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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Altyrocket on November 09, 2021, 10:35:35 AM
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https://www.altrinchamfc.com/news/capacity-restricted-as-important-ground-safety-work-gets-underway
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Could cost us if we have charlton at home, however if its unsafe it must be done
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I'm not surprised. The pop side needs flattening.
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The wall on Golf Road is especially dangerous, has been for years. Plus other areas need work doing. For safety glad to see it getting done. Fan zone is a fiasco, must say. Especially like others as I contributed to it..
Lets hope the repair work goes to plan and capacity isn't to much of an issue for upcoming games.
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The ground is tired and I'm not overly surprised by this turn of events. On the plus-side, we have been allowed to continue hosting games, albeit with restrictions in place. When the perimeter wall collapsed at Runcorn in the 90's, they were forced to play games elsewhere until the matter was resolved.
Safety first and foremost and let's hope the issues get resolved quickly.
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Could cost us if we have charlton at home, however if its unsafe it must be done
Looks like they're trying to get sections reopened as quickly as possible.
We will be working hard to minimise inconvenience and open as much of the ground as possible for Boreham Wood on Saturday, with further sections reopening for the Emirates FA Cup replay against Gateshead and the visit of Southend United.
Some of the more extensive remedial work will take a little while longer, but the intent is to be back at our previous levels before the home games with Wrexham and Stockport County.
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What are looking at capacity wise ? 3-4k?
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What are looking at capacity wise ? 3-4k?
I’d say so. Worst case around 3000 and best case maybe around 4000ish, so split the difference. Note no restrictions on the Main Stand side at all so all the seats plus the standing in front of the CSH that’s got to be at least 1400 straight away. Any potential Charlton tie still 3.5 weeks off so hopefully we can work quickly.
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Let's hope if there are restrictions in place IF we get the Charlton game, we're apologetic to the visitors but keep the home sections to the maximum as a gesture to the fans who have turned up in such good numbers this season.
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So some neighbour rings the council about the state of the Fan Zone, council come round shut that down and tell the club 'oh and by the way the ground doesn't meet certain safety standards'
FFS
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I think we all know the ground is and has been for quite a while in desperate need of repair.
The areas earmarked are as stated in a very sorry state. By the time all the plant and eqpt has been put in situ it will probably mean less people will be admitted than people think.
I agree with Andrew, The pop side does need replacing totally.
Let's hope if there are restrictions in place IF we get the Charlton game, we're apologetic to the visitors but keep the home sections to the maximum as a gesture to the fans who have turned up in such good numbers this season.
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The timing of this does seem somewhat strange, as isn't this the same Trafford BC who inspected the stadium back in early May and declared it to have a capacity of 7,000?
Alas, the Fan Zone has descended into something of an embarrassment.
Having said that, it's been obvious that the infrastructure of the ground has largely been neglected for many years and under separate administrations. Plus some significant developments have been piecemeal and/or discordant and have failed to prevent aspects of the ground from looking dilapidated.
Off the top of my head, during the last 25 years the only major developments have comprised the amendment to the central section of the Popular Side; the creation of the Sponsors Lounge and the introduction of the Noel White Suite (all of which occurred in the summer of 1996); the installation of new floodlights (2007); the erection of the CSH (2014/15) and, in more recent times, the replacement of the perimeter fencing; the upgrade of the sponsors lounge and the major pitch renovation.
Have I missed anything?
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New turnstiles at the golf road end.
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The timing of this does seem somewhat strange, as isn't this the same Trafford BC who inspected the stadium back in early May and declared it to have a capacity of 7,000?
Alas, the Fan Zone has descended into something of an embarrassment.
Having said that, it's been obvious that the infrastructure of the ground has largely been neglected for many years and under separate administrations. Plus some significant developments have been piecemeal and/or discordant and have failed to prevent aspects of the ground from looking dilapidated.
Off the top of my head, during the last 25 years the only major developments have comprised the amendment to the central section of the Popular Side; the creation of the Sponsors Lounge and the introduction of the Noel White Suite (all of which occurred in the summer of 1996); the installation of new floodlights (2007); the erection of the CSH (2014/15) and, in more recent times, the replacement of the perimeter fencing; the upgrade of the sponsors lounge and the major pitch renovation.
Have I missed anything?
The snack bar and toilet block, opened about 2007 IIRC.
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Off the top of my head, during the last 25 years the only major developments have comprised the amendment to the central section of the Popular Side; the creation of the Sponsors Lounge and the introduction of the Noel White Suite (all of which occurred in the summer of 1996); the installation of new floodlights (2007); the erection of the CSH (2014/15) and, in more recent times, the replacement of the perimeter fencing; the upgrade of the sponsors lounge and the major pitch renovation.
Have I missed anything?
TBF that is quite a bit. It's not that long ago that there was no bar, no Family Stand and just a few flag stones, a Portakabin and some crappy urinals on the other side of the Main Stand. That said, barring the central section of the Pop Side, it's the Moss Lane side of the ground that's seen all the development and the rest really is starting to creak. Very worrying ahead of Gateshead and, potentially, Charlton.
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There are plans afoot to basically build a new ground. This board are grasping the problem that has been building up for years. If we lose out on some capacity at a game that may never be, it's unfortunate but its not this boards fault.
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Absolutely. I guess we were just hoping it would limp on till the end of this cup run, but definitely safety first on this.
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As someone with 35 years experience in Building Control including Safety at Sports Grounds the only surprise to me is that it took this long. I can only suppose that Trafford MBC basically left us alone while crowds were relatively low but of course that has changed and there are some big games coming up. The Council will monitor the ground and carry out regular inspections including during live events.
The publicised increase in capacity last year however baffled me then and continues to do so, nothing about that seemed right and I would be surprised if the ground limit goes back up to that figure after the safety work is completed.
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I would like to state categorically that there are currently NO plans afoot for a new ground. We have a new pitch that has a life of at least 10 years and we intend to get the full benefit of it.
Work has started today on addressing the first of the issues on the ground and will continue. We are working with Trafford BC to establish the working capacity for the next two games, and then hopefully a higher capacity for the Southend United and subsequent games.
We will keep you posted
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To be fair Bill I think he meant the great redevelopment plans you have in place effectively deliver a new ground on the current site. Not that we will move to a new ground! I appreciate the update though
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I would like to state categorically that there are currently NO plans afoot for a new ground. We have a new pitch that has a life of at least 10 years and we intend to get the full benefit of it.
Work has started today on addressing the first of the issues on the ground and will continue. We are working with Trafford BC to establish the working capacity for the next two games, and then hopefully a higher capacity for the Southend United and subsequent games.
We will keep you posted
https://youtu.be/NrbRpqGiPQQ perhaps aspirations is a more accurate word than plans.
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I wonder what the Trafford BC SAG (Safety Advisory Group) would make of Moss Lane in 1936?
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/physical-training-1/query/altrincham (https://www.britishpathe.com/video/physical-training-1/query/altrincham)
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I wonder what the Trafford BC SAG (Safety Advisory Group) would make of Moss Lane in 1936?
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/physical-training-1/query/altrincham (https://www.britishpathe.com/video/physical-training-1/query/altrincham)
Still recognisable! All four sides of the ground on show there. Fascinating stuff.
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That's Parky doing fitness routines with this years team
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I wonder what the Trafford BC SAG (Safety Advisory Group) would make of Moss Lane in 1936?
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/physical-training-1/query/altrincham (https://www.britishpathe.com/video/physical-training-1/query/altrincham)
Bloody pitch invaders.
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Could we flog the pitch covers for a few quid ? could not resist sorry . Can we launch a crowd funder ? And seek funds from any football trust etc ?
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Just how bad is it actually? I am really worried about the possible repercussions if the
repairs improvements (sounds better) are not completed quickly.
We have been drawing a significant number of 'new' attendees to the home games this season whom I believe have been drawn to Moss Lane by the attractive brand of football and by the atmosphere created by having a relatively large crowd in our compact ground. My concern is that if we have multiple areas of the ground side closed to spectators on match days the scene will create a negative impression of the club to a number of individuals that were hitherto close to the hook.
If we beat the Heed and get a crack at the Addicks I hope that we are not faced with having to consider switching the tie to The Valley as a packed Moss Lane would give us a real advantage.
The current board are not to blame for the lack of investment in the infrastructure of the ground as more than two thirds of it is much the same as it was 50 years ago.
If we are fortunate to have a cup run and draw a big team IMHO I would like to see the proceeds invested in the stadium. I hate to say this because I have a real fondness for the ground as it is, but having seen what other clubs at our level and many of those at the step below have to offer, I sometimes feel a tad embarrassed.
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Im not sure ties can be switched nowdays
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Just how bad is it actually? I am really worried about the possible repercussions if the repairs improvements (sounds better) are not completed quickly.
We have been drawing a significant number of 'new' attendees to the home games this season whom I believe have been drawn to Moss Lane by the attractive brand of football and by the atmosphere created by having a relatively large crowd in our compact ground. My concern is that if we have multiple areas of the ground side closed to spectators on match days the scene will create a negative impression of the club to a number of individuals that were hitherto close to the hook.
If we beat the Heed and get a crack at the Addicks I hope that we are not faced with having to consider switching the tie to The Valley as a packed Moss Lane would give us a real advantage.
The current board are not to blame for the lack of investment in the infrastructure of the ground as more than two thirds of it is much the same as it was 50 years ago.
If we are fortunate to have a cup run and draw a big team IMHO I would like to see the proceeds invested in the stadium. I hate to say this because I have a real fondness for the ground as it is, but having seen what other clubs at our level and many of those at the step below have to offer, I sometimes feel a tad embarrassed.
Good post.
I am also concerned that we may lose atmosphere and new fans over the next few home games because of restrictions. The work must be done so no way around it.
Depending on how much crowd we lose, I do think the club will consider a switch, if we are fortunate enough to beat Gateshead.
I am sure it would allowed because of supporter welfare, however I would be against it as our first 11 will give Charlton a game at Moss Lane.
Alty never seem to have a period of stability. Luckily enough in recent seasons this has been for us but we need some luck with injuries, illness and now the ground.
These improvements should not be used as a negative against our current board.
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So if you exclude the Chequers end capacity of the ground is reduced too 1,455 with only 270 in Main Stand. Tuesday maybe an issue which I guess will be segregated.
Based on the bulletin this afternoon...
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We can kiss any chance of an atmosphere goodbye then. This is just our luck FFS
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We could put the Gateshead fans in the Golf Road and we have the Chequers End
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To be fair, to whichever bitter snake has been calling in the council, they’ve done a proper job on us
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So if you exclude the Chequers end capacity of the ground is reduced too 1,455 with only 270 in Main Stand. Tuesday maybe an issue which I guess will be segregated.
Based on the bulletin this afternoon...
Apparently the area in front of the CSH or the Family Stand is not counted at all in the restricted sphere so that’s another 400-500 right there. Yes it’s not ideal but fairly sure everyone who wants to get in will do both tomorrow and Saturday.
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669 all gathered in the middle section of the Popular Side?
That gantry will be packed....
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From the evidence today it looks like a man with an angle grinder followed by another with a concrete mixer and possibly a bit of attention to the asbestos roof. It shouldn't take too long.
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From the evidence today it looks like a man with an angle grinder followed by another with a concrete mixer and possibly a bit of attention to the asbestos roof. It shouldn't take too long.
Depends on the type of asbestos and any lag time if specialists are required.
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If it is the corrugated stuff on the roof it is cementitious therefore quite benign unless someone is silly with it. Same stuff you find on old garage roofs.
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Yes but some of it has been smashed by errant balls
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We can kiss any chance of an atmosphere goodbye then. This is just our luck FFS
due to crowds having to be more condensed the atmosphere was one of the best for some time . Worked in our favour . We need to shoot to Chequers first half if possible again on Tuesday
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What a corking attendance, thats two fingers to the whistle blower
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does someone at trafford not like us,i see they have reduced the maximum down again
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Well done to the whistler blower. You’ve done untold damage to the club you are supposed to ‘support’.
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I stood on the Pop side on Saturday and observed the markings that had beed made on the standing areas which were closed. They had marked places where the slabs meet where there were minor height differences 1/4" or where slab corners were broken. If that is what Trafford consider to be a health and safety risk, then every pavement and road in Trafford should be condemned.
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A really sad state of affairs all this.
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Capacity is reduced again tomorrow to 2,344
Match is all ticket and away supporters will be in the family stand.
Tickets on sale until 5pm tomorrow.
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I smell a rat
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I stood on the Pop side on Saturday and observed the markings that had beed made on the standing areas which were closed. They had marked places where the slabs meet where there were minor height differences 1/4" or where slab corners were broken. If that is what Trafford consider to be a health and safety risk, then every pavement and road in Trafford should be condemned.
I can tell you from my 20 years of dealing with Trafford Council on behalf of the black cab trade that the unwritten law has ALWAYS been "Do as we say, not as we do."
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Capacity is reduced again tomorrow to 2,344
Match is all ticket and away supporters will be in the family stand.
Tickets on sale until 5pm tomorrow.
Now sold out.
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Capacity is reduced again tomorrow to 2,344
Match is all ticket and away supporters will be in the family stand.
Tickets on sale until 5pm tomorrow.
Now sold out.
Wow so we have now sold 2,344 tickets i think without reduced capacity we would have been looking at 3000 plus for tomorrow night.
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Its a real shame after counting pennies for years that we now have to turn away willing supporters, but i cant see any way round it all
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The whole situation is vexing to say the least
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I smell a rat
Those will be at Old Trafford, another ground under the auspices of Trafford Council, that has / had a hell of a rodent problem at times.
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Doea anyone know who's dealing with it from TBC?
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Doea anyone know who's dealing with it from TBC?
Council McCouncil Face?
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Doea anyone know who's dealing with it from TBC?
These two https://youtu.be/aeARXMHW4Is
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Perhaps our long-standing local MP could pull his finger out on our behalf. He’ll have noted how much our gates have increased in recent times I’m sure. Sure the Board will be pursuing all avenues of influence.
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Perhaps our long-standing local MP could pull his finger out on our behalf. He’ll have noted how much our gates have increased in recent times I’m sure. Sure the Board will be pursuing all avenues of influence.
He won't give a flying fart till elections come round.
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I wonder what the Trafford BC SAG (Safety Advisory Group) would make of Moss Lane in 1936?
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/physical-training-1/query/altrincham (https://www.britishpathe.com/video/physical-training-1/query/altrincham)
Bloody pitch invaders.
I was watching one of those matches last year from the Belarusian Premier League and it appeared that some youngsters had a kick-around on the pitch at half time, putting down jumpers for goalposts... a different world over there.
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Does anyone know who's dealing with it from TBC?
Not sure who's overseeing all of this at Trafford Council but here are the contact details for the three local councillors of the Hale Central Ward, in which the J Davidson Stadium is located:
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=178 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=178)
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=6310 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=6310)
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=169 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=169)
It may be worth contacting them for some enlightenment.
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Perhaps our long-standing local MP could pull his finger out on our behalf. He’ll have noted how much our gates have increased in recent times I’m sure. Sure the Board will be pursuing all avenues of influence.
Maybe Charlton could give us some tips...
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Capacity is reduced again tomorrow to 2,344
Match is all ticket and away supporters will be in the family stand.
Tickets on sale until 5pm tomorrow.
Now sold out.
Wow so we have now sold 2,344 tickets i think without reduced capacity we would have been looking at 3000 plus for tomorrow night.
what a bloody shame this is . We need money for the ground and we are loosing it the longer it goes on
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Does anyone know who's dealing with it from TBC?
Not sure who's overseeing all of this at Trafford Council but here are the contact details for the three local councillors of the Hale Central Ward, in which the J Davidson Stadium is located:
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=178 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=178)
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=6310 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=6310)
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=169 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=169)
It may be worth contacting them for some enlightenment.
I wonder if they travel to work on the gravy train
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Does anyone know who's dealing with it from TBC?
Not sure who's overseeing all of this at Trafford Council but here are the contact details for the three local councillors of the Hale Central Ward, in which the J Davidson Stadium is located:
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=178 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=178)
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=6310 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=6310)
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=169 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=169)
It may be worth contacting them for some enlightenment.
Interesting of them lives just a 2 minute walk from the ground in a round heavily parked by fans, and probably dislikes the increase n traffic
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What I would like to/ know is, presuming we beat Gateshead, will we be anything near full capacity for Charlton?
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What I would like to/ know is, presuming we beat Gateshead, will we be anything near full capacity for Charlton?
given we are yet to see exactly what the issues are yet and then any time table and scale of works required . Coupled with tendering the work out and lead times etc . I would be stunned if anything significant changes in the next 4 to 8 weeks
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What I would like to/ know is, presuming we beat Gateshead, will we be anything near full capacity for Charlton?
given we are yet to see exactly what the issues are yet and then any time table and scale of works required . Coupled with tendering the work out and lead times etc . I would be stunned if anything significant changes in the next 4 to 8 weeks
Between us, we can put a jinx on tomorrow! ;)
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Does anyone know who's dealing with it from TBC?
Not sure who's overseeing all of this at Trafford Council but here are the contact details for the three local councillors of the Hale Central Ward, in which the J Davidson Stadium is located:
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=178 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=178)
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=6310 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=6310)
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=169 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=169)
It may be worth contacting them for some enlightenment.
I have gone straight to the top, as I live in Priory Ward where council leader Andrew Western is one of my councillors, and for whom I voted, as I reminded him in the polite email I just sent, asking him if he can investigate what's going on.
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Although it has been many years since I was last at Moss Lane, I’m struggling to understand why capacity in the main stand has been slashed. From what I can see on Alty TV, it doesn’t look like the stand is in imminent danger of collapse.
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I agree, why has the capacity in the main stand been cut?
Lets just say we beat Gateshead and Charlton and draw man U in round 3. Apparently, ground swapping is not allowed. IMAGINE THE CHAOS THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SBL
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I agree, why has the capacity in the main stand been cut?
Lets just say we beat Gateshead and Charlton and draw man U in round 3. Apparently, ground swapping is not allowed. IMAGINE THE CHAOS THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SBL
Don't worry, IF we get there, we'll have another away draw 😉👍
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I wonder if, based on etickets for 2021 and streams purchased if we can run reports to show most attended by email.
We could have SEASON ticket holders
Then Patrons
Then most attended fans by etickets sales.
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I wonder if, based on etickets for 2021 and streams purchased if we can run reports to show most attended by email.
We could have SEASON ticket holders
Then Patrons
Then most attended fans by etickets sales.
That’s a great idea if it’s possible. I notice every time I buy an e-ticket I have to enter my name and address and card details etc each time so I’m guessing nothing stored. Be great if the tech was available at the club to produce data that would prioritise loyal fans.
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I wonder if, based on etickets for 2021 and streams purchased if we can run reports to show most attended by email.
We could have SEASON ticket holders
Then Patrons
Then most attended fans by etickets sales.
That’s a great idea if it’s possible. I notice every time I buy an e-ticket I have to enter my name and address and card details etc each time so I’m guessing nothing stored. Be great if the tech was available at the club to produce data that would prioritise loyal fans.
You are only allowed to store personal data and use it for the purposes you agreed with the owner of that data. So far the club hasn't asked so under GDPR rules it's a non starter
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Does anyone know who's dealing with it from TBC?
Not sure who's overseeing all of this at Trafford Council but here are the contact details for the three local councillors of the Hale Central Ward, in which the J Davidson Stadium is located:
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=178 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=178)
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=6310 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=6310)
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=169 (https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=169)
It may be worth contacting them for some enlightenment.
I will be contacting them for their views on their situation at the very least.
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I’ve emailed Trafford BC tonight, on their website (if it’s up to date), a Councillor Amy Whyte of Broadheath is listed as the Chair of the Safety at Sports grounds Sub-Committee so assume it’s her committee who are currently making the decisions about Moss Lane.
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=129
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I’ve emailed Trafford BC tonight, on their website (if it’s up to date), a Councillor Amy Whyte of Broadheath is listed as the Chair of the Safety at Sports grounds Sub-Committee so assume it’s her committee who are currently making the decisions about Moss Lane.
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=129
I did send an email to council leader Andrew Western late on Monday which got a very prompt reply on Tuesday morning (he is also a councillor in my ward, as I mentioned earlier in this thread).
His first response was that there was nothing vindictive about this, as safety was paramount, which is fair enough, but that he would consult the council officers for more information, as he wasn't on the relevant committee.
Soon, he came back with the response from the officers. Firstly he said that the inspection was the result of a routine visit when it was noticed that there were structural deficiencies and trip hazards. This obviously conflicts with the theory that there was an inside jealous snitch or whistleblower. I can't make any informed comment on this, but the two can't both be true.
The officers also made the point that they had not reduced the capacity at that point (to 2300 or so on Tuesday morning) but they were considering doing so - not because the ground had deteriorated over the weekend, but because access to the questionable areas was not properly controlled. I assume or surmise that the club may have voluntarily reduced the ground capacity, perhaps to show willing and to avoid a further reduction, but this proved to be in vain. This may just be speculation on my part, though.
I do appreciate Andrew Western's speedy response.
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Point still stands though, that there was a horrendous trip hazard in the GRE/pop side corner for many months and nothing done. How "routine" are these visits? Why now? Did they take their eye off the ball for quite a long period of time on that corner? And how can you go from 7,800 odd to 1,390 in a few months?
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Just a thought,we have the fanzone being built,do you think the visit could have been to see if that was going as planned and that was when they picked up on any problems???
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There needs to be a clear and unequivocal statement from Trafford and/or the club confirming the following
What prompted the inspection
The exact problems which caused the capacity to be cut 3 times.
What work is required to bring the capacity back to the 7k or so we were granted last year.
Having the ground in that state of closure last night was humiliating (and I'd have said the same if we won 5-0) and the supporters have a right to answers. There is no reason why none of the above can't be explained.
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There needs to be a clear and unequivocal statement from Trafford and/or the club confirming the following
What prompted the inspection
The exact problems which caused the capacity to be cut 3 times.
What work is required to bring the capacity back to the 7k or so we were granted last year.
Having the ground in that state of closure last night was humiliating (and I'd have said the same if we won 5-0) and the supporters have a right to answers. There is no reason why none of the above can't be explained.
this and we need it today
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I’m sure somebody at the club will make a statement to clear things up about who did what, when & where in the not too distant future.
It is a shame though that vital money was lost due to the crowd restrictions, As for the result, I wasn’t able to attend so I won’t comment on the outcome.
Hopefully the lads will get back to winning ways at Weymouth which I’m glad to say I will be able to get to.
Onwards & Upwards.
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We're all hurting, but I'm not sure I want to get into a witch hunt just yet.
If I was conducting the inspection myself I'd have huge concerns - the alternative (wall collapsing on fans) isn't worth bearing to think about.
Phil mentioned the words 'taking our medicine' with regard to events on the pitch last night - seems like it might apply off it too unfortunately.
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If the club need to fundraise for the work i am happy to donate,just let us know and set it all up like you did with the pitch fundraising
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Crowdfunding has worked well for us previously, but what's needed, with extreme urgency, is details about the exact works required and the timescales involved. This is a dire situation, it really is.
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I’ve emailed Trafford BC tonight, on their website (if it’s up to date), a Councillor Amy Whyte of Broadheath is listed as the Chair of the Safety at Sports grounds Sub-Committee so assume it’s her committee who are currently making the decisions about Moss Lane.
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=129
I did send an email to council leader Andrew Western late on Monday which got a very prompt reply on Tuesday morning (he is also a councillor in my ward, as I mentioned earlier in this thread).
His first response was that there was nothing vindictive about this, as safety was paramount, which is fair enough, but that he would consult the council officers for more information, as he wasn't on the relevant committee.
Soon, he came back with the response from the officers. Firstly he said that the inspection was the result of a routine visit when it was noticed that there were structural deficiencies and trip hazards. This obviously conflicts with the theory that there was an inside jealous snitch or whistleblower. I can't make any informed comment on this, but the two can't both be true.
The officers also made the point that they had not reduced the capacity at that point (to 2300 or so on Tuesday morning) but they were considering doing so - not because the ground had deteriorated over the weekend, but because access to the questionable areas was not properly controlled. I assume or surmise that the club may have voluntarily reduced the ground capacity, perhaps to show willing and to avoid a further reduction, but this proved to be in vain. This may just be speculation on my part, though.
I do appreciate Andrew Western's speedy response.
This bit about a ‘routine visit’ is the thing I don’t really buy. As we all know the spectating facilities at the ground have not fundamentally altered for about 20-25 years. Very much what has changed and why now I would want to know off Trafford. Why has this sudden sense of urgency and panic set in at the council?
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There was an open building site in the corner where the fanzone is ‘being built’, with people expected to walk through it to access the popular side. I reckon that was enough to start the ball rolling. Why that led to the whole golf road end needing shutting, I’ve no idea (unless the inspector noticed that the walls could fall off)
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I wonder what the Trafford BC SAG (Safety Advisory Group) would make of Moss Lane in 1936?
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/physical-training-1/query/altrincham (https://www.britishpathe.com/video/physical-training-1/query/altrincham)
In those days, if you tripped over at a football match you got up and continued to watch the game.
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Why that led to the whole golf road end needing shutting, I’ve no idea
Once inspectors attend a site due to a potential safety issue, they quite naturally start sniffing around and looking for other things. The worrying thing for me is that once an area has been deemed unsafe, it would require a very brave individual indeed to allow it to reopen unless the proper remedial work has taken place and been inspected. My fear, now this can of worms has been opened, is that it could potentially be a very long time and a whole lot of £££ before we are operating at anything like full capacity again. Whoever started this sh*tstorm knew that this would be the case.
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Firstly, I'm relieved that the 'traitor within our midst' 'name and shame' post that appears on another thread seems to have lost momentum. Whether someone who lives locally has complained I cannot say, but I very much doubt the self-scuppering theory has much evidence to support it.
Looking at the hard facts of this, it seems reasonable to suppose that the increased attendance figures we've enjoyed recently were sufficient to prompt the return visit of a safety officer. If they have then identified safety issues that need addressing, then whether we like it or not, they are right to insist such issues are dealt with and to impose restrictions in the meantime (for all we know recommendations made in the past may have been overlooked or 'put to one side'). Having said that, I do think that the discrepancy between the max and min capacity figures does need explaining, as it represents a very significant difference and begs the question: 'what did the second visit identify, that the first visit didn't?'. In any event, such a difference should have first been discussed within the confines of TBC's Planning/Safety offices, and once justified, with members of our Board, before any action was taken.
I fear given the speed with which these changes have come about, that either has happened.
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Unfortunately whether we like it or not we're in a position of a massively reduced capacity for the foreseeable future. The question is how do we move forward?
The way I see it we have two options
1. Patch up what we've got
2. Start on the proposed ground redevelopment based on the design that was circulated previously
Obviously either approach needs financing it's more of a question of how much.
I'd rather have us play with a reduced capacity than hitting the national headlines for an incident where supporters have been injured.
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Unfortunately whether we like it or not we're in a position of a massively reduced capacity for the foreseeable future. The question is how do we move forward?
The way I see it we have two options
1. Patch up what we've got
2. Start on the proposed ground redevelopment based on the design that was circulated previously
Obviously either approach needs financing it's more of a question of how much.
I'd rather have us play with a reduced capacity than hitting the national headlines for an incident where supporters have been injured.
If the fanzone is anything to go by, the proposed ground redevelopment will be a shambles
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#rowleyout
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To go ahead with any new build planning permission will be required (think months)
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Unfortunately whether we like it or not we're in a position of a massively reduced capacity for the foreseeable future. The question is how do we move forward?
The way I see it we have two options
1. Patch up what we've got
2. Start on the proposed ground redevelopment based on the design that was circulated previously
Obviously either approach needs financing it's more of a question of how much.
I'd rather have us play with a reduced capacity than hitting the national headlines for an incident where supporters have been injured.
If the fanzone is anything to go by, the proposed ground redevelopment will be a shambles
I don't know what I was expecting (probably something resembling the artist's impressions we were given), but I remember seeing it for the first time and thinking 'WTF?' - I don't have a particularly creative mind, so hopefully once it all hangs together it'll look OK. Not the sort of thing that looks great if done on the cheap.
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Unfortunately whether we like it or not we're in a position of a massively reduced capacity for the foreseeable future. The question is how do we move forward?
The way I see it we have two options
1. Patch up what we've got
2. Start on the proposed ground redevelopment based on the design that was circulated previously
Obviously either approach needs financing it's more of a question of how much.
I'd rather have us play with a reduced capacity than hitting the national headlines for an incident where supporters have been injured.
If the fanzone is anything to go by, the proposed ground redevelopment will be a shambles
I don't know what I was expecting (probably something resembling the artist's impressions we were given), but I remember seeing it for the first time and thinking 'WTF?' - I don't have a particularly creative mind, so hopefully once it all hangs together it'll look OK. Not the sort of thing that looks great if done on the cheap.
Nice video, shame about the eyesore:
https://www.altrinchamfc.com/news/altrincham-fc-define-architects-and-libero-launch-the-fan-zone (https://www.altrinchamfc.com/news/altrincham-fc-define-architects-and-libero-launch-the-fan-zone)
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I think that Trafford have looked out our big increases in gates, and decided to do a safety check accordingly. They may have reduced capacity prior to the check, then reduced it again on further investigation.
All the increased support has led to this, but the club are playing good football since Phil, Neil and their squad arrived, and the council are probrably just doing their job. Lessons were learnt at Hillsborough and other grounds, and responsibility falls within the borough council and the club. If someone was injured, or worse still killed, both of these would be liable.
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Steve's comment above is probably somewhere near the mark. As a Building Control Surveyor of 35 years I know how these things work. The Local Authority are responsible for the designated stadia in their area, and would normally inspect a number of times a year, including during performance inspections (when a match is on). Now it is quite possible that we were left relatively alone while our gates hovered around a 1200 average, with a smaller median as the average is bumped up by the bigger games. Our bigger gates will not have gone unnoticed and I would expect, have generated the need for a fuller inspection. It is not just the facilities, it is how we manage the event, stewarding, announcements, crowd control etc. were they at the Solihull game when that pillock ran on? They will certainly know about it.
As it is usually Building Control who do SASG (not always, they could use consultants), but BC will be inspecting the Fans Zone; did the visiting Surveyor notice things and pass it on? He would have a duty to if concerned.
If there are trip hazards on the terracing then it is dangerous, a different matter to street potholes. Persons falling suddenly amongst a crowd say celebrating a goal will cause others to fall over them too, it could lead to a serious incident. As for structural concerns obviously they would need to be assessed very closely, that might be from a follow up visit with a qualified Structural Engineer, hence the second reduction. That's usually how it would work. All speculation obviously but it would follow logically.
The ground is very tired and the only real surprise to me is that we got away with this condition for as long as we did.
I do however not understand how we were awarded the larger capacity last year, it doesn't stack up at all.
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What I surmise may be the trip hazard at the Golf Road / Pop Side Junction has existed since I was Safety Officer.
The parlous state of Golf Road Terracing, in places, and the external wall, I would imagine may be related to the trees growing between the two and regularly cut back, possibly at the behest of the Highways Inspectors
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As a professional in the area, SW will know more about this in general than me, but the reply I had from Trafford does say that the revisit on Saturday highlighted problems with the "stewarding and management of the ground" while there was a reduced capacity rather than further structural problems. It was written before the reduction to 1390 capacity was announced,
It also said that Trafford were "keen to support the club to get the necessary measures completed in time for some big games over the Christmas holiday period." Let's hope they are.
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Point taken on 'trip hazards' and potential for a serious incident as a result. However someone could trip if their shoelaces are untied for example causing the same incident with same severity. Ditto someone who has had a few pints
Of course eliminating trip hazards reduces risk, but by no means prevents it. Hence my scepticism with all the H&S overkill in terms of what constitutes a serious hazard. Unless we ban shoelaces and beer from the ground, then the risk of 'serious incidents' remains, albeit slightly less risk than that created by uneven flags... ::)
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The club doesn’t have control over shoelaces, they do face control over the ground.
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The club doesn’t have control over shoelaces, they do face control over the ground.
Exactly......a lot of it is about indemnity from blame and not necessarily about prevention.....you can fall and hurt yourself as long as the fall is your own fault
Let's hope it gets sorted soon and TMBC are only concerned with the significant issues where risk is real and we are not being unduly held to ransom
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Just as a point of interest as I wasn’t able to be at Moss Lane last Tuesday, were the radio Robins and Alty TV crew allowed in the popular side gantry to cover the match.
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Just as a point of interest as I wasn’t able to be at Moss Lane last Tuesday, were the radio Robins and Alty TV crew allowed in the popular side gantry to cover the match.
Yes but they were using a ladder up rather than the stairs which looked even more dangerous
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Just as a point of interest as I wasn’t able to be at Moss Lane last Tuesday, were the radio Robins and Alty TV crew allowed in the popular side gantry to cover the match.
Yes but they were using a ladder up rather than the stairs which looked even more dangerous
The BBC erected their own scaffold tower and provided their own ladder. Alty TV broadcast from the gantry and Radio Robins were relocated from the Press Box to the front of the main stand to allow/accommodate local radio requirements.
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Just as a point of interest as I wasn’t able to be at Moss Lane last Tuesday, were the radio Robins and Alty TV crew allowed in the popular side gantry to cover the match.
Yes but they were using a ladder up rather than the stairs which looked even more dangerous
The BBC erected their own scaffold tower and provided their own ladder. Alty TV broadcast from the gantry and Radio Robins were relocated from the Press Box to the front of the main stand to allow/accommodate local radio requirements.
Even worse from BBC.
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Cheers for the updates.
Maybe we could all pitch up with a tower scaffold and a ladder..
Sounds like a job for Tommo 🤣
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Firstly, I'm relieved that the 'traitor within our midst' 'name and shame' post that appears on another thread seems to have lost momentum. Whether someone who lives locally has complained I cannot say, but I very much doubt the self-scuppering theory has much evidence to support it.
You can be relieved as much as you like but I was right though wasn’t I?
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Any idea who?
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Firstly, I'm relieved that the 'traitor within our midst' 'name and shame' post that appears on another thread seems to have lost momentum. Whether someone who lives locally has complained I cannot say, but I very much doubt the self-scuppering theory has much evidence to support it.
You can be relieved as much as you like but I was right though wasn’t I?
How were you right exactly? As far as I am aware, the conspiracy theorists on here have provided no evidence to support whatever claim it is they are making. The statement issued by the Board today refers to an anonymous email sent to TMBC, nothing more.
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Firstly, I'm relieved that the 'traitor within our midst' 'name and shame' post that appears on another thread seems to have lost momentum. Whether someone who lives locally has complained I cannot say, but I very much doubt the self-scuppering theory has much evidence to support it.
You can be relieved as much as you like but I was right though wasn’t I?
How were you right exactly? As far as I am aware, the conspiracy theorists on here have provided no evidence to support whatever claim it is they are making. The statement issued by the Board today refers to an anonymous email sent to TMBC, nothing more.
Ok they haven’t explicitly said ‘And this email was sent by an insider with connections to the club’ (and nor would they, they don’t want to start a witch hunt as that’s rightly not going to be their focus) but you don’t have to read between the lines very hard to realise that is the clear inference of that part of the statement. You can believe what you choose but I have no doubts from what I’ve heard and now read that the email to Trafford that kick started this process and led to the Gateshead debacle, has come from an individual who has volunteered and/or worked for the club. It is an inside job and that person in time must answer for their actions.
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Any idea who?
I have suspicions but, as Mrs Trellis alludes to, I’m not too interested in finding out who as it probably doesn’t do anyone any good and it will all come out in the wash anyway. These things always do and we’ve probably got more pressing matters at hand now like assuring the board with any work or sh*t shifting that needs doing.
Played a large part in costing us £80-100k though so I won’t forget that.
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Credit to the club for an excellent statement.
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
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The neighbour would have had to have quite a detailed knowledge of the infrastructure of the stadia though.
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Seems to me like a few people on here believe they know the identity of the whistle-blower.
I'm completely in the dark.
It's all a bit of a mess isn't it?
I think it's still something we should just try to get past as best we can.
Having said that it certainly would be nice to know who it was.
At the end of the day though it's more about pulling together out on the pitch and in the stands - at least those stands we're still allowed into!
So with that in mind, let's hope we can get a favorable result today to lighten the mood on here somewhat eh?
Come on you Super Robins!
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Good communication from the board at last.
Pleased to see their is a plan to address things.
I'm looking forward to seeing some progress by next weekend.
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Of course the ground's a mess. Everyone knows that. But the reason the council made an inspection in the first place was because of the anonymous tip-off. The idea that a casual visitor would feel so strongly about some loose paving that they'd make an anonymous complaint to the council about it is completely absurd.
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I agree the ground obviously needs attention and the club presented ambitious plans to be done in stages , the whistle-blower has caused uneeded panic, lose of income and lots of stress and hassle for everyone associated with the club. It seems they wrote to the council out of jealously or bitterness and need pulling up. A sneakey email is what it seems until more information is revealed. We can all agree the ground is not perfect and brush it under the carpet but the way this happened stinks.
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
FFS........glad I won't be petrified attending Moss Lane in the future
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
I wasn't aware that the J Davidson Stadium was located above the San Andreas Fault.
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It’s global warming.. Greta Thumberg told me…
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Unacceptable level of danger my arse. Anyway being honest I don't care who it was . Things happen for a reason and I think after the intial inconvenience it will be a good thing. It may also spark much needed conversation about doing more with the ground in particular the pop side which it would be amazing to rebuild it more into the car park if ever possible . Up the reds . Long live Bill long live parky
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Unacceptable level of danger my arse. Anyway being honest I don't care who it was . Things happen for a reason and I think after the intial inconvenience it will be a good thing. It may also spark much needed conversation about doing more with the ground in particular the pop side which it would be amazing to rebuild it more into the car park if ever possible . Up the reds . Long live Bill long live parky
Bar the first six words I agree totally.
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
Sounds like what a grass would say.
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
Sounds like what a grass would say.
You say grass I say whistle blower.
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
Sounds like what a grass would say.
You say grass I say whistle blower.
You say grass, I say blow! 😉 😂😂😂😂😐
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Whatever happened to this enterprise?
http://www.altyfans.co.uk/index.php?topic=20479.msg237700#msg237700 (http://www.altyfans.co.uk/index.php?topic=20479.msg237700#msg237700)
JOIN THE ALTY GROUND COMMITTEE!
« on: September 03, 2015, 10:18:03 PM »
Peter Foster writes, "As Grahame Rowley mentioned in last week's programme, the Club recognises that there may be many areas within the Football Ground where there are improvements and changes required, both small and large, that may be beneficial to the Club and its supporters. This is probably to be expected after 100 years, however the Club would like to set-up a small group who will collate and review these areas of development so we can see what improvements can be made and how these can be done without any significant impact on the playing budget.
To establish this group we would like to get three or four volunteers from the Club's supporters who are interested in this topic and who would be prepared to give up a small amount of their time. Hopefully, we can get representation from both terrace and stand-based supporters. Those involved in the group will be Neil Faulkner, our Safety Officer, Tony Mossman, and the ‘volunteers’.
If you are interested in getting involved in this initiative please e-mail the club".
office@altrinchamfootballclub.co.uk
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I think what happened was a double relegation followed by significant belt tightening.
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Unacceptable level of danger my arse. Anyway being honest I don't care who it was . Things happen for a reason and I think after the intial inconvenience it will be a good thing. It may also spark much needed conversation about doing more with the ground in particular the pop side which it would be amazing to rebuild it more into the car park if ever possible . Up the reds . Long live Bill long live parky
Bar the first six words I agree totally.
I have been in more danger on a Thursday night in Chequers dancing to reel to reel 😂😂😜😜
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An extended pop side and a covered away end plus an upgrade to the toilets and food outlets would be all we'd ever need. The total redevelopment plan is not needed for donkeys years imvho.
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An extended pop side and a covered away end plus an upgrade to the toilets and food outlets would be all we'd ever need. The total redevelopment plan is not needed for donkeys years imvho.
totally agree but don't cover the away end gives us the advantage in keeping the noise levels down
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
You may have a p0int, and in hindsight, it is a pity that someone didn't report rubbish built up under the stand at Valley Parade to Bradford council in 1985 (whether they'd have done anything is another matter, but at least they'd have known). The trouble is, people tend not to think there's an issue until something happens, and it's easy enough to imagine what might potentially happen.
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
You’re in danger at every possible time in your life.
At home? Gas explosion
In the car? Car accident
Walking down the road? Hit by an asteroid
If you think some wonky walls, loose concrete and non running water to the new fan zone is “totally unacceptable” I’d suggest burying your head under a rock forever
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That's dangerous too! 😊
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
You’re in danger at every possible time in your life.
At home? Gas explosion
In the car? Car accident
Walking down the road? Hit by an asteroid
If you think some wonky walls, loose concrete and non running water to the new fan zone is “totally unacceptable” I’d suggest burying your head under a rock forever
Hmm....I wonder if the ground got struck by a massive asteroid, could we get a grant to rebuild it ?
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
You’re in danger at every possible time in your life.
At home? Gas explosion
In the car? Car accident
Walking down the road? Hit by an asteroid
If you think some wonky walls, loose concrete and non running water to the new fan zone is “totally unacceptable” I’d suggest burying your head under a rock forever
Are you a structural engineer? What experience do.you have in the field?
I am quite happy to take my own risks in my personal life. When you're talking about public safety a very different mindset is required.
As for burying my head under a rock, perhaps that's what you have been doing as clearly the horrors of Valley Parade, Heysel and Hillsborough have passed you by. Don't come back with "it's a totally different scale', we can refer to a collapsed wall at Birmingham City leading to the death of a 15 year old. Luckily nobody was seriously hurt at Caernarfon when a wall collapsed. There will be others I can't recall right now.
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Hmm....I wonder if the ground got struck by a massive asteroid, could we get a grant to rebuild it ?
Probably not, but at least Cult might be able to see the corner flag from his seat again 🤣
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There is only one documented occurrence of a person being hit buy an asteroid (and that wasn't in this country)
Football ground infrastructure may fail if nothing is done to maintain it, potentially to the detriment of supporterslimited to
Cars result in the deaths of 1700 people in the UK each year.
What we are looking at is risk to personal health. What are the hazards that can be seen at the JD Stadium and what is the probability that the hazard will come in to play.
Well I'm guessing the asteroid strike has been discounted because they're not insisting on us all wearing tin helmets.
The car one is an ongoing issue and isn't limited to football supporters. If traffic is seen to represent a health hazard you can expect more yellow lines and 20mph speed limits around the ground in an attempt to manage the situation. If crowds continue to grow I would think this will become inevitable.
That just leaves the ground and specifically the areas populated by supporters. Trying to eliminate all risks is futile but nevertheless where hazards are discovered the likelihood of them causing harm has to be evaluated and mitigation of some sort introduced.
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There is only one documented occurrence of a person being hit buy an asteroid (and that wasn't in this country)
Football ground infrastructure may fail if nothing is done to maintain it, potentially to the detriment of supporterslimited to
Cars result in the deaths of 1700 people in the UK each year.
What we are looking at is risk to personal health. What are the hazards that can be seen at the JD Stadium and what is the probability that the hazard will come in to play.
Well I'm guessing the asteroid strike has been discounted because they're not insisting on us all wearing tin helmets.
The car one is an ongoing issue and isn't limited to football supporters. If traffic is seen to represent a health hazard you can expect more yellow lines and 20mph speed limits around the ground in an attempt to manage the situation. If crowds continue to grow I would think this will become inevitable.
That just leaves the ground and specifically the areas populated by supporters. Trying to eliminate all risks is futile but nevertheless where hazards are discovered the likelihood of them causing harm has to be evaluated and mitigation of some sort introduced.
Put much better than myself, this is why I'm not ruling out a neighbour unless we're specifically told otherwise - seems more conceivable they'd have asked them to assess the traffic risk and they've ended up coming in, doing a full assessment, and the whole thing has snowballed from there.
Like I said, maybe I'm being naive - I'd rather believe it was a miserable old sod than one of our own.
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
You’re in danger at every possible time in your life.
At home? Gas explosion
In the car? Car accident
Walking down the road? Hit by an asteroid
If you think some wonky walls, loose concrete and non running water to the new fan zone is “totally unacceptable” I’d suggest burying your head under a rock forever
That really is a bit of a daft thing to say. Leaving out the third item, which in fairness there would be no control over, the other two chances are mitigated by safety regulations............rather like what is going on here. No one likes it or welcomes it but it certainly isn't petty. Once a risk comes to light, to ignore it is negligent, possibly criminally so. What must be done must be done.
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
You’re in danger at every possible time in your life.
At home? Gas explosion
In the car? Car accident
Walking down the road? Hit by an asteroid
If you think some wonky walls, loose concrete and non running water to the new fan zone is “totally unacceptable” I’d suggest burying your head under a rock forever
Are you a structural engineer? What experience do.you have in the field?
I am quite happy to take my own risks in my personal life. When you're talking about public safety a very different mindset is required.
As for burying my head under a rock, perhaps that's what you have been doing as clearly the horrors of Valley Parade, Heysel and Hillsborough have passed you by. Don't come back with "it's a totally different scale', we can refer to a collapsed wall at Birmingham City leading to the death of a 15 year old. Luckily nobody was seriously hurt at Caernarfon when a wall collapsed. There will be others I can't recall right now.
Cup match at Canal Street a few years back; Alty v Huddersfield in 1990.
Personally I might be more at risk crossing the golf course to get to the ground, but that doesn't mean others won't be at risk. And in any case, if there's rules about it, it's irrelevant what I might feel about it personally, we just have to go along with it, same as with the Barking (mad) and Dagenham business last season. At the end of the day, there's probably been a lot of new people coming to the ground this season, so I suppose there was always a chance something like this would happen.
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
You’re in danger at every possible time in your life.
At home? Gas explosion
In the car? Car accident
Walking down the road? Hit by an asteroid
If you think some wonky walls, loose concrete and non running water to the new fan zone is “totally unacceptable” I’d suggest burying your head under a rock forever
Are you a structural engineer? What experience do.you have in the field?
I am quite happy to take my own risks in my personal life. When you're talking about public safety a very different mindset is required.
As for burying my head under a rock, perhaps that's what you have been doing as clearly the horrors of Valley Parade, Heysel and Hillsborough have passed you by. Don't come back with "it's a totally different scale', we can refer to a collapsed wall at Birmingham City leading to the death of a 15 year old. Luckily nobody was seriously hurt at Caernarfon when a wall collapsed. There will be others I can't recall right now.
Bet your fun at full-capacity football matches.
Did you write the email? Seem to be the only person happy with the disruption
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Maybe I'm being naive, but it reads to me like a complaint from a disgruntled neighbour to the ground.
Sometimes people want to ignore the most obvious answer. And let's face it, the work needs doing.
I think you are being extremely naive, which is ironic given how quick you are to pick up on what you perceive as naivety in others.
Why on earth would a disgruntled neighbour complain about the state of the terracing on the Golf Rd? How would they even know about it? The statement from the board makes it perfectly clear that the complaint came from someone they hoped would have come to them first. That would hardly apply to a disgruntled neighbour.
When have I suggested naivety in others? Genuine question if you think I've been a bit unreasonable in the past, I'm always happy to hold my hand up.
For me, the statement ('wish they'd come to us first') doesn't sound like an insider with an axe to grind - it reads like someone that's turned up to a game and then complained - we all have members within our friend and family circles that are only happy when moaning.
I don't sign up to this 'inside knowledge' either - any visit from a member of the council with two funtional eyes would have identified the ground is a mess.
Re: signed off fine at the start of the season - responding to a complaint means you have to be shown to be doing something, not a routine inspection. Of course the outcome would be different.
Sorry for being the voice of reason and I'll be sad to see that it's an inside job if I am indeed wrong.
Somebody spots something wrong and notifies the council / whomever.
Council confirms safety work needs doing, thus confirming that we Alty fans were in an unacceptable level of danger.
Whomever spotted the defects and started the repair works, I thank you. You did the right thing whether we like it or not.
You’re in danger at every possible time in your life.
At home? Gas explosion
In the car? Car accident
Walking down the road? Hit by an asteroid
If you think some wonky walls, loose concrete and non running water to the new fan zone is “totally unacceptable” I’d suggest burying your head under a rock forever
Are you a structural engineer? What experience do.you have in the field?
I am quite happy to take my own risks in my personal life. When you're talking about public safety a very different mindset is required.
As for burying my head under a rock, perhaps that's what you have been doing as clearly the horrors of Valley Parade, Heysel and Hillsborough have passed you by. Don't come back with "it's a totally different scale', we can refer to a collapsed wall at Birmingham City leading to the death of a 15 year old. Luckily nobody was seriously hurt at Caernarfon when a wall collapsed. There will be others I can't recall right now.
Bet your fun at full-capacity football matches.
Did you write the email? Seem to be the only person happy with the disruption
I've no problem at all with full houses, being 'em on. A full house at Moss Lane is a couple of thousand isn't it? Let's get it back up to where it was.
No I did not write the email.
I am not happy that the club has had this cruddy disruption, loss of income and unexpected outgoings. Previous boards / inspections / whatever went badly wrong, I am happy that this excellent board have taken the correct steps.I
Time to look to the near future when the fixes have been done.
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I was at the Club tonight and Lawrence gave a fairly candid response to question over the TBC issue, others will give a better resume than myself, but apparently we've had to rewrite a lot of the procedures, as well as repairs. We basically missed the deadline this week to return the paperwork for assessment. Thus no change in the capacity tomorrow. If all goes well with the review of our procedures and repairs we should be at 50% capacity for next game and full capacity for Xmas games. That's from the horses mouth.
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I was at the Club tonight and Lawrence gave a fairly candid response to question over the TBC issue, others will give a better resume than myself, but apparently we've had to rewrite a lot of the procedures, as well as repairs. We basically missed the deadline this week to return the paperwork for assessment. Thus no change in the capacity tomorrow. If all goes well with the review of our procedures and repairs we should be at 50% capacity for next game and full capacity for Xmas games. That's from the horses mouth.
Although nobody currently knows what our 'full capacity' comprises.
I'll be surprised/delighted if we have anywhere near an authorised official capacity of circa 5,000 for the respective home fixtures against Wrexham and County.
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It was toxic in there today. Security & stewards from all over the North West,who were rude and chaotic in their manner. No interest at all in the club.
I was moved 4 times in the first half and wasn't blocking any exit or at the front.
It is so sad and this has all come from a letter within the club. The coward should have the bottle to identify themselves. This is killing us. I am not going back until we are allowed over 3k because I am that angry/upset about it all.
That game should have been switched and any others should until this shower of sh*t passes.
The terraces look as if they have had some pointing work done and that's it.
I was told the security is costing us thousands. Really upsetting.
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It was toxic in there today. Security & stewards from all over the North West,who were rude and chaotic in their manner. No interest at all in the club.
I was moved 4 times in the first half and wasn't blocking any exit or at the front.
It is so sad and this has all come from a letter within the club. The coward should have the bottle to identify themselves. This is killing us. I am not going back until we are allowed over 3k because I am that angry/upset about it all.
That game should have been switched and any others should until this shower of sh*t passes.
The terraces look as if they have had some pointing work done and that's it.
I was told the security is costing us thousands. Really upsetting.
This is absolutely spot on. Agree with all of it.
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Agree 100% too.
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It was toxic in there today. Security & stewards from all over the North West,who were rude and chaotic in their manner. No interest at all in the club.
I was moved 4 times in the first half and wasn't blocking any exit or at the front.
It is so sad and this has all come from a letter within the club. The coward should have the bottle to identify themselves. This is killing us. I am not going back until we are allowed over 3k because I am that angry/upset about it all.
That game should have been switched and any others should until this shower of sh*t passes.
The terraces look as if they have had some pointing work done and that's it.
I was told the security is costing us thousands. Really upsetting.
Going forward the club should advertise for there own stewards and SIA staff now they are paying people. probably to short notice before. The good thing about using outside agencies is if you need more they can supply them at short notice, But i do think the club should have their own core of trained stewards and SIA licensed staff.
As per the safety procedures when i was Safety officer i had to update them and rewrite a lot took me most of the summer.
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It was toxic in there today. Security & stewards from all over the North West,who were rude and chaotic in their manner. No interest at all in the club.
I was moved 4 times in the first half and wasn't blocking any exit or at the front.
It is so sad and this has all come from a letter within the club. The coward should have the bottle to identify themselves. This is killing us. I am not going back until we are allowed over 3k because I am that angry/upset about it all.
That game should have been switched and any others should until this shower of sh*t passes.
The terraces look as if they have had some pointing work done and that's it.
I was told the security is costing us thousands. Really upsetting.
Going forward the club should advertise for there own stewards and SIA staff now they are paying people. probably to short notice before. The good thing about using outside agencies is if you need more they can supply them at short notice, But i do think the club should have their own core of trained stewards and SIA licensed staff.
As per the safety procedures when i was Safety officer i had to update them and rewrite a lot took me most of the summer.
Totally agree.
I would suggest one of the Director's role should be to concentrate on ground safety and stewarding.
Pay someone to come and do in-house training to those who want to be there as Stewards, not people who love the power and create drama.
We need to have our own team of security and Steward's moving forward. More of them and trained to the standard required.
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I have posted on the Facebook page . The way I was treated today by a steward was abhorrent
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Surely the security will be an ongoing requirement?
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Surely the security will be an ongoing requirement?
absolutely it will be part of the changes required for full attendance . We need it no doubt about that . But to be manhandled for no reason is not acceptable .
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I agree with most things said. I'm a season ticket holder but will not be attending again with these restrictions, stewards telling people to move all the time and into areas where there was no room. AS someone shouted what hapend to distancing. Cramming people into such a small area is NOT a safe approach , Why are we no longer allowed along the perimeter fence, have never seen this present any problems before. Absolutely pissed off with it, it is costing us in every way on and off the pitch
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Surely the security will be an ongoing requirement?
absolutely it will be part of the changes required for full attendance . We need it no doubt about that . But to be manhandled for no reason is not acceptable .
He was a proper nob.
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It was toxic in there today. Security & stewards from all over the North West,who were rude and chaotic in their manner. No interest at all in the club.
I was moved 4 times in the first half and wasn't blocking any exit or at the front.
It is so sad and this has all come from a letter within the club. The coward should have the bottle to identify themselves. This is killing us. I am not going back until we are allowed over 3k because I am that angry/upset about it all.
That game should have been switched and any others should until this shower of sh*t passes.
The terraces look as if they have had some pointing work done and that's it.
I was told the security is costing us thousands. Really upsetting.
I very much doubt the league would agree on switching the fixture.
They wouldn’t let us Postpone a game due to COVID ffs
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I agree with most things said. I'm a season ticket holder but will not be attending again with these restrictions, stewards telling people to move all the time and into areas where there was no room. AS someone shouted what hapend to distancing. Cramming people into such a small area is NOT a safe approach , Why are we no longer allowed along the perimeter fence, have never seen this present any problems before. Absolutely pissed off with it, it is costing us in every way on and off the pitch
I completely agree with this post . Very very sad times
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It was toxic in there today. Security & stewards from all over the North West,who were rude and chaotic in their manner. No interest at all in the club.
I was moved 4 times in the first half and wasn't blocking any exit or at the front.
It is so sad and this has all come from a letter within the club. The coward should have the bottle to identify themselves. This is killing us. I am not going back until we are allowed over 3k because I am that angry/upset about it all.
That game should have been switched and any others should until this shower of sh*t passes.
The terraces look as if they have had some pointing work done and that's it.
I was told the security is costing us thousands. Really upsetting.
spot on this mate
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The treatment of the Alty fans today was an utter disgrace and I shan't be going again until this is sorted; having discussed how things played out with others who were there, I expect they will feel the same way this evening.
Today:
i) saw stewards repeatedly threatening to remove a group of lads from the ground for standing too near to a fence
ii) saw a steward manhandle a chap who questioned how he could move to the area by the CH that was already packed
iii) saw stewards instruct people into areas where close contact was inevitable and merely shrug when this was pointed out
The atmosphere where I was standing was febrile.
The stewarding today was over-the-top and deeply unpleasant.
I've experienced some shabby treatment when I've travelled to away grounds, but honestly, I don't think I've ever been as pissed off as I was today at ML.
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The treatment of the Alty fans today was an utter disgrace and I shan't be going again until this is sorted; having discussed how things played out with others who were there, I expect they will feel the same way this evening.
Today:
i) saw stewards repeatedly threatening to remove a group of lads from the ground for standing too near to a fence
ii) saw a steward manhandle a chap who questioned how he could move to the area by the CH that was already packed
iii) saw stewards instruct people into areas where close contact was inevitable and merely shrug when this was pointed out
The atmosphere where I was standing was febrile.
The stewarding today was over-the-top and deeply unpleasant.
I've experienced some shabby treatment when I've travelled to away grounds, but honestly, I don't think I've ever been as pissed off as I was today at ML.
it was myself that was manhandled for simply asking how I could stand in an already full area . I fully concur with your post . I have never seen anything like it before at moss lane
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It feels as if TBC have done the best they can to ruin my life.
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Really disappointed with the Stewards, I asked my 86 year old Dad to sit in the stand (he's usually on the pop side) to avoid being man handled, I was embarrassed with myself for getting angry and confrontational when the Steward pushed me in the back (I did react, and he backed off). Everything about the day was disappointing, yet it's my club, in my heart and I will be there for every game.
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Really disappointed with the Stewards, I asked my 86 year old Dad to sit in the stand (he's usually on the pop side) to avoid being man handled, I was embarrassed with myself for getting angry and confrontational when the Steward pushed me in the back (I did react, and he backed off). Everything about the day was disappointing, yet it's my club, in my heart and I will be there for every game.
there is a theme here of stewards laying hands on people . Disgusting
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As the ground safety Officer I am concerned to read reports of ‘heavy handed’ stewarding. Please bring your concerns to me and I will do my best to address them. I’m the gentleman at the ground with safety Officer on the back.
As a club official it is not my place to detail why things have had to change at the ground.
Hopefully the club will officially post more information to explain the new restrictions.
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As the ground safety Officer I am concerned to read reports of ‘heavy handed’ stewarding. Please bring your concerns to me and I will do my best to address them. I’m the gentleman at the ground with safety Officer on the back.
As a club official it is not my place to detail why things have had to change at the ground.
Hopefully the club will officially post more information to explain the new restrictions.
thanks Nigel I will come and talk to you happily at the next home game . To be clear for me the new restrictions are not the issue it's the way they are being implemented . I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall at the team brief for these stewards as it felt like we were some type of enemy
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It feels as if TBC have done the best they can to ruin my life.
It’s just about the only thing they’re best at. 😡
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Wayne, please come and seek me out. For a Saturday home game I’m at the ground by 1000 and you’ll find me in the bar after the game. Usually by 1730.
My final words to the stewards at the briefing delivered at 1245: be friendly, fair but firm.
TMBC wants to see a more professional stewarding team. So that’s what I’m trying to deliver.
For those that are able to attend away games, you cannot fail to notice the difference between how the stewards behaved at some grounds and what used to happen at J Davidson stadium.
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We had been pointing out that our volunteer stewards need help for years and it has been notably better this season so I welcome any further updates to our safety processes and the increase in our stewarding budget. I didn't have any problems with the stewarding yesterday but I have personally experienced heavy handed stewarding at Halifax this season, so I hope that we can work with a company that is a good combination of friendly, fair and firm when required. It would be good to keep our volunteer stewards on as liaisons who can communicate with fans first and foremost, backed up by the muscle.
We're at a bit of a crossroads, here. We're being asked to up our game and professionalise our match day operation but I think an element of how it was is what made us attractive to the floating fan. We're all used to turning up and effectively having free run the ground. Walk where you want, stand where you want, hang around and have a chat on the Golf Road End for 20 minutes after the game. I can see this being phased out in future and it's going to be hard for us to take, and 'un-Alty' to many.
I don't believe it has been made clear what structural work we are actually doing. Please can we have this explained to us in a simple list. Phrases like 'extensive ground repairs' and 'new operating practices' tell a story but don't give us the nuts and bolts and leave this situation up to interpretation, which is a problem at the moment.
What I don't understand is - what on earth are they actually checking for when they come and take a look at the ground for a capacity review? How are these things not picked up in the pre-season? Do they do a yearly safety check for these sorts of things? How have we as a club not gotten on top of this before the fact? Hindsight is wonderful and I do wonder that, if given the opportunity again, the club would have opted to make these improvements ahead of starting the Fan Zone project. It does feel like we attempted to put a jewel in a crown of thorns.
Make no mistake though, the degradation of the ground starts well before our current leadership got into their stride. Sports Hall development aside, Moss Lane has been a tired old football ground for as long as I can vividly remember, which would be around 2003 or so.
Zooming out of these past few weeks and looking at our long term progression has helped me to feel a lot better about the situation. If any business experiences rapid growth then it will magnify the weaknesses that need work, we aren't a superclub and our growth isn't going to be without challenges. I do believe we are working hard on it and I know that we will learn a lot from this, in a number of ways.
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Excellent post.
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Seconded.
The way things stand at the moment I did wonder if the match would be called off yesterday due to storm damage.
I know there's a plan but there's a lot to be done to get the ground to a state where i's worthy of holding football league games.
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Brilliant post, summarised up our current situation so well.
Give me the current situation over any of the successive relegation seasons or ‘You’re going down like a lead balloon’ from the Stafford Fans on the opening day a few years back. We are 12th in the Conference and will still be a Conference club next season, if we can sort ourselves out off the field too the momentum the club will have can really take us places.
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Thanks for your frank and open post, Nigel. I'm fully behind what the current Board has set out to do and I acknowledge that not everything will run smoothly on the road to achieving their/our aims. However, its also worth mentioning that I have felt the last 3 home matches to be among the least enjoyable in 30-plus years of attending ML.
As has been mentioned in an earlier post, we have to be careful not to lose some of what is at the heart of the Club. I think for a great many of our fans, the freedom and trust that we enjoy are a major factor in choosing to support football at this level. Yes, we should be ambitious, but we must be mindful of the consequences of becoming something other than what we would like to be.
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Some excellent posts on this thread today...
I think it's possible to have the modern, professional approach to our facilities and crowd management yet still have a friendly, welcoming ground. I'm not expert on stewarding but I'd hazard a guess that with a more modern, better laid out stadium some of the stewarding issues would be reduced somewhat.
In a way, we are victims of our own success but as others have alluded to, the ground is archaic in a lot of places and time has finally run out. I think the communication could have been a lot better at times on this whole matter but equally this current board has made so many changes for the better and I back them to get this right too.
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I don't believe it has been made clear what structural work we are actually doing. Please can we have this explained to us in a simple list. Phrases like 'extensive ground repairs' and 'new operating practices' tell a story but don't give us the nuts and bolts and leave this situation up to interpretation, which is a problem at the moment.
Spot on.
Some transparency and details wouldn't exactly go amiss.
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Having worked in several stadiums over the years since leaving as Safety Officer in 2011 the J Davidson Stadium is one of the hardest to steward, No CCTV , no separate entry into different stands from outside etc,
I said when we got promoted after they started the two down from the league the stewarding should have gone more professional then due to some big clubs coming down, York, Grimsby and Wrexham but we just mainly used Volunteer stewards and depending on police information if we needed to get extra or even a police presence .
Its always been a hard role for someone to do as a Volunteer safety officer i regular used clock up 30/40 hours with matches including hosted MUFC reserves games most weeks and had first Anti Glazier protest at one of them. Risk assessments to TBC and GMP plus liaising with other clubs.
We had stewards trained to NVQ 2 and 3 in spectator safety (probably more watch the games than steward them that hold this qualification)
Myself i even completed the NVQ level 4 Spectator safety management the highest you can get,
I will gladly help the club any way i can and have been in regular contact with Bill.
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I don’t think we will necessarily turn into a Rushden type club/atmosphere. Once this sorts itself out a bit it’ll alleviate a number of problems. With so many fans and stewards in such a small space there would obviously be much more points of contact that say if the GRE was open. You’d probably barely see or talk to a steward if we were spread out across the GRE.
I must say though. I’m slightly surprised that a few of us haven’t recognised that yesterday was an almighty box ticking exercise to show TBC that it could all be stewarded effectively in order to open up further capacity for the Bromley game though? We shouldn’t really be complaining that there’s no space (find some) or have to be moved 4 times. As excruciating and as frustrating as it is, it was just a hoop we needed to jump through and we needed to help the steward.
I didn’t see the incidents described so I’ll leave it there but essentially guys, right now, we can’t be giving the stewards an opportunity to manage a situation badly or to give TBC anything else to think about or decision to make (they’ll make a bad decision!). Did we really need someone to go in the Golf Rod ffs?
We sort of have to remember that a new stewarding group has been brought in because the previous one was deemed by TBC to not be counting people/not moving people from areas they shouldn’t have been. Obviously, they’re going to do that. We just need to suck it up for a game guys. Hopefully Nigel can feedback to them though.
One thing that has been raised is that, given the specific situation we’re in, we need some specific communication to allow us to realise what is happening and why.
As an example, the standing at the front at pitch side barriers (or not standing there now to be precise). At the AGM on Friday in aob Lawrence Looney and Neil Faulkner explained (and I think if I’m not quoting verbatim then I’m certainly paraphrasing with a large degree of confidence) that this is a new directive that for people to stand there the barriers have to be tested as crush barriers. They need strengthening to do so..
Now, football clubs are going to be checked on this when inspected but it’s not an immediate thing. However, because some absolute C**t (my phrase, not from LL or NF that one 😂) has grassed us up to the council, that has been noted by them and applied.
I queried whether the issue was the walkways by the barriers were uneven/trip hazards. It’s not. It’s the strengthening reason. This can be done but the cost factor involved isn’t appropriate right now. What is costing us more money is the reduced capacity. That is our priority to get it back up and then the strengthening can be looked at in the overall scheme of things.
That sort of information would show people clearly just why they are being asked to move away (if they couldn’t work it out themselves) and would probably help both them and the stewards going forward so maybe that’s the level of communication we need right now.
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Great post . However I do want to point out that when you are trying to move at least 100 people into an area that was already full it presented safety issues .
And given that the zones were being managed so well ( IE we all had to stand in the designated areas) freedom of movement was not an option . Im not going to put my own safety at risk .
It's down to the stewards to come up with the solution which they never did sadly .
Edit... Just want to add I do think new markings clearly showing where you can and can't now stand would help massively .IE zone out in front of the barriers and escape areas. I suppose we are in a behavior of standing wherever we want which has now changed
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Gone are the glory days of rafo telling us that no smoking is permitted in the Carole Nash family stand...if you are caught smoking you will be asked to stop ...enjoy the game ...
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Gone are the glory days of rafo telling us that no smoking is permitted in the Carole Nash family stand...if you are caught smoking you will be asked to stop ...enjoy the game ...
Not smoking - just fuming !
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Gone are the glory days of rafo telling us that no smoking is permitted in the Carole Nash family stand...if you are caught smoking you will be asked to stop ...enjoy the game ...
Not smoking - just fuming !
we need a winter break
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Encouraging new statement issued
https://www.altrinchamfc.com/news/ground-progress-update
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That is encouraging, thank God.
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Excellent statement by the club, we all now know what the way ahead is.
Hopefully the fans will be back in there normal positions around the ground for the next Home game, which will also be good for the players
Well done to all concerned.
Onwards & Upwards
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Good news
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'The capacity will be a reduction from the previously defined maximum capacity of 7,873 as all parties have agreed that this was produced based on inaccurate / out-of-date assumptions.'
While I don't expect to find out how the original figure was signed off, I do hope that the Club has received an explanation that is rather more detailed than what has been published. It looks very much as though whoever came from TBC to do the original assessment, was not doing their job correctly; it's fair to assume that had they done so, we could have avoided the debacle of the last couple of games and the money lost that it has necessitated.
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'The capacity will be a reduction from the previously defined maximum capacity of 7,873 as all parties have agreed that this was produced based on inaccurate / out-of-date assumptions.'
While I don't expect to find out how the original figure was signed off, I do hope that the Club has received an explanation that is rather more detailed than what has been published. It looks very much as though whoever came from TBC to do the original assessment, was not doing their job correctly; it's fair to assume that had they done so, we could have avoided the debacle of the last couple of games and the money lost that it has necessitated.
Based on one of councillor Western's email, it seems that that 7k plus capacity figure was basically one that the club came up with and the council simply nodded through. It wasn't as a result of an inspection I don't think. I suspect the reason we came up with such a high figure was mainly because it was at the time when grounds were being allowed 25% or whatever of their capacity under covid rules and so the higher our (notional) capacity, the more fans we could get in.
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I wonder if the capacity was based on how much each area holds per sqaure metre. Without taking in to consideration barriers, walkways etc.
Anyone at Guiseley would have felt another 3k in there would have been mental.
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Got an idea. Think of a figure double it, half it, and add on the year Altrincham market was built then if it doesn't suit write a mission statement, a policy, a risk assessment and a time line!! The grey suited clones at every Council love all of those! SBL
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I’m watching the Buxton game right now. Their perimeter fence looks identical to ours. Fans are up against the perimeter fence at this game. Surely the same safety rules apply at Buxton. Has their perimeter fence been inspected and approved as a crush barrier? Is it something to do with stewarding when it comes to being allowed on the fence? Just wondering…..
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I’m watching the Buxton game right now. Their perimeter fence looks identical to ours. Fans are up against the perimeter fence at this game. Surely the same safety rules apply at Buxton. Has their perimeter fence been inspected and approved as a crush barrier? Is it something to do with stewarding when it comes to being allowed on the fence? Just wondering…..
Probably won't have been considered, Buxton's av league gate is around 450.
It will be as much to keep walkways clear as loading on the fence (which is clearly not designed for such, the cross sectional area of the members alone show that).
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I think I read or heard somewhere that the regulations have been tightened up and become applicable at the next safety inspection.
In our case the inspection was being done as a result of a sequence of events starting with the email. Once the ball is rolling things are judged against current requirements, not out of date ones.
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I’m watching the Buxton game right now. Their perimeter fence looks identical to ours. Fans are up against the perimeter fence at this game. Surely the same safety rules apply at Buxton. Has their perimeter fence been inspected and approved as a crush barrier? Is it something to do with stewarding when it comes to being allowed on the fence? Just wondering…..
Thankfully we have Trafford Council looking after our best interests. (sarcasm).
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I wonder if the capacity was based on how much each area holds per sqaure metre. Without taking in to consideration barriers, walkways etc.
Anyone at Guiseley would have felt another 3k in there would have been mental.
FYI The capacity of all grounds is calculated based on a number of factors as detailed in the green guide, these rules have not changed in ages. These include terrace areas, terrace dimensions, terrace condition, barrier design, loadings and condition, P and S factors and the capacity of entry turnstiles, exit gates, emergency exits rate of exit and spectator flow rates. If pitch barriers are not load tested then theoretically they are not safe; in reality where grounds have minimal standing and low spectator numbers the risks are extremely low of pitch fences collapsing, but it can and has happened. Some of our pitch fences are in front of emergency exit routes, such as golf rd end, away end and other parts where anyone standing at the fence will obstruct the exit route.
Hope this helps.
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Encouraging new statement issued
https://www.altrinchamfc.com/news/ground-progress-update
That statement omits any mention of the apparent issues relating to the Golf Road End though.
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Where the P value is at its highest value of 1.0 the terrace capacity can be based on up to 4.7 persons per m2, not that comfortable, but realistically other factors such as the speed of exit and width of gates will have more of a bearing on a terrace capacity even where the terrace itself is in perfect condition.
Moss Lane is extremely difficult to assess as the terraces currently are not self-contained so free movement is theoretically possible around most of the ground.
With regards to smaller stadia, football grounds holding less than 5000 persons may not be designated unless they have been before or they have designated covered stands holding more than 500 persons.
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I’m watching the Buxton game right now. Their perimeter fence looks identical to ours. Fans are up against the perimeter fence at this game. Surely the same safety rules apply at Buxton. Has their perimeter fence been inspected and approved as a crush barrier? Is it something to do with stewarding when it comes to being allowed on the fence? Just wondering…..
Probably won't have been considered, Buxton's av league gate is around 450.
It will be as much to keep walkways clear as loading on the fence (which is clearly not designed for such, the cross sectional area of the members alone show that).
See my previous post re the explanation given at the agm. It isn’t the walkways, it’s the actual fact the barriers haven’t been tested as crowd barriers. And as someone else has reaffirmed, without the council being called in this wouldn’t have been checked until an actual inspection but now it has been.
It’s not the walkways issue although that would make more sense tbh
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With the Nantwich game just around the corner, can we be assured we'll all fit into Moss Lane?