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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: im not really here on September 19, 2007, 03:12:11 PM
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I dont think that GH is going anywhere, Im sure he would say that he has done enough for the club and that he has the right to leave when he is ready to go. The fact that he chose to parade around the bar saying he felt like a leper rather than in the changing rooms barracking his team shows that he has complete lack of respect for the fans. At the end of the day he runs the club and nobody will be prepared to say enough is enough. Personally I think he should go asap because a win against a poor Droylesden side will just merely paper over the cracks. He has been legend at this club and done a great job over the last 5 years but the events against Exeter, Woking and last night mean that the longer he stays the more likely he will be remembered by some fans for the wrong reasons like messers Taylor and King before him which would be a shame.
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I dont think that GH is going anywhere, Im sure he would say that he has done enough for the club and that he has the right to leave when he is ready to go. The fact that he chose to parade around the bar saying he felt like a leper rather than in the changing rooms barracking his team shows that he has complete lack of respect for the fans. At the end of the day he runs the club and nobody will be prepared to say enough is enough. Personally I think he should go asap because a win against a poor Droylesden side will just merely paper over the cracks. He has been legend at this club and done a great job over the last 5 years but the events against Exeter, Woking and last night mean that the longer he stays the more likely he will be remembered by some fans for the wrong reasons like messers Taylor and King before him which would be a shame.
Disagree with you on most of your reasons why he should leave the club. I agree that GH is jaded at the momentf rom the situation and he could quite well have lost temporary motivation. Like ateacher faced with a really tough class/situation.
I for one would be gutted if GH left. Results this season have been poor and many of the performances even worst. I'm not going to make a sentimental argument that "if it wasn't for GH we'd be in the lower reaches of the ......, tec, etc." What I would say though, is that without GH we'd be in the lower reaches of the.... blah blah blah.
To rate a manager against their own state of being at such a time is harsh. In all honesty we cannot expect to play competitively in this league year after year. We've made some decent signings, whilst some of the more respectable players of a few seasons ago seem to have become more overawed by the struggle we face.
GH has struggled to bring class into the side, as with the usual part-time vs full-time / sensibly run club situation, this will always be tough.
My worry about replacing GH is that the principles he, the board and Geoff Goodwin have set to run the club by could easily be upset by another manager.
In all seriousness who would want to take over GH's position. A manger is in a similar way to school pupil's progress through a school. (Sorry for another teaching metaphor!) What were the child's levels when they entered the class, what were they when they left? Same with a manager. Where was the club when the new manager starts, where will the club be when the new manager leaves way down the line? In both cases the expectation is that the child/club would be in a better position than when they started the new class/or with the new manager.
Whoever replaces GH would have the unenviable task of showing that a part-time club that's just recovered from historic debts and sits in the shadows of United is realistically able to compete at this level, with the current fan base year after year after year. A new manager would have to look to either increasing the playing budget, going full-time, or getting a nice big loan even just to to continue competing at this level. This would be devestating for the club. It would be unsustainable and damaging.
The only way for this club to improve is to organically build a strong fan base, and yes, losing again and again hinders that, but school initiatives and a higher profile helps in the long-term. GH has worked tirelessly to no public applause to make Moss Lane a place that school children want to come to on visits.
We are playing at a higher level than we should currently expect to be playing in. As a result we are facing financial struggles. As Burnley would on promotion to the premiership (if they didn't get increased TV money, or maybe even if they did.) I want the team to compete at this level, I do. But changing the manager is a bit too knee-jerk for my liking. 4 years ago if someone asked you if you'd take Alty struggling in the league below full-league status football would you have taken it? YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!
GH may need a break, maybe he needs some time to recuperate, maybe let Dalton handle first team affairs for a few weeks, that's a different story, but to suggest out of hand that it's time for GH to leave is to look at the very short-term future of this club, it's to replace GH with a manager who quite reasonably would look at budgetry measures to further strengthen the club, in hopes of proving themselves might sound groovy in the short-term but when were stuck with Leo Fortune West on a 4 year contract in 2011 playing in the Ryman's or whatever, then we'll be able to remember the days when we were part-time!
Bit of a long post, but I'm afraid to say, replacing the manager at this stage in our club's history could well be detrimental to the long-term future of the club. Nuff said.
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I dont understand where this idea that a new manager coming in would spend money that we havent got and plunge us back into debt has come from. Any new manager would be given a budget to stick to by the board and any increase of budget would need to be approved by the board. The manager cant spend money he isnt given and im sure all budgets would be discussed on a new appointment in any case. The argument GH staying because he doesnt ask the board for money is a very weak one.
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Bollocks
"In all honesty we cannot expect to play competitively in this league year after year"
Er yes we can play competitively in this league. Last season should have seen us stay up, we have signed players who are better than last year. We havent played well, against some of the better teams we have looked decent, but unable to produce the correct tatics to win (or draw).
I dont see why changing the manger would suddenly upset the way alty is run, surely a budget would be agreed with any prospective manger before their appointment? Geoff et al have done a wonderful job so far, and i belive will do for many years to come. We dont have the cash to splash around and have to bring in good and cheap signings. Obviously it depends on who could be attracted to manage a well run part-time footballing side. Remember we are one of only two manchester conference sides.
GH has been very poor so far this season. Both in match tatics and towards sections of the supporters.
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Apologies, i've already posted this on the forum today...but the main points i feel are very relevant to this thread:
The last two seasons we have been mathematically relegated from this level.
From the off, we knew that this year would be an out and out fight for survival...which is all we would of asked of GH...no doubt about it.
The team is undoubtedly better, Lane a superb signing amongst other promise (Whally, Logan)...yet our improvements seem to be behind that of the overall improvement in the league. Large financial investments (Setanta & Blue SQ) giving those with a "gung-ho" attitude to budgets further impetus to buy their way into the football league perhaps???
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As we all observe the league with interest...we note how Northwich have already binned Redfearn, and the Chairman appears to be pulling strings ahead of the interim management... Definitely not a way any of us would tolerate Altrincham to be run.
Granted fresh ideas will breath life into the team...and i personally believe GH is the man to do it. He's tried a few things against top clubs which haven't worked...yet with nearly a quarter of the season gone we find ourselves 1 place away from where 6 weeks ago, we prayed to be in May. The man know's the game inside out, knows his players, and knows the passion enveloped within Altrincham FC.
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Getting rid of GH wont solve any problems for Altrincham...if he stays and we go down then the worst case scenario is that we've had the revenue from an extra season in the top flight of english conference football...he was good enough to bring us up from the North...so surely that translates to bottom 8/10 of the conference?
I want to see Altrincham win games, and i desperately want to see them work to become a better conference side. However...and most importantly...i wouldnt be prepared to get rid of the person who knows the club/players/fans/town/shirt best...purely for a couple of quick wins under "new manager syndrome"!
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I don't think anyone disputes that we never expected to be here 4 years ago. However, we can't just lay down and effectively accept relegation in the middle of September. By persevering with a regime which appears fundamentally flawed what good will that do in the long term? People are getting royally pissed off with paying their hard earned money to come to games, only to hear the teams announced and stare at each other in utter disbelief.
I would by far prefer to move forward now and remember our manager as the man who brilliantly masterminded our return to the Conference on a budget of nothing than see this situation grow steadily worse and remember him as the person who bickered at will with all who dared to question him. I've said numerous times that I don't have a personal gripe with our manager, in fact I think he's done some brilliant things for Altrincham FC. However, you can't let the past cloud your judgement - it's what's happening here and now that matters and as far as I can see things look pretty desperate.
People aren't judging things purely on results - look how many times we've had bad results during the last two years and look at the way the majority fans have responded. In most cases people have given credit where it is due and adopted the philosophy that the team was playing to the best of their ability and our spirit carried us through many a tough game. I looked at the team on Saturday and the spirit seems to have deserted them completely. It's not a question of wishing any ill feeling towards the manager, but when you take a step back and look at the situation something has got to give.
How many pissed off fans do we have to alienate before something does get done? Our attendances look set to fall in the coming weeks and it's going to be a damn sight harder to win these fans back than it was to attract them in the first place. This is why I placed so much emphasis on putting sentiment to one side when I posted on here last night. I want to believe that things will turn round from Saturday onwards but I'm afraid that I just don't.
These are very sad times to be an Alty fan.
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Hey, I'm not for laying down and accepting our fate, but I'm not for all out changes either. It's obvious GH is struggling at the moment. I suggested he has a wee break from it and let Dalton take over first team responsibilities while he chills out. As for suggesting that Geoff Goodwin has done a good job for the club. That was my point, he has done an amazing job for the club so I would hate for the good work to come to nothing if someone irresponsible was to become manager.
As for using the word "bollocks" well done, inventive.
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The only way for this club to improve is to organically build a strong fan base, and yes, losing again and again hinders that, but school initiatives and a higher profile helps in the long-term. GH has worked tirelessly to no public applause to make Moss Lane a place that school children want to come to on visits.
/quote]
Unfortunately, the way we are playing at the moment, going to Moss Lane will soon replace detention at some schools.
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It might well do!
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Apologies, i've already posted this on the forum today...but the main points i feel are very relevant to this thread:
The last two seasons we have been mathematically relegated from this level.
From the off, we knew that this year would be an out and out fight for survival...which is all we would of asked of GH...no doubt about it.
The team is undoubtedly better, Lane a superb signing amongst other promise (Whally, Logan)...yet our improvements seem to be behind that of the overall improvement in the league. Large financial investments (Setanta & Blue SQ) giving those with a "gung-ho" attitude to budgets further impetus to buy their way into the football league perhaps???
...
As we all observe the league with interest...we note how Northwich have already binned Redfearn, and the Chairman appears to be pulling strings ahead of the interim management... Definitely not a way any of us would tolerate Altrincham to be run.
Granted fresh ideas will breath life into the team...and i personally believe GH is the man to do it. He's tried a few things against top clubs which haven't worked...yet with nearly a quarter of the season gone we find ourselves 1 place away from where 6 weeks ago, we prayed to be in May. The man know's the game inside out, knows his players, and knows the passion enveloped within Altrincham FC.
...
Getting rid of GH wont solve any problems for Altrincham...if he stays and we go down then the worst case scenario is that we've had the revenue from an extra season in the top flight of english conference football...he was good enough to bring us up from the North...so surely that translates to bottom 8/10 of the conference?
I want to see Altrincham win games, and i desperately want to see them work to become a better conference side. However...and most importantly...i wouldnt be prepared to get rid of the person who knows the club/players/fans/town/shirt best...purely for a couple of quick wins under "new manager syndrome"!
Actually no... we survived mathematically the first season and were only relegated due to the 18 point deduction.
I think that some poeple on here do need to be a bit more realistic in what they expect from the team.
Casper believes we should have stayed up last season, fact is we didnt and are lucky to be here. Yes we have striggled and played poorly against some of the bigger sides, but we did so last season and the season before. Too many people believed we would beat Cambridge purely as we dicked them 5-0 last year. It doesnt work like that.
It also annoys when people here moan about GH having a go back at them when they feel free to scream abuse at him. If your so precious about it dont shout the abuse. If someone was screaming abuse at you, would you just stand there and take it?
For those that want him to go as I posted last night, you have suggested no names to replace him who would work under the various restraints at the club
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Am I really reading some of these postings correctly? It has been suggested that no one would want to become manager of Altrincham FC if GH leaves. Does anybody really believe there would be no applications for the job? What utter twaddle!
Something I have been reluctant to mention on this forum so far was something my wife said to me whilst watching GH cup his ears to sections of the crowd on Tuesday. He doesn't actually look very well at the moment. Perhaps the preasure is getting to the man and for his own sake he needs some time off.
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Actually no... we survived mathematically the first season and were only relegated due to the 18 point deduction.
I think that some poeple on here do need to be a bit more realistic in what they expect from the team.
Casper believes we should have stayed up last season, fact is we didnt and are lucky to be here. Yes we have striggled and played poorly against some of the bigger sides, but we did so last season and the season before. Too many people believed we would beat Cambridge purely as we dicked them 5-0 last year. It doesnt work like that.
It also annoys when people here moan about GH having a go back at them when they feel free to scream abuse at him. If your so precious about it dont shout the abuse. If someone was screaming abuse at you, would you just stand there and take it?
For those that want him to go as I posted last night, you have suggested no names to replace him who would work under the various restraints at the club
It really annoys me when people come on here saying we should be a bit more realistic in what we expect from the team. Yes we are fortunate to still be in this league, we should have stayed up last season on merit alone, many supporters wonder how the hell we didnt score against aldershot. But I still expect the team to at least compete in matches, instead of trying to defend with players playing out of position or not at all. We have a stronger team than last year, so your reason for supporters being unrealistic is quite silly, most would accept finishing 5th bottom. We have shown we can play well, there have been glimmers of hope notably oxford and aldershot.
It is also out of order for a manager to use foul language at paying supporters, whom a vast majority have NOT screamed abuse at GH. Im saddened that the club have not taken a harder stance over the unprofessional actions GH has made, both during and after matches. Finally, as i have a job within customer services means i often get people screaming, yelling and using foul language at me. My professional approach means I CANNOT REACT, if i do, i get fired. So yes i just stand there and take it - reflect upon it and improve............ something GH needs to learn.
There is no point in talking about what manager we would like to come in, at the end of the day it is the board's ultimate choice. Im sure if GH leaves, this forum will be full of us supporters talking about who we would like to come in. Also with us being in a good financial position, and having a decent board will attract high calibre candidates.
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I agree Heathcote needs some time off....
Which brings me onto is it time for the change, DID Heathcote ever actually want us to be here???
I mean he plays us like a UNIBOND side..
Grim Times??
Also what's this about Mr Heathcotes incentive for children??>> So his swearing every game helps the children learn key skills such as!!!!!!!!
Swearing like a Foghorn.
Being Rude To The Referee/Authority
Challenging EVERYTHING thats even our way!!!!
Thats all I can and will say about this matter as i am not saying he should go or stay- As the Clash would say.;)
Look at seasons gone by and the incentive for school children were there before Mr Heathcote indeed sunshine.
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Since when has being rude to a ref been a crime,all fans and most managers have a go,its part of the fun.Now a manager does not suddenly become a bad manager over nightAt one stage last season we had a real great run and this could start again.We get these bad runs and will keep getting them,we have to pick up the points against the lower teams in this league and hope for something against the bigger clubs now and again.I just wish we would play 2 wingers and 2 front men at home,but Graham may do that against the smaller teams,he has his reasons to play the formations he does and we as fans may not know the real reasons,this is why i have said elsewhere the club should keep the fams better informed,it might help everyone.
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It really is time for a reality check. Who would come in and do a better job than GH with the lack of money available? We are a part time team in a full time league. Before the Cambridge game, we only have 1 less point from the 9 games than we had from the corresponding 9 games last season. We did not win any of those 9 corresponding fixtures last season. This just goes to show what a tough start to the season we have had. I still, strongly, believe that we will get our first win on Saturday, and things will start to roll from there.
Whatever happens, GH has earned the right, in my opinion, to see us through this tricky spell and he will do. Any change would be a backward step and would see the club much worse off. Why do we have such short memories at Alty? Look at where we were 5 years ago, and what we have been through, and it is a miracle that we are still here at all, let alone punching above our weight in the Conference National.
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punching above our weight in the Conference National
Will we be saying that in 10yrs time ? and how is "Look at where we were 5 years ago" anything to do with having short memories ?
Yes WELL DONE for everything that has been achieved no one is disputing that but thats in THE PAST and the clubs needs to go FORWARDS. I hope we can and why not with Graham but the fact is that if results \ tactics \ formations do not improve then there is only one person to blame.. I'm afraid thats football and 'm sure Graham knows that ?
If we are always looking at the 'past' then why did we sack Bernard Taylor ? He won loads of trophies for us but sadly he was eventually not good enough for the job as he ran out of ideas.
IF we got relegated to Conference North, then Unibond Prem, Then Unibond 1 could we then say "Well you have short memories cos look what happened 8yrs go" .. Don't be daft.
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If you're going to call for a reality check, then at least pay a little more attention to reality yourself. We got six points from the 9 corresponding games last season (we did win one game, beating Grays, and drew with Aldershot, Halifax, FGR), compared to three this season.
It really is time for a reality check. Who would come in and do a better job than GH with the lack of money available? We are a part time team in a full time league. Before the Cambridge game, we only have 1 less point from the 9 games than we had from the corresponding 9 games last season. We did not win any of those 9 corresponding fixtures last season. This just goes to show what a tough start to the season we have had. I still, strongly, believe that we will get our first win on Saturday, and things will start to roll from there.
Whatever happens, GH has earned the right, in my opinion, to see us through this tricky spell and he will do. Any change would be a backward step and would see the club much worse off. Why do we have such short memories at Alty? Look at where we were 5 years ago, and what we have been through, and it is a miracle that we are still here at all, let alone punching above our weight in the Conference National.
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I do not disagree that, ultimately, results/tactics/formations will result in GH having to go, but the time is far too early to be talking of such things. If we got relegated to Conference North, and a few months ago we all thought we had been, it would not be a complete disaster (in my eyes), and noone was calling for GH's head back then as far as I can remember. As far as, beyond that, being relegated furtheris concerned, I think GH would be gone long before that came about if we were in that position, but we are not. We are where we expected to be - in the relegation scrap. We have, at times (Oxford at home, Aldershot at home) shown enough to suggest that we can get out of it. At other times (Woking away especially)we have looked like we have no idea how to get out of it. But that is the way it has been supporting Alty for as long as I can remember.
Like it or not, we are punching above our weight in this league. It is no good calling me daft, or anything else, as this is just a fact.
I am ever so sorry to have miscalculated the points Leon, but the point I am trying to make remains the same.
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Here's my thoughts as a fan who has taken the boards advice and hasn't been yet this year so am not entitled to an intelligent balanced view from the outisde looking in;
It's been suggested that the 'cote takes a break and leaves things to Dalton.
Good idea....but I'm wondering if the 'cote is already doing that (half time at Woking???)
The 'cote has (as many said) made some great signings...he just needs to mould them into a team and let them gel...he'll have more options when Mr Berkley returns.
It's very odd that he doesn't use the new left back but is he not match fit?
When he came back and took over from bernard he instantly improved the balance of the side by signing Chris Adams and Sean Smith...sean was I think not up to that level but being left footed just tidied up the team.
He showed he understands balance with our play off winning side (although it took a few months to finally pair Marcus and Colin as his main pairing up front after initially thinking Colin was a left winger)
We've been robust and balanced for the first two conference seasons.
I think the frustration is we've now got better players but we are unbalanced...I think we'd have been better using Asa at right back and not signing Lane and using the money on the left side..but having signed Lane he then plays Asa at left back. As fans we would be more patient if we are told Clancy is not fit yet so Asa is our best option instead of scrathcin our heads and wondering what's going on...comes down to PR.
I think the'cote will find the balanced side that many have offered on this forum...come on 'cote don't be stiubborn....we're all realsitic and really just hoped for just above the relegation zone comfort this season.
A new manager may cock things right up...all those managers we've tried in the past for instant success?
Anyway saturday will be a big test as one up front (yes even Joe on his tod) is understandable against the big guns....but we are on a level playing field with Droylsden..I doubt they'll be that cautious with us!!
If it's a ridiculous formation and a poor one Vs Droylsden then i'd suggest to the board they give graham a 3 wk holiday in the bahamas, leave dalton to do what he can and then have the 'cote back for the xmas run in refreshed and with new ideas??
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Graham Heathcote is working his socks off for this club. With a part-time club and a very limited budget, he is doing all he can to get this team up the league. It's no coincidence that all the teams at the bottom are part-time as well. No other manager could do any better with what we've got at present ::). Once we start knocking the manager, negativity starts to find its way into the club and things get worse. Like wise the Chairman and board who have turned the club from a failing local club, into one that can rival any other off the pitch. We've had some bloody tough games so far and not always played badly. Stick with it guys; Things can only get better!
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Mourinho's currently looking for work. :-\
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And by all accounts has £25 million in the bank !!!!