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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Mrs Warbouys on October 09, 2010, 05:19:50 PM
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Major surgery needed ahead of the fleetwood, starting from in goals.
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Totally agree how many more does he need to concede. Time for Stuarts organisation
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Weve conceeded 19 in 8 games with him in goal, get someone the defence has confidence in back in goal......
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Would we have won today with Stu in goal?
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Who knows,but do you think conceeding 2 a game is acceptable for a keeper?
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Is this really the answer??? On the various diff match threads its quite a lot of Save from Coates! Even non-league keeper of week the other week - The keeper is last line of defence, the opposition need to come through 10 other players to get there - I think there are major issues with the players but i think Coates has at times kept scores as low as they have been - Not one mistake really made as far as i can see also. I think changing the keeper will make no difference as Stu started in net, scored an OG and also conceded goals!
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Not Coates' fault. Blaming the defenders in front of him would be nearer the mark.
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I didn't go today Hughesy, so can't comment on Coates. But he has done well in the games I have seen. Conceding 2 goals a game is not acceptable for any team - I too don't know the answer mate!
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I didn't go today Hughesy, so can't comment on Coates. But he has done well in the games I have seen. Conceding 2 goals a game is not acceptable for any team - I too don't know the answer mate!
Is the answer not relatively straightforward? - players who can retain possession when we get the ball thus giving the defence a breather. Mistakes happen when we're continually under the cosh. Kearney was as important in carrying out this role as he was in an attacking sense. Trouble is where do you get these players when you've got our budget? In the absence of a major input of cash, Ken's ability to get such players in asap from LoW is our only realistic chance of getting out of the bottom 4.
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Seems pretty straight forward - If they dont have the ball, they can not score! I think some of the things on the keeper situation are not going to make a difference, Coates only just broke into No 1 spot - He will need time to arrange things and to build relationships - I think hes been one of the better players so far this season and to srop him would be unfair.
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Weve conceeded 19 in 8 games with him in goal, get someone the defence has confidence in back in goal......
Compared to Stu's 13 from 6, there isn't that much to choose between them IMO
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It cant do any harm in freshening things up in the keeper dept... Who knows. Maybe the back four will feel happier with Stu back in goal and that in itself will spark some confidence....
Trying anything in our present position cannot be a bad thing
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Has anyone read the non league paper today??
'a series of good saves from the visitor's best player goalkeeper James Coates'
He also was given an 8 out of 10.
Maybe the problem area is elsewhere...
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I think the problem lies with constantly inviting pressure onto our defence via a midfield which don't really have a plan of what to do to going forward. Hoof, their defence wins it, they come forward. It's not Coates' fault, and I don't think Coburn could do much better than that when we are having to defend so much. But, how many times can Coates play and concede without it taking a big knock on confidence? Maybe Stu's experience is what we need right now, not a keeper yet to form relationships with his defence.
I suppose it can't hurt to give it a try and change.. Maybe change formation as well. I'd go 4-3-3.
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Quite simply the "creative midfielder" who some described Crowell as came back and he has been found wanting. Yesterday again he played a full 90 mins and was ineffectective. If people respond by saying he's not match fit, why isn't he putting in extra effort at a gym etc.
He is a luxury we can not afford in a basement battle, bring on Hewson, Danylyk & Lawton(the latter two playing throughout the past two seasons where we found ourselves comfortably mid-table) who are tough tackling players who will make an impact. How many wasted fancy chips from 40 yards, woeful strikes wide, stray passes does it take when there is an easy outball before the man in the dug out sees what's happening. We accommodate one player at the detriment of the team as a whole.
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Quite simply the "creative midfielder" who some described Crowell as came back and he has been found wanting. Yesterday again he played a full 90 mins and was ineffectective. If people respond by saying he's not match fit, why isn't he putting in extra effort at a gym etc.
He is a luxury we can not afford in a basement battle, bring on Hewson, Danylyk & Lawton(the latter two playing throughout the past two seasons where we found ourselves comfortably mid-table) who are tough tackling players who will make an impact. How many wasted fancy chips from 40 yards, woeful strikes wide, stray passes does it take when there is an easy outball before the man in the dug out sees what's happening. We accommodate one player at the detriment of the team as a whole.
I want to see Densmore in central midfield every week.. Crowell hasn't impressed me either.
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Quite simply the "creative midfielder" who some described Crowell as came back and he has been found wanting. Yesterday again he played a full 90 mins and was ineffectective. If people respond by saying he's not match fit, why isn't he putting in extra effort at a gym etc.
He is a luxury we can not afford in a basement battle, bring on Hewson, Danylyk & Lawton(the latter two playing throughout the past two seasons where we found ourselves comfortably mid-table) who are tough tackling players who will make an impact. How many wasted fancy chips from 40 yards, woeful strikes wide, stray passes does it take when there is an easy outball before the man in the dug out sees what's happening. We accommodate one player at the detriment of the team as a whole.
I agree that given our plight, starting with Danylyk and Lawton is probably a good idea. Neither have much offensive skill in their locker, but they're willing workers and make it difficult for the opposition. We need inspiration from somewhere going forward though. If they are to play then we either need a three man midfield (Densmore or Crowll in ther making things happen), or we need our wingers to really step it up and create things. A fully fit Chris Denham and Nicky Clee I sincerely believe can do this. However, they both seem to pick up a LOT of niggly injuries. In fairness, they've shown commitment by playing half-fit on a number of occasions. It's just we really need them now.
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Dont forget two of the goals in last 2 games come from penaltys , i think coates is a good keeper but he is getting little cover from his defenders
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Dont blame Coates, to me he is not to blame.
Think he has done a goog job.
Got to look at other parts of the field.
Crowell isn't the player that we new, and the huge dissapointment of Twiss.
These players are not Fit.WHY?
If they read this, please prove me wrong and show some spirit.
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I am utterly bored of watching Coates let things bounce in the six yard box and set himself for the save everytime.
I'm also willing to give Twiss 2-3 games of actually playing before I cast a final decision on him.
He is suffering the reverse of "Crowell Forum Syndrome" when he got better each week after leaving. He gets worse each week on here without playing.
Crowell can stay in Newport for me..if we need someone to do backflicks or chip 7ft keepers like he tried yesterday we'lll ring him.
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Totally agree with Ecky. Talkin from an ex goalkeepers perspective Coates makes himself look better than he actually is. He's a very good shot stopper but he doesn't command his area at all and just sets himself up for the save for the ladies every time which can't give the defenders much confidence in him at all. As for Crowell,he really is a waste of a wage at this battling time.
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I agree about Coates, i still don't think rushden's 2nd was his fault but right now we need a commanding experienced keeper in this situation. I barely saw Crowell b4 he went other than on dvd but had a suspicion he got better once he left. My question is was he like this last season or has his stint in australia changed him into a bit of a fancy dan?
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I am utterly bored of watching Coates let things bounce in the six yard box and set himself for the save everytime.
I'm also willing to give Twiss 2-3 games of actually playing before I cast a final decision on him.
He is suffering the reverse of "Crowell Forum Syndrome" when he got better each week after leaving. He gets worse each week on here without playing.
Crowell can stay in Newport for me..if we need someone to do backflicks or chip 7ft keepers like he tried yesterday we'lll ring him.
Even in these depressing times, that genuinely made me laugh out loud :D
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My question is was he like this last season or has his stint in australia changed him into a bit of a fancy dan?
in the 5 games i saw him for us last season, particularly away games at H&Y and Barrow, he completely bossed the midfield box-to-box. He also could drill a shot at goal. I only saw him in one preseason and he looked to have a good touch if not the engine.
Looks like he has been watching more Matt LeTissier videos than myself. Trying to lob the keeper from 20 yards, what a joke.
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Come on lads, Coburn aint the answer.
He is A SHOT STOPPER, that is it.
He does not control his box.
Just look at the vidieo evedence.
Flappers went out in the 20's and 30's.
Sorry boys and girls.
If you thing SC should stay, well so should have GH.
TIME TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE.
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Thats us told then.
Can't really see the connection between SC staying and GH going.
Lets stick with Coates then. I'll look forward to watching him rooted to his line while flinging himself about like Barthez saving the shots that come from the crosses he never moved for.
I mean dont let the fact we concede 2 or more in virtually every game he plays get in the way of a good rant.
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Come on lads, Coburn aint the answer.
He is A SHOT STOPPER, that is it.
He does not control his box.
Just look at the vidieo evedence.
Flappers went out in the 20's and 30's.
Sorry boys and girls.
If you thing SC should stay, well so should have GH.
TIME TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE.
That's the biggest load of bollocks that's been posted on this forum for a long time. Stuart Coburn is one of the best goalkeepers ever to play for this football club and was one of the main reasons we turned things around in 2004 and eventually achieved promotion from Conf North at the first attempt. His saves and organisational skills have also been a big part of the last two (relatively successful) seasons.
I know people are looking for scapegoats left, right and centre at the moment, but to say the things you have about a true Alty legend is just nonsense.
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Thats us told then.
Can't really see the connection between SC staying and GH going.
Lets stick with Coates then. I'll look forward to watching him rooted to his line while flinging himself about like Barthez saving the shots that come from the crosses he never moved for.
I mean dont let the fact we concede 2 or more in virtually every game he plays get in the way of a good rant.
As I mentioned before, Coburns average this season is hardly setting the world on fire...
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I really like Stu and genuinely do think he's one of the better keepers in Non-league. Crosses are not his strong point though. Nor is kicking, which I think might be related to that back injury of his that crops up every now and again.
I'm all for putting him back in, but let's not kid ourselves that it'll be clean sheet after clean sheet if/when he returns.
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Maybe giving Coates some support and faith since hes done nothing wrong and kept the scores down! Hes a good keeper and the future of the club!
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Come on lads, Coburn aint the answer.
He is A SHOT STOPPER, that is it.
He does not control his box.
Just look at the vidieo evedence.
Flappers went out in the 20's and 30's.
Sorry boys and girls.
If you thing SC should stay, well so should have GH.
TIME TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE.
That's the biggest load of bollocks that's been posted on this forum for a long time. Stuart Coburn is one of the best goalkeepers ever to play for this football club and was one of the main reasons we turned things around in 2004 and eventually achieved promotion from Conf North at the first attempt. His saves and organisational skills have also been a big part of the last two (relatively successful) seasons.
I know people are looking for scapegoats left, right and centre at the moment, but to say the things you have about a true Alty legend is just nonsense.
Totally agree Alty 1981!
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Maybe giving Coates some support and faith since hes done nothing wrong and kept the scores down! Hes a good keeper and the future of the club!
If you're just looking at the amount of shots he stops then he hasn't done anything wrong but if you look at the bigger picture then there is alot of room for improvement. He is scared to death of crosses and his organisational skills are non existant which is part of the reason he has so many shots to stop! And the future of the club he most certainly is not!
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Stu is very vocal when he plays... I dont think that can be said for Coates..
A change just to freshen things up (as previously said by me) cant do any harm....
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Stuey everyday for me, a class act and will install confidence in the back four. If he was becomming complacement he wont be now !
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I've no idea why Stu was dropped in the first place?
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By his own standards Stuart didnt have the best of starts to the season. We are used to him making very few mistakes.
We made a change to try and freshen things up and we must make a change to try something different again.
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I love it when people say "He's a good shot stopper', surely that's a reason why they are a goalkeeper in the first place ?.. Its all the other bits that are 'addons' and good extras ?
Stuart Coburn has it all as far as I am concerned, an excellent all round keeper and one that can 'stop those shots' and also organise and command the area, and also has been at the club long enough to know what it means to the club\ fans to be successful.
I haven't seen much of Coates but from what I have read and heard I'd like Stu to be put back in, he'd be a good character to have on the pitch also
I think the goals conceded so far tell the story, and I don't just mean the amount but I mean the way they have gone in also.
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Well if my last post was the 'the biggest load of bollocks posted for a long time, read on.(there is a lot of megger bollocks posted on this site)
Ecky, what I'm saying, is enough is enough.
Stuart is a great servent to the club, but a time has come when things have to change. That is what I'm saying when I mentioned Graham Heathcote.
Alty 1981,Yes Stuart did a fab job in 2004 and for more years, but we are in 2010 now.
Stuart has cost us points this year, sorry to say(Crawley and Darlington)
I dont think in any match report, has Coats cost us points?(got us a point against Kidderminster)
I'm not saying he is the best keaper in the world, but I feel he is the best at the moment at the club.
OK BRING IT ON, I CAN TAKE IT!!
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Its all about opinions and if you put your opinions on a forum then you run the risk of getting them shot down, just like I have done.
I've think personally I have been pretty clear on why I have no confidence in Coates. He doesnt leave his line at all and just sets himself for the shot every time. Thats not an opnion its a fact.
As I also said, I am sure Stuart himself will be disapointed with some slips at the start of the season. He remains a better keeper than Coates in my opinion and should be back in on Saturday. You think Coates is better.
I suggest arm wrestling on that table just inside the door of the Noel White to decide who is right :)
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I can't comment on Coates one iota as I've never seen him play.
However, I feel very strongly, and always will, that Stuart Coburn is a great keeper and far more than just a "shot stopper" who can't command his box or organise the defence. He's got a few good years left in him yet if he can stay fit.
I can't wait to be back for the Gateshead game a week on Saturday and to get behind the team whoever is on the pitch.
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Simple resolution:
I like James Coates, but I like Stuart Coburn. But which is better?
There's only one way to find out......
FFFFFFFFFFIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
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Stu was dropped after Mansfield when I was almost alone in condemning him over the first two goals. The Stu of a few years ago was an infinitely better keeper than James Coates, but right now I honestly believe there is very little to choose between them. This does not in any way diminish Stu's status as an Alty legend, but nobody goes on forever unfortunately.
Stu carries a couple of ongoing injury problems these days, so even if he gets back into the side we need decent cover for him. We've taken the right line in trying younger keepers. Russell Saunders wasn't the answer, and whilst I think James Coates is technically a better keeper than Russell, I don't see him as the long term answer either.
We have to be looking forward, as well as at today, and trying to recruit a bright young keeper who can learn from Stu - who I hope is at least giving James some tips !
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as i said after the Kettering game....
Without wanting to be negative, the lad is a great shot stopper but he is terrible at dealing with crosses and seems to lack control of his area. Playing with a back 3 we continually get overlapped down the flanks, giving them an easy cross. The disappointing thing last night was these crosses weren't drilled or whipped in towards the penalty area but floated in to the 6 yard line. Coates needs to be more decisive and come off his line to catch or punch it. If not we should get coburn back in.
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OK Mark arm wrestling it is.
You called it, so I will be in the Noel White at one on Sat.
Think we should charge a fiver to watch the contest, as it would bring some good money to the club ;)!!
At the end of the day we should be looking in other areas than the goalkeeping spot.
How many shots did we have on Saturday?
ps, yes I know it's a forum, thats why I posted my comments.
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OK Mark arm wrestling it is.
You called it, so I will be in the Noel White at one on Sat.
Think we should charge a fiver to watch the contest, as it would bring some good money to the club ;)!!
At the end of the day we should be looking in other areas than the goalkeeping spot.
How many shots did we have on Saturday?
ps, yes I know it's a forum, thats why I posted my comments.
A couple, none on target..
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Coates for me. Also how can we justify having who I believe is our highest earner subbing it? Is it time for the two parties to go their separate ways?
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Coates for me. Also how can we justify having who I believe is our highest earner subbing it? Is it time for the two parties to go their separate ways?
Oh look..another post designed to cause a row and some division. Its seems you like rolling in these hand grenades and then watching the effects.
Do you have some sort of agenda we should know about "John"?
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Not at all. Just stating my opinion about who should be in goal and what I believe the facts to be about wages. Sorry if you don't like that.
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Also how can we justify having who I believe is our highest earner subbing it?
1. He isn't.
2. I'm sorry have I missed something, has Stu been on the bench all season? is going to be on the bench all season. I absolutely guarantee you Stuart will play 75% of our games this season at least.
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Not at all. Just stating my opinion about who should be in goal and what I believe the facts to be about wages. Sorry if you don't like that.
Whether you feel Coburn or Coates should currently be the keeper is up to you.
If you feel that after the loyal service Stuart Coburn has given this club (without a contract) he should just be "released" then you're a disgrace.
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Without giving away anything I shouldn't I can assure you absolutely 100% that Stuart Coburn is NOT the highest earning player at the Club
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Coburn wasn't playing well, he was dropped. Coates is playing to the same standard Coburn was when he was dropped, so he should be also. Not rocket science.
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Also how can we justify having who I believe is our highest earner subbing it?
1. He isn't.
2. I'm sorry have I missed something, has Stu been on the bench all season? is going to be on the bench all season. I absolutely guarantee you Stuart will play 75% of our games this season at least.
To play 75% (approx) he would only be able to miss a maximum of 12 matches. He's already missed 8, so given usual luck with injuries he'd struggle to reach that tally even if he regained his place on Saturday. He might manage 60% with luck.
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Given the amount of goals we're shipping maybe we should play them both in goal and sacrifice one midfield place?!
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2. I'm sorry have I missed something, has Stu been on the bench all season? is going to be on the bench all season. I absolutely guarantee you Stuart will play 75% of our games this season at least.
To play 75% (approx) he would only be able to miss a maximum of 12 matches. He's already missed 8, so given usual luck with injuries he'd struggle to reach that tally even if he regained his place on Saturday. He might manage 60% with luck.
FA Trophy final innit?
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Not at all. Just stating my opinion about who should be in goal and what I believe the facts to be about wages. Sorry if you don't like that.
Whether you feel Coburn or Coates should currently be the keeper is up to you.
If you feel that after the loyal service Stuart Coburn has given this club (without a contract) he should just be "released" then you're a disgrace.
So I take it you won't be buying me a pint before the Fleetwood game? Maybe harsh sentiments from me, but loyalty will not keep us up. Plus I don't regard James Coates as the reason we are leaking so many goals. Anyway, we will see what KM's opinion is about who is currently the better keeper on Saturday, so I will say no more on this topic until then.
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All this talk means nothing,we do not manage the club.KM will decide who's in goal and thats the end of it.
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John W & others who come on here declaring who the highest earners @ the club are. I WOULD LOVE ACCESS TO YOUR INFO. I don't know & I am onlly the Company Secretary & Matchday Secretary who pays out the players' cheques in plain white envelopes with their names on. So you know it alls are either a director or the Manager. SO MUCH FOR YOUR INSIDE KNOWLEDGE.
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:-\ I'd put money on twiss being on more dollar than coburn thats for sure
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I'm not sure why Coates is being singled out at the moment, so I thought I'd give my opinion on the Histon game and three goals they scored.
Their first goal was a penalty. Coates didn't save it. Goalies don't often save pens. nothing he could do about that. You could maybe question why Lawton tackled their fella from behind when the ball was running away from them both.
Their second goal was a cross across the pen box where their guy ran in unopposed. More questions about stopping the cross and following runners than the goalie being at fault.
Their third goal was a run from their own half by their fella. Gets to the box at puts it the far corner. Coates narrowed his angles and covered the near post. Again more questions about defending (from defenders and midfield). Possibly Alty were pushing forward trying to get a goal back. But just because he let three in doesn't mean the keeper had a nightmare.
I like Coburn, he's been a great player and possibly still is, but I don't think Coates deserves the stick he's getting.
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What I don't understand is what people say about organisational skills. From whenever I have seen it, he sets up his walls for a freekick right, what more organisational skills does he need? He shouldnt hold the centre halves hands and tell them where to go for 90 minutes. Most of what Stu shouts is just second nature to any good player anyway. An example of this is where he shouts "squeeze" (or get out), which is where the defenders push up the pitch. Any defender worth his salt will clear the ball and follow it out.
Without having anything against you Ecky, you said that Stu had a bad start to the season by his standards- what is to say that Coates hasnt just had a bad run?
IMO, both keepers are of a similar quality, however KM appears to be thinking about the future.
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Coates has done nothing to deserve all this stick, defence begins the moment we lose the ball, the goalie is the last line, and no matter how good Stuart is I think that Coates will be the future.
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He should be dropped not because he is not good enough, but because he is constantly conceding and that is going to seriously knock his confidence. Whether he is conceding through fault of his own or through the team (I personally think the team) it doesn't matter, he wont be the most confident player at the moment so Stu should be brought back in because that is what we need right now.
I would say the same if the roles were reversed and it was Coburn in this current situation.
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So other than setting up a wall all a goalkeeper has to do is stop shots? I give up.
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Coates has done nothing to deserve all this stick, defence begins the moment we lose the ball, the goalie is the last line, and no matter how good Stuart is I think that Coates will be the future.
On the contrary, confidence comes from the back and spreads forward through the team, but starting from the keeper.
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He should be dropped not because he is not good enough, but because he is constantly conceding and that is going to seriously knock his confidence. Whether he is conceding through fault of his own or through the team (I personally think the team) it doesn't matter, he wont be the most confident player at the moment so Stu should be brought back in because that is what we need right now.
I would say the same if the roles were reversed and it was Coburn in this current situation.
If he's lacking in confidence, dropping him isn't going to help is it ? D'oh ! ! !
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I see what you mean, give him time.. let him grow and form links with his defence and confidence will grow.. the only way to do this is to keep him in and dropping him wont help..
For me we do not have the time to sit around and wait for this to happen.. Something needs to be done to try and stop us leaking goals and we should start from the back.
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I think we're very lucky to have two quality keepers....and it is testament to coates' quality that many fans are split on who should be in nets.
For me I'd stick Stuart back in......he's made a few errors for the first time in a decade....I think they're very similar shot stoppers, Stu commands his area better and coates has better distribution.....I think we need a few clean sheets and are more likely to get those and build confidence with stu......he's also vastly more experienced.
Oh and stuart has a good record saving pens...he may just have got that last one!
And where have all these know it alls suddenly appeared from causing trouble with their inside knowledge?
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Oh and stuart has a good record saving pens...he may just have got that last one!
Don't know about the Rushden one, as it was hit with such power. The one at Histon it seemed Coates waited for the ball to be struck before moving, and probably should had kept it out.
As people are saying, Coates is one for the future. Keyword there is future.For the foreseeable future though, I feel more confident with Stu in goal