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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Sarf London Alty on December 10, 2012, 11:01:53 PM
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I know the board often get a bit of stick on here but fair play to Mr Rowley and Co for turning a 60k loss into a small profit after our first year back in the regional leagues. Obviously wages and travel costs will have dropped sharply but so will have income through the gate. The very fact such information is even put on our official site for all to see is saying something when compared to a lot of our rivals at this level as well.
What's the deal though with the lease on Moss Lane? 17 years will soon catch up on us. Am I right in thinking the land has to have a sporting use or are we going to have housing developers sniffing round?
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The cup money will be on this years books mate, not last years.
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I know the board often get a bit of stick on here but fair play to Mr Rowley and Co for turning a 60k loss into a small profit after our first year back in the regional leagues. Obviously wages and travel costs will have dropped sharply but so will have income through the gate. The very fact such information is even put on our official site for all to see is saying something when compared to a lot of our rivals at this level as well.
What's the deal though with the lease on Moss Lane? 17 years will soon catch up on us. Am I right in thinking the land has to have a sporting use or are we going to have housing developers sniffing round?
Worries at a minimum I think Champion Hillbilly - when I looked into this with SAFE the lease is effectively a rollover at a peppercorn rent. £65k turnaround and 8th - makes you wonder what a £100k Cup run might have done last year.
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Am I missing something or does this mean we would have made a huge loss were it not for the cup games?
"This confirmed that a surplus of £2,569 was achieved in the financial year to 31 May 2012".
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Ah, brilliant, I panicked for a moment. Well done on that then, superb.
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whats the point in making money if we are going to finish mid table.
progress before profits.
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whats the point in making money if we are going to finish mid table.
progress before profits.
To be fair, the profit made last year equated to a whopping fifty quid a week. The year before was a 60 grand loss and the typical profits over the last few years have been four figures. It's not as if they have been stockpiling cash.
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whats the point in making money if we are going to finish mid table.
progress before profits.
Who would cover a loss?
I think you know that the aim is to break even not make a profit.
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We knew there was an overspend the previous season, so last year the aim was to stay within budget, Full marks to all concerned for achieving that aim.
NEXT year, we will be financially fitter and able to progress in BSP should we run through to the playoffs THIS year :)
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whats the point in making money if we are going to finish mid table.
progress before profits.
To be fair, the profit made last year equated to a whopping fifty quid a week. The year before was a 60 grand loss and the typical profits over the last few years have been four figures. It's not as if they have been stockpiling cash.
Lets re-sign Joe O'Neil and break even.
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whats the point in making money if we are going to finish mid table.
progress before profits.
To be fair, the profit made last year equated to a whopping fifty quid a week. The year before was a 60 grand loss and the typical profits over the last few years have been four figures. It's not as if they have been stockpiling cash.
Lets re-sign Joe O'Neil and break even.
Maybe not Joe O'Neil, but £50 a week would have paid for some young lad to sit on our substitute bench on a pay as you play basis.
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I think a £2 grand profit falls within the definition of "spending every available penny" whilst allowing some contingency for falling gates at the end of a season or some other cash flow problem. Well judged, lads!
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Exactly. There's no way a business like ours can set out at the start to make a two grand profit at the end of the year. If a hundred or so less people came through the gates over the season then the profit might have been a grand instead. We effectively broke even and had a tiny bit left over.
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Well Done... In the current economic climate I think the club have done a great job in achieving a small profit after a 65 grand loss.
Wankers Bankers/Politicians of all sides, please take note
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Ultimately the main point is that we have a club called Altrincham FC to support, the league we play in is of secondary importance.
We are lucky to have a board (and supporters) that realise that.
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Ultimately the main point is that we have a club called Altrincham FC to support, the league we play in is of secondary importance.
We are lucky to have a board (and supporters) that realise that.
The league we play in is of secondary importance? Really? Do you believe that?
Now I see why some are happy with mid table BSN
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i think the point is we'd rather know we have club to support next year and finish mid table bsn than win the conference and go bust....in which case the league is secondary however that does not stop anyone believing we can succeed on a shoestring
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Ultimately the main point is that we have a club called Altrincham FC to support, the league we play in is of secondary importance.
We are lucky to have a board (and supporters) that realise that.
The league we play in is of secondary importance? Really? Do you believe that?
Now I see why some are happy with mid table BSN
I fail to see how anyone can argue with that point.
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The league we play in is massively important, the longer our stay was last time we were down here the less people came to watch, simple as that. We are a football club not a collection of chartered accountants.Im all for balancing the books, but there's self worth also. These crowds of 750 won't hang around if our relegationesque home form isn't sorted out sharpish. It's taken years to build back to where we are now, and it can all drop off again very quickly. The league campaign has been poor and inconsistent just like last season to date. Except this time last season we were a point better off and had just signed jack redshaw. Personally I expect a poor return from the next two games, but we should be claiming six points if we want to start to close this ever increasing gap. A failure to make the playoffs for a second season running would be a complete and utter disaster.
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whats the point in making money if we are going to finish mid table.
progress before profits.
To be fair, the profit made last year equated to a whopping fifty quid a week. The year before was a 60 grand loss and the typical profits over the last few years have been four figures. It's not as if they have been stockpiling cash.
Lets re-sign Joe O'Neil and break even.
Maybe not Joe O'Neil, but £50 a week would have paid for some young lad to sit on our substitute bench on a pay as you play basis.
You are surely not suggesting that we have held on to club funds instead of signing players for £2,500?
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i think the point is we'd rather know we have club to support next year and finish mid table bsn than win the conference and go bust....in which case the league is secondary however that does not stop anyone believing we can succeed on a shoestring
This old chestnut
Or should I say excuse for failure
Our budget is more than enough to be competitive in this league, the manager has said as much. So no more of this shoestring bollocks
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Surely the point of choosing a manager is to get one who can out-perform their budget?
If all that matters is budget then we may as well just print the weekly wage bill of each club and compile a table based on that.
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whats the point in making money if we are going to finish mid table.
progress before profits.
To be fair, the profit made last year equated to a whopping fifty quid a week. The year before was a 60 grand loss and the typical profits over the last few years have been four figures. It's not as if they have been stockpiling cash.
Lets re-sign Joe O'Neil and break even.
Maybe not Joe O'Neil, but £50 a week would have paid for some young lad to sit on our substitute bench on a pay as you play basis.
You are surely not suggesting that we have held on to club funds instead of signing players for £2,500?
we regularly do not field a full quota of substitutes, the club made a (small) profit last year.
How many clubs are in this position.
It baffles me.
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We knew there was an overspend the previous season, so last year the aim was to stay within budget, Full marks to all concerned for achieving that aim.
NEXT year, we will be financially fitter and able to progress in BSP should we run through to the playoffs THIS year :)
Does the "surplus" of approximately £2.5k for the financial year of 2011-12 take into account of covering for / paying off the £60k loss for the 2010-11 financial year? I assumed it would owing to the boards history of clearing debt. If that is the case, our playing budget for last season would have been massively impacted.
Anyway, back to my point anyway, was why not continue to operate at a break even point but make it back by gaining promotion. Assuming that the loss we made in 10/11 was due to signing extra players in our attempt to avoid relegation, why not do the same thing but in an attempt to gain promotion.
I'm not an accountant so I don't really understand the ins-and-outs, but hopefully we will have enough money from the cup run to pay off any outstanding debt and build a really good squad for a big play-off promotion push this season.
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whats the point in making money if we are going to finish mid table.
progress before profits.
To be fair, the profit made last year equated to a whopping fifty quid a week. The year before was a 60 grand loss and the typical profits over the last few years have been four figures. It's not as if they have been stockpiling cash.
Lets re-sign Joe O'Neil and break even.
Maybe not Joe O'Neil, but £50 a week would have paid for some young lad to sit on our substitute bench on a pay as you play basis.
You are surely not suggesting that we have held on to club funds instead of signing players for £2,500?
we regularly do not field a full quota of substitutes, the club made a (small) profit last year.
How many clubs are in this position.
It baffles me.
This figurs was to May 2012. Not December 2012. The money would easily have been spent over the summer on improvements, kits, balls, etc etc. I dont recall us needing many players to cover the bench during June, July and August.
Also remember all those away games where the club would not receive any income until a few weeks or possibly month or so later. I think if you are suggesting the £2500 should have been spent to cover bench for the last few weeks when we have had 4 subs you are being a little blinkered to the wider picture.
Also the club has advised LS he has money to spend. Imagine if he rushed to get a player he didnt really want and he was rubbish, how would you view LS then? He needs to decide who he wants and that may not happen until the transfer window / new year, we just dont know what goes on behind the scenes.
Are we really discussing the values of £2,500 from May????
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The league we play in is massively important, the longer our stay was last time we were down here the less people came to watch, simple as that. We are a football club not a collection of chartered accountants.Im all for balancing the books, but there's self worth also. These crowds of 750 won't hang around if our relegationesque home form isn't sorted out sharpish. It's taken years to build back to where we are now, and it can all drop off again very quickly. The league campaign has been poor and inconsistent just like last season to date. Except this time last season we were a point better off and had just signed jack redshaw. Personally I expect a poor return from the next two games, but we should be claiming six points if we want to start to close this ever increasing gap. A failure to make the playoffs for a second season running would be a complete and utter disaster.
Indeed it's very impressive we've made a small profit but this is a top quality post spot on pete
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The league we play in is massively important, the longer our stay was last time we were down here the less people came to watch, simple as that. We are a football club not a collection of chartered accountants.Im all for balancing the books, but there's self worth also. These crowds of 750 won't hang around if our relegationesque home form isn't sorted out sharpish. It's taken years to build back to where we are now, and it can all drop off again very quickly. The league campaign has been poor and inconsistent just like last season to date. Except this time last season we were a point better off and had just signed jack redshaw. Personally I expect a poor return from the next two games, but we should be claiming six points if we want to start to close this ever increasing gap. A failure to make the playoffs for a second season running would be a complete and utter disaster.
Good post Pete but I don't understand the bit in bold? What are the options other than balancing the books?
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Balancing the books and challenging for the playoffs should not be mutually exclusive events. The board have done a supremely good job of steadying the ship (once again) after the deficit from last year. They have also made it very clear that funds are now available to the manager to strengthen the squad.
Therefore, it's now over to the manager to deliver his side of the bargain. Aside from a few dissenting voices on here, I think the majority of us have given Lee the benefit of the doubt, but we're going to need a really barnstorming second half to this season if we're to achieve our short term aim of reaching the playoff places and staying there. We've done good things on our travels this season and had a decent cup run, but that is currently offset by some truly woeful home form. I believe, barring 2 or 3 additions, the nucleus of a good squad is already basically there, so it's not all doom and gloom. We've got no more room for cock-ups though, or our season could effectively be over by the end of January if we don't step things up.
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Given our small squad how likely is it we will have a very impressive second half of the season?
Injuries and general fatigue will catch up with us.
Also, although we have a load of home games coming up against mid and lower table teams, we also have to play away games against the current top five.
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I did say that we need more players.
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This thread has strayed a bit from the original point but I agree with what Socrates and others have said.
It boils down to this for me; if at the end of this season and having enjoyed two full seasons at the club and we are not in the play offs again then Lee Sinnott should be toast.
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i think the point is we'd rather know we have club to support next year and finish mid table bsn than win the conference and go bust....in which case the league is secondary however that does not stop anyone believing we can succeed on a shoestring
Nothing annoys me more than this argument. One reason is that the two need not be mutually exclusive.
I don't really have the heart to go on with the others, it's ridiculous.
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The league we play in is massively important, the longer our stay was last time we were down here the less people came to watch, simple as that. We are a football club not a collection of chartered accountants.Im all for balancing the books, but there's self worth also. These crowds of 750 won't hang around if our relegationesque home form isn't sorted out sharpish. It's taken years to build back to where we are now, and it can all drop off again very quickly. The league campaign has been poor and inconsistent just like last season to date. Except this time last season we were a point better off and had just signed jack redshaw. Personally I expect a poor return from the next two games, but we should be claiming six points if we want to start to close this ever increasing gap. A failure to make the playoffs for a second season running would be a complete and utter disaster.
Good post Pete but I don't understand the bit in bold? What are the options other than balancing the books?
I'm talking more in terms of supporters.It seems we are now at the stage that rather than being a great by product of the football team performing, good figures on the balance sheet are replacing success on the field as the main stay of watching the club. We seem more preoccupied with financial prudence than the fact we're midtable in the unibond league with arguably two of the best players outside the football league in our squad.We are all guilty of it to an extent.But this next four months are the time for the management to deliver.
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I'm talking more in terms of supporters.It seems we are now at the stage that rather than being a great by product of the football team performing, good figures on the balance sheet are replacing success on the field as the main stay of watching the club. We seem more preoccupied with financial prudence than the fact we're midtable in the unibond league with arguably two of the best players outside the football league in our squad.We are all guilty of it to an extent.But this next four months are the time for the management to deliver.
Good evidence for this is the amount of threads that appear on this forum discussing the financial fortunes of other clubs.
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Balancing the books and challenging for the playoffs should not be mutually exclusive events. The board have done a supremely good job of steadying the ship (once again) after the deficit from last year. They have also made it very clear that funds are now available to the manager to strengthen the squad.
Therefore, it's now over to the manager to deliver his side of the bargain. Aside from a few dissenting voices on here, I think the majority of us have given Lee the benefit of the doubt, but we're going to need a really barnstorming second half to this season if we're to achieve our short term aim of reaching the playoff places and staying there. We've done good things on our travels this season and had a decent cup run, but that is currently offset by some truly woeful home form. I believe, barring 2 or 3 additions, the nucleus of a good squad is already basically there, so it's not all doom and gloom. We've got no more room for cock-ups though, or our season could effectively be over by the end of January if we don't step things up.
Absolutely spot on here mate. Sums everything up if you ask me. Have a Goodwin. :)
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As someone who has a background in the financial world, a "paper profit" doesn't always translate into a cash profit.
The financial accounts and £2.5k profit were from May 2012, almost 7 months ago now so a lot will have changed during that time. Just because a company makes a profit, this doesn't automatically translate to an increase in cash. Cashflow varies from company to company and is an ever changing thing- for example having to pay the brewery for the beer one day, the next seeing a sponsor cough up for their pitchside board. It's quite feasible for companies to lose money year after year but still keep going thanks to good cash management. Conversely, I see many companies that make an awful lot of money on paper but because they don't manage their cash properly, quickly go out of business.
Long and short of it all, its highly unlikely that the board will have that particular £2.5k set aside to spend on players- it will have more than likely been used to provide a bit of financial headroom in the bank.
My God, I REALLY need a new job....
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The league we play in is massively important, the longer our stay was last time we were down here the less people came to watch, simple as that. We are a football club not a collection of chartered accountants.Im all for balancing the books, but there's self worth also. These crowds of 750 won't hang around if our relegationesque home form isn't sorted out sharpish. It's taken years to build back to where we are now, and it can all drop off again very quickly. The league campaign has been poor and inconsistent just like last season to date. Except this time last season we were a point better off and had just signed jack redshaw. Personally I expect a poor return from the next two games, but we should be claiming six points if we want to start to close this ever increasing gap. A failure to make the playoffs for a second season running would be a complete and utter disaster.
Good post Pete but I don't understand the bit in bold? What are the options other than balancing the books?
I'm talking more in terms of supporters.It seems we are now at the stage that rather than being a great by product of the football team performing, good figures on the balance sheet are replacing success on the field as the main stay of watching the club. We seem more preoccupied with financial prudence than the fact we're midtable in the unibond league with arguably two of the best players outside the football league in our squad.We are all guilty of it to an extent.But this next four months are the time for the management to deliver.
I don't think that ten people on a forum being quite pleased we haven't announced bad financial results is really that reflective of the all the support. I'd guess there are 400 people on the terraces who have never even discussed it.
I doubt there are many people that in reality pay their money, see us lose but go home happy with the balance sheet.
If some people are baffled as to why we made £2,000 last May and yet had 4 subs at Boston 5 months later, I'm more baffled about why some people almost seem annoyed we have broken even.
As if its been done to the detriment of the team, which in my view it certainly hasn't.
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It is the old chestnut... twist or stick...
At least Alty are not in dire financial trouble, that can't be a negative. Any more conclusions than that is speculation in my opinion.
My concern is this:
750ish crowds is our income stream without a Sugar Daddy, which we don't have. That equates to a value, I'm not concerned with the exact numbers, call it £10k a home match, £12k with pies and ale, whatever, unless Alty starts to attracting larger crowds 1000+ we may as well get used to the BSCN. The cup game against Burton showed that there is the appetite for footy in Altrincham and surrounding areas. What are the Club doing to attract new support? Alternatively, Alty needs new investment.
For the income stream we have, we are about where we should be. I'm not saying I like it, it just is.
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For the income stream we have, we are about where we should be. I'm not saying I like it, it just is.
Hmmmmmmm......there are only three teams in the division with a higher average attendance than us this season and we have by the clubs own admission 'a very competitive playing budget'. I'm not sure that statement of yours stands up to any level of scrutiny.
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For the income stream we have, we are about where we should be. I'm not saying I like it, it just is.
Hmmmmmmm......there are only three teams in the division with a higher average attendance than us this season and we have by the clubs own admission 'a very competitive playing budget'. I'm not sure that statement of yours stands up to any level of scrutiny.
indeed the manager has already gone on record as saying we have a very competitive playing budget
Happy clappers can't start saying we are about where we should be now
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Yes, we should be in the top few of the BSCN on the basis you suggest, but would equally be in the bottom few of the Conference. We are also part-time with no chance of going full-time. We are likely to be a BSCN <> NC yo-yo club at best without more investment, either by growth in support or a Sugar Daddy. You can't fight facts, money talks in football.
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K
Yes, we should be in the top few of the BSCN on the basis you suggest, but would equally be in the bottom few of the Conference. We are also part-time with no chance of going full-time. We are likely to be a BSCN <> NC yo-yo club at best without more investment, either by growth in support or a Sugar Daddy. You can't fight facts, money talks in football.
but we not yo yo, we midtable BSN
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KYes, we should be in the top few of the BSCN on the basis you suggest, but would equally be in the bottom few of the Conference. We are also part-time with no chance of going full-time. We are likely to be a BSCN <> NC yo-yo club at best without more investment, either by growth in support or a Sugar Daddy. You can't fight facts, money talks in football.
but we not yo yo, we midtable BSN
The string is fully extended.........
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[/ftp]k=topic=16086.msg188842#msg188842 date=1355503361]
KYes, we should be in the top few of the BSCN on the basis you suggest, but would equally be in the bottom few of the Conference. We are also part-time with no chance of going full-time. We are likely to be a BSCN <> NC yo-yo club at best without more investment, either by growth in support or a Sugar Daddy. You can't fight facts, money talks in football.
but we not yo yo, we midtable BSN
The string is fully extended.........
we f**ked if it snaps ;)
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agm reports what agreat job the staff are doing ,keep ploding on debt free
if we feal the need to loan 10 million i would say no
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agm reports what agreat job the staff are doing ,keep ploding on debt free
if we feal the need to loan 10 million i would say no
honest ;D