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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Mrs Warbouys on September 02, 2010, 11:40:33 PM
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I think its pretty obvious from tonights meeting that graham wont be manager for much longer.And what other changes that brings,who knows,but the club is in a very healthy position and was here before all of us,and will be here long after us all, whatever changes might come about.I left the meeting tonight feeling an era in the clubs history is coming to an end. And if change does come,we must keep behind the lads,and be open minded to whatever changes may or may not take place.
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"....the glory that was Rome is of another day....." (Tony Bennett for younger readers).
The glory that was Alty is also of another day - but it will come again if we believe in the club, and in whatever fate throws our way.
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Suspect that you may well be right there, Hughesy.
The key moment for me was his conditional response to the direct question as to whether he wished to remain as Alty manager.
The enjoyment gained from his work appears to have deserted him.
Whether this loss is temporary or permanent remains to be seen.
I just think that we need a resolution as to whether he is staying or leaving sooner rather than later and hope the current uncertainty isn't allowed to linger.
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The board now have some very difficult decisions to make in the next few days.
I'm off to bed after one of the weirdest nights for years.
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Graham has done really well in his time as manager.But if he should choose to go,we must remember, sh*t budget or not this is still one of the biggest jobs in nonleague football,and we would be flooded with applications from all over,from people wanting this job,not forgetting ken who is already here,but it would be a very long and distinquished list of applicants,no matter what the financial constraints are
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"....the glory that was Rome is of another day....." (Tony Bennett for younger readers).
Is that the Tony Bennett who used to manage the Safeway in Hale?
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Will be an end of an era but like Hughesy says life goes on and the club will still be here.....if anything i think it would be best to get it done now and replace Graham and give a new manager a good run at it .Either that or wait until end of the season and give GH a chance to coach a full final year. maybe he can say he will go at the end of the year and we can start looking now and have a seamless transtion to a new manager ?,we dont want it to drift on for a few months with morale getting worse amongst the team and management and getting left behind at the arse end of the table.
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I got the same impression about GH as Hughesy and the majority of other people in room did last night..
I was hoping to come away with the impression that the fight back starts tomorrow against Kiddy ..
Sadly I came back to Shrewsbury feeling flat and that GH was tired and frustrated that after such a good season last season he now feels the team is back to square one..
I feel that if we do not beat Kiddy tomorrow then it could be the end of GH at ML
I hope I am proved wrong and that we kick on from now on in...
Cmon Alty.
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Very sad reading on the main site. I would have liked GH to be leaving at the end of a season rather than the beginning, both for the benefit of the club and also because the man deserves to be saluted for his tremendous efforts for this club. Its hard to do that when the immediate future involves cracking on in the league from a worrying position.
Still, GH believes in honesty and we can never argue with that. He has done, and continues to do one of the hardest jobs in non-league football with success. Whatever happens he is the figurehead of our resurrection in recent years and to me that means a lot. It will be a sad way to go, but at least he's done it honestly and even dino couldnt argue that the mans given everything in him to Altrincham FC. Replacing him will be difficult but not impossible.
For the club, I think we have the right man to continue his work in Ken. I dont see why we should change our ethos as a club, and having someone there who understands it is surely a good step forward.
To Graham, I salute you, whatever happens! Now lets go out there and murder Kiddy tomorrow!
COME ON YOU RED N WHITE B@ST@RDS!!!!!!
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It would be sad to see GH go- looking at him from the main stand on Saturday he looked resigned to defeat once the second goal went in. Then he didn't have the will to get in to the game and was looking like he'd had enough- so may be a change is needed unless we can get a good run going and GH can get his enthusiasm back. It must be hard for GH to keep going all these years with our budget,
I'd like to see some one totally different next, maybe a young manager - but we'll have to wait and see,
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Well done to all who attended last night, and thank you for asking the questions we have all been waiting to hear answers to.
No doubt about it, tomorrow is a massive day for Alty, and it sounds like it could potentially be GH's last stand.
Hughesy is right, whatever happens tomorrow and this season, the club will remain and rebuild, and we as fans have a massive part to play in supporting the playing and management staff moving forward, whoever they may be.
Its been a really weird week. I hope tomorrow turns up some positives and we can all have something to smile about.
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I don't claim to be any sort of pshyco analyst, but having listened to GH last night, my own view is that GH is going through a bit of a mid life crisis !
I would suggest that the general sombre mood has been brought on not only by the recent poor run of results, but by his own recent family bereavement.
I know from my own personal experience that such an event does make you stand back and reassess the 'meaning of life' and what you are on this earth to do, and to question what you really want from the rest of your own life.
I just hope that both Graham and/or the board do not rush into any hasty decisions that they may live to regret.
I heard his comments about wanting to win football matches, and not be fighting relegation etc, and I'm sure that is what everyone at Alty wants to see.
However, one has to be realistic and accept, or at least acknowledge, the financial constraints that ANY manger of Alty would be placed under in trying to win matches and avoid relegation. A change of manager won't change the financial plight of the club.
GH has done a tremendous job in the past, and can continue to do a great job in the future. He knows the club through and through and if he was to leave then I think it would be a big step backwards for the club.
At the moment he needs a pat on the back or a sympathetic arm around him to reassure him that he has an important and valued job to do.
At the moment he is looking at all the negatives, and disregarding the positives. There may not appear to be many positives at the moment.
Does he really want to spend the rest of his Saturday afternoons trudging round Tesco or Sainsburys ?
If needs be, take a couple of weeks off recharge the batteries, let KM take the strain, and come back recharged looking at the positives.
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It's a shame we aren't a slightly bigger club, because GH would be perfect as a Director of Football sort of role with his knowledge of his club and non-league, and would help to support the next man, be it Ken or someone else.
My only slight unease is that he has brought the players in this season and now realises some aren't good enough - is this because he had to make do with a certain level of player, or was it an error of judgment?
Interesting times ahead - I wonder who'll be in the dug out for Gateshead away?
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I don't claim to be any sort of pshyco analyst, but having listened to GH last night, my own view is that GH is going through a bit of a mid life crisis !
I would suggest that the general sombre mood has been brought on not only by the recent poor run of results, but by his own recent family bereavement.
I know from my own personal experience that such an event does make you stand back and reassess the 'meaning of life' and what you are on this earth to do, and to question what you really want from the rest of your own life.
I just hope that both Graham and/or the board do not rush into any hasty decisions that they may live to regret.
I heard his comments about wanting to win football matches, and not be fighting relegation etc, and I'm sure that is what everyone at Alty wants to see.
However, one has to be realistic and accept, or at least acknowledge, the financial constraints that ANY manger of Alty would be placed under in trying to win matches and avoid relegation. A change of manager won't change the financial plight of the club.
GH has done a tremendous job in the past, and can continue to do a great job in the future. He knows the club through and through and if he was to leave then I think it would be a big step backwards for the club.
At the moment he needs a pat on the back or a sympathetic arm around him to reassure him that he has an important and valued job to do.
At the moment he is looking at all the negatives, and disregarding the positives. There may not appear to be many positives at the moment.
Does he really want to spend the rest of his Saturday afternoons trudging round Tesco or Sainsburys ?
If needs be, take a couple of weeks off recharge the batteries, let KM take the strain, and come back recharged looking at the positives.
I think you make a very valid point in that statement........
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I'm afraid I can't take the mild mannered view of the posts above.
Last night was an absolute disgrace.
As I predicted in the meeting, fair play to John Laidlar for making a non sensational report out of the train crash that was last night.
There is no way he can be be in charge in Saturday after when he said last night. Surely he doesn't want to be in charge from what was said last night anyway.
He may as well have stood there and said
"Everythings absolutley sh*t, apart from 5-6 decent players and a 1000 kids at Hale Barns United, and its going to get no better at all. I ain't going to resign because then I'll get no money at all. So come on then board members...what are you going to do about it?"
Everything he said last night was building up to a resignation that never came.
I don't know where to start with it..
Another complete and utter PR disaster.
How on earth can he continue after what was said last night?
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I'm afraid I can't take the mild mannered view of the posts above.
Last night was an absolute disgrace.
As I predicted in the meeting, fair play to John Laidlar for making a non sensational report out of the train crash that was last night.
There is no way he can be be in charge in Saturday after when he said last night. Surely he doesn't want to be in charge from what was said last night anyway.
He may as well have stood there and said
"Everythings absolutley sh*t, apart from 5-6 decent players and a 1000 kids at Hale Barns United, and its going to get no better at all. I ain't going to resign because then I'll get no money at all. So come on then board members...what are you going to do about it?"
Everything he said last night was building up to a resignation that never came.
I don't know where to start with it..
Another complete and utter PR disaster.
How on earth can he continue after what was said last night?
I think that statement is a tad extreme Mark .. I am hoping that the players respond with a "Ill Show him how fkn good I am" attitude rather than a "Sod it" attitude"..
As I said last night I am the eternal optimist when it comes to Alty..
I guess by ten to five tomorrow afternoon we will know one way or another...
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I'm afraid I can't take the mild mannered view of the posts above.
Last night was an absolute disgrace.
As I predicted in the meeting, fair play to John Laidlar for making a non sensational report out of the train crash that was last night.
There is no way he can be be in charge in Saturday after when he said last night. Surely he doesn't want to be in charge from what was said last night anyway.
He may as well have stood there and said
"Everythings absolutley sh*t, apart from 5-6 decent players and a 1000 kids at Hale Barns United, and its going to get no better at all. I ain't going to resign because then I'll get no money at all. So come on then board members...what are you going to do about it?"
Everything he said last night was building up to a resignation that never came.
I don't know where to start with it..
Another complete and utter PR disaster.
How on earth can he continue after what was said last night?
Wow, was it really that bad? The report on the website didn't imply it was that serious! :(
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I was stuck in Scotland last night, but seeing this thread doesnt surprise me at all. A better performance and a win would change everything, GH has always been brutally honest and straight as a die, this is really all about the players now, I admit sometimes the way things are handled PR wise make me squirm, but rather this than the lies and b..sh.t you get from other BSP managers that we all know!
The club remains in a very healthy state, well run, great fans, so let's not go overboard yet, remember Lewes!
Come on Alty!
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It was always going to be a struggle this season and i don't think Graham leaving will be the answer to our problems. Yes it was very depressing last night but remember we are only 6 games into a 46 game campaign. I know Graham has already concluded that we are not good enough in certain areas but if we find that someone just to take the goalscoring burden and get some of our injured players back, we can turn this around easily with the 40 matches we have to go. This isn't all the doom and gloom being suggested, one win and spirits will rise, that's all we need. You never know we may just click on Saturday and play flowing, attacking football and win 3-0 with Mccarthy scoring 2. It is by no means over for us and we have to do our bit this weekend to help that. Graham should stay and achieve the aim for the season which is to stay up which i am confident we will. For the good of the players, fans and manager, the game on Saturday has to be a win, not because if we lose we are definitely going down but for confidence, motivation and spirit.
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It was always going to be a struggle this season and i don't think Graham leaving will be the answer to our problems. Yes it was very depressing last night but remember we are only 6 games into a 46 game campaign. I know Graham has already concluded that we are not good enough in certain areas but if we find that someone just to take the goalscoring burden and get some of our injured players back, we can turn this around easily with the 40 matches we have to go. This isn't all the doom and gloom being suggested, one win and spirits will rise, that's all we need. You never know we may just click on Saturday and play flowing, attacking football and win 3-0 with Mccarthy scoring 2. It is by no means over for us and we have to do our bit this weekend to help that. Graham should stay and achieve the aim for the season which is to stay up which i am confident we will. For the good of the players, fans and manager, the game on Saturday has to be a win, not because if we lose we are definitely going down but for confidence, motivation and spirit.
Well said ;D
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Sadly I couldn't be at last night's meeting because of work commitments, having read the comments on the forum this morning and pondered the various thoughts, I would comment as follow;
i) GH is clearly not in a good place at present because of things that have happened both on and off the pitch
ii) GH comes out with comments about losing passion for the game and considering his position because he knows that at no point in the next Millenium will the board sack him or accept his resignation! He's threatened this before and GG would not entertain it, thereby GH knows (to a point) he's infallible.
iii) The only way GH will leave this club is if he walks and doesn't listen to the board. I would suggest this will never happen, because who realistically wants to give up their income in the current economic climate?
iv) If GH did go, we have a ready made replacement standing next to him. KM is the only one who has showed and real passion so far this season and has done it in a professional and dignified way
v) The players we have at this club are largely good enough - the players brought in over the close season have league experience and are clearly not rubbish. They may just need coercing, coaching and and arm around their shoulder. The difference between this league and L2 is minimal and most of the players we have brought in have played at that level
vi) Despite a tough start I am still optimistic that we can get out of this mess, play some decent football (We've done it in patches already) and start scoring goals - it only takes one and the flood gates will open (my glass is half full today ;D)
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S(ALTY)YOU COULD WELL BE CORRECT over GH and the death in his family,i still have trouble when i think of my father and he died a couple of months back now.
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Ray,
I too am the eternal optimist and I will back the team 100% on Saturday.
My interpretation of the meeting last night was that Graham has done all he can and has no interest in doing this any more.
I am happy to be wrong and this is just my opinion.
This is far far deeper than who we have played so far and if we win Saturday.
Someone tell me anything that was said that offered one bit of hope last night in terms of the team and his future?
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Stubman has it right for me here. Graham has spoken before about leaving but knows he has the safest job in football. I think the board need to grow some bollocks this time and do what is right for the club.
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I take it you mean sack GH??
I really couldn't think of anything worse at the moment.
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I have to say that Ecky is one of the most committed Alty fans I've come across and is generally 1,000% supportive
However, circumstances are different at present and, despite not having been there last night I have to share Ecky's concerns and also commend him for his honesty.It is very easy not to post things like Ecky has and leave yourself open to criticism from your peers but he did post and i applaud him for that.
Burying our collective heads in the sand isn't going to resolve anything.
I lost my Mum best part of two years ago and I'm still affected by it to this day. I have a fairly mundane 9-5 job which has been impacted on, so to have such huge upheaval in your personal life whilst trying to manage a team which, if we are honest has overachieved for years on the budget and support throughthe gates must be nigh on impossible.
Maybe Graham just needs a bit of time out? I would not be so impudent as to suggest anything either way. If he did take some time off he might fall back in love with the challenge, that's for him to decide and nobody (other than his family) has the right to try to influence him either way.
Whatever happens managerially we are in something of a mess on the field and sadly singing louder and getting behind the team more (were that possible) wont score any goals or keep any clean sheets. Realism is I am afraid needed and it may be that substantial change is also required.
Our major enemy is complacency....There will come a point where things no longer 'work out alright' and we have to be prepared for that and accept it if and when it happens
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Sadly I couldn't be at last night's meeting because of work commitments, having read the comments on the forum this morning and pondered the various thoughts, I would comment as follow;
i) GH is clearly not in a good place at present because of things that have happened both on and off the pitch
ii) GH comes out with comments about losing passion for the game and considering his position because he knows that at no point in the next Millenium will the board sack him or accept his resignation! He's threatened this before and GG would not entertain it, thereby GH knows (to a point) he's infallible.iii) The only way GH will leave this club is if he walks and doesn't listen to the board. I would suggest this will never happen, because who realistically wants to give up their income in the current economic climate?
iv) If GH did go, we have a ready made replacement standing next to him. KM is the only one who has showed and real passion so far this season and has done it in a professional and dignified way
v) The players we have at this club are largely good enough - the players brought in over the close season have league experience and are clearly not rubbish. They may just need coercing, coaching and and arm around their shoulder. The difference between this league and L2 is minimal and most of the players we have brought in have played at that level
vi) Despite a tough start I am still optimistic that we can get out of this mess, play some decent football (We've done it in patches already) and start scoring goals - it only takes one and the flood gates will open (my glass is half full today ;D)
I sincerely hope that is not the case. I am a huge fan of GH but if change is required then so be it. No individual is bigger than Altrincham FC.
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Maybe Graham just needs a bit of time out? I would not be so impudent as to suggest anything either way. If he did take some time off he might fall back in love with the challenge, that's for him to decide and nobody (other than his family) has the right to try to influence him either way.
Whatever happens managerially we are in something of a mess on the field and sadly singing louder and getting behind the team more (were that possible) wont score any goals or keep any clean sheets. Realism is I am afraid needed and it may be that substantial change is also required.
Our major enemy is complacency....There will come a point where things no longer 'work out alright' and we have to be prepared for that and accept it if and when it happens
I agree with that first point. He's been in this job a long time - longest serving manger out of the 25 (since Barrow are greedy and have two) in the division isn't he? It has to be draining, especially if unexpected departures and injuries leave you going backwards a little. Perhaps a fortnight, a month, or even a season out would give him time to relax, reassess, then go again. I don't know, but it seems plausible.
I can't stress enough how much better we'll feel after a win. Let's look at our squad objectively - players like James Smith, Chris Denham, Nicky Clee, Shaun Densmore - they're more than good enough for this league. We need to give the new guys a chance to prove themselves. Clee himself, as well as Rob Williams, started poorly but improved immensely with time. A real big effort to support the lads on Saturday, hopefully with a swelled "Non-league day" gate, could give each player that little bit more adrenaline needed for victory. We've then got some winnable games this month, Eastbourne, Gateshead, teams like that. Let's stay positive.
I still fully exoect us to stay up, but in relation to that final point, isn't it wonderful knowing we don't owe a penny and that if we go down, the club's future isn't in danger?
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I take it you mean sack GH??
I really couldn't think of anything worse at the moment.
Its so much deeper than just getting a first win though isn't it?
I don't want to see GH get sacked and I certainly don't want all the hard work he has done to end like this.
However the GH we saw last night was not the GH we had seen in previous meetings. There was no fight, there was just a lot of facts that we weren't good enough, we need more money, he wasnt enjoying, he wanted to win some football matches.
Graham certainly didnt see my point when I made it to him last night and maybe some people on here don't either. My point was that at times you can't always say what is in your head.
Last night there were some home truths about where we are at and honesty. We got that..no one in the room was shocked with what was said...most agreed.
However that meeting had to end with Graham saying "These are the players we have, its my job to get them up for it, we'll do our utmost to get three points..we need the fans behind us. Season starts Saturday". Even if he believes we will get battered tomorrow thats what he has to say.
That was my point last night and that remains my point this morning.
Can you imagine if a first time fan was at that meeting last night?
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I didn't say i wanted him sacked. I said the board need to make a big decision whether that be a temporary or permanent change is their call.
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I dont think GH needs to be sacked but joe is right, the board need to be strong and tell him to make a decision. If he has truly lost, for whatever reason, his passion for his job then he needs to go before we carry on losing games under his stewardship.
I think we have good enough players and I said this the other day, maybe we are losing games because our tactics arent up to scratch, as a pose to having inadequate playing staff. If the boss isnt up for it then it reflects on the players and their performences. I dont see why it would be a bad thing to change manager? Especially if the alternative is to keep one that isnt motivated.
Earlier in the thread I said that GH needs to be saluted, and I stand by it. If that means saluting his outstanding achievements on his way out of the club then so be it. Id like to think that GH will make the decision himself because he will do what is best for the club, hopefully im not dreaming there.
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I have to say that giving Graham a rest and putting ken in temporary charge at the moment would seem to be the thing to do.
You cannot under estimate the effects of a death on one's state of mind and outlook...the way the board needs to be toughand sensible in my opinion is to give the 'cote a break.....those who have been affected by such a life change seem to undertsand what jumps out at me.
Ecky is right in his interpretation but is that the real 'cote or the symptons of what has been described probably accuratly as a mid life crisis.
Be cruel to be kind I say.....otherwise we'll have more of the same leading to a very sad implosion.
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Can they afford to change the manager?
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Can they afford to change the manager?
It's a catch 22 situation: GH can't afford to resign and the club can't afford to sack him.
There is no easy solution.
FWIW I have nothing to say on the subject as I genuinely don't know what would be the best move for the club at this stage. However, the well-being of the club is, and always will be, the most important consideration.
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I am sure there are very few managers who know more about this league and club than GH.
There may well be the ideal manager for Alty waiting in the wings somewhere, but I would be surprised if we could afford him or if he could turn things round quickly enough.
If a change of manager is needed then so be it, I just don't think now is the time. It may sound naive, but Alty is not that sort of impersonal, big time club. Supporters love it for what it is, a small, well run almost family type club and I would hate us to turn into Cheshires' version of Crawley. We have got out of bad patches before with the resources we have available, and I remain hopeful we can do it again.
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Can they afford to change the manager?
It's a catch 22 situation: GH can't afford to resign and the club can't afford to sack him.
There is no easy solution.
FWIW I have nothing to say on the subject as I genuinely don't know what would be the best move for the club at this stage. However, the well-being of the club is, and always will be, the most important consideration.
Whilst agreeing in principle I'd say that the well being of the Manager, he being a living being with a family is the MOST important consideration
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Can they afford to change the manager?
It's a catch 22 situation: GH can't afford to resign and the club can't afford to sack him.
There is no easy solution.
FWIW I have nothing to say on the subject as I genuinely don't know what would be the best move for the club at this stage. However, the well-being of the club is, and always will be, the most important consideration.
Whilst agreeing in principle I'd say that the well being of the Manager, he being a living being with a family is the MOST important consideration
For christ's sake Phil, is there no end to your pedantry?
It goes without saying that his personal well being outweighs that of a football club, but I was talking from a football perspective.
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Can they afford to change the manager?
It's a catch 22 situation: GH can't afford to resign and the club can't afford to sack him.
There is no easy solution.
FWIW I have nothing to say on the subject as I genuinely don't know what would be the best move for the club at this stage. However, the well-being of the club is, and always will be, the most important consideration.
Whilst agreeing in principle I'd say that the well being of the Manager, he being a living being with a family is the MOST important consideration
Not really.
Imagine if Graham was sacked and this made him miserable i.e. suffered a loss of 'well-being', but at the same time a new manager came in and was extremely successful.
I think many people would accept this scenario, meaning that the well being of the manager is not the most important consideration for quite a few.
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I think someone needs to make the right decision for Graham first and foremost. Be it he who makes it or the board make it for him. The board also have a duty of care towards their employee, though their close friendship will already make them well ahead of that.
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Can they afford to change the manager?
It's a catch 22 situation: GH can't afford to resign and the club can't afford to sack him.
There is no easy solution.
FWIW I have nothing to say on the subject as I genuinely don't know what would be the best move for the club at this stage. However, the well-being of the club is, and always will be, the most important consideration.
Whilst agreeing in principle I'd say that the well being of the Manager, he being a living being with a family is the MOST important consideration
For christ's sake Phil, is there no end to your pedantry?
It goes without saying that his personal well being outweighs that of a football club, but I was talking from a football perspective.
Probably not Rosie And I was having such a good day too
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Whats to say that GH wont get another job with a different club where he may 'win a few games'.
He's been approached loads of times, maybe the fact he has reflected a lot recently led him to wonder where he could be had he taken one of those jobs. And now he is considering doing it.
I cant see GH leaving alty and then never having a chance in the game again. He's top quality at this level and would do a better job than Saunders at Wrexham for example. Where would that leave him?
Im guessing theres more to it, but i doubt he is holding the club to ransom. Let Ken take over, GH on gardening leave until he finds another post or decides to come back and give it his usual heart and soul, and see how we get on.
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Hate reading all this at a distance and not having the money or time from work to attend such meetings.
This seems like another meeting where GH says he has spoken to the board..... I am bored of reading \ hearing that he has offered resignations, thought about his position.. blah blah blah.
What GH has done in the past is amazing (Past does not equal the future though??) What I don't want is GH to continue and then end up being rememebered as someone that left it too long and then the good times get forgotten.
I DO NOT subscribe to the idea that 'no one else could cope with budget', 'no one else would want the job', etc. IF we were flying high then fair enough maybe roll with it but the start to the season has been terrible, esp after what we had last year to build on. YES he has prob undone himself by getting such good players that have moved on after finding their potential (Youngy to name one) but it seems we have not replaced them. After last season we should have been the most attractive Part Time 'stepping stone maybe' club to play for ? YES I know we do not have money but too be honest thats something we have coped with before and will need to again.
I am not saying whether GH should go or stay but would just wish the board would see it as a 'manager' and not 'Mr Altrincham', when making a decision. Ask would they be happy with the start if Gary Warrington was in charge, a man who loves the club, would manage the club and sell the club to any player he could get??
Tough decisions and times for Alty on and off the pitch but thankfully its not about 'money' and the board should be congratulated for that, and GH and the management forgiving a Blue Sq Prem team to sustain the money coming in. But I don't want all the hard work undone.
Everyone just do what it right for Altrincham FC. Thats all I can say. Go with heads and realism.
MY OPINION is what I have heard and seen this season its been awful and whether its GH geeing on the team or someone else, something has to be done and quickly before we slip too far behind.
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Firstly can I say that I wasn't there last night, so I might have missed something that somebody else knows. From the reading on the main site (although this may have been toned down to give a more positive outlook on things), it looks like GH just wants to win- some have interpreted it as he wants to leave for a winning team, but have you thought maybe he just wants to get the team back winning again? As I said, others will have heard more than me about this, so feel free to correct me. However, Graham Heathcote is Manager of Altrincham Football Club, and we as fans have to give our support, not only to the team, but to the manager as well
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I have to say that giving Graham a rest and putting ken in temporary charge at the moment would seem to be the thing to do.
You cannot under estimate the effects of a death on one's state of mind and outlook...the way the board needs to be toughand sensible in my opinion is to give the 'cote a break.....those who have been affected by such a life change seem to undertsand what jumps out at me.
Ecky is right in his interpretation but is that the real 'cote or the symptons of what has been described probably accuratly as a mid life crisis.
Be cruel to be kind I say.....otherwise we'll have more of the same leading to a very sad implosion.
I'm sorry but talk of GH having a temporary break is a total cop out in my view.
What happens if form improves, GH returns, and form drops off? Another holiday? GH is the manager and McKenna the assistant. Putting McKenna in temporary charge blurs the lines and causes problems ahead. It also underlines out the "unsackable" perception of GH that some fans hold.
As others have said there's needs to be a strong signal and clear intention from the manager about the direction we take. If GH genuinely believes he's losing his motivation and appetite then I think his position is increasingly untenable. If he wants to carry on then fine, but we need more drive, more spirit, more "we can do this!".
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If he wants to carry on then fine, but we need more drive, more spirit, more "we can do this!".
This.
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Graham's not leaving but Geoff Goodwin is.
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What makes you say that?
his son telling me
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I didnt attend the meeting last night because i have attended so many and they usually turn into the Graham Heathcote show. From what I have read last night was no different, howeverit sounds like an absolute car crash. In my opinion the manager's position is untenable, I fail to understand how a player is going to be motivated by a manager that publicly slags them off and is also looking for a way out. As Ecky says from a PR perspective as well it is an own goal - how are people going to flock to watch a team even the manager has given up on? I hope no directors were present last night because if they were it clearly highlights who is in charge of the Club. This problem was created 7 years ago and although GH has had great success in charge the escape plan for boths sides was always going to be a treacherous one. Graham Heathcote needs to change his attitude soon or walk out the door. Yours a baffled Season ticket holder, Shareholder and Supporter of almost 20 years.
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Looks like a good time to lump on Kidderminster at 6/4
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I? I hope no directors were present last night because if they were it clearly highlights who is in charge of the Club.
There was only one board member who wasn't in attendance but what i did find strange that they didn't sit with him at the table as they normally do.
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As an exile I don't normally see the home/northern aways but as it was Bank Holiday weekend I caught both York and Mansfield.
Mansfield was absolutely shocking. It was like watching us in 2005-06 when we regularly got a shoeing our first year back up, except without the team spirit. A common feature for both York and Mansfield was GH looked a beaten man, arms folded against the dugout and it Kenny Mc doing all the geeing up, instructions. If you were watching both games and hadn't seen us before you would have assumed Ken Mc and not GH was the manager.
There is a definite end of an era feel about the club at the moment, possibly on and off the pitch. We have swum against the tide in this leage for the last 5 years and if Graham has had enough I for one would not blame him. As others have said though the Board must put the club first and if that means a new manager then so be it. I do not want us to wave the white flag and drift back down to another 10 years of nothingness in the Conference North without putting up a fight.
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I think the main thing was when he said he wants to be given the chance to win a match! Basically that says to me the club hasn't got the pulling power to attract players that can compete in the bsp, we got lucky with youngy etc , so what happens now? Relegation followed by a change of manager then a few seasons in bsn is my bet
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I? I hope no directors were present last night because if they were it clearly highlights who is in charge of the Club.
There was only one board member who wasn't in attendance but what i did find strange that they didn't sit with him at the table as they normally do.
Darren,
I may be wrong but it was my understanding that GH had always intended to undertake this Fans' Forum alone, a decision made even before the Mansfield debacle on Bank Holiday Monday.
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I think the main thing was when he said he wants to be given the chance to win a match! Basically that says to me the club hasn't got the pulling power to attract players that can compete in the bsp, we got lucky with youngy etc , so what happens now? Relegation followed by a change of manager then a few seasons in bsn is my bet
I just cannot accept that. We're the top part-time football club in this country. There should be a good amount of talent out there. Prime example being someone like Chris Denham who has turned down full-time deals to be with us.
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As an exile I don't normally see the home/northern aways but as it was Bank Holiday weekend I caught both York and Mansfield.
Mansfield was absolutely shocking. It was like watching us in 2005-06 when we regularly got a shoeing our first year back up, except without the team spirit. A common feature for both York and Mansfield was GH looked a beaten man, arms folded against the dugout and it Kenny Mc doing all the geeing up, instructions. If you were watching both games and hadn't seen us before you would have assumed Ken Mc and not GH was the manager.
There is a definite end of an era feel about the club at the moment, possibly on and off the pitch. We have swum against the tide in this leage for the last 5 years and if Graham has had enough I for one would not blame him. As others have said though the Board must put the club first and if that means a new manager then so be it. I do not want us to wave the white flag and drift back down to another 10 years of nothingness in the Conference North without putting up a fight.
Spot on.
Do we really want to go to Redditch again?
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I think the main thing was when he said he wants to be given the chance to win a match! Basically that says to me the club hasn't got the pulling power to attract players that can compete in the bsp, we got lucky with youngy etc , so what happens now? Relegation followed by a change of manager then a few seasons in bsn is my bet
I just cannot accept that. We're the top part-time football club in this country. There should be a good amount of talent out there. Prime example being someone like Chris Denham who has turned down full-time deals to be with us.
yeah but that was for his tiling business
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I think it has to be accepted though fuertes, it has been well commented we have to wait till the later part of the transfer window to see what's left, it has to take its toll eventually, even with great lads like denham etc going part time, this league is basically an extension of the league 2 standard and crawleys spending is proving that
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I? I hope no directors were present last night because if they were it clearly highlights who is in charge of the Club.
There was only one board member who wasn't in attendance but what i did find strange that they didn't sit with him at the table as they normally do.
Darren,
I may be wrong but it was my understanding that GH had always intended to undertake this Fans' Forum alone, a decision made even before the Mansfield debacle on Bank Holiday Monday.
29th August www.altrincham fc .co.uk
Don't forget there is a Fans' Forum at 8pm on Thursday 2nd September in the Noel White Suite at Moss Lane. Everyone is welcome. The Club's management and board representatives will be on hand to answer your questions, so please come along and get the latest news.
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Are you being a little dim here about denham being part time with us cos of his tiling business? That's exactly the point! Also this season is the time to push the boat out rather than give up. There is a very realistic possibility of either Macc or Stockport or indeed both playing in the BSP next season (York and Wrexham aren't going up either). Those two home games would surely have a combined attendance of 6-7,000? That's extra income of £75k, do we really want to be playing Droylsden on Boxing Day in front of 760 but patting ourselves on the back for living within our means so much. I for one wouldn't be able to face being there.
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I think ballers is dead right. We shouldn't just look forward to life in BSN. We may look back on this season in 5 years time and kick ourselves for not at least having a go.
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Or think about the present and stop talking about relegation after six games.. ffs there is a LONG way to go yet.
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Or think about the present and stop talking about relegation after six games.. ffs there is a LONG way to go yet.
Exactly.........lets see how good the team is with new signings, no injuries, match fit players (Crowell / Twiss) against the 'bottom' eight clubs before (as supporters) WE throw the towel in
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I'm not throwing the towel in but surely no use starting playing well with 'fit players' when we are too far adrift.. I'm sure people are entitled to be worried, I am sure plenty of clubs would be looking for a new manager now so just shows how patient our club is ? ?
From what I listened to today though I think the players sounded up for it, although not sure how good Kidderminster are...
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Or think about the present and stop talking about relegation after six games.. ffs there is a LONG way to go yet.
To be fair, our manager started it....!
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Or think about the present and stop talking about relegation after six games.. ffs there is a LONG way to go yet.
To be fair, our manager started it....!
Very true
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A Couple of points to ponder over.
We have nothing to invest with - this is true but the window is shut anyhow so our recruitment options are limited. Not in any way critical, just asking - Why if we knew we were releasing Dale and possibly making others available too did we not do so before the window shut? We may not have got much if anything in but we could have raised a couple of grand perhaps?
The question was asked before the start of the season whether Matty Crowell was as good a player without Tom Kearney. Personally I didn't think so then and I'm even more convinced now.
We have lost the spine of last seasons team and anyone would struggle given that scenario. The question is do we have what it takes to recover? I don't mean the support of the fans which is virtually always excellent I mean do we have the invention, motivation, creativity, quality and desire to name but a few required traits.
These are genuine questions and I'm honestly interested in peoples views.
Thanks
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A Couple of points to ponder over.
We have nothing to invest with - this is true but the window is shut anyhow so our recruitment options are limited. Not in any way critical, just asking - Why if we knew we were releasing Dale and possibly making others available too did we not do so before the window shut? We may not have got much if anything in but we could have raised a couple of grand perhaps?
The question was asked before the start of the season whether Matty Crowell was as good a player without Tom Kearney. Personally I didn't think so then and I'm even more convinced now.
We have lost the spine of last seasons team and anyone would struggle given that scenario. The question is do we have what it takes to recover? I don't mean the support of the fans which is virtually always excellent I mean do we have the invention, motivation, creativity, quality and desire to name but a few required traits.
These are genuine questions and I'm honestly interested in peoples views.
Thanks
I'd suggest that GH looked at Dale's record of 7 goals in 70ish games, then decided he'd replace him with McCarthy in a quest to get more goals. That was a direct swap, and whilst I was surprised and not entirely in favour, I can understand why he did it.
As for Crowell, he's barely played and is clearly not up to speed. He won Northwich's Player of the Season in their relegation year. That tells us a couple of things. One, he doesn't need Tom Kearney to look good. Two, he keeps giving his all and putting in good performances when his team is struggling. Personally, that makes me very happy, given it's now clear we're in a relegation scrap.
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Today Crowell performed extremely poorly, too many stray balls, not keeping up with play and certainly not working hard to close down opponents. It's no surprise that when he was substituted the team gelled better and created a multitude of opportunities. Sadly we didn't capitalise but on another day McCarthy would have walked off with the match ball. The europhia about losing a star player after 5 games last season was overhyped and he is simply not the answer.
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should be a good festive season coming up if the weather holds :D
seriously, hope you get out the sh*t, when you look at histon/ hayes
youhave every right to demand better
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Tiocfaidh Įr Lį
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Tiocfaidh Įr Lį
I just KNOW I'm going to regret asking, but.......................?
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Think it is Gaelic for Our day will come
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Buzzphrase of the IRA. Never thought I'd hear it about Alty :D
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All this talk about us already being relegated really is starting to piss me off......... >:(
Ok you can post the league tables etc etc The best way to help is to come to the games bring a mate and that way more money is generated.... Coming on here moaning about big investments isnt going to help unless you actually want to invest in the club or know some bugger who is genuinely interested in investing in the club
Cmon Alty
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Is our present run entirely down to a lack of investment? Sure, we have limited funds and have suffered numerous injuries, but you've got to remember that poor decisions have been made involving player recruitment. Strange substitutions continue to be made at strange times in matches and there are still a couple of players at the club who seem to have 'disappeared'. Anyone who has seen our performances lately will inevitably scent relegation - we have been woeful. Fans have a right to voice their concerns, particularly if they pay £13 each week to watch the team play. We need to cling to the hope that the improvement we showed yesterday will continue into the next match.
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All this talk about us already being relegated really is starting to piss me off......... >:(
Ok you can post the league tables etc etc The best way to help is to come to the games bring a mate and that way more money is generated.... Coming on here moaning about big investments isnt going to help unless you actually want to invest in the club or know some bugger who is genuinely interested in investing in the club
Cmon Alty
I agree. Very premature. We were better than the opposition yesterday and were robbed. We've got more winnable fixtures coming up. Things can change very quickly in football.
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Is our present run entirely down to a lack of investment? Sure, we have limited funds and have suffered numerous injuries, but you've got to remember that poor decisions have been made involving player recruitment. Strange substitutions continue to be made at strange times in matches and there are still a couple of players at the club who seem to have 'disappeared'. Anyone who has seen our performances lately will inevitably scent relegation - we have been woeful. Fans have a right to voice their concerns, particularly if they pay £13 each week to watch the team play. We need to cling to the hope that the improvement we showed yesterday will continue into the next match.
When your bringing in players for free there is always the chance some of them may not cut the mustard....
one of the things that any manager has the right to expect is that they turn up to pre season in a reasonable state of fitness... That obviously wasnt the case with a majority of new players this time.
As I posted on another topic the reason behind two of the subs yesterday, namely Welch and Crowell was solely down to tiredness.. Injuries to our squad are magnified basically due to the small size of the squad.....
I totally agree that ALL fans have a right to voice there opinion especially if they are paying customers at the turnstiles.... As one of those said fans I have simply voiced my opinion and I stick by that..
I am still of the opinion that all is not doom and gloom after just 23 days of a new season.
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I am still of the opinion that all is not doom and gloom after just 23 days of a new season.
Exactly. Although I understand the reaction to the things GH said on Thursday, now is not the time to be pessimistic. Long way to go, and the next run of games are real six pointers.. Lets show some optimism and maybe the players will begin to mirror it on the pitch.
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I wasn't too disheartened with yesterday other than the fact we got no points off a God awful side.
They have just as much to worry about as us over the next few months I would say, and their forum reflects that.
I just want to know we are all in this together and the fight and ambition is there to stay up.
I'm trying to sort the money to get to Gateshead as we speak, there is no "we're relegated" talk from me.
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Would Michael Twiss have scored one or more of those chances that we missed in the second half?
If the answer is yes, then there is definitely still hope.
It's going to be a long 8 months if we give up now!!!
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Think it is Gaelic for Our day will come
i like garlic.
you watch we will be unbeaten between now and the end of the season and those shouting about religation will be saying told you we could do well :P
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Would Michael Twiss have scored one or more of those chances that we missed in the second half?If the answer is yes, then there is definitely still hope.
It's going to be a long 8 months if we give up now!!!
If he had turned up in a half decent state fitness wise when we played Woodley Sports / Nantwich etc then yes he probably would have scored yesterday...
As it stands he is still not fit (and yes I realise that he did get injured against Tranmere.
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As it stands he is still not fit (and yes I realise that he did get injured against Tranmere.
If he'd been fit in the first place, it wouldn't be taking so long for him to get over the bloody injury ! When we first signed him I posted the words "class is permanent". Unfortunately, fitness isn't.
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As things are going, GH may have to bite the bullet and give Twiss ssoem extended game time and a run of games so he can get fit. If he doesn't we have a liability on our books for 2 years. Short term pain for 5 games or so for long term gain. We know from his days with Morecambe in the BSP that he knows where goal is.
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if twiss is on a two year contract, why arnt some of our BETTER players , contracted, to stop any further poaching in january ?
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Any option of sending him on a month's loan to Ashton or Trafford?
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Any option of sending him on a month's loan to Ashton or Trafford?
He wouldn't get a gig at Ashton ahead of Lee Steele.
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So, it sounds like we were a little unfortunate to get nothing from the Kiddy game and points have been lost in other games due to late goals. My question would be to those who were there, did GH look any more interested on Saturday or did he still look dejected and without enthusiasm?
It saddens me to read of current goings on and I fail to see how a man who appears to have no belief in most of his squad and lack of enthusiasm for the task in hand can ever hope to motivate that same squad to go out and win matches. At the very least, to vocalise these internal thoughts in such a public way was a BIG PR mistake, at worst it threatens to de-motivate the whole club and lead is into freefall. Lets say your manager at work holds a meeting to inform you all that he no longer enjoys his job, that he thinks most of you are not up to the job and that anyway the company is at best heading down a cul-de-sac and the very best any of us can hope for is complete stagnation. Are you likely to leave the office in a positive frame of mind? Look forward to the next challenge? Give your very best for the 'company'?
Whatever GH's reasons for his current malaise, be they personal or otherwise, this can not possibly be allowed to continue. I will be the first to admit that he excelled in what he achieved for the club last season when I and others had previously thought that he was done. He helped us punch way above our weight. However, when there were calls for his head way back when, he came out fighting, determined and motivated.....this does not seem like the same man. Maybe he is re-assessing what he values in life and nobody could blame him for that. Maybe he has tired of aiming for survival, with little or no chance of setting his sights higher and thus thwarting any sense of ambition that he may have had...again no blame there.
An integral part of a successful setup in football is motivation and confidence and the man at the helm definitely needs to display both in abundance. It would be very sad for a man who has given so much to go out with a whimper after a season in freefall. Whatever the answer, gardening leave, permanent leave, whatever? We need a man in charge who is firmly committed and motivated.
Surely the outlook is not so bleak? It is very early and whilst we have lost some players, I find it hard to believe that so many of the current squad are not up to the task at hand. It is sad that the way things are we can not hope for anything much better than mid-table survival and maybe a good cup run, but such is the lot of many a club who cut their cloth in an affordable manner. I am sure that most of us on here would be more than happy with just that.
I haven't been on here for a while for a whole host of reasons and attempting to follow all things Alty from another country is somewhat less than satisfactory, but the heart is still firmly rooted in a Moss Lane field that will be forever Alty. Suffering severe withdrawal from lack of live match action, but hoping to get over for a few this season where I sincerely hope to see a club and team clearly motivated and battling for everything.
COME ON ALTY.
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Quality post Uncle G!
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Tbh, I'm stunned we haven't had any sort of comment from the club regarding GH's intentions. There wasn't even a Heathcote column in this week's programme, just a reprint of a report from the SAM. How can they club/GH expect the players and fans to be positive after we've been left hanging following last week's fan's forum.
It's not good enough.
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I suspect they are giving it a couple of weeks to settle down , to think about things carefully instead of being hasty and maybe to get a couple more points on the board.
GH often seems to speak in haste, the board, even if they have had the chance to all meet together, will be more thoughtful.
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According to GH his column this week simply read @We've got problems.@ I don't think they wanted to put it in.
According to GH?
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According to GH his column this week simply read "We've got problems".
I truly cannot believe this. If these were, indeed, the programme notes that were submitted it's an absolute disgrace and a piss-take.
However, and what infuriates me even more, to say this openly to a gathering of fans and in front of members of the playing squad like it's some sort of big joke??? What message is this sending out to people???
Moss Lane is clearly not the right place for GH to be at the moment and with every day that passes his situation seems to become more and more untenable. Put him on gardening leave, do whatever, but get him as far away from those players as possible and let someone breathe some life and enthusiasm back into our team before we fall further behind.
I'm not saying get rid of him, anybody can go through a crisis at any time in their life. People deserve time and space to take stock and come to terms with things. I just don't think the current situation is doing club or manager any good.
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Many things get said in jest or self depreciation at the new recruits evenings in fairness.
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and don't forget the personal loss he has recently gone through.
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Many things get said in jest or self depreciation at the new recruits evenings in fairness.
Ballers.....which accounting method are you using to calculate the level of 'self depreciation'? I'm a straight line man myself but recognise that both fixed percentage & declining balance have their merits ;D
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the speed i am falling apart at i think declining balance with with a heavy back loading