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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: baldrick on April 30, 2008, 07:04:19 AM
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Halifax Town creditors: Full list of who is owed money by the club, and how much
Armstrong Watson, Victoria Place, Carlisle, £1,350;
All-Glass, Ripponden Mill, Mill Fold, Ripponden, £165;
Arrowmax Structures Ltd, c/o DLA, Fountain PrecincADVERTISEMENTt, Balm Green, Sheffield, £4,952.61;
Bradford MDC, Sports and Leisure Service, Aireworth Road, Keighley, £2,551.99;
Bear 21, c/o Davenham Trade Finance Ltd, PO Box 765, 8, St John Street, Manchester, £53.32;
Mr R. Bland, Brow Cottage, Clay House Lane, Greetland, £17,750;
B and S Coaches, Rochdale Road, Walsden, Todmorden, £1,875;
Belvec Ltd, The Weavers/Shay Banqueting, Shay Stadium, Halifax, £770.16;
B. Fielding Associates, New Road, Halifax, £1,000;
Brentwood Market, Unit R5, Tenterfield Business Park, Halifax, nil; Brighouse High School, Finkil Street, Brighouse, £173.51;
British Telecom, BT Business Division, PP 9A Telecom House, 35, Lisbon Street, Leeds, £784.26;
Dr R.T. Brown, Landemere Syke, Northowram, Halifax, £1,963.28; BUPA Hospital, Staines, Middlesex, £3,265.90;
BMW Financial Services (GB) Ltd, Europa House, Bartley Way, Hook, Hampshire, £12,125.69;
Julia Brierley, Free School Lane, Halifax £900;
Bobby Barr, Highroad Well Lane, Halifax, Nil;
Coach Options, 768, Manchester Road, Castleton, Rochdale, £5,690;
Calderdale MBC, Chief Finance Officer, Princess Buildings, Halifax, £517;
Computec, Unit 14, Moorlands Business Centre, Balme Road, Cleckheaton, £176.25;
Mr D. Cairns, 23, Nelson Street, Sowerby Bridge, Halifax, £9,338;
Calder Cabins, Unit 8, High Level Way Industrial Estate, Queens Road, Halifax, £3,145.49;
Calderdale Council, Director of Finance, Princess Buildings, Halifax, £587.11;
City Graphics (BFD), 200, Pasture Lane, Clayton, Bradford, £500;
Comcen Computer Supplies Ltd, Bruce Road, Swansea Industrial Estate, Swansea, £235.
Ms D. Clayton Smith, Hollybank Road, Lindley, Huddersfield, £825;
Russell Church-Kenningham, Green End, Clayton, Bradford, £137;
D. Cairns, Keswick Close, Siddal, Halifax £2,000;
DM Posters, Balmoral Drive, Hindley, Wigan, £564;
Dunn-Line Holdings Ltd, The Coach Station, Park Lane, Basford, £2,810;
Ian Entwistle, Millmoor House, 45a Colders Lane, Meltham, £220;
Fraser Eagle Coaching, Pendle Court, 4, Mead Way, Burnley, £3,875;
Fit 4 Sport, Unit 2, Millking Green, Hartshead Street, Lees, Oldham, £352.27;
Mrs A. Firth, High Lane, Norton Tower, Halifax, £2,932.47;
Fat Cat Trading Company, Albert Street, Hebden Bridge, £169.20;
Football Association, 25, Soho Square, London, Nil; Roy Ford, 49, Jepson Lane, Elland, £1,200;
Football Trust, 25, Soho Square, London, £56,000;
Geoff Ralph Association, Clare Road, Halifax, £27,108.75;
HT Direct Limited, Beetham, Water Hill Lane, Warley, £564;
HM Revenue and Customs, Durrington Bridge House, Barrington Road, Worthing, West Sussex, £242,613.64;
Mr R. Ham, Cotes Garth, Wombleton, York, £20,000;
Mr A. Hall, 21, Riverdale Court, Salterhebble, Halifax, £17,601.00;
Mr R. Harrison, 7, Cliffe Cottage, Cliffe Hill Lane, Warley, Halifax, £18,096;
Halifax PLC, Trinity Road, Halifax, £916.75;
Hipperholme and Lightcliffe, Stoney Lane, Lightcliffe, £4,944.33;
HM Revenue and Customs, Durrington Bridge House, Barrington Road, Worthing, £243,058;
Hall Decorating and Painting , Turner Court Works, Hall Street North, Boothtown, £414;
Janice and Richard Holden, 88, Alban's Road, Halifax, £300;
R. Holmes 13, West Place, Wimbledon Common, London, £15,000;
A Hall, Parish Lea, Gibraltar Road, Halifax, £2,000;
Intrak Sound and Light, 6, Delany Drive, Freckleton, Preston, £5,640;
Mr P. Jewitt, EMS Ltd, 2, Church Street, Dewsbury, £3,966;
Jacamast Ltd, Colne Bridge Works, Bradley, Huddersfield, £193,034.31;
J. Eastwood and Son, The Warehouse, Lower Lister Lane, Halifax, £23.50:
J. Nixon and Co, Head Office, Water Street, Newcastle upon Tyne, £2,136.36;
Keele University, The Income Office, Finance Department, Keele, £2,548.29;
Kirkdale Laundry Services, 526, Gibbet Street, Highroad Well, Halifax, £464;
Keller Engineering, Thorpe Arch Estate, Wetherby, £5,522.50;
Loomis UK Ltd, 5th Floor, City Gate East, Tollhouse, Nottingham, £230.39;
Lupton Fawcett Solicitors, Yorkshire House, Greek Street, Leeds, £500;
Lloyds TSB Bank, Commercial Street, Halifax, £75,417;
Ian Maclennan, The Consulting Rooms, 23, Anson Road, Manchester, £190;
Mr R. Moreland, Hornbeam House, Langford, Market Drayton, Shropshire, £7,203;
Metro Sports, Metnor House, Mylord Crescent, Killingworth, Newcastle upon Tyne £338.40;
Milans Wine Bar Hotel, 6-8, Carlton Place, Halifax, £176.25;
Mel Green Construction, Parkfield Garage, George Street, Elland, £262.35;
Nations Healthcare Ltd, Park Road, Eccleshill, £293.75;
National Insurance Fund, Redundancy Payments Office, Ladywell House, Ladywell Road, Edinburgh, £47,160;
Network Lifts, Kirkfield Industrial Estate, Kirk Lane, Yeadon £11,850.60;
Online Computer Supplies Ltd, c/o Royal Bank of Scotland, Smith House, PO Box 50, Elmwood Avenue, Feltham, Middlesex, £206.80;
Petron Design Ltd, Webster Mills, Webster Street, Dewsbury, £70.50;
Mr S. Peacock, Caterleisure Ltd, 197-199, Main Street, Wilsden, Bradford, £60,763;
J. Pugh Lewis, Pilsley, Chesterfield, Derbyshire, £1,086;
PPP Healthcare, Philips House, Crescent Road, Tunbridge Wells, £97.68;
Premier Sports Medicals, York House, Grimsdyke Road, Middlesex, £365.06;
Printability 2000 Ltd, Concept House, Westwick Park, Broombank Road, Chestefield, £9,205;
Mr G. Ralph, Yarborough Croft, Northowram, Halifax, £340,000;
Rastrick High School, Field Top Road, Rastrick, Brighouse, £2,820;
Rayroy Products (Slapton)Ltd, Unit 1, Hillcroft Works, Stewkley, Soulbury, Leyton Buzzard, £312.08;
Reydon Sports Plc, Unit 17, Easter Park, Nottingham, £258.54;
R.M. Barnett Ltd, The Barn, Towngate, Hepworth, Huddersfield, £195,921;
Radcliffe Plant Hire, Queens Square, Leeds Road, Huddersfield, £269;
Michael Riley, c/o Wilkinson Woodward, 11, Fountain Street, Halifax, Nil;
Mr R. J. Crabtree, Broadwood, Cragg Vale, £22,000;
SW Business Services 15/17, Carlton Street, Halifax, £53.06;
Spencer Wilson and Co, 15/17, Carlton Street, Halifax, £5,547.18;
Shay Stadium Trust Ltd, Shay Stadium, Halifax, £14,100;
Sarah Scott, c/o Gary Kirwan, The Chartered Society of Physios, 14, Bedford Row, London, Nil;
Mr S. J. Shaw, consultant orthopaedic surgeon, 7, Moor Park Avenue, Preston, £740;
Scottish and Newcastle Retail Ltd, Riverside House, Riverside Way, Northampton, £432.60;
Security Services, £546.55;
Sportskit Pro Soccer, Unit 7, Airfield Way, Christchurch, Dorset, £537;
St John Ambulance, South and West Yorkshire, Healey Road, Ossett, Wakefield, £1,316.
Studd Menswear, 10, Old Hall Street, Middleton, Greater Manchester, £146;
Smith and Curry, £9,794;
T-Moile UK, PO Box 719, Camberley, Surrey, £226.27;
3A Building Supplies, Link Business Park, Knowle Lane, Huddersfield, £174;
Team Premier Ltd, Team Premier House, Unit 11 Metro Centre, Ronsons Way, St Albans, £742.32;
The Design Sauce Ltd, Trinity House, Robbey Close, Linby, Nottingham, Nil;
The Sports Cabin, Westgate, Halifax, £1,086.90;
The West Yorkshire Physiotherapy and Sports Injury Centre, The Old School House, Towngate, Wyke, £340;
The Yorkshire Clinic, Bradford Road, Bingley, £985,14;
TM Newburn Power Rental Services, PO Box 224, Halifax, £264.37;
Trimillin UK Ltd, Unit 16, St James Industrial Estate, Westhampton Road, West Sussex, £292.55;
Trinity Insurance Advisors Ltd, Trinity House, Harrison Road, Halifax, £1,299.59;
Turnstile Service 2000 Ltd, Swan House, Bonds Mill Estate, Stonehouse, Gloucestershire, £1,815.30;
Tarmac Precast Concrete Ltd, Tallington Factory, Tallington, Stamford, Lincs, £30,820.45;
The Harris Partnership, Project Manager, 24, St Johns North, Wakefield, £4,894;
D.C. Tait, Yew Mount, 196, Halifax Road, Brighouse, £42,000;
UK Sports Products Ltd, 8, Newham Road, Bedford, £214.53;
Vision Colour Print, Adwalton Business Park, 132, Wakefield Road, Drighlington, £6,341;
Village Press, The Nook, Sowerby Bridge, £72;
Wilkinson Woodward Solicitors, 11, Fountain Street, Halifax, £881.25;
West Yorkshire Police Authority, Finance Department, Laburnum Road, Wakefield, £4,468.34;
Wakefield MRI Centre, Aberford Road, Wakefield, £310;
West Riding Organics, 147, Brights Building, New Mill Road, Honley, Holmfirth, £381.88;
West Yorkshire Metro Ambulance, Threelands, Bradford Road, Birkenshaw, Bradford, £381.88;
Walker May, The Stone Yard, Bedford Street North, Halifax, £765;
White Young Green, Regatta House, Clippers Quay Salford Quays, Manchester, £25,000;
Mr A. Watson, Hill Top Mount, Leeds £725;
Westgrove Street PI and C, 3, Clare Road, Halifax, £30,000;
Anne and Peter Wood, Lindrick Way, Bradshaw, Halifax, £300;
David Wills, c/o James Chapman and Co, 76, King Street, Manchester, Nil;
Mr R. F. Walker, Stoneleigh Barn, Brighouse and Denholme Gate Road, Shelf, £42,000;
W and D Properties Ltd, 5, Yarborough Croft, Northowram, Halifax, £34,000;
Xara Sportswear Ltd, Suite F, Riverview House, Frairton Road, Perth, £19,739.82;
Zurich, Froomsgate House, 1, Rupert Street, Bristol, £213.85.
Total £2,007,846.50.
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I think they'll probably survive short term, but for the life of me I can't see where they are going to get any investment at all in the future. It might make sense for them just to call it a day and start again aka Scarboro and Telford.
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Just a few to pay off then .............. Jesus!!! And still they crack on hey!!
Just seeing that makes you realise the foundations we have as a club!! Thank god their are people out there that understand the meaning of running a club/business!!
Sorry but no sympathy!!! Deserve everything that happens to them .......... and thats nothing to do with our potential gain!! Think of the people they owe!! f**king joke !!
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The parallels with Scarborough are frightening. For me, the real issue here is how much longer Halifax can stay in business at all, let alone stay in the Blue Square Premier. Putting aside our vested interest in the situation, I genuinely wish clubs would sit up and take note of what is happening year after year. How many more clubs have to go to the wall before people start living within their means again? It's absolutely ridiculous!
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The biggest worry for Halifax as i have said before is the £445.000 to the tax man even if the others accept the two and a half pence in the pound payoff i cannot see inland revenue accepting that.Also if Halifax cleard their debts losing £30,000 per month that would continue so it would be back to square one inless something was to alter.
That said without Halifax we would have hardly any players
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What strikes me is the number of companies they owe 500-5000 quid.
They clearly decided they needed stuff like new signs and work done and thought 'well we'll just get an invoice and never pay it, we're going into admin anyway'.
With that number of creditors there's no denying they knew what would happen. I have no sympathy at all. Neither will the conference when they kick them out.
I do feel for the fans though. They're watching their own scarborough unfold and it has to be heart-breaking.
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Main site: "The Halifax Courier reports that "Creditors have spoken of their reluctance to do business with Halifax Town in the wake of the club's latest cash crisis, which has led to a settlement offer of 2.5p in the pound......"
I'm not sure Halifax will get away with it this time.
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BMW Financial Services (GB) Ltd, Europa House, Bartley Way, Hook, Hampshire, £12,125.69
Company car?
Coach Options, 768, Manchester Road, Castleton, Rochdale, £5,690
Another coach company left out of pocket.
St John Ambulance, South and West Yorkshire, Healey Road, Ossett, Wakefield, £1,316.
Always nice to shaft a charity.
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I don't know the exact workings of a CVA, but if this was a person going for an Individual Voluntary Arrangement or IVA it would requre the owners of 75% of the overall debt to agree to the proposal. If I remember correctly tax debt could not be included in an IVA, but maybe it's different for CVA. Can't imagine the the revenue accepting 2.5p in the pound as it's virtually writing the debt off.
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My brain can't handle this at the moment as i have still not recovered from Weymouth. But if anyone has the patience to read this legal waffle about the CVA, here it is
http://www.companyrescue.co.uk/company-rescue/options/detailed_cva.aspx (http://www.companyrescue.co.uk/company-rescue/options/detailed_cva.aspx)
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Hebden Bridge firm Fat Cat Trading Company, which provides promotional banners and ground boards, is owed £169 and owner Craig Mitchell said he had been stung twice over the years by Halifax Town. 'I wouldn't touch the club with a barge pole now', he said. 'It is not worth the hassle... With the best will in the world it does not seem to matter who is running the club. People probably give 100 per cent but it seems to happen every few years. It is a shame. 2.5p is not worth a light. I have learned my lesson and I bet there are a lot of people like me'
This bit interested me as he's basically saying whats the point of 2.5p in the pound and he doesn't want others to be ripped off like he has, now the only way he can make his point is to not accept it.
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Hebden Bridge firm Fat Cat Trading Company, which provides promotional banners is owed £169 and owner Craig Mitchell said he had been hung out to dry.
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BMW Financial Services (GB) Ltd, Europa House, Bartley Way, Hook, Hampshire, £12,125.69
Company car?
Coach Options, 768, Manchester Road, Castleton, Rochdale, £5,690
Another coach company left out of pocket.
St John Ambulance, South and West Yorkshire, Healey Road, Ossett, Wakefield, £1,316.
Always nice to shaft a charity.
St John Ambulance often get shafted by clubs in admin. They were at Valley Parade on the day of the Bradford fire, treating the injured and dying. When Bradford went into admin after spending a fortune on players wages, the St John ambulance were owed thousands of pounds. Dispicable!
I read a comment from a fan on the Halifax forum that they had to spend the wages or they would be in the UniBond! Do people not get it? To be honest, there are very strong parallels with Scarborough. I think a lot of it is pure vanity, maintaining an image and so on.
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I've stuck this list on my site (hope no-one minds) http://www.vauxhall-senator.com/blogs/index.php/2008/04/30/now_this_is_what_i_call_a_debt I'm absolutely shocked that a) a club can choose to live like this and b) that current law means tiny repayments can be made and potentially accepted.
And as an indirect consequence I noted some North East companies on the list, including a kit company in Killingworth. No doubt they ran out of people willing to do business with them and had to look further afield.
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Does it only take one company to refuse for the deal to colapse?
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Does it only take one company to refuse for the deal to colapse?
Only if they have more than 25% share of the debt.
Another nice face I found out is that that average settlement is 40p in the pound. So a little bit more than 2.5p then? :o
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BMW Financial Services (GB) Ltd, Europa House, Bartley Way, Hook, Hampshire, £12,125.69
Company car?
Coach Options, 768, Manchester Road, Castleton, Rochdale, £5,690
Another coach company left out of pocket.
St John Ambulance, South and West Yorkshire, Healey Road, Ossett, Wakefield, £1,316.
Always nice to shaft a charity.
Ha ha sorry shouldn't laugh but that last one cracked me up! :D
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Hebden Bridge firm Fat Cat Trading Company, which provides promotional banners and ground boards, is owed £169 and owner Craig Mitchell said he had been stung twice over the years by Halifax Town. 'I wouldn't touch the club with a barge pole now', he said. 'It is not worth the hassle... With the best will in the world it does not seem to matter who is running the club. People probably give 100 per cent but it seems to happen every few years. It is a shame. 2.5p is not worth a light. I have learned my lesson and I bet there are a lot of people like me'
This bit interested me as he's basically saying whats the point of 2.5p in the pound and he doesn't want others to be ripped off like he has, now the only way he can make his point is to not accept it.
So you're thinking that if everyone chose to do this then Halifax could just settle their debts without paying any of it off? >:(
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I think the bloke has found the 2.5p insulting and will not be accepting it... What has he to lose ? As he said its practically nothing anyway
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I think the bloke has found the 2.5p insulting and will not be accepting it... What has he to lose ? As he said its practically nothing anyway
Yeah true, however the companies that are owed thousands surely won't think like that!?
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I think the bloke has found the 2.5p insulting and will not be accepting it... What has he to lose ? As he said its practically nothing anyway
Yeah true, however the companies that are owed thousands surely won't think like that!?
I think they will, as a company owed £4000 would only get £100. I think they would refuse on principle. Does anyone know if halifax have any assets if they were liquidated?
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assets situation not clever
hence the derisory 2.5 pence in the pound proposal.
if ive read this correctly, the tax man is owed 470,000 pounds.
So if the Inland Revenue agree to the proposal, they would receive 11,750 pounds.
that's ridiculous.
But does anyone know previous examples of small percentage CVA's
does the Rvenue agree that £11,000 is better than nothing or does it take a stand and refuse to accept the CVA.?
does anyone else begin to feel less sorry for Halifax when you read this?
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but does anyone know if crown debt can be included in the CVA? HMG would surely take the first and biggest slice of any funds available.
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2.5p is just unacceptable and I'm sure most companies, including the tax man would just find it insulting.... If they were allowed to get away with 2.5p in the £1 then it just means you can spend what you want and never have to pay it back.... I can't believe the Conference would even allow them to get away with paying back so little, its hardly setting a good example to others ?
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So what would happen if the tax man (who if i'm right in believing has 24% of the debt) refused the 2.5p offer?
Would companies that are owed more trivial amounts just accept the 2.5p in the pound because if they don't then Halifax would be liquidated? They may think, oh well 'I'm not going to accept the 2.5p at all and Halifax will go bust' or they might think 'I might as well accept the 2.5p, as that way I'll still get a few quid and Halifax won't go bust.'
Surely the only reason as to why creditors won't accept the 2.5p is out of principle and because they want to see Halifax wound up?
What happens to the Creditors who refuse the 2.5p? Do they never recieve their monies owed??
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I am not 100% sure but i think it works that if a certain percentage refuse the CVA the club will be declared bankrupt and any assets will be sold to cover their losses. This could end up being a lot less that 2.5p in the £ or even nothing at all as I think the revenue will have first call on anything.
The other factor is the VAT on any of these invoices. I think the companies have to apply to the receivers so that they can reclaim any VAT they have already paid on the invoices.
One of the interesting creditors for me was the local police force. I assume this is for policing at home games. Surely the local force could now refuse to provide man power for the matches which meant that they could not fulfil their home fixtures.
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Does it only take one company to refuse for the deal to colapse?
Only if they have more than 25% share of the debt.
Another nice face I found out is that that average settlement is 40p in the pound. So a little bit more than 2.5p then? :o
So if the Inland Revenue refused, who are owed around 24% of the debt, it would only take a couple more companies to refuse for Halifax to go bust?
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If everyone accepts how long do they have to pay and is there anyone with the patience to work out from the list how much that would be?
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If everyone accepts how long do they have to pay and is there anyone with the patience to work out from the list how much that would be?
Well the debt is 2M so they would end up paying £50,000, which is farcical.
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Most companies are likely to refuse if they are owed upwards of 10,000 pounds.
A lot of companies will feel that by accepting 2.5 pence it means somebody has got away with ripping them off and just walked away. Someone gets to buy Halifax for a fraction of what they should be taking on. By refusing the CVA it gives companies an opportunity to say that they wont give their services up for free again. It will also stop a repeat situation.
From a Halifax point of view they would be better just folding up and starting an AFC club than continue with this vicious circle. A clean slate in a lower division could be a better future.
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At the risk of being 'peaked' to death, I think we should get on with outr lives as Alty fans and stop focussing on the Halifax situation. I'm as gutted as the rest of you about our relegation and all the fond dreams of the late 60's when we could see league football at Moss Lane in ten years have finally crumbled to dust.
I can't ever see that happening now.
I thought that if we could just hold on in this league and build up gradually, then in the NEXT tean years there may have been a chance - but it's going to be not far short of that before we get back in the BSP.
Not only that, I just can't see Halifax going bump and giving us a reprieve again. It's just clutching at straw and it's not going to happen. I hope I've proved wrong, I truly do.
At the end of the day, I'll still be following the team whatever league they're in and whoever's the manager. For what it's worth, I hope that's not Ken McKenna.
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Most companies are likely to refuse if they are owed upwards of 10,000 pounds.
A lot of companies will feel that by accepting 2.5 pence it means somebody has got away with ripping them off and just walked away. Someone gets to buy Halifax for a fraction of what they should be taking on. By refusing the CVA it gives companies an opportunity to say that they wont give their services up for free again. It will also stop a repeat situation.
From a Halifax point of view they would be better just folding up and starting an AFC club than continue with this vicious circle. A clean slate in a lower division could be a better future.
If they folded and started an AFC club, what would happen to the Shay? What happens to all the creditors who are owed money? Does no one get held accountable for all this debt owed?
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At the risk of being 'peaked' to death, I think we should get on with outr lives as Alty fans and stop focussing on the Halifax situation. I'm as gutted as the rest of you about our relegation and all the fond dreams of the late 60's when we could see league football at Moss Lane in ten years have finally crumbled to dust.
I can't ever see that happening now.
I thought that if we could just hold on in this league and build up gradually, then in the NEXT tean years there may have been a chance - but it's going to be not far short of that before we get back in the BSP.
Not only that, I just can't see Halifax going bump and giving us a reprieve again. It's just clutching at straw and it's not going to happen. I hope I've proved wrong, I truly do.
At the end of the day, I'll still be following the team whatever league they're in and whoever's the manager. For what it's worth, I hope that's not Ken McKenna.
Why do you think it will take us 10 years to get back in the BSP?
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At the risk of being 'peaked' to death, I think we should get on with outr lives as Alty fans and stop focussing on the Halifax situation. I'm as gutted as the rest of you about our relegation and all the fond dreams of the late 60's when we could see league football at Moss Lane in ten years have finally crumbled to dust.
I can't ever see that happening now.
I thought that if we could just hold on in this league and build up gradually, then in the NEXT tean years there may have been a chance - but it's going to be not far short of that before we get back in the BSP.
Not only that, I just can't see Halifax going bump and giving us a reprieve again. It's just clutching at straw and it's not going to happen. I hope I've proved wrong, I truly do.
At the end of the day, I'll still be following the team whatever league they're in and whoever's the manager. For what it's worth, I hope that's not Ken McKenna.
Indeed.
There's plenty to debate about Alty's future rather than get mired in the Halifax financial morass!
May I ask if there's any particular reason why you would not be inclined welcome Ken McKenna with open arms?
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Just my opinion, but here goes:
First: Getting back in the BSP
We're going to lose at least 30% of our gates in the BSN. The loss of that income is going to mean we're not going to be able to keep half our team without them taking a cut - also, until the financial madness dies down (if it ever does) we won't even be able to compete, wage wise, with what teams like Hyde are offering.
Let's face it, we had a fantastic end to our first season in the BSN and competed fabulously in the play-offs. We exceeded all our expectations and got into the BSP even finishing a lot of points off the top. Could we ever now fund a team that was capable of winning that league without several years build up to it given that there is not going to be any spending sanctioned which would take us into the red? (something, by the way, I fully agree with)
Secondly: Ken McKenna
The Welsh league is a completely different animal to the BSP or the BSN so it's taking a big risk to put too much faith in the achievements at TNS. Wasn't Davenport at Bangor for a while and he didn't stay long at Southport.
More importantly, the TNS side was heavily subsidised and a full-time outfit. I don't think he's got any experience in running a club on a shoestring like our would have to be - especially in the BSN.
For my money, a better bet would be Graham Barrow (which is why I thought he was being brought here in the first place in the longer term). Someone who, OK, has only had management experince at ful time clubs but has worked with very little money for virtually all his managerial career and who has the good of the club at heart as much as Ken.
Having said all that, I wouldn't be devastated if Ken took over, I just think he's not the man for the job.
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I think Halifax is part of our issues at the moment though. I just don't feel relegated yet.. yes I had a tear or two on Satdee and also was quiet with everyone for a couple of days and wasn't interested in anything..
This sounds silly but I can't move forwards until after the AGM, I feel like my emotions have been all over the place the last few years and I am not subjecting myself to Conference North Football just yet.
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I think Halifax is part of our issues at the moment though. I just don't feel relegated yet.. yes I had a tear or two on Satdee and also was quiet with everyone for a couple of days and wasn't interested in anything..
This sounds silly but I can't move forwards until after the AGM, I feel like my emotions have been all over the place the last few years and I am not subjecting myself to Conference North Football just yet.
You've hit the nail on the head, I feel exactly the same, its okay sayin we're clutching at straws but we've seen whats happened the last few years. I just don't feel we've been relegated yet. Even more so Farsley seem to be keen on a reprieve too from some sources !!
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I sincerely hope you're all correct. No one would be more chuffed than me if we stayed up.
Apart from anything else, I've got a couple of litres of Merlot I'd planned to drink (or at least try to get through) after last saturday evening if we survived. Drinking them now would just stick in my throat.
I'll keep them for the AGM eh? ;)
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What a great bunch of fans we are,all we seem to want to do is get someone fired from their job after they brought us back upto the BSP,helped get rid of all the clubs debt,so now its thank you very much now p**s off,find yourself another job as we dont want you anymore.gosh we are lucky we dont have bosses that think like our fans do.
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Pardon ?
I am not gettin into this debate fully yet until after the meeting they all have but your point means that he should be manager until he dies and also that no manager would ever get sacked\leave cos I reckon that 90% of managers would have had some form of success somewhere?
Ok on flip side if you were a company that competed with 24 other complanies and you came in the bottom 4 every season and had unhappy customers would you say some sort of management change would be required?
It would hardly be "p*ss Off" on a knee jerk reaction, I never count the first relegation of the last THREE as not our fault but over the last two seasons we have declined on the pitch.
And this finances and safe footing thing does my head in... The BOARD OF DIRECTORS have done that not the manager ... at what other club would they thank the manager for 'clearing debts' ????
Ok maybe I got a little bit into the debate already .......
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I would shout for his head if i thought he was a bad manager and not good enough,i think his main mistake was not having faith in loan players,but after this season i think that may have changed,i hope so,but then again he may have a few bob to spend.I dont like players not contracted,look at Lewis.
Now we have the team of the two Grahams i would love to see how a season together works out and if the reprive does come and the two Grahams dont get the results where will we be,oh yes going down to BSN.I dont feel like we have been relegated either yet.
But at the end of the day its up to the board and not us.I will still be an Alty fan no matter who is the manager.
Another thing i am slowly discovering Alty fans in Devon and Cornwall,saw someone at Weymouth and reckonised them at Crediton on Monday so had a 10 minute chat over the game.We might just end up with a west country supporters group. ;D
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What a great bunch of fans we are,all we seem to want to do is get someone fired from their job after they brought us back upto the BSP,helped get rid of all the clubs debt,so now its thank you very much now p**s off,find yourself another job as we dont want you anymore.gosh we are lucky we dont have bosses that think like our fans do.
Gary makes a VERY valid point. What do you propose exactly? We stick with the same manager until he leaves this mortal coil because he did the business for us in the past? That makes no sense whatsoever. This has alreday been discussed in great length on another thread and this is not the place for it here. I refer you to my post there. Nobody is rubbing their hands with glee over this. There are also other factors to consider besides on-pitch performances. You could look at the flip-side of this and say how many other clubs would stick with the same manager after three successive relegations and some highly embarrassing sideline antics?
Most people probably feel torn on this issue, I know I do, but times change and people move on in all walks of life.
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According to my Crawley Town supporter mate at work, Crawley got away with 0.5p to the £
The over 25% needed to vote against Halifax worries me as that indicates the Taxman does not have the clout to wind up Halifax.
Another food for thought is that local businesses listed may not want the bad publicity of being part of winding up the local Football Club.
I have a nasty feeling Halifax are going to get away with this just like the example set in letting off Crawley from a similar situation and only relatively recently.
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What a great bunch of fans we are,all we seem to want to do is get someone fired from their job after they brought us back upto the BSP,helped get rid of all the clubs debt,so now its thank you very much now p**s off,find yourself another job as we dont want you anymore.gosh we are lucky we dont have bosses that think like our fans do.
Gary makes a VERY valid point. What do you propose exactly? We stick with the same manager until he leaves this mortal coil because he did the business for us in the past? That makes no sense whatsoever. This has alreday been discussed in great length on another thread and this is not the place for it here. I refer you to my post there. Nobody is rubbing their hands with glee over this. There are also other factors to consider besides on-pitch performances. You could look at the flip-side of this and say how many other clubs would stick with the same manager after three successive relegations and some highly embarrassing sideline antics?
Most people probably feel torn on this issue, I know I do, but times change and people move on in all walks of life.
100% agree
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Right back on topic,I have cut and pasted this from the Halifax forum(hope this is ok Gary if not just delete it)The HMRC will usually only turn down a CVA if any of the other creditors are paid in full. The only creditors now classed as "preferential" are the football debts, because the FA insist all football creditors are paid in full. As we have no football debts, the HMRC are unlikely to contest the CVA offer so we "should" be OK. In theory anyway.
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What a great bunch of fans we are,all we seem to want to do is get someone fired from their job after they brought us back upto the BSP,helped get rid of all the clubs debt,so now its thank you very much now p**s off,find yourself another job as we dont want you anymore.gosh we are lucky we dont have bosses that think like our fans do.
Typical of the kind of sycophantic drivel we have come to expect from the pro-Heathcote clan. Let's all live in the past and make no effort to move the club forward.
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I'm not going to say HSmith is right - or that you are, but GH did move the club forwared from Unibond to Conference and did it on one of the lowest budgets in each league. I don't know if sticking with GH is the right thing (I'm in 2 minds when I normally have problems with one), but I think that retort was a little harsh.
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BMW Financial Services (GB) Ltd, Europa House, Bartley Way, Hook, Hampshire, £12,125.69
Company car?
Coach Options, 768, Manchester Road, Castleton, Rochdale, £5,690
Another coach company left out of pocket.
St John Ambulance, South and West Yorkshire, Healey Road, Ossett, Wakefield, £1,316.
Always nice to shaft a charity.
I think Mr. Bosomworth the guy who's taking over is a BMW dealer so the first bit is gone.
I'm sure the coach company were over the moon at them offering free travel to Droylsden
St.Johns Ambulance get shafted all the time by football clubs in admin and as Bob say's on page 1, the way that they were done over by Bradford was a disgrace given tehir conduct on that fateful day in May 1985. An excellent piece about it in David Conn's boo 'The Bueatiful Game' for more reading.
With regards to the % of creditors. Over 50% have to agree to the CVA, if the guys taking over (Bosomworth and Ham) who hav ebeen funding the club for the past year have been putting money in as 'loans' rather than the investment it would have been they will be owed more than half the debt and get to accept the cva. So they get back 2.5p of the money they were prepared to lose anyway. Nice.
Also, are you sure Crawley only paid 0.5p in the pound, I think you mean 50p in the pound.
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Alty 365 is probably pissed off with the idea that Alty fans are heartless. The support and understanding given throughout the past 3 years has been remarkable and wouldn't have happened at many if any other clubs. This is taken for granted sometimes and to be honest it does stick in the throat a bit.
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I'm not going to say HSmith is right - or that you are, but GH did move the club forwared from Unibond to Conference and did it on one of the lowest budgets in each league. I don't know if sticking with GH is the right thing (I'm in 2 minds when I normally have problems with one), but I think that retort was a little harsh.
Nobody is denying that GH has done great things for this club, both as a player and a manager. However, everyone has a shelf life and we can't ignore this fact just because of good things he did in the past. It doesn't mean we are forgetting the good contributions he made but it is time now to make changes. To keep him because of things he did three or more years ago would be over-sentimental and very bad for the club.
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I have had my say you know my views,so am going to leave it there.At least the club is on sound ground,unlike Halifax,Rotherham and a few others by all accounts,jus keeping my fingers crossed now
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What a great bunch of fans we are,all we seem to want to do is get someone fired from their job after they brought us back upto the BSP,helped get rid of all the clubs debt,so now its thank you very much now p**s off,find yourself another job as we dont want you anymore.gosh we are lucky we dont have bosses that think like our fans do.
In terms of clearing the debt, that is primarily down to the board who made sure there was a strict budget in place. Graham managed within that budget and fair play to him for doing that, but there is nothing to say he is the only man capable of working to a budget and it does not make him untouchable.
The fact that Graham did a fantastic job getting us to BSP does not mean he is somehow fireproof. To suggest he is not suitable now does not mean there is no recognition for his past achievements.
I personally think that he has exhausted his potential as manager here. Again, that is no reflection on him personally or being ungrateful for what he has done. Football can be a harsh game, nobody is bigger than the club and that applies to every club in the country including here.
As for Halifax, I think they will pull through. I really do... The fact that we are the ones up for a reprieve (however random that is) is, I fear, going to work in Halifax's favour.
Also, I echo Ballers' comments about The Beautiful Game. It is the most fascinating book about football I have ever read. If anyone thinks "speculate to accumulate" or "live the dream" is worth a go, read that book.
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No Alty manager achieved more success for the club than Tony Sanders......but it didn't guarantee him the job for life.
Who was more synonymous with Altrincham FC during much of the late 1970s, the 1980s and most of the 1990s than John King?
However, in March 1998, he realised that his time at Moss Lane was up and resigned honourably.
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Apologies if this has already been discussed, but shouldn't the ultimate blame for this sort of thing lie with footballing authorities - either the FA or individual leagues. Surely they could set out some rules for financial management - e.g. debt cannot exceed a certain percentage of turnover. Football Clubs are businesses and therefore must produce accounts. A series of scaled sanctions/actions could be applied well before the need to deduct points/boot out of a league
I suppose authorities may be against it as it would reduce monies pumped into football - dodgy billionaires couldn't pump money through debt etc
Maybe it'd break some EU directive or something
Any thoughts?
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I don't think the league has the authority to tell a club how much they can borrow. The best way to stop this sort of thing is to forget about points deductions and relegate them two divisions. But while people/businesses are silly enough to keep lending them money they can't complain when they get screwed.
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Apologies if this has already been discussed, but shouldn't the ultimate blame for this sort of thing lie with footballing authorities - either the FA or individual leagues. Surely they could set out some rules for financial management - e.g. debt cannot exceed a certain percentage of turnover. Football Clubs are businesses and therefore must produce accounts. A series of scaled sanctions/actions could be applied well before the need to deduct points/boot out of a league
I suppose authorities may be against it as it would reduce monies pumped into football - dodgy billionaires couldn't pump money through debt etc
Maybe it'd break some EU directive or something
Any thoughts?
Such things have been mentioned & you are exactly right. The clubs should not get into these messes and the FA/Conference etc should not allow them to.
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Whatever happens next season is there any chance that samples of the DNA of Val Owen, Rod Thornley and Eddie Hussiin have been sent to one of the UK's top cloning laboratories?
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they ow my a £5er lol ;D