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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Red N White Dynamite on January 15, 2007, 12:01:10 PM
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It seems probable that both York and Oxford will bring away followings pushing towards the 1000 mark. We have a superb facility in the Noel White Suite but with the best will in the world it cannot cater for more than a couple of hundred people. This would result in a lot of income being lost to local pubs which would be much better in the Moss Lane coffers.
Is there any way a temporary bar could be set up to cope with the extra demand created by these big fixtures? There are obvious licensing issues but is there any way a marquee could be set up in the chequers end car park to provide refreshment to the travelling hoardes?
This idea might be a no-goer, but I think this is an important avenue to be explored to bring in some much needed cash to the club.
Please discuss.........
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offering my services to staff this bar if someone makes the headway into licensing it
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best bet would be a portacabin just inside the ground where the old male toilets used to be, just have it as a bottle and can bar, very cheap to make!
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That would be a great idea - if it got going, it would give away fans at any game the chance of a pint!
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Charge them £16 (£13 if prebooked) for entry to the bar.
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This would of course be hard to manage as we would not want cans or bottles in the away end.
The only way would be in the car park (although how feesible this is I do not know, and we obviously need the car parking space) as far as I'm concerned as you could not take the chance of people drinking so near to the pitch in a confined space.
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The problem of cans/bottles is easliy combatted because all you need to do is pour the drink out of the cans/bottles into a plastic pint pot. There is potential megabucks to be made here.
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You can not have people walking around the away end with plastic glasses. You can not drink and watch a football game or drink in the terracing area.
A portacabin would only hold about 10 people max after all the severs and cans were in and all I can see is a recipie for disaster, but I might be wrong..
Unless you brought in a portacabin like the size of Crawleys away bar but then that would probably cost more than what we would make for a one off hire charge.
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Ok sorry
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what you apologising for.
This is a great idea if we can find a cheap and satisfactory way of doing it. I just don't think a portacabin in the away end is a feesible solution. I'll say it again, I may be wrong though ...
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Marquee and we have a word with the people who own the rileys to use their car park, its always open, and bigg enough to use as an alternative parking venue,
the cans thing would work, someone should seriously make some calls this could be mega bucks
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It's just frustrating to see such potential for income and not be in a position to capitalise on it. That's what comes of rapid progress I suppose. Shows how far the club has come.
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This is where I trust no one and just imagine Rileys opening their doors to everyone for a drink from them before the match... Park your car here at Rileys and have a drink with us .... Sory I am just very cynical :(
Worth exploring though ..
Do we still use BTH as a car park ? or did that stop before it really started ?
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rileys don't own the building the company in the main part do i believe, i can always pop in and inquire if this is seen as a goer
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Think the BTH thing was a bit hit and miss. I understand there were some matches when the car park wasn't open but I have no idea if it's still used or not.
If I am wrong about the above I apologise.
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rileys gates were shut at the last home gate , first time ever and that car parks never full
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really i walked for the first time in forever last home game... its like i knew!!!
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Not untypical of me to be thinking of food but if this idea does come off there ought to be a wide selection of crisps and nuts available too. It might sound stupid but we haven't had home attendances like this on a regular basis for nearly 20 years and we need to maximise the income gained from it. We have the cheapest entrance prices in the league so away fans are going to have a few extra bob in their back pockets for their programmes and a beer.
It's also worth noting that City are playing away (Portsmouth & Middlesboro respectively) on these dates so perhaps it would be a good game to try a similar initiative to the one piloted against Weymouth. City season ticket holders would be able to come to the game at a slightly reduced rate if they contacted the club by email beforehand. These are massive games and a big cup game atmosphere is required to cheer the lads on.
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Why would anyone want to drink in a portakabin or a large tent when there is a perfectly good pub a couple of hundred yards down the road?
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The safety at sports grounds act forbids drinking alcohol in view of the pitch. Any temporary bar would therefore have to be outside.
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you would be suprised jimmy, if we can garantee a good supply of beer and some food like dynamite mentioned then we could be on to a real winner esp if for the oxford game the weather is good, sale have an outrageously priced 'champions village' which is full to bursting every week plus if we offer the chance for york/oxford fans to mingle with alty fans and to congregate together before the game.
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What if it had no windows?
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You'd be surprised how lazy some people are. If their coach parks up outside a place selling beer and match programmes why wouldn't they come in? The only thing missing would be a television but that is completely unfeasible. If it was done in the car park it is also possible that pass outs could be issued allowing people to drink at half time. This is where I feel we're missing out because away fans cannot have a pint at half time at Moss Lane. I'm sure there would be plenty of interest if it were an option.
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restrictions dictate that we cannot fit the fans in the away end for pre match drinks anyway
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Why would anyone want to drink in a portakabin or a large tent when there is a perfectly good pub a couple of hundred yards down the road?
You cant get to the pub at half time.
Best solution as I keep saying is getting a portacabin style affair just like canvey island in the away end, I dont mean a tiny one I mean a reasonable sized one.A can/bottle bar (with the use of plastic glassses) is something that would really make a difference to match day income, especially when those with sieable followings come to town.
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you would be suprised jimmy, if we can garantee a good supply of beer and some food like dynamite mentioned then we could be on to a real winner esp if for the oxford game the weather is good, sale have an outrageously priced 'champions village' which is full to bursting every week plus if we offer the chance for york/oxford fans to mingle with alty fans and to congregate together before the game.
Fair enough.
Although if I got to a ground and was told that I can either stand around in a car park drinking cans or go and sit in a nearby pub with Sky etc...
Well, it's a no brainer really.
EDIT: Obviously I'm talking about pre-match, half-time drinking is a different issue.
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Good idea,
The Canvey Island one was provided by the supporters club for away supporters use. It was tucked away behind another building and was brightly decorated with a telly.
Perhaps something to consider for next season?
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It could be accomdated in the moss lane corner of the away end, clear some of the sh*te cluttering the place up near the old toilets and crane it in over the wall, bobs your uncle.The costs might be expensive, but you would more than make your money back in under a season.
Visits of Aldershot,Burton,Exeter,Halifax,Morecambe,Northwich,Oxford,York, to mention just a few would see a a decent amount of money generated for the club especially at half time, where there is really scope for improvement.
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Not untypical of me to be thinking of food but if this idea does come off there ought to be a wide selection of crisps and nuts available too. It might sound stupid but we haven't had home attendances like this on a regular basis for nearly 20 years and we need to maximise the income gained from it. We have the cheapest entrance prices in the league so away fans are going to have a few extra bob in their back pockets for their programmes and a beer.
It's also worth noting that City are playing away (Portsmouth & Middlesboro respectively) on these dates so perhaps it would be a good game to try a similar initiative to the one piloted against Weymouth. City season ticket holders would be able to come to the game at a slightly reduced rate if they contacted the club by email beforehand. These are massive games and a big cup game atmosphere is required to cheer the lads on.
Thats a good idea about the City season ticket holders, there seems to be alot of City fans at Moss Lane and this could work well.
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Next season is fine but why wait that long? If a place could be found for a portakabin or other such temporary structure and it can be obtained at a reasonable price it needs doing asap. If the club likes the idea and knows a place where it could go all I need is a rough size and I will gladly ring around some companies myself. I just think this needs running by the club first because if the club cannot facilitate such an idea then it's pointless taking it any further. If it all comes to nothing at least we can say we all tried our best.
"He who dares Rodney!"
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hear hear
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It's been mentioned here that Canvey's supporters club arranged the one at their ground.
Is anyone from STAR able to suggest ways of making this idea work? This away bar idea has been spoken about many times but it needs doing as quickly as possible.
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You'd be surprised how lazy some people are. If their coach parks up outside a place selling beer and match programmes why wouldn't they come in? The only thing missing would be a television but that is completely unfeasible. If it was done in the car park it is also possible that pass outs could be issued allowing people to drink at half time. This is where I feel we're missing out because away fans cannot have a pint at half time at Moss Lane. I'm sure there would be plenty of interest if it were an option.
I think, apart from the laziness, York fans are the kind of bunch who would prefer to be spending money that they know is going to Altrincham FC for the simple reason that we are also the type of club these days who need every single penny over the bar. In the past few years we have all suddenly become very aware of spending matchday money in the right places. Not long ago I wouldn't have gone into our Social Club on a matchday and would have gone to a pub instead, but now I do because I know the club needs my beer money.
As far as half-time is concerned, we are no longer allowed a drink at half-time at KitKat Crescent (much to the annoyance of people like me who love a beer whilst laughing at the Leeds/Scarborough scores on Sky in the club) and most fans have pretty much got used to it. Of course it's money down the drain but, with the size of the following we should bring, it would be a ballache to get served in any case, so a lot wouldn't bother.
As long as we can squeeze in to the club before and after the game I don't think anyone will be that fussed. I would rather have a decent beer in a nice warm clubhouse with a few Alty than stand in a makeshift shed in the "away end" in a "new stadium" where the beer tastes of piss. You may have heard of such a club, they are just down the road from you!
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I thought draught beer tasting of piss was part of conference regulations that all sides social clubs had to stricly adhere to.
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Yeah but at the Victoria Sh*thole they serve it in a green and white pot.
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Is that so you can have a drink and then when finished can have a p*ss ?
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Abso-bloody-exactly!
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just a thought who would u get 2 steward this arrangement if it got the go ahead seeing that we only have 18 stewards on the books and dont forget the no drinks in the ground or in front of the pitch policy then u would have the problem of halve time.
though i am all for the club having the revenue god knows we need it though i now know how it could work but we would loss part of the car park and would need plastic glasses.
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plastic cups are pennies, rileys for parking as i said, stewarding just requires man on the gate letting out and handing bar passes and man on the turnstile accepting passes back. then two on the front of the marquee, for games of this magnitude do we not need a police presense anyway? i'm sure theres a willing group who would man the bar for the half time and the pre match drinks. instead of poo pooing this we should look into it, with the grace of the club obviously.
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LongsdenJr
I don't see anybody poo pooing this idea, in fact far from it.
What I do see is the Assistant Chief Steward asking what seems a very valid question so here are some more that I am asking myself before contacting the Club over this idea.
Does the current License allow the sale of Alcohol outside the Noel White Suite and more particularly outside the ground which would be the case if the marquee in the car park model was followed?
Would the licensees be happy with this proposal ?- I don't see anyone having taken their views into account
What would the views of the Local Authority, GMP and the local residents be to this proposal?
Would your 'volunteers' be the ones who had to try to control the away spectators who wanted to go walkabout with their drinks, take them into the gound etc. or would that task fall to the regular stewards (oops yes they're volunteers too!!)
Would your self same volunteers be prepared to miss what could be a substantial proportion of the match to undertake these duties.
I'm not poo pooing the idea as you so poetically phrase it but please try to remember that there is a hell of a lot or organisation required to deal with crowds such as those we anticipate from York and Oxford PLUS the additional complications caused by the potential reverberations from the Oxford away fixture.
We all want what's best for the Club but sometimes 'less is more' if you get my drift
Regards
Phil
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I think you're right, Phil. The idea is great but the logistics would be tricky and I do fear there would be an increased potential for trouble.
The best long term solution is for the current bar to be extended with a proper street entrance.
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It does require a lot of organisation that's for certain. However, even if it takes a lot of liaison between the football club and all volunteers associated with it this is a worthwhile venture and one that should really be taken seriously. If we can't have something in place in time for the York/Oxford games then so be it, but at least let's start the ball rolling and investigate every possibility. Phil has made some very pertinent comments and this is good because we now have agood idea of the things which must be considered. I think we need more information at this stage regarding the license currently held by the club and how easy it would be to obtain some form of extended license if required.
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This could sound silly but it could also do with someone approaching the club if you are serous ? You are assuming the club would welcome this idea ? maybe they have reasons to why they may not like the idea ?
Again I'm not poo pooing, just that I think it would be a nightmare to organise and from what limited things I know just not possible, but if people want to pursue it then so be and good luck to you.
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Phil,
perhaps poo pooing was the wrong way to put it, more pessimistic.
if we dismiss it before we look into it then it is us biting off our noses to spite our faces.
we would need to get the go ahead to look into it from the club before approaching the licensing authorities, councip, GMP, and locals.
i would personally be up for helping out on say oxford or york as a trial and i'm sure there are a few others who would, for the good of the club, give it a go.
i appreciate there are implications to be looked into and lots of questioned to be asked, but i feel they should be asked in a matter of course so we should be inquiring into things with the above authorities while looking into volunteers and who would be willing to help. then looking into getting beer and a marquee and the other things. if the club were willing i would be happy to make in roads into the subject but without a little vision we could pull this off
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This could sound silly but it could also do with someone approaching the club if you are serous ? You are assuming the club would welcome this idea ? maybe they have reasons to why they may not like the idea ?
Again I'm not poo pooing, just that I think it would be a nightmare to organise and from what limited things I know just not possible, but if people want to pursue it then so be and good luck to you.
agreed gaz, will be able to pop in on thurs and have a word with someone if the lub say flatly no then ok no worries but surely a few inquiries would not be un welcome
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Dont forget that a large proportion of away fans will be in there own transport so won't drink,
plus getting the messege through to these fan's to actually be aware beforehand that there would be an exclusive bar for them might be tricky? don't you think?
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Have already dropped an email to Grahame Rowley, but if you can also pop into the club that would be a good idea.
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As I said no harm in trying.
Costing is a big issue and the return we would get from it, as these are not altrincham fans but another clubs fans who may not care for the club (Sorry UK Phil but you know what I mean) so can't guarantee people will use the facilities. Having people milling around near the main road having beer may not exactly please the locals, lets be honest putting a sign up annoys them !
I am just not sure of a large amount of away fans drinking alcohol in such an open place. too be honest it scares me. These are not altrincham fc fans but they will be representing the club, if that make sense. Their actions will reflect on the club, our club.
Get your ideas down and approach the club, no harm in asking as you rightly say but I need some persuading ;)
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Dont forget that a large proportion of away fans will be in there own transport so won't drink,
plus getting the messege through to these fan's to actually be aware beforehand that there would be an exclusive bar for them might be tricky? don't you think?
There are ways and means of doing this.
Ideally, as previously stated, the long term aim would be to have a larger Noel White Suite which could accomodate home and away fans aplenty with direct access from the street. This is a long way off yet though.
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I think that an increase in our bar takings is imperative if we are to progress off the pitch, but I honestly don't think that marquees at the chequers end are a viable answer because of the logistics involved. What could go wrong outweighs what we'd gain.
Also what happens if we get this whole thing installed as a one off and there's a heavy frost or deluge of rain that morning?
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Does anyone know the history of the old Red Robin Club? Was it built by Messrs White and Swales? Was it opened as a revenue earner for the club or was it an entirely separate business?
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I worked in there from Xmas 1971 to September 1972, wating on and then behind the bar ( was saving up for a car). At that time the place was run by a guy with an Irish accent, who some other establishment in Stockport. It used to get quite busy, apart from the time on wrestling on mid week night....there were more participants than paying spectators
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I think the idea is a good one but trying to organise and man it is a different matter. We should wait till they start developing the carpark
and see what space is left when Chequers is knocked down then talk to the devolper about having a bar built in as part of a new perimter wall (where chequers) acts as part of the wall now behind Kieths snack van.
It won't be big but it would do the job
100th post
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congrats on the 100th post darren, i agree about the second bar area, but i think the reason R&W dynamite suggested this is because york and oxford are this season and real revenue could be missed out on R&WD any reply from graham rowley?
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Not heard anything yet but I'll keep you informed.
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Can I also say we need to think of ways of getting the Noel White Suite used by HOME FANS before and after the game.
This is our regular income and I think the bar is very poorly supported by home fans.
We need to think of ways of getting Altrincham fans into the bar .. thinking hat on ...
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Maybe another tv or two would help as there is always a crush to catch the scores at half time which might put people off at full time?
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Or maybe some sort of promotion (happy hour) at say 1-2pm match days and 5-6 after the game ???
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I think the position of the t.v is wrong as its right next to the door which makes a right pile up, maybe getting people to watch more towards the bar would be more appropriate and definately more accessible, I'm not saying we should do a big "changing rooms" just make more use of the limited space
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I know of quite a few people who won't go into the NWS beacuse of the smoke. Following 1st July, some people may give it a go but because it is such a low ceiling, it does get very smoky and the smell clings to your bobble hat :o(
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Fair point about smoke and yes that may help.
Incidentally does anyone else have to wash their clothes about 20 times after going to 'The Bridge' , now that is smokey.
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When I was a smoker I wondered what all the fuss was about but since giving up I cannot believe how much I notice the smell on my clothes when I've been to the pub.
I don't see a problem with making the bar no smoking as people can smoke in the ground anyway (except in the main stand of course!)
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Living up here in Scotland I can tell you the smoking ban is a Godsend - it makes a huge difference. If you still want tobacco, try snuff!
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Well smoking ban has been in place for nearly three years now here in Ireland and I for one am amazed at how well it has worked (the ashtrays still come out during lock-ins in selected pubs) given the high number of smokers in this country at the time. As an aside it has given rise to a whole new form of social interaction called 'smirting'. Smokers go outside the pub for a smoke and flirt at the same time (even non smokers have started coming out for the craic....no dirty pun intended).
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PLUS the additional complications caused by the potential reverberations from the Oxford away fixture.
Regards
Phil
Lets not have you hi viz wearing fiends booting off with any mob from oxford phil ;D
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I received the following email from Grahame Rowley yesterday:
"Sorry its taken me so long to reply but I have been doing a bit of investigating.
I also brought the subject up at the Board meeting last night
For licencing purposes, we need to apply 4 weeks in advance for a special licence (thus no good for the York game). We then also need to allocate a specified and enclosed area which may prove difficult.
We are going to contact other catering people to try and have more catering vans in situ on those two games - awaiting developments
many thanks for your ideas/thoughts - always delighted to hear from people as sometimes the obvious things get by-passed with so many other things to do
Thanks once again
Grahame"