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[RockyRobin]

True they were indeed.

However they should find an open space to perform in, not disrupt and intimidate.

Vandalism was rife not just the few.

Violence was the few.

[SW]

That sounds pretty fair.

[VofD]

HT  :  SCOTLAND 1-0 ICELAND and they (Iceland) knackered Christie's Hospital.

[Reading Robin]

This is a strange debate for a football forum, but just a thought to add to it. I was once told that there has only been one TRUE communist and that was Jesus Christ. Think about it, that could just be true.....................I wonder.

Strange it may be, but i used to get into long political debates on another football forum i posted on.

I've heard Jesus linked to communism, and there is some merit in it.  Although i believe there have been other true communists.  I'd consider Che Guevara to have been one, as he devoted his free time and life to the cause, when he could have easily taken an easy government job. 

Interesting SW, do you consider the Daily Express to be the most right-wing paper?  I'd always thought it was the Mail, although that may because of its history. 

[bighairedmike]

This is a strange debate for a football forum, but just a thought to add to it. I was once told that there has only been one TRUE communist and that was Jesus Christ. Think about it, that could just be true.....................I wonder.

Strange it may be, but i used to get into long political debates on another football forum i posted on.

I've heard Jesus linked to communism, and there is some merit in it.  Although i believe there have been other true communists.  I'd consider Che Guevara to have been one, as he devoted his free time and life to the cause, when he could have easily taken an easy government job. 

Interesting SW, do you consider the Daily Express to be the most right-wing paper?  I'd always thought it was the Mail, although that may because of its history. 

Historically the mouth piece of the conservatives. Especially in the post war period when Beaverbrook (sp?) owned/edited/had so much influence on it.

And i wasnt having a go at you about communism working earlier. Was more of a rhetorical question. 

[AltyTunnelSteward]

Both of them are a total waste of ink and paper.

If we didn't fell the trees pulped to produce the paper the Mail and Express are printed on we'd be doing the world two huge favours - one environmental and the other one of taste

[Reading Robin]

Thanks for that, I've just associated it with Princess Diana previously.  The Mail was supporting the Mosley and the fascists in the 1930s i remember.

I know, i found it interesting to talk about, goodwin for the debate and education

[SW]

No mate but as my parents used to read it I realised there couldn't be one worse. They "upgraded" to The Mail, which I consider slightly less offensive.

I struggle with all my heart to understand how a family who fought to get a decent life through the industrial revolution/ migration from Ireland and Lancashire into central Manchester slums only escaping via slum clearance to a "new" world in Wythenshawe then Sale Moor can consider themselves Tories. You really shouldn't forget where you come from.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the new chav "give it me" society, but the old days were where real people had real values. Recently, on the issue of the 1901 census you see how people with nothing at all tried, managed and looked out for one another, even if 10 lived in 3 rooms. My forebears.

I know my roots, accept them and understand how people feel who have not got life on a plate.

[jiminlondon]

in the second half of 2007 the Daily Express gave a large amount of coverage to the missing child Madeleine McCann. From August 3, 2007, the Express dedicated at least part of the next 100 front pages to Madeleine in a run that lasted until November 10, 2007.

blimey

[RockyRobin]

HT  :  SCOTLAND 1-0 ICELAND and they (Iceland) knackered Christie's Hospital.

GET IN, 2-1 SCOTLAND. Now "keep em out".

[baldrick]

I spend a lot of time in Bulgaria so i know about Communism.

The good points
There was almost no crime
Everyone was guaranteed a job
Every family owned a property
Nobody ever had money problems
Everyone got free healthcare
Prices were dirt cheap

The bad points
Shops were very poorly stocked
Anything from the west was banned
People were not allowed to leave the country, except to go to another communist country
They were not even allowed to visit another city without written permission
Anyone who disagreed with the government mysteriously disappeared
Punishment was very severe even for silly things

Summary
People were brainwashed into believing they were living in paradise. They believed the Communists were protecting them from the evil USA and Britain. Anyone who lived by the rules had an easy life but they were living in near poverty, although they didn't realise it because everyone else was in the same situation, except the chosen few who were party members and lived in luxury. Majority of old people say they preferred Communism because they always had enough to eat, they had a home and electric was supplied by Russia for almost nothing. Now they have to survive on a pension of about £70 a month.

My Opinion
Communism, Facism, Democracy or whatever you want to call the system it still comes down to people trying to control other people. As Billy Connelly once said, anyone who wants to be a politician should not be allowed to do so.

[bighairedmike]

I spend a lot of time in Bulgaria so i know about Communism.

The good points
There was almost no crime
Everyone was guaranteed a job
Every family owned a property
Nobody ever had money problems
Everyone got free healthcare
Prices were dirt cheap

The bad points
Shops were very poorly stocked
Anything from the west was banned
People were not allowed to leave the country, except to go to another communist country
They were not even allowed to visit another city without written permission
Anyone who disagreed with the government mysteriously disappeared
Punishment was very severe even for silly things

Summary
People were brainwashed into believing they were living in paradise. They believed the Communists were protecting them from the evil USA and Britain. Anyone who lived by the rules had an easy life but they were living in near poverty, although they didn't realise it because everyone else was in the same situation, except the chosen few who were party members and lived in luxury. Majority of old people say they preferred Communism because they always had enough to eat, they had a home and electric was supplied by Russia for almost nothing. Now they have to survive on a pension of about £70 a month.

My Opinion
Communism, Facism, Democracy or whatever you want to call the system it still comes down to people trying to control other people. As Billy Connelly once said, anyone who wants to be a politician should not be allowed to do so.

Not real communism that baldrick m'man. Communism = poverty for all.

[bighairedmike]

Thanks for that, I've just associated it with Princess Diana previously.  The Mail was supporting the Mosley and the fascists in the 1930s i remember.

I know, i found it interesting to talk about, goodwin for the debate and education

Returned. I love debating and the like. 

[AltyTunnelSteward]

So Mike

Is your observation that Communism is poverty for all based upon experience (gives it some credibility), academic study (room for debate) or Political Dogma (get a suscription to the Mail, The Express and the Spectator)?

[bighairedmike]

As i've said before, communism does not work as it can not be implemented properly due to exisiting political restraints, human nature and, especially in britain, a lack of extremist support. Dont know what you're getting at with the whole experience thing. I have never lived in an attempted communist country. I have studied communism at schoo in some depthl. History and Politics A levels make sure of that. And i dont get a subscription to any papers although i read a wide variety of papers every day. (Guardian, Telegraph, Times mainly although i read the metro on the bus and flick over the sports pages in the mirror, sun while i'm in the cafe in the morning.) Basically i read anything and everything so can't say my viewpoint is influenced by that really. It is mainly based on hard fact and analysis of history.