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[DavidP]

Stuart atwell demoted to the football league. How unfair. If he's crap why oh why should lower league clubs have to deal with his incompetence. It's as if the fa are saying your a small club you don't need good refs

[AltyTunnelSteward]

I'm not Mr Atwell's biggest fan, in fact I have been very critical of him on Refereeing fora.

However he is not a crap Ref, he is a good enough official to handle games in the Championship and Football League but has found it difficult to make the step up to Select Group appointments. I am reliably informed that it is a hell of a jump from Championship to Premiership as a number of Teams who spend only one season in the Prem after promotion could doubtless testify

Also were he a crap Ref he would not have been appointed onto the FIFA List would he?

I am also interested in how fans of teams like Leeds, West Ham etc would respond to your description of them as "small"

[distancetraveller]

Ross Joyce is Crap - and a Nob 

[markecky]

Phil,

I know its not happened to you but whats the feeling of a ref when this happens?

It must be a real blow to their self confidence?

[bumble]

Phil,

I know its not happened to you but whats the feeling of a ref when this happens?

It must be a real blow to their self confidence?

It could also be a bit of relief? Or be a way of improving his confidence

He may have found it too much of a step up and found that he couldn't hack it at this stage, and that by going down to the championship/FL he could improve his confidence / decision making

[bumble]

Stuart atwell demoted to the football league. How unfair. If he's crap why oh why should lower league clubs have to deal with his incompetence. It's as if the fa are saying your a small club you don't need good refs

It's nothing like that

They want the best refs for the higher game... It's not to say you're rubbish here's a poor ref

[Butty]

People often forget that there are thousands of referees in the country and these people are the best 20-30 or so that we have. As I told a parent who was giving me some stick at the weekend, the whole ref bashing issue needs to calm down, as people need to realise we're only here to help the game run fairly, which many people tend to forget.

[Hamilton]

People often forget that there are thousands of referees in the country and these people are the best 20-30 or so that we have. As I told a parent who was giving me some stick at the weekend, the whole ref bashing issue needs to calm down, as people need to realise we're only here to help the game run fairly, which many people tend to forget.

The petulance and aggression of pro footballers against refs trickles down as far as kids and parents in youth and junior matches. The trouble is that we are all partially responsible for this when we abuse refs at ML, for instance.
Refs will make mistakes -  I think we all understand that, but its when they think they are more important than the game or inconsistent that rankles. I think some incompetence (by refs) is down to some of them being too arrogant and not listening to players or their linesmen and sometimes, such as a new ref in the Premier League, inexperience (Our own Anthony Taylor got quite a bit of grief in his first PL games) and I think these refs should be given every bit of support. Visiting clubs at their training grounds would be a good start.

[Ascot Alty]

I'm not Mr Atwell's biggest fan, in fact I have been very critical of him on Refereeing fora.

However he is not a crap Ref, he is a good enough official to handle games in the Championship and Football League but has found it difficult to make the step up to Select Group appointments. I am reliably informed that it is a hell of a jump from Championship to Premiership as a number of Teams who spend only one season in the Prem after promotion could doubtless testify

Also were he a crap Ref he would not have been appointed onto the FIFA List would he?

I am also interested in how fans of teams like Leeds, West Ham etc would respond to your description of them as "small"

Leeds are a small club. End of

Anyway, im interested to know this. Is it harder to ref a game in the premiership than the championship, or league 2 for example, and why?

I would have thought it might be easier in a technical sense, but more difficult in terms of pressure.

When a ref has a nightmare they arent too accountable, nobody gets to question them under the spotlight unlike managers and players, that should change a little. However I find the surrounding of ref's and the language used is ridiculous and I cant believe how little the FA does to support it being stamped out. The old 'you never see it in rugby' cliché is most definitely true.

[distancetraveller]

I think that with the technology available for TV companies to show instant replays of incidents just seconds after they happen puts a tremendous amount of pressure on top refs.

I think the main gripe  of referees by the fans is the inconsistancy of decision making One week we see players sent off for a tackle, the next the same tackle could go unpunished.

One of my pet hates (not the refs fault in this case) is when commentators say " If that was outside the box it would have been a free kick" 

I also think Linesmen/Lineswomen could help a lot more by being more pro-active in there decision making - I know people will say that they are instructed by the ref not to flag for certain things but at the end of the day if they see something that contravenes the laws of the game then surely they should bring it to the notice of the ref. 

Yes some refs like to be the centre of attention, Others are poor, and some are good (usually the ones that you dont really notice)

[Uncle Globnasty]

Leeds are a small club. End of

Que? What has that to do with this thread?

[Uncle Globnasty]

However he is not a crap Ref, he is a good enough official to handle games in the Championship and Football League but has found it difficult to make the step up to Select Group appointments. I am reliably informed that it is a hell of a jump from Championship to Premiership as a number of Teams who spend only one season in the Prem after promotion could doubtless testify

I genuinely do not see how you can equate a team being promoted into the premiership with a ref being promoted to officiate at that level. Maybe you could enlighten us? Apart from being exposed to the increased glare of the media spotlight, I fail to see the difference for a referee

[Butty]

However he is not a crap Ref, he is a good enough official to handle games in the Championship and Football League but has found it difficult to make the step up to Select Group appointments. I am reliably informed that it is a hell of a jump from Championship to Premiership as a number of Teams who spend only one season in the Prem after promotion could doubtless testify

I genuinely do not see how you can equate a team being promoted into the premiership with a ref being promoted to officiate at that level. Maybe you could enlighten us? Apart from being exposed to the increased glare of the media spotlight, I fail to see the difference for a referee

If a referee makes a mistake in a League 2 match, 10,000 people will notice it and the media probably wont bother about it, but make a mistake in front of 75,000 people at Old Trafford with countless others watching, within seconds the world will know your name for the wrong reasons, its the increased media coverage that makes the Premier League so difficult

[AltyTunnelSteward]

However he is not a crap Ref, he is a good enough official to handle games in the Championship and Football League but has found it difficult to make the step up to Select Group appointments. I am reliably informed that it is a hell of a jump from Championship to Premiership as a number of Teams who spend only one season in the Prem after promotion could doubtless testify

I genuinely do not see how you can equate a team being promoted into the premiership with a ref being promoted to officiate at that level. Maybe you could enlighten us? Apart from being exposed to the increased glare of the media spotlight, I fail to see the difference for a referee

If a referee makes a mistake in a League 2 match, 10,000 people will notice it and the media probably wont bother about it, but make a mistake in front of 75,000 people at Old Trafford with countless others watching, within seconds the world will know your name for the wrong reasons, its the increased media coverage that makes the Premier League so difficult

Precisely what Butty says plus the players in the top teams in this country are on the whole enormously superior to those at a lower level.

As an example (passed on to me by a Select Group Official)  In the Championship a defender will clear the ball away from his goal area so you move to anticipate that clearance. In the Premiership, the defender will play the ball out, okay maybe twenty or thirty yards, but to a teammate with accuracy. If you've anticipated the forty yard clearance or the clearance to touch then you are in entirely the wrong position.

Players of a team just promoted to the Premiership will experience similar things playing against the better players

[Ascot Alty]

However he is not a crap Ref, he is a good enough official to handle games in the Championship and Football League but has found it difficult to make the step up to Select Group appointments. I am reliably informed that it is a hell of a jump from Championship to Premiership as a number of Teams who spend only one season in the Prem after promotion could doubtless testify

I genuinely do not see how you can equate a team being promoted into the premiership with a ref being promoted to officiate at that level. Maybe you could enlighten us? Apart from being exposed to the increased glare of the media spotlight, I fail to see the difference for a referee

If a referee makes a mistake in a League 2 match, 10,000 people will notice it and the media probably wont bother about it, but make a mistake in front of 75,000 people at Old Trafford with countless others watching, within seconds the world will know your name for the wrong reasons, its the increased media coverage that makes the Premier League so difficult

Precisely what Butty says plus the players in the top teams in this country are on the whole enormously superior to those at a lower level.

As an example (passed on to me by a Select Group Official)  In the Championship a defender will clear the ball away from his goal area so you move to anticipate that clearance. In the Premiership, the defender will play the ball out, okay maybe twenty or thirty yards, but to a teammate with accuracy. If you've anticipated the forty yard clearance or the clearance to touch then you are in entirely the wrong position.

Players of a team just promoted to the Premiership will experience similar things playing against the better players

makes sense, cheers