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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: whiskyalty on October 13, 2016, 08:14:35 PM
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See main alty site fa want answers about the flares at Stalybridge last Saturday clubs will now probably be fined as. It has happened with alty before.
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It's a flare,they've not killed anyone! We are basically being asked to grass on our own which you just don't do.
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It's a flare,they've not killed anyone! We are basically being asked to grass on our own which you just don't do.
So if you saw one of our fans commit a serious assault you'd keep shtum ? How bloody pathetic !
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Like I said it's a flare. Who said anything about a serious assault?? Maybe I was brought up wrong but loose lips sink ships.
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They've had their fun. They should be banned until they pay the fine. Why should the rest of us suffer for their stupid actions? Keeping quiet to protect the guilty IS disgusting.
They are not OUR own if they are costing the club money.
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Why is anyone else suffering? You're a bunch of non streetwise toffs that want to sell an Alty fan down the river,that's disgusting.
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Like I said it's a flare. Who said anything about a serious assault?? Maybe I was brought up wrong but loose lips sink ships.
"You just don't grass on your own" implies there is no limit to what you'd turn a blind eye to. This piece of idiocy could cost the club money....and we don't have it to throw around.
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Blind bat I take it you don't suffer with asthma . The flare going off near someone who does will tell you it affects their breathing .and yes could kill that person.
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Like I said it's a flare. Who said anything about a serious assault?? Maybe I was brought up wrong but loose lips sink ships.
"You just don't grass on your own" implies there is no limit to what you'd turn a blind eye to. This piece of idiocy could cost the club money....and we don't have it to throw around.
Absolutely right. I presume anyone who seeks to excuse, protect or defend the person responsible would be happy to pay the fine on the Club's behalf?
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Blind bat I take it you don't suffer with asthma . The flare going off near someone who does will tell you it affects their breathing .and yes could kill that person.
😂 Make sure you don't stand too close to anyone smoking
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Like I said it's a flare. Who said anything about a serious assault?? Maybe I was brought up wrong but loose lips sink ships.
It's against the rules, we all know that and whether you personally agree with the rule or not does not dictate whether or not you should follow it, if it did there would be no point having rules, everyone could just make up their own mind on every issue and chaos would ensue.
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Was just thinking the same thing Bath Alty. This doesn't help us one bit.
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If we won more than once every Preston guild people might not get so excited... for the record I've no idea who let that thing off, I thought it was a smoke bomb rather than a flare though. However Rather than thanks for the unreal support (apart from by the manager) after such a horrendous period for the supporters, from a relegation to being castigated twice in four months in the national press, we get another public bollocking. It's great to be appreciated.
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It's never been the same since they banned my air horn in the 90s .. all down hill from there
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It's a flare,they've not killed anyone! We are basically being asked to grass on our own which you just don't do.
It's a flare that's results in the club being fined which diverts money that could be invested in the team.
Grass on them and get them banned. They are not an asset to the club.
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Yes let's ban people that pay to attend games. They could spend their Saturdays with all those that have walked away in recent months..
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Do the maths. If you haven't got GCSE get someone to do it for you.
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Firstly, do you know what the fine is for such an offence so I can get someone to do the sum for me? The game was at bowerfold stalybridge so they'd be best asking their two stewards for their observations. We are 48 hours before a massive cup tie and instead of positivity it's yet another go at this clubs incredible supporters. Perhaps 14 quid in an envelope through the letterbox is the way to go as that's all we are good for. There's no way Altrincham can be charged over this, it was an unsegregated football match in Tameside. Just a small paragraph asking if it was Altrincham supporters involved then please don't do it again would have sufficed.
Better still if the FA aren't happy with that response tell them it was the same fans that rang Neil youngs family up
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Can't believe anyone you shouldn't grass on your own. He is not "one of our own" he is a liability to the club.
I'd certainly be very happy to "grass" on him if he does it again. Hopefully he sees sense and doesn't cause any further issues for the club.
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Which teams have the English FA made play games behind closed doors or at a nuetral venue in the past 30 years?
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Firstly, do you know what the fine is for such an offence so I can get someone to do the sum for me? The game was at bowerfold stalybridge so they'd be best asking their two stewards for their observations. We are 48 hours before a massive cup tie and instead of positivity it's yet another go at this clubs incredible supporters. Perhaps 14 quid in an envelope through the letterbox is the way to go as that's all we are good for. There's no way Altrincham can be charged over this, it was an unsegregated football match in Tameside. Just a small paragraph asking if it was Altrincham supporters involved then please don't do it again would have sufficed.
Better still if the FA aren't happy with that response tell them it was the same fans that rang Neil youngs family up
After a quick google the lowest fine I can come up with is £500. Do the maths based on that for a start. After all it wasn't a UEFA cup match £40K fine. People who let flares off and cause the club to incur fines are not incredible supporters. They are clowns. The incredible supporters can carry on without them thank you very much.
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2 excellent posts by Oi Polloi. Cheshire Cat,you need to get your head from up your own arse and get in the real world,you seem very wet behind the ears for an adult.
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If it's a flare that gets that fine then I hope we don't pay. It was a smoke bomb
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You're all hooligans and need branding with hot irons.
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Nothing happened. Move on.
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If we had to play behind closed doors it would save us a lot of money . Shame we didn't do it for the last 12months
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2 excellent posts by Oi Polloi. Cheshire Cat,you need to get your head from up your own arse and get in the real world,you seem very wet behind the ears for an adult.
With your distorted cretinous views of how the world should be, please tell me you're not old enough to have a vote.
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There are some wet lettuces on here really.
However, the Website states that the FA have asked the club for their opinions and how they'll prevent it happening.
I think that's bollocks but we have to take it at face value so, apart from the answer being we'll have more than two stewards on show at our home matches, the club need to be seen to be doing sonething.
Seen, because you couldn't ban anybody (and nor should you) based on the information provided by an individual. Say Cheshire Cat identified me as the culprit I'd just say prove it
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I saw the smoke bomb land on the pitch on Saturday, must have been thrown from near where the stewards were stood.
What proof is there it was thrown by an Altrincham supporter? There was no segregation.
I do hope the culprit is found.
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I have to say we appear to have some right old curmudgeons on this thread.
As pointed out by others the photos of the young lads behind the goal at Vegas last Saturday was fantastic to see, especially given our away record for the last 18 months. I think you have to try and remember yourself at that age, football culture now and in the last few years flares have become a big part of it again. None of these lads will post on here I suspect or even be aware of this and this risks being seen as the old brigade pouring scorn on the next generation of our fans who had a cracking day out supporting us with their mates. This could be handled differently, thanking the lads first for their support (as Jim Harvey did) but then issuing general guidance about flares, informing them of the possible penalties and asking them not to do it in future. The tone for me is overly heavy handed.
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2 excellent posts by Oi Polloi. Cheshire Cat,you need to get your head from up your own arse and get in the real world,you seem very wet behind the ears for an adult.
With your distorted cretinous views of how the world should be, please tell me you're not old enough to have a vote.
How the world should be? I've given an opinion on not informing to the police,I've hardly ranted on about the world!! Get a grip!!
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I have to say we appear to have some right old curmudgeons on this thread.
As pointed out by others the photos of the young lads behind the goal at Vegas last Saturday was fantastic to see, especially given our away record for the last 18 months. I think you have to try and remember yourself at that age, football culture now and in the last few years flares have become a big part of it again. None of these lads will post on here I suspect or even be aware of this and this risks being seen as the old brigade pouring scorn on the next generation of our fans who had a cracking day out supporting us with their mates. This could be handled differently, thanking the lads first for their support (as Jim Harvey did) but then issuing general guidance about flares, informing them of the possible penalties and asking them not to do it in future. The tone for me is overly heavy handed.
Another excellent post!!
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Let’s just ignore the negative stuff from the club. They are never going to get it right. At least in Jim we have a good manager that acknowledges and appreciates the incredible support given on Saturday. It’s a shame that if the club don’t have positive things to say they don’t just remain quiet. They managed it pretty well when Graham Heathcote was suspended from the dugout for his part in a mass brawl against Torquay a few years back didn't they?
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I would suggest that if ANY football club is that concerned about this then can I suggest that they install CCTV cameras .
Just for the record, and before the moans of who is going to pay for them, NO I am not offering to pay for the installation, but as stated at the recent "meet the board/manager" function, people were encouraged to suggest ways to improve things at the football club. On and Off the field.
I am just suggesting that if the club are that concerned then this would be a solution to stop it in future.
In my eyes, it was just a smoke bomb/flare and as others have said, it was just a bit of over enthusiasm by probably a young fan who Yes should have really known better but Hey Ho he got a bit excited a the sight of an away win (quite possibly his first experience of such a thing).
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Well done to all the young lads making a good atmosphere at Alty these days!! lets have plenty more big games with a decent cup run !!!! Onwards and Upwards!!
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My own opinion on this is that I think the "club" are talking absolute bollocks. Firstly, as identified, it was a smoke bomb and not a flare. Yes it was stupid and i would coherse people in to not throwing one but - hey ho it's happened amongst us going 1-0 away from home in a competition we were yet to win in. As for the FA, it wouldn't be hard to contact them and ask if they have asked for an opinion on this and call the clubs bluff. It was an unsegregated game, we already provide stewarding at ML who check bags etc upon admittance to the ground so as far as the "club" are concerned there's not a lot more they can do, we won't get fined it's a smokesceeen to chastise yet again I'm afraid.
The "club" seem to be one huge PR disaster at the moment. I've put "the club" in inverted commas as it seems when it suits we are all in this together yet at other times there's a massive divide between SUPPORTERS and chairman/directors
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The "club" seem to be one huge PR disaster at the moment. I've put "the club" in inverted commas as it seems when it suits we are all in this together yet at other times there's a massive divide between SUPPORTERS and chairman/directors
I think this is absolutely spot on.
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FYI
Grimsby Town have been heavily (as in five figures) fined and threatened with Ground Closure Sanctions in the past two seasons because of their fans use of pyrotechnics at away games.
Also, if an incident like a flare/smoke bomb/pitch incursion is included in the Referees report then both Clubs will have an email by 9.00 on the Monday following a Saturday fixture requesting the information referred to.
What a pity the FA don't get off their arses so quick when it comes to sorting international clearance for players.
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The club is responding to the FAs request / demand. They've said they are taking it seriously. If they said anything else it would invite further action from the FA. What they have done is the best they can do to avoid further action against the club.
I'd say the statement is more for the FA than for the supporters. If they said anything else it would attract negative publicity.
If the FA decide to fine the club without any clear evidence that Alty fans were involved that is the time for us to look for a different response from the club.
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What a joke! Don't see a problem with flares adds to the experience and enjoyment of the game! You see them used daily at football games across the world. Nobody died and it added to the atmosphere. Fair play to the person who threw it on the field. Hope to see more in the future
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Saturday had the best away atmosphere I've been to in years with non stop singing second half. I don't think it's any coincidence it coincided with our first away win in God knows how long. A poxy smoke bomb which we most likely won't get fined for shouldn't be overshadowing this support at all. It's pathetic.
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Yes I think the chairman should slag of the fans in the NLP about it,he must've gone a hole month without doing that.
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There's nothing wrong with having a great time and singing yourself hoarse to celebrate a win, especially an oh so rare away win.
Whether flares and smoke bombs have a positive effect on the atmosphere or not the club have a duty of care towards the spectators that turn up. The FA will make sure the club take their responsibilities seriously which ultimately means fines, CCTV or a police presence at every game.
All of these are costs we can do without. Just because we aren't in the football league doesn't mean we can expect to get away with stuff that would be unacceptable elsewhere.
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I don't think people understand that silence on the matter would speak volumes about Altrincham FC. We've got to at least show that we recognise it as an incident. Whatever your own personal opinions on it are, rules dictate that they are banned and lack of action would display a severe lack of professionalism from the Club.
I've just read through this thread for the first time and it seems people are split down the middle here.
For me, the young adults who frequent away games just need to reign in the new blood as and when it is needed. Some on this thread have come across as pretty prehistoric. I've said it before, but you've been blessed with a generation of fans that have no interest in this sort of stuff. The next one you're seeing now is no different to dozens nation-wide.
They need to be afforded a bit of a licence to support the club in a more adolescent manner, so that they can be given the time to mature into the fans that keep this club going.
Older fans will take them under their wing, no doubt, and hopefully something like this won't happen again.
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It's funny that the only people on the web who seem to be holding Alty fans responsible for this are Blind Bat and others on this forum. The club make no implication whatsoever that they think Alty fans were responsible: they only note that smoke 'flares' were thrown (which is an undisputed fact) and they are asking whether some Alty fans have any information about that. The club also makes it clear that the FA has asked them to do something like this.
For the record, the club's statement on the website is:
"During the Stalybridge Celtic v Altrincham game last week, smoke "flares" were thrown onto the pitch. As a consequence, the FA has asked the clubs for their comments on the incident and to outline their plans to prevent any reoccurrence of such behaviour. Ultimately one, or both, clubs could be charge with misconduct and could be fined. It is therefore important that the perpetrators are identified to minimize the damage to the reputation of the clubs and to minimize the chance of any reoccurrence.
Altrincham FC views such behaviour extremely seriously and, to that end, it is appealing to any supporters who may have information regarding the incident to contact the Club as soon as possible. All information will be handled in the strictest confidence."
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Where have I said I hold Alty fans responsible? That'll be errr nowhere!
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You said:
"It's a flare,they've not killed anyone! We are basically being asked to grass on our own which you just don't do."
Assuming you identify as an Alty fan.
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You said:
"It's a flare,they've not killed anyone! We are basically being asked to grass on our own which you just don't do."
Assuming you identify as an Alty fan.
That doesn't mean I personally think an Alty fan did it,just saying that if the club think it's an Alty fan it's not right to expect fellow Alty fans to turn informers. Talk about 2+2=5!!
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Some cat out there not digging flares? Like, drop out man.
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This thread has really flared up
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Gosh.
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Having read through this thread and doing some research online its worth pointing out some of the below :-
Personally - it annoys me when anything is thrown, its not funny, it disrupts the game and puts people in danger - I'd happily "grass" if I knew who did it - because one day it could be someone I know who gets hurt.
People are getting jailed and banned
• In November 2013 a Manchester United fan that set off a smoke bomb during their clash with West Bromwich Albion - Sir Alex Ferguson's last game in charge – was given a two month jail term (suspended for 12 months) and banned from any football grounds for three years.
• In February 2013 two Chelsea fans were jailed for 28 days and given six year football banning orders for taking smoke bombs into the Liberty Stadium for a match versus Swansea City. Their appeal for the sentence was thrown out.
• In January 2013 an 18 year old Exeter City fan was jailed for two months and given a six year banning order for attempting to take a smoke bomb into Torquay United v Exeter City.
• In August 2012 an Oxford United fan was jailed for two months and given a six year banning order for taking a smoke bomb into Home Park for a match versus Plymouth Argyle.
Recent examples of injuries caused by pyrotechnics at English football grounds
• Leeds United v Shrewsbury Town, 11 August 2012 – two supporters were injured, one requiring hospital treatment, when an industrial firework was ignited and thrown in the away supporters’ toilet.
• Coventry City v Walsall, 8 December 2012 - a flare was discharged by the Walsall supporters. A steward placed his foot on the device to prevent further smoke escaping, however the sole of his shoe melted causing injury.
• Leicester City v Sheffield Wednesday, 9 March 2013 - a female supporter received treatment for burns to her leg from one of the smoke bombs thrown between supporters.
• Bolton Wanderers v Huddersfield Town, 2 April 2013 - Bolton supporters ignited a flare and an 18 year old youth was treated for burns picking it up.
• West Bromwich Albion v Newcastle United, 20 April 2013 – fans were treated for shrapnel wounds following the setting off of thunder flashes. Debris passed through jeans and caused cuts to legs.
• Wigan Athletic v Aston Villa, May 2013 - a 15-year-old boy suffered lung damage from a smoke bomb thrown during the game. The boy needed hospital treatment, while two women aged 22 and 24, also required attention for the effects of the device.
• Liverpool v Everton, May 2013 – an eight year Everton fan was hit by a smoke bomb thrown by fans in the away end. He was treated for a burn on his neck on his first visit to a Merseyside derby.
• Aston Villa v Tottenham Hotspur on 20 October 2013 - an assistant referee was struck by a lit smoke canister thrown from the stand.
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not caused by flares or smoke bombs, but if anyone wants a reminder of how fire and football don't mix well..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIxN3ypB3rw
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not caused by flares or smoke bombs, but if anyone wants a reminder of how fire and football don't mix well..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIxN3ypB3rw
I thought the comment at the top of the thread likening a kid throwing a smoke bomb to a serious assault was going to be the most ridiculously stupid non sequitur on this thread
I was wrong
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not caused by flares or smoke bombs, but if anyone wants a reminder of how fire and football don't mix well..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIxN3ypB3rw
Keith Lard
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not caused by flares or smoke bombs, but if anyone wants a reminder of how fire and football don't mix well..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIxN3ypB3rw
I thought the comment at the top of the thread likening a kid throwing a smoke bomb to a serious assault was going to be the most ridiculously stupid non sequitur on this thread
I was wrong
Reports that flare-wielding footballs fans were present at the start of time remain unconfirmed.
(http://www.universetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/history.bigbang.jpg)
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I can't stay silent any longer I have to admit I saw the culprit
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not caused by flares or smoke bombs, but if anyone wants a reminder of how fire and football don't mix well..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIxN3ypB3rw
wow ... as you say not related to a smoke bomb in any way with fire exits locked so fans perished trying to exit
This forum never ceases to amaze me
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not caused by flares or smoke bombs, but if anyone wants a reminder of how fire and football don't mix well..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIxN3ypB3rw
Are you on crack?
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Not to mention, amongst others
This
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/flare-kills-football-fan-at-world-cup-qualifying-match-1505057.html
and
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2282468/A-young-fan-killed-Corinthians-match-flare-thrown-crowd.html
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I remember when that flare ruined our last minute winner against Brackley.
Would be happy to donate to a fund to pay for any fines incurred from people having a good time at the game.
Perhaps the half-time bucket collection could be used for this purpose as well?
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I remember when that flare ruined our last minute winner against Brackley.
Would be happy to donate to a fund to pay for any fines incurred from people having a good time at the game.
Perhaps the half-time bucket collection could be used for this purpose as well?
😂
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Not to mention, amongst others
This
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/flare-kills-football-fan-at-world-cup-qualifying-match-1505057.html
and
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2282468/A-young-fan-killed-Corinthians-match-flare-thrown-crowd.html
more tragedy God rest there souls . I may be wrong but I thought it was a smoke bomb not a flare on Saturday. However I was not there so could be wrong
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Ps for the record I don't really agree with flares or smoke bombs at games but this thread like others is making us look silly again
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not caused by flares or smoke bombs, but if anyone wants a reminder of how fire and football don't mix well..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIxN3ypB3rw
I thought the comment at the top of the thread likening a kid throwing a smoke bomb to a serious assault was going to be the most ridiculously stupid non sequitur on this thread
I was wrong
It wasn't a comparison obviously....more an attempt to get Blind Bat to quantify whether there was SOME point where turning in "one of your own" became acceptable.
For the record, I almost certainly wouldn't rat on Saturday's offender since there was no real harm done. If an innocent bystander was injured my view would probably be different.
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The club is responding to the FAs request / demand. They've said they are taking it seriously. If they said anything else it would invite further action from the FA. What they have done is the best they can do to avoid further action against the club.
I'd say the statement is more for the FA than for the supporters. If they said anything else it would attract negative publicity.
If the FA decide to fine the club without any clear evidence that Alty fans were involved that is the time for us to look for a different response from the club.
I don't remember agreeing with you on much before but this is spot on
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I remember when that flare ruined our last minute winner against Brackley.
Would be happy to donate to a fund to pay for any fines incurred from people having a good time at the game.
Perhaps the half-time bucket collection could be used for this purpose as well?
I'm with Jimmy, bucket collection on sat to bail out whoever commited such a heinous crime, I'll donate.
Dinosaurs
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I can't tell whether this is serious. Maybe I'm getting old. Surely a bucket collection would be seen as a de facto protest, and if the club allows it, then the club will be seen as condoning a protest against FA and police rules on safety, which would create the following situation:
1. If anyone does get injured in future the club will be held responsible, for having condoned people 'having a good time'.
2. Any insurance will surely be invalidated
3. The next time our licence to host games is considered, this would be top of the agenda for the meeting (regardless of whether anyone is hurt)
Surely responsible custodians of the club would prioritise this? Surely the top priority, for fans and club alike, is that we can continue to watch matches at Moss Lane? And surely the club would prioritise this without ever hinting, without evidence, that they think Alty fans might have been responsible? This is what they have done. The club statement refers throughout to 'both clubs'. If other people want to jump to conclusions about who they think might be worthy of accusation, that's their concern.
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I can't tell whether this is serious. Maybe I'm getting old. Surely a bucket collection would be seen as a de facto protest, and if the club allows it, then the club will be seen as condoning a protest against FA and police rules on safety, which would create the following situation:
1. If anyone does get injured in future the club will be held responsible, for having condoned people 'having a good time'.
2. Any insurance will surely be invalidated
3. The next time our licence to host games is considered, this would be top of the agenda for the meeting (regardless of whether anyone is hurt)
Surely responsible custodians of the club would prioritise this? Surely the top priority, for fans and club alike, is that we can continue to watch matches at Moss Lane? And surely the club would prioritise this without ever hinting, without evidence, that they think Alty fans might have been responsible? This is what they have done. The club statement refers throughout to 'both clubs'. If other people want to jump to conclusions about who they think might be worthy of accusation, that's their concern.
Oh Jesus Christ. I give up.
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The bit that frustrates me is that I still don't see where the club has criticised any Alty fans in public. Can you show me where this has happened?
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Hoping for plenty of flares and smoke bombs at the game today! Massive game come on Alty!!!
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Hoping for plenty of flares and smoke bombs at the game today! Massive game come on Alty!!!
disgusting I hope the club will be strip searching fans on the way in with one of the offices used to detain this riff raff
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I'm stopping at the bus station shop on the way for a box of fireworks.
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Hoping for plenty of flares and smoke bombs at the game today! Massive game come on Alty!!!
I trust your tongue is firmly in your cheek ...
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I'm stopping at the bus station shop on the way for a box of fireworks.
And a quick game of double dragon ?
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I'm stopping at the bus station shop on the way for a box of fireworks.
And a quick game of double dragon ?
Defo mate,hoping for a quick catch up with Mikey Paul and Star Bar too.
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The FA rules say nothing about mini rockets from londis
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I'm stopping at the bus station shop on the way for a box of fireworks.
And a quick game of double dragon ?
Defo mate,hoping for a quick catch up with Mikey Paul and Star Bar too.
good lad if you see Elliott or waldo tell them that we are not allowed incendiary devices at the game
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I'm stopping at the bus station shop on the way for a box of fireworks.
And a quick game of double dragon ?
Defo mate,hoping for a quick catch up with Mikey Paul and Star Bar too.
good lad if you see Elliott or waldo tell them that we are not allowed incendiary devices at the game
😂