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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Mausoleum Alty on October 26, 2016, 08:48:17 AM
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It's a big yes from me but I'm just interested to find out people's opinions and see if anyone other than Jamie thinks he's not the right man.
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I'm not sure
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He deserves more time, that scouse T**t Young is the one you need to vent your spleen at to be fair.
Plus the boards lack of foresight at not taken the right action when Sinnot pissed off, and taking their eye of the ball and not demanding that the manager strengthen at the beginning of 2016.
This demise of the team goes back way further than when Jim Harvey came to the club
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The jury's out on Harvey for me. I've always liked him as a manager and admired his teams but he's a purist when what we need now is some brutal pragmatism.
I do also think it's reasonable to expect some signs of improvement in the team seven weeks into his tenure. I sincerely hope his interview after last night's match consists of rather more than him looking dumbfounded and saying 'that was really poor'. We as fans need to see that he believes he can get us out of this and has a plan as to how he's going to do it but I'm sensing the exact opposite at the moment.
For me, people saying 'in Jim we trust' do so more from blind faith than evidence.
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It's a yes from me. He nearly saved Halifax last year so I don't know anyone else who would come with better credentials.
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He has to be given more time. I have my doubts about his approach, which is why I'd be a 'don't know' in the polls at the moment, but he has been in post for just seven weeks & that simply isn't long enough to make a reasoned judgement. It may, however, come down to whether he himself wants to carry on.
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I honestly don't know. Like everyone else I thought he was an excellent appointment and appears to have all the right firefighting credentials that we need, but I would have hoped to have seen some sort of response from the players (if not results). However, it looks like they are going in the opposite direction and this is the most worrying aspect for me, that they are not responding to him (whether this be a personality mismatch or what I don't know).
I was back over for the Stockport home game and although the problems were obvious, I didn't think we were a million miles away, but sadly we appear to have regressed still further. I'm over again for the Lincoln game as it was bought for me as a birthday gift.....I shall have to concentrate on the meeting friends and drinking aspect of this gift as I fear the on-the-pitch component could be very painful
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Yes from me.
Players take the blame and should knuckle down and stop giving the ball away its simple and basic...james lawrie needs to score two wonder goals a game to eaqual out the times he is disposessed in our half...
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100% yes from me.
I'd like the players to be honest. If they're not interested in Alty, can they just ask to leave please, for all our goods. We are good fans at Alty and we're really hurting right now. If you're not as committed as us, fair enough, but just go.
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To Inherit a useless team can't defend can't attack
The worst alty side ever sack the board before the manager
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Said yes, but time will tell. Until he has the squad he picked then he is managing with other peoples choices.
Football is a fine line between winning and losing, but we are below thew line at present and can't see it. Hope it changes soon.
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Has to be given time to sort things out. I'm not sure what people where expecting in regards to quality signings coming in. The budget had been spent and decent players are in teams starting 11 and settled. Unless we have a wedge of money to throw at it, we are going to be trying to get performances from other teams cast offs at this stage. Couldn't believe how quiet the players were last night, we desperately need 2-3 nut jobs that that bully a few of our own and the opposition out on the pitch (they don't need to be the best footballers , they need to be hungry and willing to go to the well every game). We've had them in the past and the influence can be infectious. It's a dog fight now.
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It's a yes from me. He my preferred candidate at time and I can't think of anyone better. However I am bemused by some of his decision i.e. playiplaying 1 up front against piss poor teams. I wasn't there last night so Im only going off match updates but it seems a strange to take Reeves off when we need goals.
Hope he has lined up 2 cbs as soon as possible.
So it's a yes but no as enfatic as it was
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It's a yes from me. He my preferred candidate at time and I can't think of anyone better. However I am bemused by some of his decision i.e. playiplaying 1 up front against piss poor teams. I wasn't there last night so Im only going off match updates but it seems a strange to take Reeves off when we need goals.
Hope he has lined up 2 cbs as soon as possible.
So it's a yes but no as enfatic as it was
He played 2 up front last night - Reeves and Marsh.
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I know. But that's the 1st time he's started with 2 up front to my knowledge
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Jim was getting there with team but they seem to have lost the edge. Getting passes to our own players seems to be a big problem, maybe this could be analysed with two clickers,one for successful and one for failed pass attempts : I think the percentage result would make interesting reading. Also there does seem to be tendency to ease off when in the lead, which is not too often. The Bradford PA game was a classic case where we conceded three goals by letting them into the game but then commenced to pressure Bradford but far too late.
Jim will sort out the team eventually. He has good track record.
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A guarded yes. I fear he may be a bit of a slow burner (or builder rather I suppose) for us in the context of the immediate jolt that wee need. Leon also mentions that his good style of football may be beyond us as well at the minute.
Long term, I'm not sure his ambitions for the club match those of the current board, which is going to end in one of two ways.
1. He gets exasperated and walks
2. There is a dulling down of his expectations that in itself would signify that maybe this is just an available job for him rather than something he's really wanted to get his teeth into.
I don't know, it's all such a mess at the minute that pinpointing the main causes is liking pinning a tale on the donkey.
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A guarded yes. I fear he may be a bit of a slow burner (or builder rather I suppose) for us in the context of the immediate jolt that wee need. Leon also mentions that his good style of football may be beyond us as well at the minute.
Long term, I'm not sure his ambitions for the club match those of the current board, which is going to end in one of two ways.
1. He gets exasperated and walks
2. There is a dulling down of his expectations that in itself would signify that maybe this is just an available job for him rather than something he's really wanted to get his teeth into.
I don't know, it's all such a mess at the minute that pinpointing the main causes is liking pinning a tale on the donkey.
There has been a few donkeys on the pitch as of late fella
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Yes.
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Yes, but he can't do much unless he gets a couple of decent centre backs in sharpish.
Obviously easier said than done in October, but what funds there are need to prioritise this. Cyrus makes Hall look almost competent.
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Add to that a central midfielder
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Add to that a central midfielder
Make that two and a centre forward plus a left winger (oh I know where there's one of those!).
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A big yes from me for Jim. I expect big improvements also once Tom Hannigan and Greg return to the fold. It shouldn't be like that, but it is.
All is not completely lost yet, key players need to be playing regularly, that will make such a difference and this is not be being optimistic, I think this is a fact.
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A definite yes from me, not least because, if he were to go, we'd be looking at a fourth manager in seven months. No other manager worth his salt is going to consider signing up with that sort of stability in evidence.
Jim isn't Alex Ferguson......but he isn't Neil Young either. Give him time, but don't expect miracles.
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As has been done on another thread, this is a long time Alty Fan who has been a forum watcher/reader for a long time, but given the current circumstances at the club has decided to crawl out of the woodwork. Given his track record I would say Jim was most definitely the outstanding candidate for the job once Neil Young left. His take on the situation we find ourselves in is extremely refreshing and at least he is not offering us the usual managerial cliches that are often served up. My only real concern is his view that he thought we were gradually turning the corner before the Telford/BPA game. While the results were positive, I wouldn't say we impressed in any of the previous games with the possible exeption of the Gainsborough FA Cup game. I wasn't at the Stalybridge game but believe it was two poor sides on show, and the other FA cup ties were not overly encouraging, especially defensively, so I wasn't overly surprised we lost the last two games as we look so easy to create chances against at the moment.
All that being said he certainly has the experience and knowledge to get us out of this mess. We need a settled back 4 once Tom is back from suspension and need to find a midfield partnership that works and helps protect this back 4. Moult and Richman have the ability to do this but either need an arm around the shoulder or a kick up the a**e to get them back playing at the levels we expect. Good luck Jim!
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As has been done on another thread, this is a long time Alty Fan who has been a forum watcher/reader for a long time, but given the current circumstances at the club has decided to crawl out of the woodwork. Given his track record I would say Jim was most definitely the outstanding candidate for the job once Neil Young left. His take on the situation we find ourselves in is extremely refreshing and at least he is not offering us the usual managerial cliches that are often served up. My only real concern is his view that he thought we were gradually turning the corner before the Telford/BPA game. While the results were positive, I wouldn't say we impressed in any of the previous games with the possible exeption of the Gainsborough FA Cup game. I wasn't at the Stalybridge game but believe it was two poor sides on show, and the other FA cup ties were not overly encouraging, especially defensively, so I wasn't overly surprised we lost the last two games as we look so easy to create chances against at the moment.
All that being said he certainly has the experience and knowledge to get us out of this mess. We need a settled back 4 once Tom is back from suspension and need to find a midfield partnership that works and helps protect this back 4. Moult and Richman have the ability to do this but either need an arm around the shoulder or a kick up the a**e to get them back playing at the levels we expect. Good luck Jim!
good post . I think Jim even after poor wins has been really clear that thier is a lot to do at this club. In some ways he was probably trying to build a bit of belief with the fans and team
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Yes, that's a fair point. That is one issue which needs addressing as soon as possible. The lack of confidence being shown by the majority of players is quite worrying and restoring the confidence is as big a job for Jim as anything else in the short term.
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Yes, that's a fair point. That is one issue which needs addressing as soon as possible. The lack of confidence being shown by the majority of players is quite worrying and restoring the confidence is as big a job for Jim as anything else in the short term.
agreed the atmosphere on the terraces is really poor at the moment as well . No surprise really . But it's sad to see . The fans have been amazing over a terrible period
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I cannot recall any other Alty manager who has lost six of his opening seven league fixtures in charge (or has lost his first three home league games).
Is there no end in sight to this misery?
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I cannot recall any other Alty manager who has lost six of his opening seven league fixtures in charge (or has lost his first three home league games).
Is there no end in sight to this misery?
I have to say it's been surprising how little effect a new manager has had. Either Jim is isn't the right man for this unique situation or the players really are total crap. I think the latter.
Anybody know whether John Cyrus was injured today or just taking the brunt of Tuesdays debacle? I know he has made mistakes but I really feel he is a much better option alongside Tom Hannigan than Danny Hall. Hall wasn't good enough 5 years ago, another bizarre decision to add to all the other this season.
P.S. Harvey can change the defence as much as he wants, personnel or formations , but until he finds 3 midfielder then we will continue to struggle
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I cannot recall any other Alty manager who has lost six of his opening seven league fixtures in charge (or has lost his first three home league games).
Is there no end in sight to this misery?
I have to say it's been surprising how little effect a new manager has had. Either Jim is isn't the right man for this unique situation or the players really are total crap. I think the latter.
Anybody know whether John Cyrus was injured today or just taking the brunt of Tuesdays debacle? I know he has made mistakes but I really feel he is a much better option alongside Tom Hannigan than Danny Hall. Hall wasn't good enough 5 years ago, another bizarre decision to add to all the other this season.
P.S. Harvey can change the defence as much as he wants, personnel or formations , but until he finds 3 midfielder then we will continue to struggle
Danny Hall coming back was a panic signing. Like you say he was poor first time we had him and he doesn't look to have improved any!
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I cannot recall any other Alty manager who has lost six of his opening seven league fixtures in charge (or has lost his first three home league games).
Is there no end in sight to this misery?
make that seven out of eight - and I can't believe that only me and one other person on this forum have concerns about the manager. We're f**ked the board have seen to that, we would go down whoever in charge. But expected better from Harvey than this, he's taking us backwards, time to start being accountable
Seems to me Harvey is immune for any criticism despite making us a worse team than what we had under Neil Young - all 'very poor' in the words of Harvey I'm sure, but not good enough for any manager of Altrincham FC
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There I'll join you!
I did think Jim Harvey was a good appointment at the time but as has been said, he's made us an even poorer team. The alarm bells were sounding for me when he just signed his ex-Stalybridge players but the loan signing this week seems to be scraping the barrel.
I assume after we get thrashed by Lincoln and Salford he will have no choice but to walk.
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We have very short memories here . He took on an unthinkable task here . He has been given a broken squad.
However I do share the concern that nearly 2 months in there is still no more drive or passion in this team
That's a huge concern
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We're f**ked, it's not even November.
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I cannot recall any other Alty manager who has lost six of his opening seven league fixtures in charge (or has lost his first three home league games).
Is there no end in sight to this misery?
make that seven out of eight - and I can't believe that only me and one other person on this forum have concerns about the manager. We're f**ked the board have seen to that, we would go down whoever in charge. But expected better from Harvey than this, he's taking us backwards, time to start being accountable
Seems to me Harvey is immune for any criticism despite making us a worse team than what we had under Neil Young - all 'very poor' in the words of Harvey I'm sure, but not good enough for any manager of Altrincham FC
Totally agree with you about the board but I don't think we're a worse team under Harvey. The players he's brought in are an improvement on who they've replaced Marsh/Hattersley,Wilkinson/Bassongue,McWilliams/Charlton but once a team gets into a losing habit it drains confidence and is very hard to break! I'm sure JH knows exactly what we need player wise but as has been mentioned on here previously where do you get decent players from in October except the loan market?
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For whatever reason we were told funds were only being released this week. I know there's protocols but I'm sure Sunderland would have been good for it but there you go. He had a couple of days between that and yesterday's game to bring people in. Next week is problematic as clubs won't want players cup tied. But let's see how we line up against Salford city in a fortnight. The last thing we need at present is another manager going. This is an unenviable job already after what Young has done, it'll become pretty much unwantable by anyone of any note if another manager goes
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For whatever reason we were told funds were only being released this week. I know there's protocols but I'm sure Sunderland would have been good for it but there you go. He had a couple of days between that and yesterday's game to bring people in. Next week is problematic as clubs won't want players cup tied. But let's see how we line up against Salford city in a fortnight. The last thing we need at present is another manager going. This is an unenviable job already after what Young has done, it'll become pretty much unwantable by anyone of any note if another manager goes
Agreed. If Harvey walks who's going to be daft enough to want the job? We'll end up with Heathcote back which would be a total disaster!!
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For whatever reason we were told funds were only being released this week. I know there's protocols but I'm sure Sunderland would have been good for it but there you go. He had a couple of days between that and yesterday's game to bring people in. Next week is problematic as clubs won't want players cup tied. But let's see how we line up against Salford city in a fortnight. The last thing we need at present is another manager going. This is an unenviable job already after what Young has done, it'll become pretty much unwantable by anyone of any note if another manager goes
Agreed. If Harvey walks who's going to be daft enough to want the job? We'll end up with Heathcote back which would be a total disaster!!
Or tolson
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Jim Harvey needs more time to turn this round, see what happens when Tom returns next week - AND MAKE HIM CAPTAIN
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For whatever reason we were told funds were only being released this week. I know there's protocols but I'm sure Sunderland would have been good for it but there you go. He had a couple of days between that and yesterday's game to bring people in. Next week is problematic as clubs won't want players cup tied. But let's see how we line up against Salford city in a fortnight. The last thing we need at present is another manager going. This is an unenviable job already after what Young has done, it'll become pretty much unwantable by anyone of any note if another manager goes
Agreed. If Harvey walks who's going to be daft enough to want the job? We'll end up with Heathcote back which would be a total disaster!!
Given the circumstances we would find ourselves in should Harvey leave, I wouldn't call the appointment of Graham Heathcote a disaster.
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For whatever reason we were told funds were only being released this week. I know there's protocols but I'm sure Sunderland would have been good for it but there you go. He had a couple of days between that and yesterday's game to bring people in. Next week is problematic as clubs won't want players cup tied. But let's see how we line up against Salford city in a fortnight. The last thing we need at present is another manager going. This is an unenviable job already after what Young has done, it'll become pretty much unwantable by anyone of any note if another manager goes
Agreed. If Harvey walks who's going to be daft enough to want the job? We'll end up with Heathcote back which would be a total disaster!!
Given the circumstances we would find ourselves in should Harvey leave, I wouldn't call the appointment of Graham Heathcote a disaster.
He's been out of work for a while, and took Stafford and Trafford down?
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For whatever reason we were told funds were only being released this week. I know there's protocols but I'm sure Sunderland would have been good for it but there you go. He had a couple of days between that and yesterday's game to bring people in. Next week is problematic as clubs won't want players cup tied. But let's see how we line up against Salford city in a fortnight. The last thing we need at present is another manager going. This is an unenviable job already after what Young has done, it'll become pretty much unwantable by anyone of any note if another manager goes
Agreed. If Harvey walks who's going to be daft enough to want the job? We'll end up with Heathcote back which would be a total disaster!!
Given the circumstances we would find ourselves in should Harvey leave, I wouldn't call the appointment of Graham Heathcote a disaster.
I agree - but even in the dire circumstances we are in, I expect there will be a big list of applications offering to try and keep us up / manage us in the Glue-League
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I hope jim takes heart from the fans who can see what a horrible situation he has inherited.......I still think he'll turn it round.
some people seem to think there are eddie hussins and val owens freely available and desperate to move to a bottom the vanarama north table.....
if jim does turn it round then he's a f&&&&ing hero.........A run of games from tom is vital...and the players understanding a siege mentality and not giving the ball away cheaply....
stick with it jim.....still a fantastic opportunity to become alty folklore...
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I cannot recall any other Alty manager who has lost six of his opening seven league fixtures in charge (or has lost his first three home league games).
Is there no end in sight to this misery?
make that seven out of eight - and I can't believe that only me and one other person on this forum have concerns about the manager. We're f**ked the board have seen to that, we would go down whoever in charge. But expected better from Harvey than this, he's taking us backwards, time to start being accountable
Seems to me Harvey is immune for any criticism despite making us a worse team than what we had under Neil Young - all 'very poor' in the words of Harvey I'm sure, but not good enough for any manager of Altrincham FC
Totally agree with you about the board but I don't think we're a worse team under Harvey.
Statistically, we are though in relation to our league form.
Neil Young: three points from six matches (i.e. 0.5 points per game);
Jim Harvey: three points from seven matches (i.e. 0.4285 points per game).
I'm not propounding a theory that Young was a better option than Harvey but it's true to say that our league form has actually deteriorated since Young's (correct) departure.
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Jim's latest interview suggests that he has finally had enough of the current crop of players and has no belief (like the fans) that they can get us out of this mess. I'd be looking to move on Dawber, Hall, Goodall, Richman, Moult (regretfully), Lawrie, Hasler Cregg, Joyce and Hobson as soon as possible. I'd also be trying to come to some sort of arrangement with Sean Densmore. Even if he came back before Christmas he'd be so rusty that I see little point in continuing to pay him. Tim Deasey has been a disappointment since he came back and if a better alternative can be found then I'd shift him on too.
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Jim's latest interview suggests that he has finally had enough of the current crop of players and has no belief (like the fans) that they can get us out of this mess. I'd be looking to move on Dawber, Hall, Goodall, Richman, Moult (regretfully), Lawrie, Hasler Cregg, Joyce and Hobson as soon as possible. I'd also be trying to come to some sort of arrangement with Sean Densmore. Even if he came back before Christmas he'd be so rusty that I see little point in continuing to pay him. Tim Deasey has been a disappointment since he came back and if a better alternative can be found then I'd shift him on too.
Moult could easily improve with a decent central midfield partner .Not sure about Patterson defensively either very good going forward though,you rate Cyrus then ?
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He didn't have a decent partner last season but was outstanding
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Jim's latest interview suggests that he has finally had enough of the current crop of players and has no belief (like the fans) that they can get us out of this mess. I'd be looking to move on Dawber, Hall, Goodall, Richman, Moult (regretfully), Lawrie, Hasler Cregg, Joyce and Hobson as soon as possible. I'd also be trying to come to some sort of arrangement with Sean Densmore. Even if he came back before Christmas he'd be so rusty that I see little point in continuing to pay him. Tim Deasey has been a disappointment since he came back and if a better alternative can be found then I'd shift him on too.
I'd add Cyrus to that list but I'd keep Dawber and Moult. Dawber is an adequate back up keeper and I believe Moult along with Deasy are just very low on confidence and not bad players.
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Yeh, maybe give Moult another go with some quality players around him, this time last year he was in good form and his performance against Colchester in the cup was absolutely top drawer. I like John Cyrus, don't get me wrong he had a nightmare against BPA, but I think in a decent side alongside an experienced centre back he could develop into a good player.
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Sam Heathcote is head and shoulders better than Cyrus and would benfit from playing next to hanigan.
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I would retain Deasey, we have not defended like a team should at all. We give the ball away, make crap decisions and fail to complete passes all over the pitch. Given all that it is no surprise we're leaking like a sieve. I do think he should be more vocal and command his area better though.
I will be happy to see the back of the vast majority of this set of plonkers.
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Given the Cup run and Watmore appearance cash what do people think Jim has to play with money wise, about £50k? That's around £2k per week on top of the budget until the end of the season, all things being equal. That would be enough to bring in 5 or 6 via loans / short term / non-contracts of a decent standard for this league? I'm encouraged by Jim's interview and hope three, four or more new faces arrive very soon. Anything less won't be sufficient to get us moving in the right direction before it's too late. If we don't start getting results soon gates will go down and the extra £2k will just be used to plug the hole in the existing budget.
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I suspect a large chunk of that figure would need to spent on paying up contracts of some of the dross we currently have on the books. Consequently there won't be an awful lot left to bring in new players.
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Cash offer for Jack Rea would be interesting given Telford's financial woes. More likely it'll be a Nicky or two (Clee and Wroe). Gary Jones still available too. Did somebody mention Glen Rule recently? It'll be an interesting week or two, that's for sure.
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I suspect a large chunk of that figure would need to spent on paying up contracts of some of the dross we currently have on the books. Consequently there won't be an awful lot left to bring in new players.
That would certainly be the case if the Cup run and the Watmore £ , or some % of it, was already accounted for in the budget - but my understanding is it's all extra on top (provided other revenue holds up of course). Agreed - if we can come to termination agreements with some of those on season long contracts it would, albeit sadly in some cases, represent good business.
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Let's hope we can get some players in before Saturday. The cup should be motivation in itself but watching those full bpa highlights, we really are lost at the moment
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He didn't have a decent partner last season but was outstanding
He was outstanding for half the season mate, but like the rest of them he suffered from post-Colchesteritus and he's been very poor since. Getting into the XI on name alone at this stage.
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He didn't have a decent partner last season but was outstanding
He was outstanding for half the season mate, but like the rest of them he suffered from post-Colchesteritus and he's been very poor since. Getting into the XI on name alone at this stage.
agreed i would still keep though him , as others have said we need a new midfield , ie 2 central midfielders and 2 wide players who can defend and attack.
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i would keep Simon Richman