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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on November 30, 2020, 07:36:52 PM
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At long last, we will be able to determine just who is the real 'special one'.
In all seriousness, what a cracking draw for a decent Non League club.
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I agree totally. But...I can't forget the nonsense Young brought to Alty.
Not yet.
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What a shame they won't be able to have a capacity crowd. When will they ever be able to see the likes again
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I agree totally. But...I can't forget the nonsense Young brought to Alty.
Not yet.
It's hard to imagine how anyone could have such a ruinous impact for us ever again.
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
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What a shame they won't be able to have a capacity crowd. When will they ever be able to see the likes again
Their capacity is 3185 apparently. If they're in tier 2 they can have half that. It'll be interesting who can get their hands on a ticket.
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
At that point, we were already goners.
The thing for me was getting our recruitment done early, going on rival forums and seeing people say 'crikey, Alty are going to be in a mess this season'.
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
Harvey was the fire to Young's frying pan certainly, but if he'd inherited a half decent squad to start with he might have done better. I don't think he realized just how poor we were until he'd got here, then I actually think he became depressed.
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
Harvey was the fire to Young's frying pan certainly, but if he'd inherited a half decent squad to start with he might have done better. I don't think he realized just how poor we were until he'd got here, then I actually think he became depressed.
Has Harvey worked in football since?
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
Harvey was the fire to Young's frying pan certainly, but if he'd inherited a half decent squad to start with he might have done better. I don't think he realized just how poor we were until he'd got here, then I actually think he became depressed.
Has Harvey worked in football since?
He's currently a vice president at morcambe, he's not managed since us
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
At that point, we were already goners.
The thing for me was getting our recruitment done early, going on rival forums and seeing people say 'crikey, Alty are going to be in a mess this season'.
We'd only played about 7 games, so about 6th of the season. Harvey managed to shift a lot and a lot in over his tenure.
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
100%.
We wouldn't have gone down if Neil Young was manager for the duration of the season.
We wouldn't have finished in the top half either, but he'd have eventually settled on a squad that did just about enough.
Jim Harvey's reign did the most damage, for me. Coming in he needed to settle on a squad and system that would start getting some results - but the door revolved at a faster pace than it was doing under Young.
One thing's for certain, Neil Young would not have played Danny Hattersley and Craig Hobson at centre half.
Anyway, massive congrats to Marine. Great club.
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Just to put the 2016/17 'season of shame' into perspective:
Neil Young:
League games: 6.
Points gained: 3.
Shaun Densmore, Alan Goodall & Jake Moult:
League games: 3.
Points gained: 1.
Jim Harvey:
League games: 10
Points gained: 3.
Matt Doughty & Robbie Lawton:
League games: 23.
Points gained: 14.
We were 12 points adrift of safety when Doughty & Lawton were appointed and, with over half of the season remaining, I would contend that the perilous position was still salvageable at that juncture.
We proceeded to finish at the bottom of the league, 14 points away from avoiding our second consecutive relegation.
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Just to put the 2016/17 'season of shame' into perspective:
Neil Young:
League games: 6.
Points gained: 3.
Shaun Densmore, Alan Goodall & Jake Moult:
League games: 3.
Points gained: 1.
Jim Harvey:
League games: 10
Points gained: 3.
Matt Doughty & Robbie Lawton:
League games: 23.
Points gained: 14.
We were 12 points adrift of safety when Doughty & Lawton were appointed and, with over half of the season remaining, I would contend that the perilous position was still salvageable at that juncture.
We proceeded to finish at the bottom of the league, 14 points away from avoiding our second consecutive relegation.
Holy cow batman. We were bobbins!
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Interesting that, of the above coaches, the only one to ever manage again was Young. Obviously Moult and Densmore are still playing, but I find it interesting that Doughty immediately jacked it in.
Harvey was terrible, no doubt. But Young had an entire pre season to get things sorted and it was disastrous. I don't know if he was having some kind of brain attack or what. We actually didn't win a single PSF, until a hastily arranged match against a Witton XI got us that elusive non-competitive victory. It was quite clear then that his squad management was appalling. He failed to recruit in key areas in a way I've never seen from another Alty manager. God, you think Adariboyo for Hulme is bad? I'll raise you Billy Hasler-Cregg for Josh Ginnelly.
That season was so bad it led to a collective delusion among the Alty faithful, leading to Lawrence Taylor becoming the most overrated footballer in history.
Incidentally, I did a "where are they now" a few years ago for the players on that season which shows how poor so many of our signings were (under all managers).
http://www.altyfans.co.uk/index.php?topic=23166.msg274400#msg274400
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Interesting that, of the above coaches, the only one to ever manage again was Young. Obviously Moult and Densmore are still playing, but I find it interesting that Doughty immediately jacked it in.
Harvey was terrible, no doubt. But Young had an entire pre season to get things sorted and it was disastrous. I don't know if he was having some kind of brain attack or what. We actually didn't win a single PSF, until a hastily arranged match against a Witton XI got us that elusive non-competitive victory. It was quite clear then that his squad management was appalling. He failed to recruit in key areas in a way I've never seen from another Alty manager. God, you think Adariboyo for Hulme is bad? I'll raise you Billy Hasler-Cregg for Josh Ginnelly.
That season was so bad it led to a collective delusion among the Alty faithful, leading to Lawrence Taylor becoming the most overrated footballer in history.
Incidentally, I did a "where are they now" a few years ago for the players on that season which shows how poor so many of our signings were (under all managers).
http://www.altyfans.co.uk/index.php?topic=23166.msg274400#msg274400
Ouch.
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We weren't in a relegation fight that relegation season from the conference north. We succumbed from first kick to last.
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
100%.
We wouldn't have gone down if Neil Young was manager for the duration of the season.
We wouldn't have finished in the top half either, but he'd have eventually settled on a squad that did just about enough.
Jim Harvey's reign did the most damage, for me. Coming in he needed to settle on a squad and system that would start getting some results - but the door revolved at a faster pace than it was doing under Young.
One thing's for certain, Neil Young would not have played Danny Hattersley and Craig Hobson at centre half.
Anyway, massive congrats to Marine. Great club.
I'm sorry but with respect, this is absolute rubbish. Neil Young had already destroyed us with the most bewildering recruitment policy I think I've ever witnessed. He also seemed to move heaven and earth to secure the services of the aforementioned Hobson and Hattersley that had rival clubs scratching their heads.
When he said in an interview that he'd basically keep on recruiting and shipping out until he got it right, that should have been alarm bells - he did the same thing at Stockport too, remember - they'd never seen such an extraordinary turnover of players in such a short period of time.
Jim Harvey had a reputation as a troubleshooter - a Sam Allardyce of this level, if you will - you could argue it was us that finished him off.
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
100%.
We wouldn't have gone down if Neil Young was manager for the duration of the season.
We wouldn't have finished in the top half either, but he'd have eventually settled on a squad that did just about enough.
Jim Harvey's reign did the most damage, for me. Coming in he needed to settle on a squad and system that would start getting some results - but the door revolved at a faster pace than it was doing under Young.
One thing's for certain, Neil Young would not have played Danny Hattersley and Craig Hobson at centre half.
Anyway, massive congrats to Marine. Great club.
I'm sorry but with respect, this is absolute rubbish. Neil Young had already destroyed us with the most bewildering recruitment policy I think I've ever witnessed. He also seemed to move heaven and earth to secure the services of the aforementioned Hobson and Hattersley that had rival clubs scratching their heads.
When he said in an interview that he'd basically keep on recruiting and shipping out until he got it right, that should have been alarm bells - he did the same thing at Stockport too, remember - they'd never seen such an extraordinary turnover of players in such a short period of time.
Jim Harvey had a reputation as a troubleshooter - a Sam Allardyce of this level, if you will - you could argue it was us that finished him off.
It's water under the bridge now but I've got to disagree with Andrew, although the biggest mistake was not appointing Bower and Boshell who had just been sacked by Guiseley. They went on to steer a then bottom of the league BPA clear of relegation, inc their first win at, yes guess who. What all three appointments had in common was the recruitment process - there wasn't one to speak of. The first time we did, post relegation, we got PP and NS. Lesson learned I think.
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
100%.
We wouldn't have gone down if Neil Young was manager for the duration of the season.
We wouldn't have finished in the top half either, but he'd have eventually settled on a squad that did just about enough.
Jim Harvey's reign did the most damage, for me. Coming in he needed to settle on a squad and system that would start getting some results - but the door revolved at a faster pace than it was doing under Young.
One thing's for certain, Neil Young would not have played Danny Hattersley and Craig Hobson at centre half.
Anyway, massive congrats to Marine. Great club.
I'm sorry but with respect, this is absolute rubbish. Neil Young had already destroyed us with the most bewildering recruitment policy I think I've ever witnessed. He also seemed to move heaven and earth to secure the services of the aforementioned Hobson and Hattersley that had rival clubs scratching their heads.
When he said in an interview that he'd basically keep on recruiting and shipping out until he got it right, that should have been alarm bells - he did the same thing at Stockport too, remember - they'd never seen such an extraordinary turnover of players in such a short period of time.
Jim Harvey had a reputation as a troubleshooter - a Sam Allardyce of this level, if you will - you could argue it was us that finished him off.
I'm not defending his recruitment, it was blatantly horrendous and we'd have done extremely well to finish above 17th, but I'm inclined to believe he would have brought enough ringers in to just about keep us up, in my opinion.
We quite rightly made a change and brought in Jim Harvey, who brought in equal dross and got worse results. When Jim arrived we had every chance of turning things around, it would hardly have been a miracle from that position at that stage. We were only 9 games into the season. Hence why BPA leapfrogged us and stayed up.
Three consecutive draws at the start of NY's tenure, including two against sides that finished firmly in the play-offs, would faintly suggest that squad he put together had enough to scrape staying up in the National League North that season. His side should have beaten Darlington on the opening day and we were unlucky to come away from Halifax with a point only. Arguably a completely different outlook and sense of confidence with two wins to open the season. Alas we didn't, and then the Fylde loss knocked us for a six that we never recovered from.
Not that it matters as we've ended up with a fantastic management duo and play some of the best stuff in non-league on our day. I'm just not having that Jim Harvey didn't play a huge part in our demise that season.
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Deffo should have gone for bower and boshell although we'd probably still be in conf North with Nicky Clee et al
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Maybe if we'd given Young more time....
I'll get my coat! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Maybe if we'd given Young more time....
I'll get my coat! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
he’s not on my christmas card list.
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
100%.
We wouldn't have gone down if Neil Young was manager for the duration of the season.
We wouldn't have finished in the top half either, but he'd have eventually settled on a squad that did just about enough.
Jim Harvey's reign did the most damage, for me. Coming in he needed to settle on a squad and system that would start getting some results - but the door revolved at a faster pace than it was doing under Young.
One thing's for certain, Neil Young would not have played Danny Hattersley and Craig Hobson at centre half.
Anyway, massive congrats to Marine. Great club.
I'm sorry but with respect, this is absolute rubbish. Neil Young had already destroyed us with the most bewildering recruitment policy I think I've ever witnessed. He also seemed to move heaven and earth to secure the services of the aforementioned Hobson and Hattersley that had rival clubs scratching their heads.
When he said in an interview that he'd basically keep on recruiting and shipping out until he got it right, that should have been alarm bells - he did the same thing at Stockport too, remember - they'd never seen such an extraordinary turnover of players in such a short period of time.
Jim Harvey had a reputation as a troubleshooter - a Sam Allardyce of this level, if you will - you could argue it was us that finished him off.
I'm not defending his recruitment, it was blatantly horrendous and we'd have done extremely well to finish above 17th, but I'm inclined to believe he would have brought enough ringers in to just about keep us up, in my opinion.
We quite rightly made a change and brought in Jim Harvey, who brought in equal dross and got worse results. When Jim arrived we had every chance of turning things around, it would hardly have been a miracle from that position at that stage. We were only 9 games into the season. Hence why BPA leapfrogged us and stayed up.
Three consecutive draws at the start of NY's tenure, including two against sides that finished firmly in the play-offs, would faintly suggest that squad he put together had enough to scrape staying up in the National League North that season. His side should have beaten Darlington on the opening day and we were unlucky to come away from Halifax with a point only. Arguably a completely different outlook and sense of confidence with two wins to open the season. Alas we didn't, and then the Fylde loss knocked us for a six that we never recovered from.
Not that it matters as we've ended up with a fantastic management duo and play some of the best stuff in non-league on our day. I'm just not having that Jim Harvey didn't play a huge part in our demise that season.
Perhaps it also stuck in my throat that he seemed to realise he'd absolutely screwed it and decided to do a runner.
Also, why do you feel confident Young would have brought in 'ringers' of a better quality than Harvey, when the season had already started and the best players were all signed up? He'd gone out of his way to sign many of the dross he did at the start of the season, what makes you think he'd have found good players when the season had already started?
You've also got to remember other teams were getting into their stride and the opening games are a bit of a leveller - once the dust had settled after 6 games, we knew we were done for, and I don't think Pep Guardiola would have saved us at that point. We literally needed to clear the decks and start again, but we couldn't.
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I'd argue that Tolson getting the caretakers job and the manner it was done was the big trigger for all of this in the long run.... Very easy to look at what ifs of course but our whole path as a club and the faith the fans had in those at the top took a very different direction off the back of all that.
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I'd argue that Tolson getting the caretakers job and the manner it was done was the big trigger for all of this in the long run.... Very easy to look at what ifs of course but our whole path as a club and the faith the fans had in those at the top took a very different direction off the back of all that.
Fault lies with the 2016 board for appointing Neil Tolson.
Neil Young (bar County) has a decent enough record for the decision, but was a very quick choice to hire and fire.
Harvey caused our 2nd relegation. We could have shipped out and re-built around.
Deasy, Densmore, Hannigan, Cyrus (Replacement), Moult, Richman, Miller, (Replacement), Wilkinson/Lawrie Reeves
That team (bold still with us) should have been enough to get more than 4 wins out of the remaining 36 games left.
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I'd argue that Tolson getting the caretakers job and the manner it was done was the big trigger for all of this in the long run.... Very easy to look at what ifs of course but our whole path as a club and the faith the fans had in those at the top took a very different direction off the back of all that.
Nail hit firmly on head.
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
100%.
We wouldn't have gone down if Neil Young was manager for the duration of the season.
We wouldn't have finished in the top half either, but he'd have eventually settled on a squad that did just about enough.
Jim Harvey's reign did the most damage, for me. Coming in he needed to settle on a squad and system that would start getting some results - but the door revolved at a faster pace than it was doing under Young.
One thing's for certain, Neil Young would not have played Danny Hattersley and Craig Hobson at centre half.
Anyway, massive congrats to Marine. Great club.
I'm sorry but with respect, this is absolute rubbish. Neil Young had already destroyed us with the most bewildering recruitment policy I think I've ever witnessed. He also seemed to move heaven and earth to secure the services of the aforementioned Hobson and Hattersley that had rival clubs scratching their heads.
When he said in an interview that he'd basically keep on recruiting and shipping out until he got it right, that should have been alarm bells - he did the same thing at Stockport too, remember - they'd never seen such an extraordinary turnover of players in such a short period of time.
Jim Harvey had a reputation as a troubleshooter - a Sam Allardyce of this level, if you will - you could argue it was us that finished him off.
I'm not defending his recruitment, it was blatantly horrendous and we'd have done extremely well to finish above 17th, but I'm inclined to believe he would have brought enough ringers in to just about keep us up, in my opinion.
We quite rightly made a change and brought in Jim Harvey, who brought in equal dross and got worse results. When Jim arrived we had every chance of turning things around, it would hardly have been a miracle from that position at that stage. We were only 9 games into the season. Hence why BPA leapfrogged us and stayed up.
Three consecutive draws at the start of NY's tenure, including two against sides that finished firmly in the play-offs, would faintly suggest that squad he put together had enough to scrape staying up in the National League North that season. His side should have beaten Darlington on the opening day and we were unlucky to come away from Halifax with a point only. Arguably a completely different outlook and sense of confidence with two wins to open the season. Alas we didn't, and then the Fylde loss knocked us for a six that we never recovered from.
Not that it matters as we've ended up with a fantastic management duo and play some of the best stuff in non-league on our day. I'm just not having that Jim Harvey didn't play a huge part in our demise that season.
Perhaps it also stuck in my throat that he seemed to realise he'd absolutely screwed it and decided to do a runner.
Also, why do you feel confident Young would have brought in 'ringers' of a better quality than Harvey, when the season had already started and the best players were all signed up? He'd gone out of his way to sign many of the dross he did at the start of the season, what makes you think he'd have found good players when the season had already started?
You've also got to remember other teams were getting into their stride and the opening games are a bit of a leveller - once the dust had settled after 6 games, we knew we were done for, and I don't think Pep Guardiola would have saved us at that point. We literally needed to clear the decks and start again, but we couldn't.
We weren't done for at all. As Hashtag points out, for all the sh*t that Young signed, there was enough quality there to pick ourselves up, remember we're Altrincham FC and give survival an actual go. The appointment of Harvey was a third successive disaster at a time when we needed someone to come in and instil some confidence back into a downbeat group. Instead we were provided with 3 points from 10 league games, and a bloke who wanted to play two strikers at centre half.
As he also says, Neil Young had a decent record at National League North level and his policy brought great success to Chester. Sure, we'd have been absolutely nowhere near the heights that he accomplished with them - but I do suspect he'd have plugged the gaps, and I think we'd have scraped survival. Which would have been more than enough to see him rightly sacked regardless.
Does Neil Young's recruitment have a role to play in what happened after he left? Of course. It left a lasting impact that successors had to deal with. But, to place the entirety of that season on the shoulders of him when those players were managed by another man during the crucial stage of the season seems a bit daft to me.
Would also agree that the problems started in 15/16 and the Tolson era.
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I am with Andrew on this...………..although it is all theoretical and opinion. I was one who was please to see NY leave and equally pleased to see JH arrive. With hindsight I do think that NY would have kept us up.
As others have said, the problem started when Lee Sinnott was not replaced by another experienced manager. I do appreciate that promoting 'assistants' to 'caretakers' or 'interim manager' can sometime work for some clubs though - just that many felt at the time it would not work for us. I will always remember the game away at Halifax where they went to ten men and we should have murdered them, only for them to waltz upfield and score. I think the right result would have kept us up. It is fine lines.
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
100%.
We wouldn't have gone down if Neil Young was manager for the duration of the season.
We wouldn't have finished in the top half either, but he'd have eventually settled on a squad that did just about enough.
Jim Harvey's reign did the most damage, for me. Coming in he needed to settle on a squad and system that would start getting some results - but the door revolved at a faster pace than it was doing under Young.
One thing's for certain, Neil Young would not have played Danny Hattersley and Craig Hobson at centre half.
Anyway, massive congrats to Marine. Great club.
I'm sorry but with respect, this is absolute rubbish. Neil Young had already destroyed us with the most bewildering recruitment policy I think I've ever witnessed. He also seemed to move heaven and earth to secure the services of the aforementioned Hobson and Hattersley that had rival clubs scratching their heads.
When he said in an interview that he'd basically keep on recruiting and shipping out until he got it right, that should have been alarm bells - he did the same thing at Stockport too, remember - they'd never seen such an extraordinary turnover of players in such a short period of time.
Jim Harvey had a reputation as a troubleshooter - a Sam Allardyce of this level, if you will - you could argue it was us that finished him off.
I'm not defending his recruitment, it was blatantly horrendous and we'd have done extremely well to finish above 17th, but I'm inclined to believe he would have brought enough ringers in to just about keep us up, in my opinion.
We quite rightly made a change and brought in Jim Harvey, who brought in equal dross and got worse results. When Jim arrived we had every chance of turning things around, it would hardly have been a miracle from that position at that stage. We were only 9 games into the season. Hence why BPA leapfrogged us and stayed up.
Three consecutive draws at the start of NY's tenure, including two against sides that finished firmly in the play-offs, would faintly suggest that squad he put together had enough to scrape staying up in the National League North that season. His side should have beaten Darlington on the opening day and we were unlucky to come away from Halifax with a point only. Arguably a completely different outlook and sense of confidence with two wins to open the season. Alas we didn't, and then the Fylde loss knocked us for a six that we never recovered from.
Not that it matters as we've ended up with a fantastic management duo and play some of the best stuff in non-league on our day. I'm just not having that Jim Harvey didn't play a huge part in our demise that season.
Perhaps it also stuck in my throat that he seemed to realise he'd absolutely screwed it and decided to do a runner.
Also, why do you feel confident Young would have brought in 'ringers' of a better quality than Harvey, when the season had already started and the best players were all signed up? He'd gone out of his way to sign many of the dross he did at the start of the season, what makes you think he'd have found good players when the season had already started?
You've also got to remember other teams were getting into their stride and the opening games are a bit of a leveller - once the dust had settled after 6 games, we knew we were done for, and I don't think Pep Guardiola would have saved us at that point. We literally needed to clear the decks and start again, but we couldn't.
We weren't done for at all. As Hashtag points out, for all the sh*t that Young signed, there was enough quality there to pick ourselves up, remember we're Altrincham FC and give survival an actual go. The appointment of Harvey was a third successive disaster at a time when we needed someone to come in and instil some confidence back into a downbeat group. Instead we were provided with 3 points from 10 league games, and a bloke who wanted to play two strikers at centre half.
As he also says, Neil Young had a decent record at National League North level and his policy brought great success to Chester. Sure, we'd have been absolutely nowhere near the heights that he accomplished with them - but I do suspect he'd have plugged the gaps, and I think we'd have scraped survival. Which would have been more than enough to see him rightly sacked regardless.
Does Neil Young's recruitment have a role to play in what happened after he left? Of course. It left a lasting impact that successors had to deal with. But, to place the entirety of that season on the shoulders of him when those players were managed by another man during the crucial stage of the season seems a bit daft to me.
Would also agree that the problems started in 15/16 and the Tolson era.
I'm no defender of Jim Harvey's spell as Alty manager but I think it's a bit odd to point to picking Hobson and Hattersley at centre half at Nuneaton as his biggest mistake - I don't think we had any fit centre halves available, so the team was always going to look a bit odd. Incidentally, Nuneaton's keeper that day was Christian Dibble.
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
100%.
We wouldn't have gone down if Neil Young was manager for the duration of the season.
We wouldn't have finished in the top half either, but he'd have eventually settled on a squad that did just about enough.
Jim Harvey's reign did the most damage, for me. Coming in he needed to settle on a squad and system that would start getting some results - but the door revolved at a faster pace than it was doing under Young.
One thing's for certain, Neil Young would not have played Danny Hattersley and Craig Hobson at centre half.
Anyway, massive congrats to Marine. Great club.
I'm sorry but with respect, this is absolute rubbish. Neil Young had already destroyed us with the most bewildering recruitment policy I think I've ever witnessed. He also seemed to move heaven and earth to secure the services of the aforementioned Hobson and Hattersley that had rival clubs scratching their heads.
When he said in an interview that he'd basically keep on recruiting and shipping out until he got it right, that should have been alarm bells - he did the same thing at Stockport too, remember - they'd never seen such an extraordinary turnover of players in such a short period of time.
Jim Harvey had a reputation as a troubleshooter - a Sam Allardyce of this level, if you will - you could argue it was us that finished him off.
I'm not defending his recruitment, it was blatantly horrendous and we'd have done extremely well to finish above 17th, but I'm inclined to believe he would have brought enough ringers in to just about keep us up, in my opinion.
We quite rightly made a change and brought in Jim Harvey, who brought in equal dross and got worse results. When Jim arrived we had every chance of turning things around, it would hardly have been a miracle from that position at that stage. We were only 9 games into the season. Hence why BPA leapfrogged us and stayed up.
Three consecutive draws at the start of NY's tenure, including two against sides that finished firmly in the play-offs, would faintly suggest that squad he put together had enough to scrape staying up in the National League North that season. His side should have beaten Darlington on the opening day and we were unlucky to come away from Halifax with a point only. Arguably a completely different outlook and sense of confidence with two wins to open the season. Alas we didn't, and then the Fylde loss knocked us for a six that we never recovered from.
Not that it matters as we've ended up with a fantastic management duo and play some of the best stuff in non-league on our day. I'm just not having that Jim Harvey didn't play a huge part in our demise that season.
Perhaps it also stuck in my throat that he seemed to realise he'd absolutely screwed it and decided to do a runner.
Also, why do you feel confident Young would have brought in 'ringers' of a better quality than Harvey, when the season had already started and the best players were all signed up? He'd gone out of his way to sign many of the dross he did at the start of the season, what makes you think he'd have found good players when the season had already started?
You've also got to remember other teams were getting into their stride and the opening games are a bit of a leveller - once the dust had settled after 6 games, we knew we were done for, and I don't think Pep Guardiola would have saved us at that point. We literally needed to clear the decks and start again, but we couldn't.
We weren't done for at all. As Hashtag points out, for all the sh*t that Young signed, there was enough quality there to pick ourselves up, remember we're Altrincham FC and give survival an actual go. The appointment of Harvey was a third successive disaster at a time when we needed someone to come in and instil some confidence back into a downbeat group. Instead we were provided with 3 points from 10 league games, and a bloke who wanted to play two strikers at centre half.
As he also says, Neil Young had a decent record at National League North level and his policy brought great success to Chester. Sure, we'd have been absolutely nowhere near the heights that he accomplished with them - but I do suspect he'd have plugged the gaps, and I think we'd have scraped survival. Which would have been more than enough to see him rightly sacked regardless.
Does Neil Young's recruitment have a role to play in what happened after he left? Of course. It left a lasting impact that successors had to deal with. But, to place the entirety of that season on the shoulders of him when those players were managed by another man during the crucial stage of the season seems a bit daft to me.
Would also agree that the problems started in 15/16 and the Tolson era.
I'm no defender of Jim Harvey's spell as Alty manager but I think it's a bit odd to point to picking Hobson and Hattersley at centre half at Nuneaton as his biggest mistake - I don't think we had any fit centre halves available, so the team was always going to look a bit odd. Incidentally, Nuneaton's keeper that day was Christian Dibble.
No, what made it so bizarre was that we had Jon Moran on the bench. By that season's standards he was pretty good.
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It could be argued that Harvey was worse
100%.
We wouldn't have gone down if Neil Young was manager for the duration of the season.
We wouldn't have finished in the top half either, but he'd have eventually settled on a squad that did just about enough.
Jim Harvey's reign did the most damage, for me. Coming in he needed to settle on a squad and system that would start getting some results - but the door revolved at a faster pace than it was doing under Young.
One thing's for certain, Neil Young would not have played Danny Hattersley and Craig Hobson at centre half.
Anyway, massive congrats to Marine. Great club.
I'm sorry but with respect, this is absolute rubbish. Neil Young had already destroyed us with the most bewildering recruitment policy I think I've ever witnessed. He also seemed to move heaven and earth to secure the services of the aforementioned Hobson and Hattersley that had rival clubs scratching their heads.
When he said in an interview that he'd basically keep on recruiting and shipping out until he got it right, that should have been alarm bells - he did the same thing at Stockport too, remember - they'd never seen such an extraordinary turnover of players in such a short period of time.
Jim Harvey had a reputation as a troubleshooter - a Sam Allardyce of this level, if you will - you could argue it was us that finished him off.
I'm not defending his recruitment, it was blatantly horrendous and we'd have done extremely well to finish above 17th, but I'm inclined to believe he would have brought enough ringers in to just about keep us up, in my opinion.
We quite rightly made a change and brought in Jim Harvey, who brought in equal dross and got worse results. When Jim arrived we had every chance of turning things around, it would hardly have been a miracle from that position at that stage. We were only 9 games into the season. Hence why BPA leapfrogged us and stayed up.
Three consecutive draws at the start of NY's tenure, including two against sides that finished firmly in the play-offs, would faintly suggest that squad he put together had enough to scrape staying up in the National League North that season. His side should have beaten Darlington on the opening day and we were unlucky to come away from Halifax with a point only. Arguably a completely different outlook and sense of confidence with two wins to open the season. Alas we didn't, and then the Fylde loss knocked us for a six that we never recovered from.
Not that it matters as we've ended up with a fantastic management duo and play some of the best stuff in non-league on our day. I'm just not having that Jim Harvey didn't play a huge part in our demise that season.
Perhaps it also stuck in my throat that he seemed to realise he'd absolutely screwed it and decided to do a runner.
Also, why do you feel confident Young would have brought in 'ringers' of a better quality than Harvey, when the season had already started and the best players were all signed up? He'd gone out of his way to sign many of the dross he did at the start of the season, what makes you think he'd have found good players when the season had already started?
You've also got to remember other teams were getting into their stride and the opening games are a bit of a leveller - once the dust had settled after 6 games, we knew we were done for, and I don't think Pep Guardiola would have saved us at that point. We literally needed to clear the decks and start again, but we couldn't.
We weren't done for at all. As Hashtag points out, for all the sh*t that Young signed, there was enough quality there to pick ourselves up, remember we're Altrincham FC and give survival an actual go. The appointment of Harvey was a third successive disaster at a time when we needed someone to come in and instil some confidence back into a downbeat group. Instead we were provided with 3 points from 10 league games, and a bloke who wanted to play two strikers at centre half.
As he also says, Neil Young had a decent record at National League North level and his policy brought great success to Chester. Sure, we'd have been absolutely nowhere near the heights that he accomplished with them - but I do suspect he'd have plugged the gaps, and I think we'd have scraped survival. Which would have been more than enough to see him rightly sacked regardless.
Does Neil Young's recruitment have a role to play in what happened after he left? Of course. It left a lasting impact that successors had to deal with. But, to place the entirety of that season on the shoulders of him when those players were managed by another man during the crucial stage of the season seems a bit daft to me.
Would also agree that the problems started in 15/16 and the Tolson era.
I'm no defender of Jim Harvey's spell as Alty manager but I think it's a bit odd to point to picking Hobson and Hattersley at centre half at Nuneaton as his biggest mistake - I don't think we had any fit centre halves available, so the team was always going to look a bit odd. Incidentally, Nuneaton's keeper that day was Christian Dibble.
No, what made it so bizarre was that we had Jon Moran on the bench. By that season's standards he was pretty good.
There was a defensive crisis for sure, but that's right, we had a fit centre half on the bench and Jake Moult had previously played there. He played two strikers.