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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: blackpoolalty on October 27, 2009, 12:55:11 PM
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I hate to bang on about this again but....
http://www.chad.co.uk/stags/FA-to-probe-assault-on.5769385.jp
It seems Holdsworth has washed his hands of the incident, and said he asked the fourth official at the time who said he saw nothing. He then says his chairman has obviously got involved...
To be honest the game has been and gone and my own opinion is let it be, yes incidents happen in games but if we all sit and troll through 90 minutes of video footage after every game we'd have players out here there and everywhere. I'm not condoning what he did, but theres always two sides to every story.
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I'd have thought it's only fair to look at video evidence if you're able to do it in every game. Still, it's hard to defend Smithy there - he's bang out of order.
I suspect that's another player out for a while.
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Our lack of discipline in recent weeks is a major concern. We're picking up a lot of needless yellow/red cards and with a squad as small as ours we simply can't afford to have 2/3 players at a time sat in the stand suspended.
In addition to that we've got Chris Denham out injured due to a challenge which, I am reliably informed, was totally reckless on his part.
I hope this problem will be addressed sooner rather than later because I'd hate to see a good season ruined by our own stupidity. This group of players is better than that.
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Our lack of discipline in recent weeks is a major concern. We're picking up a lot of needless yellow/red cards and with a squad as small as ours we simply can't afford to have 2/3 players at a time sat in the stand suspended.
In addition to that we've got Chris Denham out injured due to a challenge which, I am reliably informed, was totally reckless on his part.
I hope this problem will be addressed sooner rather than later because I'd hate to see a good season ruined by our own stupidity. This group of players is better than that.
I totally agree with all of that. Our discipline is becoming a major issue.
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We are not a dirty team.
Most of the incidents this season have been against Mansfield, I suspect that isn't a coincidence.
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Our lack of discipline in recent weeks is a major concern. We're picking up a lot of needless yellow/red cards and with a squad as small as ours we simply can't afford to have 2/3 players at a time sat in the stand suspended.
In addition to that we've got Chris Denham out injured due to a challenge which, I am reliably informed, was totally reckless on his part.
I hope this problem will be addressed sooner rather than later because I'd hate to see a good season ruined by our own stupidity. This group of players is better than that.
I totally agree with all of that. Our discipline is becoming a major issue.
Who's taking control on the pitch ? Where's the quiet word in a team mates ear gone ? Lawton club captain been out suspened and injured, Kearney would fit captain perfectly but makes stupid rash challenge on Saturday.
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Our lack of discipline in recent weeks is a major concern. We're picking up a lot of needless yellow/red cards and with a squad as small as ours we simply can't afford to have 2/3 players at a time sat in the stand suspended.
In addition to that we've got Chris Denham out injured due to a challenge which, I am reliably informed, was totally reckless on his part.
I hope this problem will be addressed sooner rather than later because I'd hate to see a good season ruined by our own stupidity. This group of players is better than that.
I totally agree with all of that. Our discipline is becoming a major issue.
Spot on.
The five red cards we have incurred this season to date have all been self-inflicted wounds.
It's bad enough that we have missed out on any FA Cup revenue without potential FA disciplinary fines being on the horizon at this rate.
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We are not a dirty team.
Most of the incidents this season have been against Mansfield, I suspect that isn't a coincidence.
I agree, we're not a dirty team. However, we just seem incredibly naive and petulant sometimes. It's not just the red cards picked up against Mansfield (all of which were apparently deserved), it's the stupid bookings we've picked up in a lot of games which are going to hurt us in the long run if we can't field our best players regularly enough.
Like I said above, this team deserves better than that.
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We are not a dirty team.
Most of the incidents this season have been against Mansfield, I suspect that isn't a coincidence.
I agree, we're not a dirty team. However, we just seem incredibly naive and petulant sometimes. It's not just the red cards picked up against Mansfield (all of which were apparently deserved), it's the stupid bookings we've picked up in a lot of games which are going to hurt us in the long run if we can't field our best players regularly enough.
Like I said above, this team deserves better than that.
Exactly.
Chris Senior picking up four yellow cards and one red card already is, frankly, ludicrous.
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David Holdsworth deserves a lot of respect out of the two games in my opinion. He hasn't risen to the bait at all and has been quite reserved in his comments. Mansfield are a disciplined team that they can play it tough without getting over physical, and challenge without getting petulant. Maybe Altirincham management and players can learn a thing or two from Mansfield Town FC.
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Our discipline needs sorting quickly.
Self control needs to be brought to the fore.
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Having seen both matches I would suggest that Mansfield were particularly physical (see fouls count) but got away with a lot being the perceived bigger club. In the FA Cup match Perry's blatant dive early in the game merited a yellow but he got away with it, Mills and Duffy at our place were constantly fouling without the ref taking any action.
Yes discipline and self control does need to improve but let's see the standards and laws of the game being applied fairly to both clubs not just the bigger ones.
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There is a difference between persistent fouling and downright violent conduct though. We've been getting yellow/red cards for some ridiculously reckless and petulant behaviour which is totally unnecessary.
It's just frustrating that we've put ourselves in such a good position in the league but might now lose ground through our own stupidity.
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However persistent fouling leads to a yellow, and even more persistent fouling leads to another yellow. It doesnt take a genius to work out that yellow+ yellow= red
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However persistent fouling leads to a yellow, and even more persistent fouling leads to another yellow. It doesnt take a genius to work out that yellow+ yellow= red
I think you're missing my point slightly.
Sometimes you accept that, even playing within the spirit of the game, you pick up yellow cards for fouls which occasionally lead to reds. However, the red cards we've picked up lately have been for violent and/or petulant acts which are not remotely within the spirit of the game. I suppose it's a question of attitude and professionalism.
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If as it appears he's done it then he should be punished for it.
Let's put the boot on the other foot for a mo - If Speight had done that to Smithy and we had Video evidence would we just say "Oh well game's over and done with now let's forget it" Strangely I don't think so.
As is mentioned on a number of other threads over the past two or three weeks it seems that we have a MAJOR problem with discipline at the moment. Five Red cards another suspension looking likely for Smithy and Chris Denham damaging himself in a challenge which could itself have resulted in a Red.
Something needs to be done. We have little enough money without paying potentially draconian fines to the FA for totally avoidable reasons.
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Strange that between the two Mansfield games the supposedly equally high profile Luton match passed off with all the drama off a vicarage tea party.
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Yet more evidence that you're a team of thugs who spit the dummy out when you're losing. Your players need to realise that tackles like they've been dishing out could end someone's career. Also, your fans on here need to make their mind up whether they're going to call Mansfield a "big club" or not. We're not a big club and your fans seemed to think you needed to remind us of that between the games, but now it suits one of you to call us a "big club" to justify the referees' apparent bias.
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Bore off now mate,we don want to engage in season long conversation about this game,its been and gone.Youve proven via your chairman that your a classless bunch of mardarses that will never really achieve anything of any note.But then again the whole country Saw that in the 80s.So give it a rest,cos you'll be playing us for years.
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Yeah, we'll kick you about, getting 3 reds in 2 games with more deserved, have our manager tell your fans to f off and have our players square up to your fans, but lets just forget all about it and move on. And it's us that are "classless" is it?
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Yeah, we'll kick you about, getting 3 reds in 2 games with more deserved, have our manager tell your fans to f off and have our players square up to your fans, but lets just forget all about it and move on. And it's us that are "classless" is it?
Played Luton between the games with you. Very clean, no problems. Make of that what you will.
Bye.
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Will you be doing any more munich songs in your faded denims and primark cardigans or is the being forgotten about aswell?
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Fantastic! Yet another thread with a genuine point being made within it has been hijacked by Mansfield mongs.
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Will you be doing any more munich songs in your faded denims and primark cardigans or is the being forgotten about aswell?
You won't get an answer on that.
From top to bottom Mansfield are the perfect club, never fouled anyone, never sworn, never done a thing.
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Fantastic! Yet another thread with a genuine point being made within it has been hijacked by Mansfield mongs.
Well it is the rutting season.. Maybe they are on heat ;)
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FFS what is the matter with football these days. Years ago when charging goalkeepers was allowed a certain Alty keeper if charged would lay that player out the next time he was within reach and nobody went crying to mummy then.
I considered not renewing my season ticket for this season because of all the diving, cheating and crap referees. Any more reactions like Mansfields after winning a game and next year I will start watching ice hockey and forget this girlie game called football.
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just as a matter of interest what injuries did the Mansfield player suffer as a result of this alledged violent conduct? Such an alledged act would have resulted in very heavy bruising, broken nose, broken jaw, blood etc, didnt see any of that did anyone else?
Was there a clash of body parts or was the Mansfield player acting and diving? He seemd to roll around and around, have nothing wrong with him and then get up and run off. Seems strange doesnt it.
Perhaps a case of cheating again by Mansfield. They seem good at diving.
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Hopefully we will be sending footage to the FA of mills disgusting two footed leg breaker,shud see him out for 3 matches if they want to play that way
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Not to sure the FA should look at a video from Utube,they could be edited.If it was an offical video made by the FA or one of the major TV companies then i would say yes look at it as evidence,but anyone with an editing program and a computer can make anything and post it.
I am not saying he is guilty or not,but lets have proper evidence first,surpirsed the Mansfield chairman has gone down this road.
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Look, I know you have all had enough of us Mansfield fans on here by now and I do agree it's time to move on etc and although I have read lots of comments over the last few days, I intended not to leave any more comments myself - BUT H.Smith - don't be so ridiculous as to suggest that someone would edit the match video just to get Smith into trouble with the FA!! Were you actually at the game? Well I was sat right in line with the incident and let me tell you, he fair old walloped Speight as the video quite clearly shows and he was very fortunate not to have done him some real damage - if he had done that outside of the ground he would have been charged for assault - there's no place in football for that sort of behaviour - and yes, if it had been a Mansfield player I would be saying exactly the same - he wants punishing for what he did whether the ref saw it or not - and I notice that he did it from behind as well - really brave of him wasn't it? He should have apologised straight after the game for that but as he hasn't it tells you a lot about the sort of person he is. Maybe as Holdsworth says it was out of character for Smith to do that but nevertheless he should hang his head in shame.
Some of you lot have said some really sensible things over the last few days and I have really enjoyed reading your comments and I genuinely wish you well for the rest of the season.
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The problem I have with this whole saga involving our games against Mansfield is their complete knob of a chairman.
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Look, I know you have all had enough of us Mansfield fans on here by now and I do agree it's time to move on etc and although I have read lots of comments over the last few days, I intended not to leave any more comments myself - BUT H.Smith - don't be so ridiculous as to suggest that someone would edit the match video just to get Smith into trouble with the FA!! Were you actually at the game? Well I was sat right in line with the incident and let me tell you, he fair old walloped Speight as the video quite clearly shows and he was very fortunate not to have done him some real damage - if he had done that outside of the ground he would have been charged for assault - there's no place in football for that sort of behaviour - and yes, if it had been a Mansfield player I would be saying exactly the same - he wants punishing for what he did whether the ref saw it or not - and I notice that he did it from behind as well - really brave of him wasn't it? He should have apologised straight after the game for that but as he hasn't it tells you a lot about the sort of person he is. Maybe as Holdsworth says it was out of character for Smith to do that but nevertheless he should hang his head in shame.
Some of you lot have said some really sensible things over the last few days and I have really enjoyed reading your comments and I genuinely wish you well for the rest of the season.
Of course someone could be 'so stupid to edit the video' it is totally open to abuse. He made a totally valid point. As far as I know David Holdsworth is your manager and manages the team and has basically let it be, your chairman on the other hand has come steamrolling in on his personal crusade. It wasn't just this incident neither, he was already on one regarding Heathcote, whooope do he said a few things in a game, to mention it in programme notes takes it one step further. If he thinks Heathcotes a cock then what does he think of 5/6 other managers in this league ? I bet its boring buying your match programmes to hear blah blah blah every other week !
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SuperStags what i am saying is i would not trust anything on youtube,as i said in my post if it was an offical video thats another matter.As for the did he do it did he not,I take your word for it i was working and i have not bothered looking at youtube.I would be surprised if a youtube video stood up in a court of law for the reasons i stated earlier.When you were at Moss Lane i had a very nice chat with some of you fans in the bar,i thought you were all a real nice set of supporters and you added to the atmosthere of the game.I have nothing against you at all.
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What is the jump in the video just before the incident by the way?
Is that just shoddy editing?
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Yeah, we'll kick you about, getting 3 reds in 2 games with more deserved, have our manager tell your fans to f off and have our players square up to your fans, but lets just forget all about it and move on. And it's us that are "classless" is it?
When did our players square up to your fans??
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Maybe he shouldnt have talked it up as a grudge match, if he didnt want a grudge match.
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What is the jump in the video just before the incident by the way?
Is that just shoddy editing?
Shoddy.........or suspicious ?
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OK I am the FA panel :-
What do I see, I see a jump in the video just before the incident. I see Speight go down on the floor doing a merry jig just like your number 18 did in the first 3 minutes of the game. I see no Mansfield players appeal even the guy running in behind him with his arms up. I see the Mansfield react to the incident about 2 seconds later and then all sit down and do nothing.
As per my post above, what injuries did he receive, i bet you they must be bad from an incident like that?????
If you ask me it is edited plain and simple.
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Look, I know you have all had enough of us Mansfield fans on here by now and I do agree it's time to move on etc and although I have read lots of comments over the last few days, I intended not to leave any more comments myself - BUT H.Smith - don't be so ridiculous as to suggest that someone would edit the match video just to get Smith into trouble with the FA!! Were you actually at the game? Well I was sat right in line with the incident and let me tell you, he fair old walloped Speight as the video quite clearly shows and he was very fortunate not to have done him some real damage - if he had done that outside of the ground he would have been charged for assault - there's no place in football for that sort of behaviour - and yes, if it had been a Mansfield player I would be saying exactly the same - he wants punishing for what he did whether the ref saw it or not - and I notice that he did it from behind as well - really brave of him wasn't it? He should have apologised straight after the game for that but as he hasn't it tells you a lot about the sort of person he is. Maybe as Holdsworth says it was out of character for Smith to do that but nevertheless he should hang his head in shame.
Some of you lot have said some really sensible things over the last few days and I have really enjoyed reading your comments and I genuinely wish you well for the rest of the season.
How do you know he hasnt?
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AltyAnt - If he HAD apologised for it after the game then there would have been a mention of it somwhere surely? and to all you other Conspiracy Theorists on here - especially Jenga - I was there, bang in line with it and PLEASE take my word for it - he did it all right - like it or not. Jenga, one thing I am not is a liar - take it from me, he T**tted him alright and as for none of our players going bonkers about it - if you watch the video again they are all running back to the centre circle with their backs to the incident so won't have seen it.And I don't think the video was shot from the grassy knoll either taxi Phil!!!
H.Smith - I agree with you - I have no issues with your fans or your club - to be honest - the more time I spend reading your posts the more I like you lot!! And as I said on Saturday I think it was, I was quite impressed by your turn out at our place and also the way your team just didn't lay down and roll over when you went down to nine men at Moss Road. I also said how nice it was to sit in the stand at Moss Road with no segregation and not a bad word said - a credit to both clubs. :)
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OK I am the FA panel :-
What do I see, I see a jump in the video just before the incident. I see Speight go down on the floor doing a merry jig just like your number 18 did in the first 3 minutes of the game. I see no Mansfield players appeal even the guy running in behind him with his arms up. I see the Mansfield react to the incident about 2 seconds later and then all sit down and do nothing.
As per my post above, what injuries did he receive, i bet you they must be bad from an incident like that?????
If you ask me it is edited plain and simple.
I agree if it was so bad why didnt not one player appeal even the player getting elbowed it clearly wasnt bad has he made out he was up 2 seconds later
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Moss Lane mate, not Road. Too close to Maccs ground name.
Not being funny but Its not Field Hill, or Field Street is it?
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Apologies SW and to the rest of you - trying to do two things at once - never a good idea for a bloke is it!!!
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AltyAnt - If he HAD apologised for it after the game then there would have been a mention of it somwhere surely? and to all you other Conspiracy Theorists on here - especially Jenga - I was there, bang in line with it and PLEASE take my word for it - he did it all right - like it or not. Jenga, one thing I am not is a liar - take it from me, he T**tted him alright and as for none of our players going bonkers about it - if you watch the video again they are all running back to the centre circle with their backs to the incident so won't have seen it.And I don't think the video was shot from the grassy knoll either taxi Phil!!!
H.Smith - I agree with you - I have no issues with your fans or your club - to be honest - the more time I spend reading your posts the more I like you lot!! And as I said on Saturday I think it was, I was quite impressed by your turn out at our place and also the way your team just didn't lay down and roll over when you went down to nine men at Moss Road. I also said how nice it was to sit in the stand at Moss Road with no segregation and not a bad word said - a credit to both clubs. :)
I was there as well and i was right in line with the incident, believe me it is a fake, i am not a liar, he didnt T**T him. Easy to say isnt it. zzzzzzzzzzz
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AltyAnt - If he HAD apologised for it after the game then there would have been a mention of it somwhere surely? and to all you other Conspiracy Theorists on here - especially Jenga - I was there, bang in line with it and PLEASE take my word for it - he did it all right - like it or not. Jenga, one thing I am not is a liar - take it from me, he T**tted him alright and as for none of our players going bonkers about it - if you watch the video again they are all running back to the centre circle with their backs to the incident so won't have seen it.And I don't think the video was shot from the grassy knoll either taxi Phil!!!
H.Smith - I agree with you - I have no issues with your fans or your club - to be honest - the more time I spend reading your posts the more I like you lot!! And as I said on Saturday I think it was, I was quite impressed by your turn out at our place and also the way your team just didn't lay down and roll over when you went down to nine men at Moss Road. I also said how nice it was to sit in the stand at Moss Road with no segregation and not a bad word said - a credit to both clubs. :)
Not trying to be funny mate, but your chairman has got a bee in his bonnet about our club and it wouldnt surprise me if any apology from James Smith was hushed up by your chairman to make us appear all bad. If it was as bad as your making out, your manager wouldnt be brushing it under the carpet.
Not sure if I have missed it anyway, but has Speight himself said anything about the incident?
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Altyant - no not that I know of and I do read a fair bit of stuff about the club - no reasoning with Jenga is there? Look Jenga, I am probably wasting my time saying this but you will never come a cross a less biased fan than me i.e. I tell it as I see it whether it's for or against my team, so as much as you want to be sarcastic - I know what I saw and if you aren't adult enough to take it on the chin kid then there is nothing I can do. Shame though.
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I've avtually (finally) just watched it.
It doesn't look too clever does it?
Take away the understandable bias and wish to defend/support an Alty player to the hilt and maybe beyond but, as I said previously, if the roles had been reversed and based on that footage, we'd want the perpetrator hung drawn and quartered.
Most Alty fans are very reasonable people and I really would not wish to believe that any of us would try to defend such an action if ,as it seems, it could have actually happened whether anyone apologised or not or covered any apology up or not, some things have to be condemned
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Alty Tunnel Steward - I agree with you - and I do think that 99.9% of Alty fans are spot on - as I said in my post after the game at your place, I really enjoyed sitting in the stand with some of you - made such a change to having to be segregated all the time. And going to some away grounds in the BSP has been a breath of fresh air in my opinion - much more of a friendly atmosphere than leagues 1 and 2 and I 100% include Altrincham in that bracket too. In a bizarre way all this banter on here and the so called animosity between the two clubs has probably connected us !! You're now my second team in the BSP - and I even have a soft spot for Jenga!!!!!
What we ought to do is all meet up for a beer before the league game at our place!! And I am being serious!
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Not seen the video clip and not going to bother........ not at the game either, although I actually set off Saturday morning and then had second thoughts.
That said, has anyone wondered if James Smith (assuming there was some intent) was provoked ? Doesn't make it right, although when a great player like Zinedine Zidane does what he did in the World Cup, there is usually some form of severe provocation
From what I saw at close quarters at Moss Lane the Mansfield players were quite good at the wind-up....little digs here and there that the officials would never see....not that it would have mattered with that inept ref - he couldn't be bothered to caution any Mansfield players early doors and hence caused this whole nonsense......lots of shirt pulling, holding and use of thumbs etc - the type of stuff that happens in rugby scrums all the time and usually results in a mass brawl
Just wondered - that was all
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Mick - from what our manager said of Smith after the game - i.e. liked him and thought it was out of character for him to do that sort of thing - you do have to wonder if Speight had been having a go verbally as I saw nothing before it to think there was a problem between the two of them which made it even more of a surprise it even happened - even my 10 year old daughter jumped up and said "did you see that Dad" - having said that, Jenga will probably say she is a liar. My opinion of the game at your place was that there was a lot of stuff flying about from both sides? Makes you wonder how it all came to this doesn't it?
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Can anyone think of a past Altrincham player that could have been the king of the wind ups?
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Would there be a small clue in the wording of that question by any chance?
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Superstags please stop lieing ;D
That video is clearly a fake.
I think he actually tickled him in real life and it has been edited for the worse. What your daughter saw was two grown men have a bit of slap and tickle.
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Maybe he shouldnt have talked it up as a grudge match, if he didnt want a grudge match.
A grudge: isn't that where a Sooth Ifrican keeps his car?
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Jenga - I am now officially a bad parent - allowing my daughter to watch slap and tickle before the 9 pm watershed!!! Our home games are filmed by students from West Notts College so I can't say how neutral or not they are?
Sorry for lieing Jenga!! ;D
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I didn't actually look at the clip in case it had the used car salesman of a manager on it. I thought people were joking on here when they said it looks edited. Clearly not...
Question for Milnez....
Why does the video show 30 seconds of general match action?
Then miss 3-4 seconds out?
The 3-4 seconds that led up to the alledged elbow incident.
Then show another 60 seconds of match action?
I am intrigued to know why someone would take the time to remove that 3-4 seconds?
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What brasses me off is the fact we're not even allowed to send a representative to defend our own player, added to which Mansfield have not even had the courtesy to send Altrincham FC a copy of the "evidence"!
Trial by YouTube: a dangerous precedent is being set in my opinion.
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I didn't actually look at the clip in case it had the used car salesman of a manager on it. I thought people were joking on here when they said it looks edited. Clearly not...
Question for Milnez....
Why does the video show 30 seconds of general match action?
Then miss 3-4 seconds out?
The 3-4 seconds that led up to the alledged elbow incident.
Then show another 60 seconds of match action?
I am intrigued to know why someone would take the time to remove that 3-4 seconds?
I have nothing to do with the video. I just posted the link on here. The guy you want to be talking to is a poster on our forum. Feel free to register and I'm 100% he will explain the editing.
You can dress it up all you like but to try and say the video has been edited to make it look like he has been elbowed is hilarious. Did he cut Speight out of a previous shot and get Smith throwing his arm around from a previous shot and merge them together or something? ???
What brasses me off is the fact we're not even allowed to send a representative to defend our own player, added to which Mansfield have not even had the courtesy to send Altrincham FC a copy of the "evidence"!
Trial by YouTube: a dangerous precedent is being set in my opinion.
Don't be so naive in thinking that we submitted the video on youtube for the FA to look at. That was merely uploaded for everybody to see. Do you really think a big club like us would rely on some poxy online video service? ::)
If you had read the article in the opening post you would have realized that it was the referees assessor (from the FA) who said it should be sent into the FA to look at after he was shown it after the game. The video was uploaded on youtube on Sunday so your theory is void my friend.
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I didn't actually look at the clip in case it had the used car salesman of a manager on it. I thought people were joking on here when they said it looks edited. Clearly not...
Question for Milnez....
Why does the video show 30 seconds of general match action?
Then miss 3-4 seconds out?
The 3-4 seconds that led up to the alledged elbow incident.
Then show another 60 seconds of match action?
I am intrigued to know why someone would take the time to remove that 3-4 seconds?
I have nothing to do with the video. I just posted the link on here. The guy you want to be talking to is a poster on our forum. Feel free to register and I'm 100% he will explain the editing.
You can dress it up all you like but to try and say the video has been edited to make it look like he has been elbowed is hilarious. Did he cut Speight out of a previous shot and get Smith throwing his arm around from a previous shot and merge them together or something? ???
What brasses me off is the fact we're not even allowed to send a representative to defend our own player, added to which Mansfield have not even had the courtesy to send Altrincham FC a copy of the "evidence"!
Trial by YouTube: a dangerous precedent is being set in my opinion.
Don't be so naive in thinking that we submitted the video on youtube for the FA to look at. That was merely uploaded for everybody to see. Do you really think a big club like us would rely on some poxy online video service? ::)
If you had read the article in the opening post you would have realized that it was the referees assessor (from the FA) who said it should be sent into the FA to look at after he was shown it after the game. The video was uploaded on youtube on Sunday so your theory is void my friend.
One things for sure, cutting a few seconds of footage for no apparent reason in order to make the situation worse is a pretty sh*thouse trick. Par for the course like...
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I think a can of worms is being opened up similar to the Eduardo diving incident. If James Smith is going to be charged for that then I hope every player who gets caught committing a red card offence on camera, which the referee doesn't see, gets charged. But it not going to happen is it. I feel it is pick on the little club syndome again.
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This is no word of a lie.
I have asked a TV production company to look at the video and this is the reponse I have received.
"Hmmm, had a look. There are a few frames missing just before the incident. I can’t explain why that would be. This would leave suspicion of editing for whatever reason. Saying that the incident itself does seem to look real".
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Can we please, please, please say piss off to Mansfield the club and Mansfield fans. I have had quite enough of there pathetic whinging from before the first game until now. If being like them is what is required of a club to be in league two, then I really hope they get promoted this season and we never, in my lifetime, get promoted.
Of all the relegated clubs they are the worst, biggest wind up merchants I have come across (translated into Mansfieldese that is professional)
I suppose it is all that can be expected from a bunch of exmining scabs.
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This is no word of a lie.
I have asked a TV production company to look at the video and this is the reponse I have received.
"Hmmm, had a look. There are a few frames missing just before the incident. I can’t explain why that would be. This would leave suspicion of editing for whatever reason. Saying that the incident itself does seem to look real".
And the time lag between the end of the game, and the appearance of the edit on Sunday is palpable. I have to say that, if the FA try to ban Smith on this evidence, we should take the matter to law.
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This is no word of a lie.
I have asked a TV production company to look at the video and this is the reponse I have received.
"Hmmm, had a look. There are a few frames missing just before the incident. I can’t explain why that would be. This would leave suspicion of editing for whatever reason. Saying that the incident itself does seem to look real".
And the time lag between the end of the game, and the appearance of the edit on Sunday is palpable. I have to say that, if the FA try to ban Smith on this evidence, we should take the matter to law.
I also think it's incredible that James is not allowed to be represented at this hearing. Surely any individual subject to disciplinary action has the right to defend themselves?
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Assuming all this checks out I firmly believe that Mansfield should be hauled in front of the FA for brinigng the game into disrepute about making the complaint, allegations agaist the player and club and comments in their programme and the press.
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This is no word of a lie.
I have asked a TV production company to look at the video and this is the reponse I have received.
"Hmmm, had a look. There are a few frames missing just before the incident. I can’t explain why that would be. This would leave suspicion of editing for whatever reason. Saying that the incident itself does seem to look real".
Did you show them the clip? Or Did you the show it on Highlights, http://www.youtube.com/user/shawma1us#p/a/0/b9Gc5enkNco whe(8.50 to 8.60)
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If smith is cleared and there is even a wiff of skullduggery then it should be investigated fully.Should it be proven that its been doctored in any way shape or form then the FA must charge them with bringing the game into disrepute and throw them out of the FA cup
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This is no word of a lie.
I have asked a TV production company to look at the video and this is the reponse I have received.
"Hmmm, had a look. There are a few frames missing just before the incident. I can’t explain why that would be. This would leave suspicion of editing for whatever reason. Saying that the incident itself does seem to look real".
Did you show them the clip? Or Did you the show it on Highlights, http://www.youtube.com/user/shawma1us#p/a/0/b9Gc5enkNco whe(8.50 to 8.60)
I showed him the clip with the incident at 28 seconds.
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This is no word of a lie.
I have asked a TV production company to look at the video and this is the reponse I have received.
"Hmmm, had a look. There are a few frames missing just before the incident. I can’t explain why that would be. This would leave suspicion of editing for whatever reason. Saying that the incident itself does seem to look real".
Did you show them the clip? Or Did you the show it on Highlights, http://www.youtube.com/user/shawma1us#p/a/0/b9Gc5enkNco whe(8.50 to 8.60)
I showed him the clip with the incident at 28 seconds.
Yeah that's probably why then. It's a bit jumpy on the cut down version for some reason but on the full highlights there's no jumping on it at all.
The latest on the situation anyway..
http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/football/FA-case-brought-Smith-Stags-confirm/article-1466688-detail/article.html?
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This is no word of a lie.
I have asked a TV production company to look at the video and this is the reponse I have received.
"Hmmm, had a look. There are a few frames missing just before the incident. I can’t explain why that would be. This would leave suspicion of editing for whatever reason. Saying that the incident itself does seem to look real".
Did you show them the clip? Or Did you the show it on Highlights, http://www.youtube.com/user/shawma1us#p/a/0/b9Gc5enkNco whe(8.50 to 8.60)
I showed him the clip with the incident at 28 seconds.
Yeah, i think if you showed him the full highlights which i posted not long back, it might be a different story.
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Your chairman is going to become one of the most hated men in football history with the can of worms hes opened.Other clubs up and down the country are already concerned by what he's done in recent days.A baffling thing to do, that will clearly come back to haunted mansfield town.Every club in the league with its own camera crew will be waiting for the moment you trip yourselves up from this day forward.
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I also think it's incredible that James is not allowed to be represented at this hearing. Surely any individual subject to disciplinary action has the right to defend themselves?
'An FA disciplinary panel will decide Smith's fate today (Thursday) and Alty are bracing themselves for a three-match ban despite the dubious merits of trial by YouTube. Alty have not been sent a copy of the film that has been submitted [by Mansfield Town] and are not allowed to attend the hearing, though they have submitted a written response in defence of Smith. Heathcote cannot comment until after the verdict.'
Without going into the incident and whether Smithy T**tted him or was just trying to get past him and ignoring the fact it's not an official club/match video the above statement is absolutely incredible - it's not Guantanamo Bay ffs! - That goes against all principles of natural justice and human rights (guilty or not). - Nobody can be convicted of something without being able to answer the charge or defend themselves in person - it would be thrown out straightaway. I hope our written submission was something along the lines of 'we have no idea which incident you refer to and are unable to speak to you about it, throw it in the same bin as our appeal against the points deduction and tell that T**t Perry to wind his neck in, the dick!'
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Have to say that I'd be more than astounded if the FA even contemplated bringing a case based on UTube footage so there must somewhere have been a proper copy. All games at Conference Level and above have to be videoed. Both teams, The Referee and his assessor should get copies either on the day or shortly after.
This is quite telling "If you had read the article in the opening post you would have realized that it was the referees assessor (from the FA) who said it should be sent into the FA to look at after he was shown it after the game"
I understand our frustration but there have, this season alone been some very high profile players suspended after footage (edited by the way as MOTD don't show the whole match) has been seen - Adebayor and Huth spring immediately to mind. No amount of mud slinging and slagging off another Club and its fans is gonna make this go away even if it does give us some pleasure to do so.
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i hold my hands up if its an offical Video,but if not then the club has to do something to fight using unoffical videos for the reasons i stated earlier.If James Smith did do what was suggested then the club needs to fine him(and Chris Senior for that matter)as not only do they let themselves down they let the club down.Now why are the club not allowed to represent the player at any hearing?
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The odd thing about the incident is that after he goes down a couple of players go to the ref but only one Mansfield player goes over to see if he's ok and he walks away almost straight away. The guy gets no attention and when he gets up himself he makes no remonstrations to the ref himself.
It looks like Smith swings an elbow and the guy goes down as if it's got him straight in the face but the rest is very odd if that is the case. If I'd taken one in the chops I'd want a word or two......
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Doesn't matter how many times you watch it - he T**tted him, end of. And once again I will say, there aren't many of our players moaning about it as they are all running back to the half way line with their backs to the incident and therefore didn't see it.
I STILL can't believe that ANYONE is still saying it never happened - is it just because it's Mansfield? As we know most of you don't like us now but that's irrelevant - he T**tted him and if any of you would have been sat where I was sat then you would have seen it as plain as day.
I agree our Chairman will look back on his comments in the match day programme and learn from it - I agree we are a physical team at times - I agree that our scoreboard is a bit sh*tty but please don't tell me that Smith didn't T**t Speight.
He deserves a 3 match ban for it as would ANY player - If a Stags player had done it I would still be saying the same.
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Have to say that I'd be more than astounded if the FA even contemplated bringing a case based on UTube footage so there must somewhere have been a proper copy. All games at Conference Level and above have to be videoed. Both teams, The Referee and his assessor should get copies either on the day or shortly after.
This is quite telling "If you had read the article in the opening post you would have realized that it was the referees assessor (from the FA) who said it should be sent into the FA to look at after he was shown it after the game"
I understand our frustration but there have, this season alone been some very high profile players suspended after footage (edited by the way as MOTD don't show the whole match) has been seen - Adebayor and Huth spring immediately to mind. No amount of mud slinging and slagging off another Club and its fans is gonna make this go away even if it does give us some pleasure to do so.
You're missing the point somewhat Phil.Adebayor and Huth were shown the film and were allowed to represent themselves in person. If the FA aren't going to do it properly then they should forget it entirely.
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Ballers - for what it's worth I totally agree with you - he should have the right to represent himself - can't have one rule for one and one rule for another.
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I think this sets a very dangerous precedent and leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.
Obviously as an Alty fan I am angry with the decision, but surely any football fan would be troubled by this verdict given after a video clip of dubious quality.
On a more personal note, I hope Mansfields chairman and his cronies burn in hell for all eternity.
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Don't blame us - Smithy's fault - shouldn't have done it then should he? If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. I have no sympathy for ANY player who gets punished for doing what he did - it was just as bad as Huth the other weekend. Both a pair of gutless knobs
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Don't blame us - Smithy's fault - shouldn't have done it then should he? If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. I have no sympathy for ANY player who gets punished for doing what he did - it was just as bad as Huth the other weekend. Both a pair of gutless knobs
Huth came from behind his man, and punched him in a way that could have fractured his cheekbone. On a scale from one to ten I'd rate it a nine.
The Smith/Speight incident is more like handbags and rates a three. To compare the two incidents in this way is ludicrous !
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Don't blame us - Smithy's fault - shouldn't have done it then should he? If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. I have no sympathy for ANY player who gets punished for doing what he did - it was just as bad as Huth the other weekend. Both a pair of gutless knobs
A little strong SuperStag, but I have to agree with you on the time & crime line! I can't see how any fans who ever you support can say Smithy doesn't deserve everything that is coming to him, for his idiotic second of shame! He not only put shame on himself but tarnished our club especially after the other two red cards weeks before.
There is no place for a thug in today’s game fact! Or even on the street children watch football they follow the acts of people they admire who they put on a pedestal every week they come to the lane & cheer on the boys
Do we want this type of thug in our team or any team? If he had done the same act in the street and got caught on CCTV he would have been in court probably doing a community service order or time at the pleasure of her majesty..
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Have to say that I'd be more than astounded if the FA even contemplated bringing a case based on UTube footage so there must somewhere have been a proper copy. All games at Conference Level and above have to be videoed. Both teams, The Referee and his assessor should get copies either on the day or shortly after.
This is quite telling "If you had read the article in the opening post you would have realized that it was the referees assessor (from the FA) who said it should be sent into the FA to look at after he was shown it after the game"
I understand our frustration but there have, this season alone been some very high profile players suspended after footage (edited by the way as MOTD don't show the whole match) has been seen - Adebayor and Huth spring immediately to mind. No amount of mud slinging and slagging off another Club and its fans is gonna make this go away even if it does give us some pleasure to do so.
You're missing the point somewhat Phil.Adebayor and Huth were shown the film and were allowed to represent themselves in person. If the FA aren't going to do it properly then they should forget it entirely.
Point taken Gareth! Incidentally, assuming that the footage is (as it appears) legit, can you construct a defence for what he was alleged to have done?
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Don't blame us - Smithy's fault - shouldn't have done it then should he? If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. I have no sympathy for ANY player who gets punished for doing what he did - it was just as bad as Huth the other weekend. Both a pair of gutless knobs
A little strong SuperStag, but I have to agree with you on the time & crime line! I can't see how any fans who ever you support can say Smithy doesn't deserve everything that is coming to him, for his idiotic second of shame! He not only put shame on himself but tarnished our club especially after the other two red cards weeks before.
There is no place for a thug in today’s game fact! Or even on the street children watch football they follow the acts of people they admire who they put on a pedestal every week they come to the lane & cheer on the boys
Do we want this type of thug in our team or any team? If he had done the same act in the street and got caught on CCTV he would have been in court probably doing a community service order or time at the pleasure of her majesty..
The words out of character were used by the manager of mansfield. To label him a thug is harsh. As has been mentioned there could have been severe provocation from speight all through the game. And yeas, i do want James Smith in our team. He has been quality this season, just as he was last season. To want to oust someone on a moment of madness is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
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Have to say that I'd be more than astounded if the FA even contemplated bringing a case based on UTube footage so there must somewhere have been a proper copy. All games at Conference Level and above have to be videoed. Both teams, The Referee and his assessor should get copies either on the day or shortly after.This is quite telling "If you had read the article in the opening post you would have realized that it was the referees assessor (from the FA) who said it should be sent into the FA to look at after he was shown it after the game"
I understand our frustration but there have, this season alone been some very high profile players suspended after footage (edited by the way as MOTD don't show the whole match) has been seen - Adebayor and Huth spring immediately to mind. No amount of mud slinging and slagging off another Club and its fans is gonna make this go away even if it does give us some pleasure to do so.
You're missing the point somewhat Phil.Adebayor and Huth were shown the film and were allowed to represent themselves in person. If the FA aren't going to do it properly then they should forget it entirely.
Point taken Gareth! Incidentally, assuming that the footage is (as it appears) legit, can you construct a defence for what he was alleged to have done?
From my limited experience, and what I alluded to. It looks like Smithy is coming out and then the point of the attack switches to the right. Smithy then has to 'get across' his man to be in his defensive line. If Speight is being an awkward bugger and standing his ground then Smith has a right to say he has to try and get around him. It looks more like that than being stood next to him and drawing his elbow back and a straight elbow. That would be the case for the defence but it would probably fail to be honest when you see the tape, it looks pretty bad.
I'm not sure anything should be taken from footage not from the official video and I'm appalled that Smith hasn't been allowed to view the incident or represent himself in person.
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Why can't we appeal?
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JD Smithy cannot appeal or be represented for the simple reason that the FA belive they cannot do anything wrong and will always come up with the correct descision. So as their the outcome is certain to be correct there is no point in appeal or representation.
Unless of course anyone knows differently, as they say.
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In my opinion James Smith has been our stand out player this year and we will sorely him and Tom Kearney for 3 games
However Violent conduct is just that and it is dificult to argue that James Smith does not deserve a ban for the incident shown on U-Tube.
What I do fiind extremely disconcerting however - apart fom the questionabe FA regulations regarding representing yourself- is the way this incident has been communicated to the FA.
For example if a Mansfield player had also acted in a similar misguided manner in an unrelated incident in the same game - would both incidents have been passed on to the FA or would just the James smith incident been reported. Iwould suggest that either way Mansfield would not have risked a potential suspension of their player by submitting any video footage of incidents perpetrated by their own players.. (By the way I am not suggesting this did happen - but it could have!)
Without thinking too much (as usual) The FA seem to have manufactured a situation whereby the author of the video is effectively the person who decides what will or will not be reported, and if this person is remotely connected to either of the two teams then how can this be impartial.
Whist I believe that whist incident probably deserved the suspension given unfortunately it has given rise to a dangerous precedent which has potentially much wider consequences in football as alluded to by GH in his comments regarding the suspension.
At the end of the day its happened and nothing changes that (and the FA rarely change their minds) - so lets hope Alty put all this behind them and get back to playing like we know they can play football managed by a hugely committed Manager who wears his heart on his sleeve and if he was not managing us would probably be stood amongst us on th terraces cheering the team on
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The FA seem to have manufactured a situation whereby the author of the video is effectively the person who decides what will or will not be reported, and if this person is remotely connected to either of the two teams then how can this be impartial.
As someone who films matches in the same way and uploads the highlights online, let me comment on this.
For any Blue Square league match it is in the rules that full length copies of the match tape (usually a DVD) have to be provided (within 48 hours) to both clubs and to the referee's assessor. It has been known for the referee's assessor not to bother with his copy when the game has passed off without incident. It is also quite usual to receive a phone call from the club secretary asking for clarification of any specific incident in order to decide whether or not to launch and appeal - which now has to be done pretty much immediately due to new rules enforced. Likewise the away club can use the footage supplied by the home club to appeal too.
The match between Mansfield and Alty is an anomaly because, as far as I am aware, it is not in the rules of this stage of the competition that you must provide the away club with a copy of the game. Usually it is good manners to do so however. Likewise in the FA Trophy - in fact when York played Torquay United in the semi-final, Torquay refused to submit a video copy of the 1st leg to York so that York could use it in training for the 2nd leg. So you could say that while it might be seen as poor form by Mansfield they have not broken any rules.
The fact that the footage is on YouTube is irrelevant if it is from the Official tape, as it will be the official tape used by the FA to make any judgements regarding suspensions and other punishments.
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Which I think is one of the main misgivings Phil. I don't think anyone would defend Smithy on the basis that if he's smacked someone then he deserves what he gets. But if this footage is not from the official match video it should be disregarded.
After all, the referee, 2 assistants and 4th official haven't seen it. If it comes to light on the official video then fair enough. Otherwise, very strange.
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Which I think is one of the main misgivings Phil. I don't think anyone would defend Smithy on the basis that if he's smacked someone then he deserves what he gets. But if this footage is not from the official match video it should be disregarded.
After all, the referee, 2 assistants and 4th official haven't seen it. If it comes to light on the official video then fair enough. Otherwise, very strange.
Absolutely - if it's footage other than an officially accredited camera op then it is illegitimate.
However, I'll wager the "YouTube" issue might be a red herring - I put official YCFC footage on YouTube for supporters to watch and it most certainly can be used and has been used in appeals before. Not the YouTube clip though, the proper match copy.
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James smith gets what he should but on this video at http://www.youtube.com/user/shawma1us#p/a/0/b9Gc5enkNco
8.56 you see Spieght raise his hand to smith and its looks like Smith has tried to shrug him off but gone too far with his reply.
But on this one it is where it has been edited http://www.youtube.com/user/shawma1us#p/a/u/2/YCK-vsxfJOU
and the Spieght hand is not in question.
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But on this one it is where it has been edited http://www.youtube.com/user/shawma1us#p/a/u/2/YCK-vsxfJOU
and the Spieght hand is not in question.
I don't understand why it has been edited in that way and there is no way that will be the clip that the FA looked at.
They will have watched the proper match DVD in clearer quality, unedited.
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Brilliant spot Darren, I say we present it to the FA ;)
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Which bit of the FA will have based their decision on the unedited match DVD and NOT the UTube footage are we not getting here folk?
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3 Match ban totally deserved by nothing more than a act of a thug who thought he was above the law & would have got away with it but for the camera recording the game...
For the record I’m a Alty fan supported the team over 10 years. I use to post on the board under a different name, but with the abuse I received from many others & so called Alty fans you hounded me away! But now I’m back to have my say, agree, or disagree with posts on here... If anyone doesn't like that? Well only one thing you can do is!............
f**k OFF
i'm stayng put this time !
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James smith gets what he should but on this video at http://www.youtube.com/user/shawma1us#p/a/0/b9Gc5enkNco
8.56 you see Spieght raise his hand to smith and its looks like Smith has tried to shrug him off but gone too far with his reply.
But on this one it is where it has been edited http://www.youtube.com/user/shawma1us#p/a/u/2/YCK-vsxfJOU
and the Spieght hand is not in question.
Having just looked at both videos I cannot belive the injustice of this, the video has clearly been edited to put the worst possible light on the incident. If, as people are saying, the FA would have looked at the official video, it is clear that James was shrugging off the arm of Speight and it was not an unprovoked thuggish act as has been claimed. I undestand Graham's and the club's reluctance to get into a mud slinging match with Mansfield and move on, but this is appalling and should be challenged.
Mansfield, hang your heads in shame.
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3 Match ban totally deserved by nothing more than a act of a thug who thought he was above the law & would have got away with it but for the camera recording the game...
For the record I’m a Alty fan supported the team over 10 years. I use to post on the board under a different name, but with the abuse I received from many others & so called Alty fans you hounded me away! But now I’m back to have my say, agree, or disagree with posts on here... If anyone doesn't like that? Well only one thing you can do is!............
F**K OFF
i'm stayng put this time !
Ha ha!
Brilliant!
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3 Match ban totally deserved by nothing more than a act of a thug who thought he was above the law & would have got away with it but for the camera recording the game...
For the record I’m a Alty fan supported the team over 10 years. I use to post on the board under a different name, but with the abuse I received from many others & so called Alty fans you hounded me away! But now I’m back to have my say, agree, or disagree with posts on here... If anyone doesn't like that? Well only one thing you can do is!............
F*** OFF Edited to show the reason for ban
i'm stayng put this time !
Staying put for about 2 hours. Consider yourself removed from the forum. I seriously doubt you're an Alty fan.
If you are come and see me at a game and tell me different I'll let you back on if you moderate your aggression.
We already have one person that just posts against the manager and nothing else, we don't need another.
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And she thinks I'M aggressive ? One of us needs therapy, and I don't think it's me.
Are you going to remove one or six Nottinghamshire folk as well so we can return to normality ?
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3 Match ban totally deserved by nothing more than a act of a thug who thought he was above the law & would have got away with it but for the camera recording the game...
For the record I’m a Alty fan supported the team over 10 years. I use to post on the board under a different name, but with the abuse I received from many others & so called Alty fans you hounded me away! But now I’m back to have my say, agree, or disagree with posts on here... If anyone doesn't like that? Well only one thing you can do is!............
f**k OFF
i'm stayng put this time !
funniest thing i have read in ages- red card issued lmao- bloody thugs and bad language everywhere these days :)
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Ecky
Quite right too, I found her posts repulsive to the extent of making me want to BAARRFFF
Suggest she is permanently gagged, and if any new posts so much as look like hers - BANIM, or even BANNER.
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James smith gets what he should but on this video at http://www.youtube.com/user/shawma1us#p/a/0/b9Gc5enkNco
8.56 you see Spieght raise his hand to smith and its looks like Smith has tried to shrug him off but gone too far with his reply.
But on this one it is where it has been edited http://www.youtube.com/user/shawma1us#p/a/u/2/YCK-vsxfJOU
and the Spieght hand is not in question.
Having just looked at both videos I cannot belive the injustice of this, the video has clearly been edited to put the worst possible light on the incident. If, as people are saying, the FA would have looked at the official video, it is clear that James was shrugging off the arm of Speight and it was not an unprovoked thuggish act as has been claimed. I undestand Graham's and the club's reluctance to get into a mud slinging match with Mansfield and move on, but this is appalling and should be challenged.
Mansfield, hang your heads in shame.
We're not as sad to go round editing video's duck, just wake up and realise that he elbowed him the face.
Let's put this in perspective, i've just got in from a night down town... If I elbowed somebody in the face and he fell down really hurt I'd now be sat here worried that the police may come round to my house so why the hell should James Smith get away with this... Accept that your team have been a bunch of thugs and move on.
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James smith gets what he should but on this video at http://www.youtube.com/user/shawma1us#p/a/0/b9Gc5enkNco
8.56 you see Spieght raise his hand to smith and its looks like Smith has tried to shrug him off but gone too far with his reply.
But on this one it is where it has been edited http://www.youtube.com/user/shawma1us#p/a/u/2/YCK-vsxfJOU
and the Spieght hand is not in question.
Having just looked at both videos I cannot belive the injustice of this, the video has clearly been edited to put the worst possible light on the incident. If, as people are saying, the FA would have looked at the official video, it is clear that James was shrugging off the arm of Speight and it was not an unprovoked thuggish act as has been claimed. I undestand Graham's and the club's reluctance to get into a mud slinging match with Mansfield and move on, but this is appalling and should be challenged.
Mansfield, hang your heads in shame.
We're not as sad to go round editing video's duck, just wake up and realise that he elbowed him the face.
Let's put this in perspective, i've just got in from a night down town... If I elbowed somebody in the face and he fell down really hurt I'd now be sat here worried that the police may come round to my house so why the hell should James Smith get away with this... Accept that your team have been a bunch of thugs and move on.
Are you still here? We've heard enough now. You're not welcome here anymore. If you change your chairman and manager please feel free to reapply.
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I have very serious concerns if the FA have convicted someone on the bases of evidence from a video recording that has been edited so the full pictue of what happened is distorted. If this is the case I believe that the club should take the FA, Mansfield and whoever did the editing to court. This is blatant cheating and perverting the course of justice. I disagree with the editorial in today's NLP. Use of personal video's is open to abuse. Also how often do we see matches on TV where from one angle an offence looks to have been commited and another camera angle shows otherwise?
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I think that have said a few times that the clip on Youtube was not the one sent to the FA. The clip on youtube was just posted to make us look worse. I can't believe this is still being debated, we have to move on.