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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: markecky on May 07, 2008, 01:48:13 PM
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Things could be looking bleak for the Shaymen. They have until May 10th to be out of admin to clear the Conference first hurdle....now the meeting has been adjourned until Friday May 9th. Time was tight before...its tighter now.
Sad for the decent Halifax fans..but the offer was derisory in my opinion.
"THE future of Halifax Town is hanging by a thread after a meeting of its creditors was adjourned.
Without the adjournment a proposal to pay 2.5p in the pound for all debts would have failed and the club would have been liquidated.
The consortium wanting to take control of the club are now being asked to up their offer to 10p and administrator Rob Sadler warned there were no guarantees.
It would mean businessmen David Bosomworth, Bobby Ham and Stuart Peacock would have spent £800,000 to take control of the club and a commitment to fund ongoing losses running at up to £30,000 a month.
Only a handful of creditors turned up personally to the creditors' meeting held at the Shay in the Weaver's restaurant.
It was adjourned until 10 am on Friday to the Leeds offices of administrators Begbies Traynor."
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I've got every faith that they'll be OK.
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I'm not so sure.
They were apparently confident it would go through at 2.5p.
I appreciate it makes sense for them to go in at their lowest offer but they now have to find 4 times the cash in 2 days.
It may also not be physically possible to complete the legal side to come out of admin so quickly. We'll see...
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The businessmen concerned seem to be experts at brinksmanship and I see this as nothing more than another good example of it.
I will be very surprised indeed if they're not OK by the deadline - it probably just means that they were trying one last time to save the extra money they've now got to pay towards the team next year.
There's nothing I'd love more than for us to stay up - but it's not going to happen again.
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I don't see why we should feel guilty for wanting Alty to be given another reprieve.... as has been said before, if Halifax are removed from the Conference it is of their own doing.
Also, I don't think the fact we have got out of jail two years previously will have any impact on the decision-makers tbh...
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Its more about the timescale though rather than the agreement .... oh and then they have to prove the ground is being improved and that has also been delayed due to the knock on effect of this.
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They've got no chance.
Its a shame for the fans. I can understand why they see as callous but f**k it, I dont support them, Alty comes first, or 21st, in our case most years!
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I think a precedent was set when Scarborough thought they had sorted everything out but then got kicked out anyway. Therefore, even if Halifax were to ahcieve the impossible and get everything sorted on Friday I don't think it would make any difference.
It would not be a cause for celebration but certainly a reason to feel a bit more cheerful f you're an Alty fan. Let's wait and see.....
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not a case of IF with me, its WHEN
up the alty
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When we stayed up after the points deduction, I celebrated that because it was justice for the ridiculous decision.
Last year I was pleased but did not celebrate, same will happen this year if we get it again.
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might i remind you we should have been celebrating since 26th April, we should of stayed up, should of beaten weymouth- with that performance, cant stress enough the immense belief the fans AND the players had.
we do not deserve to go down- simple fact that Halifax entered administration and that halifax lost, we were another 2 minutes from winning that game, but it just didnt go our way just like last game of season last season.
and another thing i want to know is why it was 10 points and not 15 points off Halifax, that a non-league rule for administration
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The deduction is something that gets me cos going into Admin must tie in with not being within the wage budget so therefore 13pts ?...
I'll get some straws ... !!!
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I think 10 points is still the penalty. Leeds cynically went into admin and were punished with a further 15 point penalty at the start of this season.
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Talk to the average man on the street and Alty used to be known as a decent team in the 80's with a good cup pedigree.
Sadly these days Alty are known as ‘whose going to save you this time’.
I feel uncomfortable at the moment with this ‘eagerness’ regarding Halifax Town and their financial difficulties.
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gaz sort it out, attack another alty fan for asking a question... PLEASE halifax draw the short straw!!
sarcasm doesnt suit you
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Sorry you lost me on this one ...
I was saying that it should be 13pts, thus meaning we'd be safe and thereforee my statement was myself 'clutching at straws'...
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The deduction is something that gets me cos going into Admin must tie in with not being within the wage budget so therefore 13pts ?...
I'll get some straws ... !!!
were u actually being serious in this post, if u were my mistake, but it seemed weird that you said about the 13 points-after i mentioned 10 points for Halifax, and then saying u will get the straws- for whoever pulls the short straw analogy...
i just wanted to know why it was 10, not 15- but SW answered it in a civil fashion
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I was being serious hence why put 'The deduction is something that gets me cos ....'
Its 10pts for going into admin and also 3pt for breaking the wage cap, if you look at Crawley... So therefore 13pts and thus meaning we'd be safe ?
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sorry lad, saw it as sarcastic and a bit demeening, nevermind
so cant that be put forward ?
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I suppose you have to prove its the wages that were meaning overspending and not 'other costs' that the club may have been incurring .. I myself think its a valid point but I could be a little biased on the subject ... he he
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Talk to the average man on the street and Alty used to be known as a decent team in the 80's with a good cup pedigree.
Sadly these days Alty are known as ‘whose going to save you this time’.
I feel uncomfortable at the moment with this ‘eagerness’ regarding Halifax Town and their financial difficulties.
Yeh, I quite agree in some ways.
Re Halifax, I still think it will be sorted and I don't know why but the fact that we're the ones who could be reprieved again could count against us.
As I understand it, the May 10th deadline was a conference one, so that could easily be extended, there's afull month til the agm.
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Its more about the timescale though rather than the agreement .... oh and then they have to prove the ground is being improved and that has also been delayed due to the knock on effect of this.
Halifax fan here! We are in abit of a mess right now. In terms of sorting things out by the deadline we are in a tight situation. However we do not have to prove that the east stand has to be finished. Plans and contracts have now gone through and regardless of our status next season the ground will be completed next year. This is definately been put through as the rugby club are on the verge of reentering the superleague. Work is due to commence this summer as the Council owns the stadium. So this does not hamper us in anyway shape or form. Unfortunately if the Inland Revenue rejects the 10p in the £ you will gain another reprieve as Halifax Town will cease to exist as of 12 o'clock friday.
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I think 10 points is still the penalty. Leeds cynically went into admin and were punished with a further 15 point penalty at the start of this season.
An extra 15 points was added on top as they didn't agree to entering the CVA. Halifax did this so therefore the penalty will stay at 10 points. Thats why Leeds toatl penalty was -25 points. 10 for administration and then 15 the following year as they didn't agree the CVA during th summer. Final point to pick out, Wages were not higher than any of the top teams. One of the fans asked Angie firth about contract situations and we are no way near paying as much as the top teams in terms of wages.
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I presume also that the consortium would need to find the 10p in the £1.00. Wouldn't the inland revenue accept 10p in the £1.00 because it was them who proposed it?
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I presume also that the consortium would need to find the 10p in the £1.00. Wouldn't the inland revenue accept 10p in the £1.00 because it was them who proposed it?
I don't know. It's alot of money and I sound big headed and optomistic, however I think the consortium would be able to pay it off. Over the last few months they have been forward planning interviewing for new staff to help promote and run the club. This was all looking rather good and things looked in place until the shareholders decided they were unwilling to sell the club for the price offered. It annoys me as the club is bleeding money and needs the right people in place to help us balance things out. This is why we are in our current situation. We needed to sell cheaply so that we would have more to try and reorganise the club so we could begin turning a profit. If we stay up the money spent keeping us afloat will definately affect our situation over the next few years as we would have less than we expected to help reshuffle and start from scratch. Its an awful mess if you ask me. I wish we were in your financial situation. I can understand why you as fans are quite aggrieved.
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But the extra money will maybe hinder the on-going ground developments ?
Can I say you shouldn't be paying as much as 'other' teams and more to what you can with getting 1,500(ish) home fans so that argument means nothing i'm afraid. We could pay double what we do now and be nowhere near the top teams but doesn't make it right ?
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Here it is alty fans.... from someone who was there...
I was at the shareholders meeting this afternoon and the current position is as follows
The propsal to pay 2.5p in the pound has been rejected
HM Revenue & Customs did this,they automatically reject any CVA unless it is payment in full. Problem here is according to HMRC the amount they are owed is in excess of 25% of the total debt therefore what ever anybody else agrees the shaymen will go out of business at 1200 on Friday.
There is a small chink of light here as the administrator thinks HMRC have got their figures wrong and the their debt is under 25% the administrator is awaiting a call from then with the correct figure.
If the above hurdle is overcome and HMRC's share is less than 25% then provided all the other creditors agree on the latest amendment to the CVA town could still be safe. This latest amendment proposed at this mornings meeting asks for a minimum of 10p in the pound to be paid.
If the consortium are willing to stump up the extra cash then the administrator has to pay it all out by Saturday. If they don't then town go out of business at 1200 on Friday
I understand that although everything won't actually meet the conference deadline the adminstrator seems to think the Conference and the FA will use common sense and town won't be relegated. However this is dependent on town getting over hurdles one and two. We'll all know on Friday one way or another.
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I understand that although everything won't actually meet the conference deadline the adminstrator seems to think the Conference and the FA will use common sense and town won't be relegated. However this is dependent on town getting over hurdles one and two. We'll all know on Friday one way or another.
the adminstrator er would that be Rob Sadler of Begbies Traynor fame who was involved in Crawley? ::)
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I understand that although everything won't actually meet the conference deadline the adminstrator seems to think the Conference and the FA will use common sense and town won't be relegated. However this is dependent on town getting over hurdles one and two. We'll all know on Friday one way or another.
Why exactly does the administrator think the Conference and FA will make an exception for Halifax? Common sense has never been a factor in their decision making, I don't see why they will start now?
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yeah, i dont see how the fact that we have been reprieved two years in a row, should that take away the fact that Halifax have done major damage to themselves ?- they owe High Schools money for gods sake, and a charity....
i am just quoting past alty fans saying- we have done no wrong, we are both a football club and a business, finance comes into it, and as we handle ours well we aren't in administration and been deducted 10 points.
How I see it Halifax Town FC have shot themself in the foot, without actually having a foot of their own to shoot
i love alty, whatever happens i will stick by them through and through
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God forbid another club going bust but think of the positives. God chance second administration you could be relegated yo Unibond anyway.
If you went bust all debts cleared all stiupid contracts void (remember Steve Bushall saying he couldnt believe the full time offer he got).
Start again maybe Unibond one, the council need a foootball club at their stadium just having Rugby cant justify it. Mignt take 3-4 seasons get back to Blue Square but it would be debt free. A look at the Halifax forum is even if this is sorted their losses every month means it probably happen again in a few years, hopefully the new club would be stronger. All the best Fax
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I think they will just run out of time to sort things, this is worrying though..
HM Revenue & Customs did this,they automatically reject any CVA unless it is payment in full. Problem here is according to HMRC the amount they are owed is in excess of 25% of the total debt therefore what ever anybody else agrees the shaymen will go out of business at 1200 on Friday.
There is a small chink of light here as the administrator thinks HMRC have got their figures wrong and the their debt is under 25% the administrator is awaiting a call from then with the correct figure.
Why can't Halifax or the administrator work out who's owed what and what percentages, I just find it quite strange that HMRC say they are owed more than 25% of the debt and from that paragragh they have been told to work it out again and they are now waiting to here of HMRC if they were correct ??? Shouldn't they be telling HMRC how much they owe and what percentage of the CVA it is...
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Good point.
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erm correct me if i am wrong, but looking at the post 'Halifax full debt' i looked up HM Revenue and Customs, worked it out, and the calc is
£485,671.64 x 100 = 24.2%
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£2,007,846.50
so if Halifax couldnt work that out.... should they be a fully functional business/club :S
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Whatever happens sincere good luck Halifax and their supporters. We may be facing relegation but oblivion is off the scale. I personally hope they work something out even if it isn't at our expense.
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erm correct me if i am wrong, but looking at the post 'Halifax full debt' i looked up HM Revenue and Customs, worked it out, and the calc is
£485,671.64 x 100 = 24.2%
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£2,007,846.50
so if Halifax couldnt work that out.... should they be a fully functional business/club :S
I'm presuming HMRC are disputing the amount they are owed (possibly interest?? no idea) or they are unsure on whether all of the 2mil are valid debts. Im sure it wont be a simple mathematical error
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Here it is alty fans.... from someone who was there...
I was at the shareholders meeting this afternoon and the current position is as follows
The propsal to pay 2.5p in the pound has been rejected
HM Revenue & Customs did this,they automatically reject any CVA unless it is payment in full. Problem here is according to HMRC the amount they are owed is in excess of 25% of the total debt therefore what ever anybody else agrees the shaymen will go out of business at 1200 on Friday.
There is a small chink of light here as the administrator thinks HMRC have got their figures wrong and the their debt is under 25% the administrator is awaiting a call from then with the correct figure.
If the above hurdle is overcome and HMRC's share is less than 25% then provided all the other creditors agree on the latest amendment to the CVA town could still be safe. This latest amendment proposed at this mornings meeting asks for a minimum of 10p in the pound to be paid.
If the consortium are willing to stump up the extra cash then the administrator has to pay it all out by Saturday. If they don't then town go out of business at 1200 on Friday
I understand that although everything won't actually meet the conference deadline the adminstrator seems to think the Conference and the FA will use common sense and town won't be relegated. However this is dependent on town getting over hurdles one and two. We'll all know on Friday one way or another.
Thanks for the info and honesty here.
I have to say that if some Alty fans say they wont celebrate a reprieve i'm not one of them. I wont celebrate Halifax going bump though. Its a sad reflection on this league. Wtih a change of name the league took on a chane of emphasis. Now, instead of clubs killing themselves off to get out of the conference we'll have clubs killing themselves off to stay in the BSP. Very sad indeed!
I apologise in advance for my anticipation. Im just being honest!
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Agreed..thanks for the balanced view mate.
However you mention Conference, FA and common sense in the same sentence. I give you the largest ever points deduction in Engilsh football history because a player from Accrington didn't have clearance he could have got in a week.
I stick with the Scarbororough theory. If you cross the conference board, its hard to comeback from it.
Scarborough went to the AGM full of confidence that had done all that was asked of them and they went.
Its going to be a tough few days.
You'll never agree I'm sure, but I wouldn't mind betting a new reformed Halifax would come back bigger and stronger than ever if it came to that.
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You'll never agree I'm sure, but I wouldn't mind betting a new reformed Halifax would come back bigger and stronger than ever if it came to that.
Aldershot have shown it can be done.
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You'll never agree I'm sure, but I wouldn't mind betting a new reformed Halifax would come back bigger and stronger than ever if it came to that.
Aldershot have shown it can be done.
Wouldnt an AFC Halifax club be in a similar position because they would have a stadium waiting for them? I presume they could use the stadium? I have to say that if this is the case, it could be the best thing. I know this is easy to say when you dont have 5 years of re-building in non-league oblivion to look forward to.
Good luck to both of us. Here's to AFC Halifax ;)
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This smacks a tinyt bit of Crawley saying it was an administrative problem, they were ready to pay they were just waiting for the HMRC to let them know how much they owe.
I assume the 24.2% done from the sum is out of date and there is another months worth of tax or interest due taking it to 25.3% or something in which case would it be possible to pay the HMRC maybe 2% to be sure of bring it down to around 23% and presto?
Whatever, good luck to halifax....the worst will probably be Unibond 1 not county football like Aldershot and AFCW with their ground.
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hi there HTFC fan here, in response to,
"Wouldnt an AFC Halifax club be in a similar position because they would have a stadium waiting for them? I presume they could use the stadium? I have to say that if this is the case, it could be the best thing. I know this is easy to say when you dont have 5 years of re-building in non-league oblivion to look forward to.
Good luck to both of us. Here's to AFC Halifax "
we already have one!!!
http://www1.freewebs.com/afchalifax/
i dont know much about the ongoing situation, just that it is of course a real nail biter
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I assume the 24.2% done from the sum is out of date and there is another months worth of tax or interest due taking it to 25.3% or something in which case would it be possible to pay the HMRC maybe 2% to be sure of bring it down to around 23% and presto
At this stage you are not able (unless a creditor of preference, which HMRC are not) to pay a sum to one creditor and not pro rata to all
The % was so colse to 25% so I guess the cliam has increased due to interest etc but either way must be very tight as to if they do manage to get through this
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There is also the distinct possibility that other creditors have taken the HMRC stance and reject all offers other than full payment.
I just cant see HMRC being the only one. Even if it is 24% what are the chances of the other 76% being happy with 10% of what is owed. For some that could still mean no food on the table for their family. 10p in the pound is improved but still derisory to some.