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[stubmanred]

Trying to break up the morose nature of today, a nostalgia question for you forumites!

What is the maximum capacity that Moss Lane has ever held.

I know that the record attendance is 10,275 - Altrincham boys vs Sunderland boys English schools shield 1925!!!

But what is the max capacity that the ground was meant to hold at anyone time (i.e. before the morseleum or the family stand or even before the main stand was developed!)

I'm "advised" it was was c9000 but given the 6085 limit at present (as per non league directory). Can anybody advise in any certainty what it was??

Thanks,

PS - Today was a blip, we'll be back to winning ways on Tuesday!!

[PukkaPieman]

Trying to break up the morose nature of today, a nostalgia question for you forumites!

What is the maximum capacity that Moss Lane has ever held.

I know that the record attendance is 10,275 - Altrincham boys vs Sunderland boys English schools shield 1925!!!

But what is the max capacity that the ground was meant to hold at anyone time (i.e. before the morseleum or the family stand or even before the main stand was developed!)

I'm "advised" it was was c9000 but given the 6085 limit at present (as per non league directory). Can anybody advise in any certainty what it was??

Thanks,

PS - Today was a blip, we'll be back to winning ways on Tuesday!!

I can answer this,....in the old days stadia didnt actually have official capacities at all, you just crammed in as many as you could! The current ground capacity actually EXCLUDES the mauseleum as the terraces dont have crush barriers.

[SW]

Not quite true, there were limits particularly since Ibrox, but the science and understanding of crowd behaviour was in its infancy so most stadia capacities were based upon square meterage of terrace and number of seats rather than evacuation times, human behaviour etc. The green guide changed a lot of this when published after a series of major incidents in the 70's and 80's and then stadia became designated and under the control of the Local Authority who have to issue a Safety Certificate. The assessments these days take many factors into account and result generally in much lower capacities than were allowed some years ago. In a ground like ours it is highly likely that the overall stadium as measured could hold more than its actual limit but exit routes, widths, segregation measures, areas of roofing even dictate matters.
Back in the 70's I recall Moss Lane as having an arbitary figure of 10,000, that was with the away end being a grassed bank as was the mausoleum, and no barriers anywhere. Doesn't bear thinking about but it would then, if it came to it, have been up to the local plod, who have/had no experience or proper training in such issues.

[PukkaPieman]

Not quite true, there were limits particularly since Ibrox, but the science and understanding of crowd behaviour was in its infancy so most stadia capacities were based upon square meterage of terrace and number of seats rather than evacuation times, human behaviour etc. The green guide changed a lot of this when published after a series of major incidents in the 70's and 80's and then stadia became designated and under the control of the Local Authority who have to issue a Safety Certificate. The assessments these days take many factors into account and result generally in much lower capacities than were allowed some years ago. In a ground like ours it is highly likely that the overall stadium as measured could hold more than its actual limit but exit routes, widths, segregation measures, areas of roofing even dictate matters.
Back in the 70's I recall Moss Lane as having an arbitary figure of 10,000, that was with the away end being a grassed bank as was the mausoleum, and no barriers anywhere. Doesn't bear thinking about but it would then, if it came to it, have been up to the local plod, who have/had no experience or proper training in such issues.

You are quite right SW but I was just giving a very brief explanation particularly relating to what happended in 1927 when we had our biggest crowd. I design stadia and it was I who did Alty's ground in 1995/6 and agreed the current capacity with TMBC licensing, actually the biggest other factor you didnt mention is a factor for stewarding which at the time was pretty low but thanks to Darren and our excellent matchday team is now much better.

[Butty]

How many could the ground hold for a regular matchday now then? By that I mean how many people could be in the ground with an 'average' number of stewards?

[Darren]

How many could the ground hold for a regular matchday now then? By that I mean how many people could be in the ground with an 'average' number of stewards?

With the current safety cerificate its 6085 but if we were to play Stockport etc and give them a larger away end it gets reduced.

[PukkaPieman]

How many could the ground hold for a regular matchday now then? By that I mean how many people could be in the ground with an 'average' number of stewards?

It doesnt work like that. Once the max capacity for each area/stand is agreed it is fixed (or as Darren rightly says reduced if areas are made sterile due to segregation).
The turnstiles are used to monitor numbers and once an area is full the turnstiles are closed. I cant eve remember that happening yet, but it may have done.
When I did the capacities we only had to achieve 6000 at the time (to meet the FL rules) so we did as little work as poss as we couldnt afford more money for further improvements.

[SW]

How many could the ground hold for a regular matchday now then? By that I mean how many people could be in the ground with an 'average' number of stewards?

It doesnt work like that. Once the max capacity for each area/stand is agreed it is fixed (or as Darren rightly says reduced if areas are made sterile due to segregation).
The turnstiles are used to monitor numbers and once an area is full the turnstiles are closed. I cant eve remember that happening yet, but it may have done.
When I did the capacities we only had to achieve 6000 at the time (to meet the FL rules) so we did as little work as poss as we couldnt afford more money for further improvements.

The above is true but to expand, in a ground with seperated areas and turnstiles serving those areas alone it is much easier to control crowd limits in certain parts of the ground and therefore is beneficial to overall capacities. You do tend to need more expensive computerised turnstiles however. I believe AFC Wimbledon do this now and certainly did when at Plough Lane when I used to be involved in their safety certificate.

[Darren]

The stewards have hand held tally counters so we have a guide to how many have entered each area. They come in handy when Manchester united reserves play as most like to sit in the stands.
P.s Still not won guess the attendance yet