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[VofD]

Hmmm.

A building is erected which results in my main stand seat having a restricted view of the pitch and now I am being asked to pay for the privilege.

Nothing against the concept of the CSH but weren't we reassured that fundraising for it would not impinge on the established sources of income/fundraising for the football club?

It's clearly not ideal that your seat has a restricted view of the pitch, however I would have thought that there are plenty of other seats available that do not have such restrictions.

Really?

You don't say?!

Forgive me, Brian, but that is an extremely glib response and one that's very easy to throw out by someone who is tucked away nicely on his free seat in the gantry.

I purchased my season ticket back in June in good faith.

The club should have advised me beforehand that my chosen seat of many seasons now has a restricted view of the pitch.

They didn't.

Still nobody has actually accepted responsibility for this architectural cock-up or even apologised for it.

Why should I have to move from my seat just because Ian Foden's grasp of geometry is clearly deficient?

Isn't it funny how the Flaggers have been accommodated with some new terracing and a bit of roof cover.

Now, could that possibly be because that just happens to be the area where Ian Foden himself stands?

Perhaps they should have been inconvenienced and told to relocate, too, and then the CSH could have been extended out even further.....and I could have looked at a few more bricks when we get a corner at the Golf Road End?

          

Spot on, Cult.

[PukkaPieman]

Whats matters most, the future financial security of the club or a few seats with a restricted view ? The CSH is going to transform the club's long term future.

The CSH would never have been viable if built far enough back so as not to affect the view, the club knew all along that the CSH would affect the view, however since until the play off final we had not had a full stand for 30+ years it wasnt seen as something critical and anyway 80% of the main stand seats are still fine. I agree that the club should ideally have notified the dozen or so season ticket holders who are affected but I suspect that it was just overlooked with so much going on in the summer, I know it wasn't a deliberate thing.

The very small terrace was done so as not to create a brick wall 6 feet from the pitch which would have looked awful. It doesnt bother me in the least where I stand in the ground, I have spent the last 6 months on the popular side myself and its fine.

The club has made sure that the CSH funding has NOT affected the clubs normal funding at all, this request is only to enhance the matchday experience of fans for improved TV and WAP broadband access and if you dont want to contribute then dont.

You never know, in a few years time in the football league maybe the club can afford to build a new main stand without a column in the middle and each side and then even cult will be happy.

[B. 4D]

As a Flagger, I have had to move.
Not happy, but life goes on.
All the best to the club.

[Jimmy]

Although the csh may well be very good for the club it would be a good idea for the club as token gesture apologised about the poor view of the pitch it has created for several fans in the main stand rather than a sarcastic reply on a forum

[Brian Flynn]

How urgent is the need for this 10k. Could we not arrange a friendly with one of the big N West teams for the end of season to offset the cost or is the money needed sooner rather than later.

Very good question.

It's quite urgent Ray, in that we need the money to be available, or at least in the future projected cash flow through monthly standing orders.

Your suggestion is something that was planned for the initial fundraising for the Community Sports Hall. A friendly was planned & set up for February this year against a team who played in The Champions League last season, however it was cancelled due to concerns that the damage to the pitch might jeopardise our promotion challenge (it was around the time that the big black patches started to appear on the pitch). It's possible that a similar friendly could be arranged between now & May to generate funds for the Community Sports Hall.....this initiative is to raise £10,000 to kit the hall out to a high specification, but there is still a lot of money to be raised for the construction costs of the hall itself. I don't know the figure, but I would estimate that it is £50-£60,000.

[Brian Flynn]

Have we not consider a kick starter kind of thing?

Not sure if kick starter or the others charge fees but the style of fundraising could work?

Thanks Jack....I have had a look at the 'Kickstarter' website at:-

https://www.kickstarter.com/

It's not immediately obvious to me how this might be a better route to go down, but I may be missing something?

Effectively, whilst Kick start do take a lot of fees, it is a way of crowd sourcing g investments but also encourages people to feel involved with every details of a project and feel they've played a role. Hyde kitted their bar out in a similar fashion after the bar was set alight

The club offers different levels of investment in exchange for small gifts rising to large gifts. However The money is only collected if the total is collected.

The gifts on Hyde ' s weren't the best such as chance to be on their radio for the day, but I'm sure we could offer something

Jack...the ball is rolling on this now, but your idea might be a good way forward for future projects. I'll invite you to the next TASC meeting (I know that Monday is not good for you as you train with the Supporters Team, but the next meeting is on Tuesday December 9th).

[Mick]

Nobody else has said so yet, so I will say that it is a bit unfair to take a swipe at Brian Flynn for having a "free seat in the gantry"......Most, if not all those in the gantry, are doing 'media' work for the club and its supporters i.e Radio Robins and Alty TV.

[Brian Flynn]

Hmmm.

A building is erected which results in my main stand seat having a restricted view of the pitch and now I am being asked to pay for the privilege.

Nothing against the concept of the CSH but weren't we reassured that fundraising for it would not impinge on the established sources of income/fundraising for the football club?

It's clearly not ideal that your seat has a restricted view of the pitch, however I would have thought that there are plenty of other seats available that do not have such restrictions.

Really?

You don't say?!

Forgive me, Brian, but that is an extremely glib response and one that's very easy to throw out by someone who is tucked away nicely on his free seat in the gantry.

I purchased my season ticket back in June in good faith.

The club should have advised me beforehand that my chosen seat of many seasons now has a restricted view of the pitch.

They didn't.

Still nobody has actually accepted responsibility for this architectural cock-up or even apologised for it.

Why should I have to move from my seat just because Ian Foden's grasp of geometry is clearly deficient?

Isn't it funny how the Flaggers have been accommodated with some new terracing and a bit of roof cover.

Now, could that possibly be because that just happens to be the area where Ian Foden himself stands?

Perhaps they should have been inconvenienced and told to relocate, too, and then the CSH could have been extended out even further.....and I could have looked at a few more bricks when we get a corner at the Golf Road End?

           

I apologise if that was the way that this came across.That was not intentional, but reading it back, I can see why you have interpreted it in this way.

Unfortunately, nobody has a free seat in the gantry. This is because from a seated position anywhere on the gantry, it is possible to only view a very small proportion of the pitch, therefore everybody (Mark from Alty TV/The Radio Robins team/Our opponents video team) has to stand up. This is not ideal for anyone up there, particularly Mark & I who are on our feet for at least 6 hours on a matchday/night, however that's what it is.

In terms of your season ticket seat, it is difficult for me to comment, as I don't know the full facts. My understanding is that you wrote to the club with your concerns & that the club has replied & offered you the option of relocating your seat or a full refund of your season ticket payment, which seems to have been a reasonable response.

I will refrain from commenting on your last few paragraphs as this content is aimed at the club/Ian Foden & therefore it is probably more appropriate that they respond individually, should they wish, to you.

[Brian Flynn]

I have to agree with Cult particularly re moving seats. ..I get pissed off when we can't stand under the Gantry due to a massive scaffolding structure being there so the likes of Paddy Crerand can hobble up to the commentary posn. Football fans have favoured positions to watch games from and I expect Cult has sat there for many a season.


I stand on the popular side simply because back in the 50s/60s that's where I stood with my Dad.

I think the attitude of saying to fans with restricted views "Just move then" is crass at best and in poor taste. (Very surprised with that attitude).  Dont bite the hand that feeds you. Maybe a bit of PR training is needed especially now that the opening of the CSH
is imminent

I am very  sorry, Ray, if that is how my comments came across. I will try to choose my words more carefully in future.

[distancetraveller]

No problem Brian. Knowing you as I do I am sure there wasn't any malice intended..

I do agree with Mick and acknowledge that you folks in the gantry do a superb job giving us highlights / commentary / interviews and pictures of an excellent standard.

Plus you all have to scale the ladder of death to get up there in the first place, which is no mean feat in itself.

[TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe]

Hmmm.

A building is erected which results in my main stand seat having a restricted view of the pitch and now I am being asked to pay for the privilege.

Nothing against the concept of the CSH but weren't we reassured that fundraising for it would not impinge on the established sources of income/fundraising for the football club?

It's clearly not ideal that your seat has a restricted view of the pitch, however I would have thought that there are plenty of other seats available that do not have such restrictions.

Really?

You don't say?!

Forgive me, Brian, but that is an extremely glib response and one that's very easy to throw out by someone who is tucked away nicely on his free seat in the gantry.

I purchased my season ticket back in June in good faith.

The club should have advised me beforehand that my chosen seat of many seasons now has a restricted view of the pitch.

They didn't.

Still nobody has actually accepted responsibility for this architectural cock-up or even apologised for it.

Why should I have to move from my seat just because Ian Foden's grasp of geometry is clearly deficient?

Isn't it funny how the Flaggers have been accommodated with some new terracing and a bit of roof cover.

Now, could that possibly be because that just happens to be the area where Ian Foden himself stands?

Perhaps they should have been inconvenienced and told to relocate, too, and then the CSH could have been extended out even further.....and I could have looked at a few more bricks when we get a corner at the Golf Road End?

          

I apologise if that was the way that this came across.That was not intentional, but reading it back, I can see why you have interpreted it in this way.

Unfortunately, nobody has a free seat in the gantry. This is because from a seated position anywhere on the gantry, it is possible to only view a very small proportion of the pitch, therefore everybody (Mark from Alty TV/The Radio Robins team/Our opponents video team) has to stand up. This is not ideal for anyone up there, particularly Mark & I who are on our feet for at least 6 hours on a matchday/night, however that's what it is.

In terms of your season ticket seat, it is difficult for me to comment, as I don't know the full facts. My understanding is that you wrote to the club with your concerns & that the club has replied & offered you the option of relocating your seat or a full refund of your season ticket payment, which seems to have been a reasonable response.

Brian,

I interpreted your comments exactly as they were written: dismissive and offhand.

Frankly, as both a supporter of a slightly longer vintage than myself and someone who until only recently was a fellow dweller at the rear of the main stand, I expected better from you of all people.

However, we shall move on....

Your understanding is incorrect.

It was evident at the first home pre-season friendly that the Community Sports Hall would result in several seats in the main stand inheriting a restricted view of the pitch.

However, I have been waiting until the completion of the building so that I could then assess the full and lasting impact of this obstruction/intrusion on our view.

Elsewhere on this Forum, the ostensible designer of this edifice, one Ian Foden, states that "the club knew all along that the CSH would affect the view".

Accepting that to be true, then (i) why did the club knowingly sell restricted view season tickets without advising those who were paying full price for them of this new detrimental factor and (ii) why has the club not contacted those season ticket holders whose view has been devalued in order to offer an apology at the very least.

I would have thought that the onus was on the club itself to take the initiative in this matter.

Or do they not really care about the way that they treat certain loyal supporters of many years?

I can assure you that I have not received any apology in writing nor any formal written offers regarding a refund.

One Director is fully aware of my thoughts (and the thoughts of one or two others) pertaining to this matter, however, nothing official whatsoever has been placed in writing as yet.

Consequently, correspondence to the Board of Directors will now have to be undertaken.

We're not asking for the CSH to be torn down, for Heaven's sake!

All we would like is to be treated with a degree of common decency.

    


 



  

[TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe]

As a Flagger, I have had to move.
Not happy, but life goes on.
All the best to the club.

Brian,

You've only had to move about 30 yards though.....and now you've got a nice new rail to lean upon and also a new roof over your head.

Not exactly a bad deal!

You'll be demanding waitress service from the bar next...!

[TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe]

Nobody else has said so yet, so I will say that it is a bit unfair to take a swipe at Brian Flynn for having a "free seat in the gantry"......Most, if not all those in the gantry, are doing 'media' work for the club and its supporters i.e Radio Robins and Alty TV.

Mick,

Some people will no doubt disagree with my thoughts on this issue but here goes....

I would make a notable exception regarding Mark from Alty TV (whose laudable work editing and producing highlights goes on well after the final whistle has sounded), however, I would expect the likes of Brian Flynn and John Edwards to have purchased season tickets regardless of their media work for the club.

If that is, indeed, the case, then I apologise for my use of the term 'free' in a previous post.

It has, of course, since been established that Flynny does not have access to an armchair in the gantry.

 

[TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe]

Although the csh may well be very good for the club it would be a good idea for the club as token gesture apologised about the poor view of the pitch it has created for several fans in the main stand rather than a sarcastic reply on a forum

Jimmy,

Many thanks for those comments.

Much appreciated.

[TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe]

Whats matters most, the future financial security of the club or a few seats with a restricted view ? The CSH is going to transform the club's long term future.

The CSH would never have been viable if built far enough back so as not to affect the view, the club knew all along that the CSH would affect the view, however since until the play off final we had not had a full stand for 30+ years it wasnt seen as something critical and anyway 80% of the main stand seats are still fine. I agree that the club should ideally have notified the dozen or so season ticket holders who are affected but I suspect that it was just overlooked with so much going on in the summer, I know it wasn't a deliberate thing.

The very small terrace was done so as not to create a brick wall 6 feet from the pitch which would have looked awful. It doesnt bother me in the least where I stand in the ground, I have spent the last 6 months on the popular side myself and its fine.

The club has made sure that the CSH funding has NOT affected the clubs normal funding at all, this request is only to enhance the matchday experience of fans for improved TV and WAP broadband access and if you dont want to contribute then dont.

You never know, in a few years time in the football league maybe the club can afford to build a new main stand without a column in the middle and each side and then even cult will be happy.

Ian,

Thanks for your kind apology.

Oh no, sorry, there wasn't one.

Oh well, thanks for your heartfelt sarcasm and contempt anyway.

You really are devoid of any empathy genes, aren't you?

I'm really not convinced that as many as 80% of the seats in the main stand are unaffected by this development.

So, we've not had a full stand for 30+ years, have we?

Erm...

Wigan Athletic (1987);

Barnet and Wycombe (1991);

Chester City (1992);

Wigan Athletic (1994) and

Darlington (2001)

to name just a few examples.

FA Cup replays against Luton Town and Burton Albion, respectively, and visits from the likes of Wrexham and Stockport County in recent years have also seen the main stand pretty well-occupied, in my memory.

It's just as well that we lost at Blyth and thereby avoided any subsequent potential 'big' FA Cup tie having to be staged at the J Davidson Stadium then!

How much would you have considered charging for those seats in the main stand from where you can't even see the goal at the Golf Road End?

"The very small terrace was done so as not to create a brick wall 6 feet from the pitch which would have looked awful."

Forgive me but that is claptrap, hogwash and piffle.

It was created out of self-interest.

There appears, to me, to be a dichotomy in existence here.

On the one hand, there are all the self-congratulatory posts saying how well the club has looked after the recently-retired Mike Williams during his long absence owing to injury .

Well, that's absolutely fine and commendable.

However, he has been associated with this club for merely 18 months.

Some of the season ticket holders whose view of the pitch you have so gleefully trampled over have been supporting Altrincham FC for in excess of 30, 40 and even 50 years.

Yet we are treated with arrant and utter disdain.

And, finally, if your bold prophecy of us reaching the Football League in the not-too-distant future is fulfilled and we do erect a new main stand, I pray to God that you won't be called upon to design it...!