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[fuertes]

In fairness, not much in the way of stealing necessary. They come running. James McClean the latest, has been quoted as saying that no catholic can truly feel at home playing for NI seeing all the Union Jack flags and hearing the sectarian songs and chants. A point neatly underlined by the morons who sent him death threats after he declared for the Republic.

The IFA have done absolutely everything they possibly could to create the right atmosphere for Catholics to play for the national team. And there aren't sectarian songs sung at Windsor Park. Pro-British, perhaps. But nothing overtly anti-Catholic.

The Football For All programme is about eradicating sectarianism from the game at all levels. The current manager of the national team is a Catholic. I really don't see what else they're supposed to do...

The IFA invest huge amounts in training and nurturing these young players, only for the FAI to come in at the last minute ans say "Yeah, we'll have you. The North don't want you anyway. They're all sectarian bigots."

It's Northern Ireland who are trying to work towards a pluralist national team in which people from all traditions take pride. But it's f**king impossible when the FAI are acting so dishonourably, appealing to the inbred sectarian impulses of young lads from Catholic communities. Heaven forbid they should actually help us move on from the bad old days when there might be a couple of decent players to steal 

[Sarf London Alty]

One of the first tournaments ive seen us in where we are not getting carried away, would be great if it turns out we dont need rooney in the third game and our system is working as that would show we are not a one man team,

The spine still looks good but im afraid parker/peter reid is just an average dog, we say he has lots of passion but guess what at the top level you need a lot more than that

other than that..... come on england!!

It's all doom and gloom at the moment but I think in a few years time England could actually have a fairly decent team. Hart, Cahill, Jones, Wilshire, AOC, Cleverly, Welbeck, Sturridge will all be about for many years yet. I think this tournament should have really been used with Brazil 2014 in mind and to blood young players. As it is, we might bore our way through to the Quarters but we lack the creativity and attacking nous to do anything against the better outfits. The utterly baffling decision not to take Michael Carrick will rebound on us I fear.

[Uncle Globnasty]

]

The IFA have done absolutely everything they possibly could to create the right atmosphere for Catholics to play for the national team. And there aren't sectarian songs sung at Windsor Park. Pro-British, perhaps. But nothing overtly anti-Catholic.

The Football For All programme is about eradicating sectarianism from the game at all levels. The current manager of the national team is a Catholic. I really don't see what else they're supposed to do...

The IFA invest huge amounts in training and nurturing these young players, only for the FAI to come in at the last minute ans say "Yeah, we'll have you. The North don't want you anyway. They're all sectarian bigots."

It's Northern Ireland who are trying to work towards a pluralist national team in which people from all traditions take pride. But it's f**king impossible when the FAI are acting so dishonourably, appealing to the inbred sectarian impulses of young lads from Catholic communities. Heaven forbid they should actually help us move on from the bad old days when there might be a couple of decent players to steal 

All fine words Banbury, but not exactly true. Sectarian bigots exist on both sides of the divide and phrases like the FAI "appealing to the inbred sectarian impulses of young lads from Catholic communities" hardly does anything to forward the cause of integration. NI is still largely protestant and there still exists a large undercurent of anti-catholic sentiment from a large swathe of the protestant community, no matter how much you may wish to package it differently (and yes there are percentage head of population wise just as many morons from the catholic side).

Neil Lennon decided to quit playing international football for NI due to death threats received after he made the criminal decision to play for Celtic. Only last year Lennon along with NI players Niall McGinn and Paddy McCourt were sent death threats (again their crime being employed by Celtic). The authorities may be well intentioned and attempt an all inclusive approach, but the reality on the ground is not so politically correct. Sadly it will take a long time for inbuilt hatred and mistrust on both sides of the divide to fade away.

You can rant all you wish about the Republic stealing players, but certainly in the case of James McClean, he chose not to respresent NI at senior level and WAIT for a call up to the Republic squad (nothing was promised and in fact Trappatoni almost did everything he could to overlook him for some bizarre reason known only to himself).

[Jezza]

Despite the two 1-0 friendly wins I remain downbeat about our chances and think qualification from the group will be regarded as success.

Fortunatly Lampard's injury will prevent Hodgson from attempting to make a lampard/gerrard midfield combo work.

The wrong chelsea central defender is now injured and hodgson's decision to bring in someone who's name I can't even bring to mind now from liverpool is baffling.....it would make sense to have bought in micah richards who can play right back and central defence as that would make 3/5 of the defence from the english premiership winners rather than 5 strangers.....

I remain baffled by the inclusion of downing.

But apart from that i look forward to seeing the younger players gel and give hope for the future.....it is worth a note that the two strikers who scored the goals are not the old guard golden generation.

I just fear cahill's injury has ruined the chances of us winning our way to the final 1-0......but I don't care coz it looks like terry will be playing so i wont be watching with anything more than a casual glance at the younger prospects, his inclusion even makes me want us to get humiliated and hammered every game....just wondering what the FA and Hodgson will say afterwards when he is found guilty of making racist comments?....

[fuertes]

All fine words Banbury, but not exactly true. Sectarian bigots exist on both sides of the divide and phrases like the FAI "appealing to the inbred sectarian impulses of young lads from Catholic communities" hardly does anything to forward the cause of integration. NI is still largely protestant and there still exists a large undercurent of anti-catholic sentiment from a large swathe of the protestant community, no matter how much you may wish to package it differently (and yes there are percentage head of population wise just as many morons from the catholic side).

Neil Lennon decided to quit playing international football for NI due to death threats received after he made the criminal decision to play for Celtic. Only last year Lennon along with NI players Niall McGinn and Paddy McCourt were sent death threats (again their crime being employed by Celtic). The authorities may be well intentioned and attempt an all inclusive approach, but the reality on the ground is not so politically correct. Sadly it will take a long time for inbuilt hatred and mistrust on both sides of the divide to fade away.

You can rant all you wish about the Republic stealing players, but certainly in the case of James McClean, he chose not to respresent NI at senior level and WAIT for a call up to the Republic squad (nothing was promised and in fact Trappatoni almost did everything he could to overlook him for some bizarre reason known only to himself).

I won't go on and on for fear of ruining the thread, but just briefly...

Sectarianism remains a problem in Northern Ireland. Of course. But the IFA are striivng to tackle it and should expect a bit of support from the FAI, in my humble opinion. Some things are more important than getting a decent full-back into your squad.

When England had serious problems with racism they didn't have any rival associations exploiting the situation and hurting their fight to combat it. It just irks somewhat that a country as small as NI has been shat on here. Life's difficult enough for a country as small as us.

[fuertes]

May I also point out that Martin Kelly joining up with the squad is demonstrative of just how lacking the current crop of English players is.

[Uncle Globnasty]

Also not wishing to derail completely, but would just like to point out that when you use phrases like "Yeah, we'll have you. The North don't want you anyway. They're all sectarian bigots." in quotes as if that was actually said by somebody and then accuse the FAI of attempting to exploit sectarian divisions you are being more than a little disingenuous. There is absolutely no proof of any of your statements and the players that are commonly mentioned with respect to this all made their own decisions for various reasons (whether that be not feeling British and standing for God Save the Queen or simply playing for a team that had better chances of qualifying for major tournaments).

Being born on the island of Ireland entitles these players to Irish nationality. Unless FIFA introduce a rule whereby players who play schoolboy football for one nation can never play for another I do not see anything that you can do about it. The FAI NEVER appointed anybody to specifically target players who could possibly declare for the Republic. NI did however do this and in fact appointed an ambassador (in the shape of Gerry Armstrong) to target players who were thought to be potential 'defectors'.

Ultimately, whilst the rules allow it's a players choice. Like it or not.

[RedhillAlty]

Oh great, now Cahill is out while Terry looks to be fit enough!

WE'RE DOOOMED! DOOMED, I TELL YOU, DOOMED!

He could have and should have declared for Ireland

The FAI are too busy stealing from the North to bother with English cast-offs  

Firstly on your accusation of stealing, most Irish people view the annexation of the six counties as nothing but that. However, in the Good Friday agreement, in exchange for the Republic removing claim to the six counties from its constitution, Paisley made one of his very few ‘concessions’ and agreed that ANYONE born in the six counties has the right to claim Irish or British citizenship. Not all Catholics claim Irish Passports and I know of non-Catholics from the North that claim Irish passports as when it suits their purpose they are Irish, when it don’t they are British. Example, those ‘Loyalists’ that attend Scottish Universities and produce an Irish Passport in order to avoid paying tuition fees.

It’s the same with the IFA who sit on the fence. Unless it has recently changed, to play for Northern Ireland you had to have a British Passport – which excludes players who claim Irish Nationality and also contravenes the Good Friday agreement. Unlike Wales and Scotland the IFA insist on playing the official British Anthem, yet even some England players have not/wont sing it, yet you expect Irish people to. However, the IFA were not so quick to be British when they opposed Team GB.

The FAI have not stolen players. They are entitled to play their own Citizens. Maik Taylor played 88 times in goal for Northern Ireland having had no connection with Ireland whatsoever (north or south) either by heritage or residence. He was born in Germany to a German mother and claimed a British Passport through his English Father. I suggest that you get your own house in order before pointing the accusing finger.
And if you dont like the current rules, I suggest you should be having a go at Rev Ian Paisley not the FAI.

[Paul Cain's Chip Pan]

Can anyone point me in the direction of the England Euro 2012 thread please?

 

[Uncle Globnasty]

Can anyone point me in the direction of the England Euro 2012 thread please?

 

PMSL. It's been annexed. COME ON IRELAND. 15000 poles turned up to watch an open training session last night in the host town of Gdynia.

[fuertes]

Firstly on your accusation of stealing, most Irish people view the annexation of the six counties as nothing but that. However, in the Good Friday agreement, in exchange for the Republic removing claim to the six counties from its constitution, Paisley made one of his very few ‘concessions’ and agreed that ANYONE born in the six counties has the right to claim Irish or British citizenship. Not all Catholics claim Irish Passports and I know of non-Catholics from the North that claim Irish passports as when it suits their purpose they are Irish, when it don’t they are British. Example, those ‘Loyalists’ that attend Scottish Universities and produce an Irish Passport in order to avoid paying tuition fees.

It’s the same with the IFA who sit on the fence. Unless it has recently changed, to play for Northern Ireland you had to have a British Passport – which excludes players who claim Irish Nationality and also contravenes the Good Friday agreement. Unlike Wales and Scotland the IFA insist on playing the official British Anthem, yet even some England players have not/wont sing it, yet you expect Irish people to. However, the IFA were not so quick to be British when they opposed Team GB.

The FAI have not stolen players. They are entitled to play their own Citizens. Maik Taylor played 88 times in goal for Northern Ireland having had no connection with Ireland whatsoever (north or south) either by heritage or residence. He was born in Germany to a German mother and claimed a British Passport through his English Father. I suggest that you get your own house in order before pointing the accusing finger.
And if you dont like the current rules, I suggest you should be having a go at Rev Ian Paisley not the FAI.

I could take issue with a huge amount of that. But it's probably fair to everyone else if I don't, it'll massively clog up a thread that supposed to be about England

Suffice to say, bringing evangelical fundamentalist nutter Ian Paisley into things doesn't improve the chances of rational discussion taking place. And the Maik Taylor example is certainly a strange one, but is completely different. He wasn't someone a rival association wanted to pick. What's happening in the Irish case is young Northern Irish lads, trained by the IFA, picked for Northern Ireland youth squads, are then poached.

[RedhillAlty]

Can anyone point me in the direction of the England Euro 2012 thread please?

 

PMSL. It's been annexed. COME ON IRELAND. 15000 poles turned up to watch an open training session last night in the host town of Gdynia.

Chris, are you going to Euro 2012?  I am going to the match on Sunday.

[Nasha]

Back to the Euros, I find it annoying the press continuing to claim that Ferdinand has been snubbed 'again' following Cahills injury. No he hasn't, Hodgson can't bring him up even if he wanted to I'm led to believe. Once the final 23 has been named, if a player gets an injury before the tournament you can only call up from the back up list, hence why Kelly has been brought in.

To be fair, I only knew about this rule when I heard Graham Taylor talk about it. Back in Euro 92, he had to go to the tournament with 19 players instead of 20 as Mark Wright picked up an injury just before the tournament, and UEFA wouldn't allow him to call up someone else.

[bumble]

I don't get why Kelly's inclusion is that bad


 he may make the bench at best!

It's not like he goes to the starting line up straight away...

[Uncle Globnasty]

Chris, are you going to Euro 2012?  I am going to the match on Sunday.

Lucky you. Unfortunately no, I had been advised of my financial priorities by my good lady wife and that if I was telling her we couldn't afford to do other things, then I certainly couldn't justify Poland ;-(

Should be a fantastic atmosphere, they estimate about 25000 Irish making their way out there by a whole host of methods.

I have created a new thread for the nationality issue so as not to clog this further:

http://www.altyfans.co.uk/index.php?topic=15048.0