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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: The Cult of John Brady on October 29, 2006, 12:51:46 AM
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Yes, he runs about and displays a fine work ethic.....but can we really afford to carry someone who has contributed a meagre 2 goals from 19 games so far this season in a team that struggles to score at the best of times?
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well by that logic we should get rid of every striker we have barring colin little. joe is a good player holds the ball up well and yes runs himself into the ground i think that when he does this with colin little following up it will work a treat. give the man a chance ! ! ! !
100th post ! ! ! ! !
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well by that logic we should get rid of every striker we have barring colin little. joe is a good player holds the ball up well and yes runs himself into the ground i think that when he does this with colin little following up it will work a treat. give the man a chance ! ! ! !
100th post ! ! ! ! !
He does not hold the ball up well! He cannot control the ball full stop and manages to fall over at every opportunity. He had a half chance yesterday that any haf decent striker would have at least made contact but as usual he made a powder puff effort and the chance was wasted. We're 17? games in now and if that's not giving someone a chance I don't know what it is.
Oh and congrats on the 100 :)
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I can't see who else would be playing other than Joe.
So what would your starting two up front have been yesterday ?
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Hopefully GH will havemore options as Colin, Peter and Lee get fit?
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I can't see who else would be playing other than Joe.
So what would your starting two up front have been yesterday ?
Alongside Rod, probably Kieran or Pat.
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Kieran is a poor finisher, I saw him play for Radcliffe a few weeks ago and did not impress then. Pat has plenty of running but needs more games. But saying that I would have started Rod and Pat yesterday.
When all are fit I think the strikers should be Thompson and Little, Tommo really can take a shot!
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Kieran has scored prob no more than 5 goals in his Alty first team career and I can't say that Pat has looked anywhere near ready for starting a game for Altrincham FC.
i was not a Joe O'neil fan but HE DOES hold the ball up and chases everything, but I agree he can not shoot but thats why Rod or a. n . other plays with him.
If we played with two out and out strikers you would complain that there was no one holding up the ball and it kept being defended and coming back at our defence ? Would you say Rod held the ball up yesterday ? I would say not. Seems that a bad performance has been coming and the person that was going to 'get it' was Joe O'neil, ala Gallagher used to.
So you are now crucifying a player on a half chance. ... Brilliant ???
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I agree our attacking options are poor, but I still think that anyone could do just as good, if not a better job, than O'Neil. Just my opinion of course. As Daycare Dan said I would also like to see Little & Thompson up front :)
I did mention in my post on the other thread that the midfield were nowhere. After saying Peyton had a good game against Southport, he was extremely poor yesterday, as was Chalmers. I've never been a fan of Aspinall but as he's top scorer he's doing ok ;) I may have 'picked on' Joe, but it's been building up over the last few games and seeing him consistently lose the ball yesterday made me completely lose my patience with him.
Of course, if he scores a hat trick next week my opinon may change ;)
Thanks for all the minuses guys - just because we disagree I get a negative. Cheers! ::)
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Nobody can deny that Joe needs to improve with his scoring ratio but as has been said he does hold the ball up very well. Last season we didnt have that as much and we found Colin Little having to go deep which left us short up front on a lot of occaisions. As has also been noted his work rate is fantastic - ok he was poor at rushden yesterday but who wasnt?
Hopefully when Peter Thompson is (finally) fit we will be better up front but at the momment we havnt got many options. To sum up our other forwards bar little who is obviously going to play when fit...
Keiran is simply not good enough for this level and i think the only reason he is still around is because he is paid so little. his scoring record since his debut has been poor.
Rod has been playing well (especially before he went off on international duty) but we dont get 90 minutes from him at the minute.
Hendley when fit has looked good in patches but needs to improve, hopefully with time he will.
McFadden has always looked ok when ive seen him for the reserves but hasnt done it in his appearences for the 1st team.
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Re. Joe O'Neill:
"but I agree he cannot shoot".
Bit of a handicap that for a supposed striker!
As I said before, his commitment cannot be questioned but only 2 goals in 19 league & cup appearnces to date (and some eyewitnesses to his goal at home to Tamworth even cast doubt on whether he had got the final touch!) does not bode well for the remainder of the season.
The most worrying thing is that he just doesn't even look like scoring and his rare shots are generally very tame.
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Joe O'Neil is never going to be a 20-goal a season striker, but his major strength is he does hold a ball up well and we seriously lacked that kind of player last season. His major disadvantage at Alty lately, has been his complete and utter lack of support up front - a monkey could work that out! With Colin Little on his way back and Peter Thompson breathing down his neck, he will prove his worth in the long term. It can't help that fans are constantly on his back.
AltyBri
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I don't regard myself as "being on his back" and am certainly aware of his work rate etc.....but I just don't believe that is enough at this level, especially in a team where goals don't exactly flow.
Even when he played alongside Colin Little earlier this season, he never looked threatening as a goalscorer.
It could be five seasons before he hits the 20 goals mark!
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I hereby accuse "The Cult of" of not registering so to advoid being Peaked.
Defend yourself Sir!
I like Joe O'Neill. I'd like to see the ball into him then laid off to Little to finish with aplomb. Unfortunately when Little is not there or he is on his own we get the ball into him, then surrounded by three defenders, he loses it, they break and it looks like his fault.
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It's a fair point, I too like Joe but my biggest beef with him is that he's a poor finisher. Rod isn't a bad finisher, puts away clear chances relatively well. Joe on the other hand is poor, I was totally uninterested when he went clean through the other week against Southport, seriously :P coupled with his complete lack of instincts when a ball gets knocked across the box, he's the opposite of a gaol poacher (whatever that is).
On the plus side, he does hold the ball up well, when he has someone with him like Colin. He isn't any good on his own, able to hold it up front indefinately with 4 defenders climbing on him until Lawton gets to him. In the games he was up front with Col they looked a half decent partnership. I'd say in that instance, yes we can cope with his lack of goals, otherwise probably not. But then again if we had better options altogether we'd probably have Andy Bishop or Simon Yeo or something.
The kids are finding out what a tough league this is, Hendley may be the best bet maybe not. Personally I'm looking forward to seeing Peter Thomson fit and getting a run out. I know that his reputation doesn't exactly strike fear into defenders hearts and Southport fans in particular seem to think he's awful but he's a big/huge target man with a decent shot on him. It's a bit dispiriting when we don't have any physical presence up front and I like the idea that if the ball does drop for him then the keeper might have some work to do (see paragraph 1). Just a genuine option up front rather than papering other the cracks with Younglings or Conference Rod would do.
It's been a sh*t weekend hasn't it. i'm going to give everyone some karma. :-*
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Ecky,
I must apologise for my tardiness in getting around to registering properly on this Forum.
The main reason is that I have been unable to make up my mind about which image to use on my profile.
Even after several hours of scouring through dusty old Alty programmes, I have yet to settle on my choice!
My indecision is now officially worse than that of Ray Dennis when a cross came into the penalty area...
Anyhow, I promise to resolve this matter soon and then you can all slaughter my karma rating...
Oh, and, like yourself, I am one of the elite group to have witnessed both of Joe O'Neill's goals for Alty!
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At the moment Joe is the best option we have in that position, He works his socks off and has generally been very consistant.
As the other forwards get fit then GH will have to decide who plays upfront.
Perhaps on Sunday he'll go back and haunt York with a hatrick?
Let's get behind the lads!
Come on you Robin's
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Oh, and, like yourself, I am one of the elite group to have witnessed both of Joe O'Neill's goals for Alty!
If you mean the CSC 'goal' then i too am in that elite group, however a goal for joe it was not.
cult i put it to you that even if you were to register there is no way you would be able to change the alty player of whom you worship at the time,
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jo is best option for now! i am wundering how many first team injuries do we atually have at the moment ?
i am also wundering about lee hendley would he make a good inpact coming on at the start of a game instead of coming on as a sub all the time ...
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I have to agree joe's got decent holding up ability but im sure we've got players on other area's of the pitch with that attribute so 2 in 19 says it all really
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I had a long conversation only yesterday afternoon with York City Manager Billy McEwan and the topic soon turned to Joe, and he confirmed to me that he would have liked to have kept him but at the time we didn't have the money to offer him a decent contract and so he recommended him to Graham Heathcote at Altrincham. He described him as a "really nice lad", "my kind of player" and a player who was "great to work with". Believe me, having spoken to Billy McEwan a number of times, he is not the kind of guy who recommends bad players to fellow managers because he is really conscious of his reputation in the eyes of other coaches.
O'Neill makes goals, he doesn't score them. Ironically we have replaced Joe with Craig Farrell who is I think a better player but has only scored 3 goals in 19 games, and yet I would put him as one of the first names on the teamsheet as I am sure many of you would with Joe O'Neill.
Sometimes, at the level we play at, you just can't have 2 strikers who will get you 15-25 goals a season. You have a class act in Colin Little (from what I saw the other week) and I think Joe will make goals for him. Clubs like York City and Altrincham will never have 2 goal machines up front while we are in the Conference because it's difficult enough for us to hang on to one - look at Andy Bishop! The sniff of some cash and he was off and the vultures have been circling over Donaldson for a while now. Mick McCarthy was at the York-Alty game sniffing after players, and he's the manager of a Championship side!
Believe in Joe, and he will repay you.
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Sometimes, at the level we play at....
Clubs like York City and Altrincham will never have 2 goal machines up front while we are in the Conference....
Come on Phil, you ol' NLL keep the faith ;)
Have some karma old boy
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O'Neill makes goals, he doesn't score them. Ironically we have replaced Joe with Craig Farrell who is I think a better player but has only scored 3 goals in 19 games, and yet I would put him as one of the first names on the teamsheet as I am sure many of you would with Joe O'Neill.
Sometimes, at the level we play at, you just can't have 2 strikers who will get you 15-25 goals a season. You have a class act in Colin Little (from what I saw the other week) and I think Joe will make goals for him. Clubs like York City and Altrincham will never have 2 goal machines up front while we are in the Conference because it's difficult enough for us to hang on to one - look at Andy Bishop! The sniff of some cash and he was off and the vultures have been circling over Donaldson for a while now. Mick McCarthy was at the York-Alty game sniffing after players, and he's the manager of a Championship side!
Believe in Joe, and he will repay you.
Firstly, Phil is right. We aren't likely to have two frequent goal scorers up front, however it is possible to have the next best thing; a goal scoring partnership. Had Colin Little not been injured from the Halifax game to the FA Cup game against R&D it is doubtful whether we would be having this conversation regarding Joe O'Neill and his worth to the team. Against Exeter in just their third league game as the front two some of the link up play between O'Neill and Little was sublime; neat, crisp one touch passing that directly led to the first goal. With this is mind O'Neill should be judged not in terms of how many goals he scores but how many the front two and even the team scores.
I suppose on a smaller scale O’Neill’s role can be seen as similar to that of Sheringham at West Ham, when Sheringham starts he isn't starting because Pardew thinks he is going to get a goal or two (although he may) he is starting for what he brings to the team and to the attacking options of the team in general. Let Little and O'Neill try to re-establish a partnership that was originally disrupted through injury in its infancy, if things don't work out then we can raise questions. However what we shouldn't do is question O'Neill's inclusion in the side on the basis of his goal scoring record, as strange as it may seem for a striker, scoring goals is not his primary function within the team.
Secondly, Phil you must be going soft. I can't believe you used the phrase; "Clubs like York City and Altrincham..."
What is the world coming to? :-*
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I can not believe people are saying Joe cant hold the ball up. He is excellent at holding the ball up.
The question has to be how long can he actually hold the ball up for before he gets tackled. He generally has no one to pass to because the midfield dont support him.
We play two up front with Joe generally playing behind Colin. Colin is therefore always marked by one or two defenders. So where does Joe lay the ball off to?
Without the midfield moving up to support there is no one. We have no one pushing wide usually, perhaps Lawton does a little but he is not really bombing on is he. We have to look at the centre of the park and where our attacking options are coming from. How often due you see Bushell, Owen or whoever moving up to support the attack. We dont. Why? Because all our centre midfield players are holding players. We dont have a Paul Scholes type players in the squad. Probably because we dont want to get beat 5-0 every game. So this is understandable.
This is I believe is our problem.
I say lay off Joe, he is one of the classy players in our team who is not getting the support he needs.
Joes goal scoring is another issue. How can he realistically score if he always has his back to the goal and has no assistance. Yes he has been in front of goal of sometimes and missed. I accept that, but without regular opportunities he is never going to score. Look at Andy Cole. 10 chances a match and scores 1. Joe gets 1 or 2 chances and scores none.
Please dont just look at the individual, look at the formation, the team and the tactics and everything on the pitch.
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I think the joe o'neill debate is a good one with divided opinions but how many of you think joe would be a starting striker for any other conference side?
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Surely, the definition of a striker implies that the player is someone who strikes!
Does one goal in 18 league games merit the use of such a noun or do we need to find another term for Joe O'Neill?!
Rod Thornley has managed twice as many goals in half as many appearances!
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Forward Joe o'neill is a forward colin is the striker and joe is the forward supply man
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Forward Joe o'neill is a forward colin is the striker and joe is the forward supply man
Agreed.
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In response to Jacko,s question, I think he would be pushing for a place in half the conference teams?
Other than the poor return on goals he is playing well in my opinion!
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I think he is too good for the other players. They don't read the game as well as him.
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I found him frustrating today, anybody else?
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No I didn't.
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I think he might push for a place in the unibond more like
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I would like to add that any player that comes highly recommend by there old maneger is a form of contradiction in todays football,how many times do you here manegers say of there old players "hes a nice lad"!