore away turnout) we averaged ~70.

Note: Estimated figures as five fixtures had no recorded away attendance.

That feels about right, many thanks for number crunching. The other 'popular ' away is York which was midweek away last season. On top of the cold many had spent their money on the Trophy game. We'd have taken 200+ to a Saturday away there.

[Hugh]

I remember one time we brought about 40 to Cleethorpes on a Tuesday night (we were searched for flares!), and I thought it was a bit of a poor turnout. Then I read in the programme that Southport only brought 17! And I'm sure Eastleig took about ten to Moss Lane for a midweek match (including one griumpy fellow in a wheelchair).

I wonder what the least we've brought to away match is? If we restrict it to league matches post Maunders, I don't think it'd be less than about 20 anyway. What did we take to the rearranged game at Yeovil last season? That must have been one of our smaller followings.

[CRT Butty]

Histon took 0 to Wrexham some years ago.

[Saughall Robin]

There's always the famous one fan of Horwich together with his flag guarded by four stewards in the Dagenham away end. 😊

There's a pic of it somewhere on line.

[Bath Alty]

I remember one time we brought about 40 to Cleethorpes on a Tuesday night (we were searched for flares!), and I thought it was a bit of a poor turnout. Then I read in the programme that Southport only brought 17! And I'm sure Eastleig took about ten to Moss Lane for a midweek match (including one griumpy fellow in a wheelchair).

I wonder what the least we've brought to away match is? If we restrict it to league matches post Maunders, I don't think it'd be less than about 20 anyway. What did we take to the rearranged game at Yeovil last season? That must have been one of our smaller followings.

From memory I was one of 27 at Yeovil on a Tuesday night watching hampson (?) play in goal for most of the game. That included a couple of scouts watching a player on loan at the home side

[Hugh]

Whatever happened to Horwich Railwaymen's Institute? Have they officially gone the way of New Brighton and the dodo?

[Sale Holmfield]

The Histon and Leigh/Horwich stories should be found online for anyone who wants to look.

For an Alty away game, my lowest is 7 for a game at Loakes Park,Wycombe in 1986 which we won 1-0 through an own goal. That was a midweek match when I was living on the south coast, which is still a fair way from High Wycombe, I promise you!

I did hear something about 3 at a segregated midweek match at Darlington a little later which I didn't attend, but that's just hearsay.

As Hugh implies, the away support at that period in the late eighties and early nineties when we didn't have a particularly good team, 1990-91 apart, but still had many distant games, was probably the period when our away support was at its lowest.

[Sale Holmfield]

Whatever happened to Horwich Railwaymen's Institute? Have they officially gone the way of New Brighton and the dodo?

There is a Horwich RMI in the Manchester League Division 2, but I think they are an unconnected club who just took on the name of their so-called predecessors. By  a strange coincidence, they are in the same division as Leight Genesis, who continued as a youth team when the original team folded, and have now re-entered adult mens' football.

[Sarf London Alty]

FYI on our away attendances, because I did some research for our next podcast, and thought it would add to this thread.

We averaged ~115 away in the league this season. I am not sure where this stands us in the league, but you'd imagine it's close to the bottom.

8/23 of the away games saw us take less than 50.

The average is heavily skewed by the 609 we took to Oldham. If you ignore the 'popular' trio of Oldham, Halifax and Wrexham (giving a better average of our hardcore away turnout) we averaged ~70.

Note: Estimated figures as five fixtures had no recorded away attendance.

Really interesting research. The thing is here whilst our home average has basically doubled (and a bit more) under Parky, the core away support is arguably now less than when we were getting 800 at home. Completely mad really. Undoubtedly some of it is the geography of our current league where every other Saturday seems to be an 8 hour round trip doesn’t help.

[Ukrainian Alty]

Time to subsume the National League into EFL2 and regionalise it North & South.

"The time is right to do it now" (Pistols'79)