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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Timperley The Best on September 01, 2023, 06:41:03 PM
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Option 1 for me
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Option 1
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Absolute no brainer! 'soulless' new and well appointed ground at Moss Lane! 😉
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i only started watching alty cos its walking distance from my house. otherwise i might have to watch the bowls on hale road.
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Option 1.
I would only be agreeable to a different location if it was within a one mile radius of the Town Centre and was easy to get to on foot.
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100% Moss Lane.
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I can't believe people like stadiums like Fylde's if I'm honest but each to their own. For me, Moss Lane is full of character and is synonymous with the club. There's potential to redevelop some of the ground whilst retaining its character and identity and that's the balance we would need to strike in my opinion. Moss Lane is unique and it's in a great location for the town and for locals who live nearby, and on top of that it is the lower league type ground that people want to visit and want to watch football in.
Having said that, there are a lot of things we could improve. There's scope, I'm sure, to redevelop the popular side entirely. The car park behind it is just spare land and if we had the funds (and the desire) could be used to to build a brand new stand much bigger than what's there now and probably with facilities within it given the space around it.
The main stand could be modernised, whilst retaining its character, and if needed the family stand next to it could be completely rebuilt or even incorporated into the main stand to form one new stand. Then the Golf Road End is another that could be largely left as it is for atmosphere but some tweaks like giving it steeper steps or a new roof etc could be implemented. i'd want to keep the curve personally as I think that's unique and all part of the character of the ground but there's no reason why modernisation and upgrades can't be made whilst retaining that.
I'm not saying that this is what we should do word for word but I think there are ideas there where the ground could be updated to a satisfactory standard without bulldozing the entire thing or moving to a new stadium somewhere else.
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I'd love to be wrong, but I think we might get away with redoing the pop side but the rest will just create havock with the neighbours.
I'd love to have the council on our side and know if we go in to a planning meeting we'd have the larger sway of the vote... I just don't see that ever being the case.
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100% Moss Lane. The place is heaven and sometimes hell.
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So the question is, what can we realistically do; what would we want to do (and I think there would be strong support for retaining the character of the ground); and what would we definitely not want?
It was stated elsewhere, for example, that a seated area near the Chequers End turnstiles would not be workable for whatever reason - so what could actually be done at that end or in other parts of the ground? Can anyone provide lists for any category? For me, the main thing is that supporters are consulted so far as is reasonably possible, which I think will happen, but it is a pressing matter as ground development was always going to happen when funds become available, and now they have. The only real development since the family stand affecting the terraces is the small terrace replacing the Mausoleum as attention has been given to facilities such as the fan zone and redeveloping the sponsors' lounge, but attention will need to turn to the terraces at some point.
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I've yet to visit a new ground that I've thought was better than ML and therefore presented itself as a model to work towards. Without exception they seem to me to be soulless.
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I think the issue really is that house and land prices are so ludicrously high within a mile / few miles of the ground that any new ground would cost more than the club could raise by offering the existing land. (plus the covenant for recreation). In most cases that is how the new grounds have been paid for. York seemed to have done well, and location with other things such as the shops and cinema help, their attendances are strong. Northwich got it horribly wrong
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I'm sure the club will look at all options, whilst I love the history and nostalgia created at ML, I think we should consider a move if it means we have better facilities and capacity for the future. I would want it not to be too far from its current location as I can walk there at present.
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got to be Moss lane for me, having been coming to the ground since 1963
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After 55 years of coming to Moss Lane i still feel a growing sense of excitement and anticipation the closer i get to the ground on matchday , in many ways it's just like my first match as a kid all that time ago . We all know it needs a ton of stuff to bring it up to scratch but personally it won't quite be the same if we were to leave our sacred home .
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After 55 years of coming to Moss Lane i still feel a growing sense of excitement and anticipation the closer i get to the ground on matchday , in many ways it's just like my first match as a kid all that time ago . We all know it needs a ton of stuff to bring it up to scratch but personally it won't quite be the same if we were to leave our sacred home .
67 years for me, and I echo your sentiments 100%
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Buying the land, cost of building a stadium, financially it’s never going to happen, with a good design Moss lane could become a more than adequate location for us to comfortably accommodate larger crowds even if we do manage to get into Lge 2 in the future.
Some folks will disagree but in the cold light of day, we are better off staying put IMO.
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After 55 years of coming to Moss Lane i still feel a growing sense of excitement and anticipation the closer i get to the ground on matchday , in many ways it's just like my first match as a kid all that time ago . We all know it needs a ton of stuff to bring it up to scratch but personally it won't quite be the same if we were to leave our sacred home .
67 years for me, and I echo your sentiments 100%
Only coming up 58 years, but it's a ditto from me too.
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Buying the land, cost of building a stadium, financially it’s never going to happen, with a good design Moss lane could become a more than adequate location for us to comfortably accommodate larger crowds even if we do manage to get into Lge 2 in the future.
Some folks will disagree but in the cold light of day, we are better off staying put IMO.
I agree, cant see us needing a capacity of more than 6k even if we were to reach league 1. 5k would probably be enough, just cap away fans if need be .4K home fans and 1k away .
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^^^^^ That's it in a nutshell ^^^^^
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I think the demographic on this forum which tends towards older more long-standing supporters probably skews the results a bit. Wonder what the growing younger elements of our Fanbase would say. IMO Moss Lane sadly looks increasingly out of place in the National League of today & I don’t just mean against the big ex EFL outfits. Think of similar sized clubs in the division to us-Halifax, Kiddy etc.
Much as staying at Moss Lane would be great I think all four sides of the ground need fairly substantial modernisation & doubtless long running & tedious planning permission debates with Trafford & local residents (think of all the trouble we’ve had just doing the fanzone). So, if another relatively central-ish site could be found it may be from a financial & logistical POV that makes more sense. We have the lessons of history re Northwich & Runcorn & moving to the wrong location or somewhere completely soulless but think the challenges of doing up Moss Lane to a fully modern set up can’t be ignored.
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I think the demographic on this forum which tends towards older more long-standing supporters probably skews the results a bit. Wonder what the growing younger elements of our Fanbase would say. IMO Moss Lane sadly looks increasingly out of place in the National League of today & I don’t just mean against the big ex EFL outfits. Think of similar sized clubs in the division to us-Halifax, Kiddy etc.
Much as staying at Moss Lane would be great I think all four sides of the ground need fairly substantial modernisation & doubtless long running & tedious planning permission debates with Trafford & local residents (think of all the trouble we’ve had just doing the fanzone). So, if another relatively central-ish site could be found it may be from a financial & logistical POV that makes more sense. We have the lessons of history re Northwich & Runcorn & moving to the wrong location or somewhere completely soulless but think the challenges of doing up Moss Lane to a fully modern set up can’t be ignored.
I'm dead against moving to South London.😁
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Wimbledon maybe? :D
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its a tough one. Its home after all. not sure the location is expandable or sustainable. maybe if we stuck a new build on the allotments out the back and then once built use the existing stadium footprint for proper parking etc?
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Emotionally ML of course. But if we are faced with a stark choice of needing a new site to justify progression through the football league (if the new investors are willing to really put their hands in their combined pockets), then so be it. Obviously as long as it's not some crazy site miles away.
This would be a nice problem to have frankly
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Guessing that there must be a complete lack of reasonably priced land around here.....land that is available for commercial development - which I assume includes football clubs.
On the basis a house here costs double for the same dwelling in Oldham or Bury, then I think we will surely struggle to identify a site that is not in the middle of nowhere. Dont want to end up in an industrial estate like Vics
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Sale Sharks have had exactly the same problem and I think they are significally more wealthy than us. They were hopimg to move to Sale Harriers running club recently but that fell through due to local opposition.
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We aren't moving anywhere (even though it's entertaining to discuss it).
We just need to redevelop the pop side into mostly seats and a place for the singers at the chequers end, then tart up the away end with partial cover and a couple of hundred seats, decent toilets and an away limit of about 1200 and Bob's your uncle. That's all we'll need up to and including league one. I just can't see us averaging more than 5k so that would be absolutely fine.
Steeper terracing in the Golf Road would be the icing on the cake.
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If you Google map the area 2 plots seem bigger than moss lane one between King George and the golf club and the bigger behind Long hey and grove Lane, possibly called Grove Park? This area might have gas issues or something though? Council would have to be on board ontop of big investment and sale of moss lane , worth it? Probably not moss lane has potential to be a great 7000 capacity ground.
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It would have to be multi use recreation. We could build on top of the driving range with little effect to residential. If we filled one side with indoor simulators we've improved the golfers experience and created multiple uses. Add in a 30m indoor shooting range under the other side and the shooting club are sorted for...
I've not spent any time thinking about this at all.
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We aren't moving anywhere (even though it's entertaining to discuss it).
We just need to redevelop the pop side into mostly seats and a place for the singers at the chequers end, then tart up the away end with partial cover and a couple of hundred seats, decent toilets and an away limit of about 1200 and Bob's your uncle. That's all we'll need up to and including league one. I just can't see us averaging more than 5k so that would be absolutely fine.
Steeper terracing in the Golf Road would be the icing on the cake.
Building a mostly seated stand on the popular side where you have it terraced at one end so people can move to it from a different part of the ground for 45 minutes sounds like a logistical and safety nightmare to be honest. We need to get in the culture of staying in the same part of the ground for 90 minutes as is the norm at this level and higher.
As for moving, I genuinely cannot think of anywhere that's not out of town which wouldn't cost an absolute fortune to just buy the land, have few planning restrictions on it or no local opposition. Best to make the most of where we are and enjoy it's many benefits
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Do we actually need additional seating in the Popular Side? After visiting AFC Fylde for the first time in our recent league game, I think their ground is the ideal template for the size of club Alty can ever realistically be. Personally the main focus for me would be redeveloping the Main Stand and the hospitality/away stand. Knock them both down and rebuild from scratch. Redo the terracing at the Golf Road End, add a partial roof to the away end and maybe put on a new roof on the Popular Side, so it's all one level for possibly the first time this century! All of this ofcourse would cost alot of money, but its certainly needed as has been said before, Moss Lane is certainly showing its age. As for moving, the very limited spaces available for a new ground near the town centre, and the fact, even if the club was in League 1 or 2, its difficult to see average crowds of much more than 4000, I wouldn't see that as being necessary.
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Do we actually need additional seating in the Popular Side? After visiting AFC Fylde for the first time in our recent league game, I think their ground is the ideal template for the size of club Alty can ever realistically be. Personally the main focus for me would be redeveloping the Main Stand and the hospitality/away stand. Knock them both down and rebuild from scratch. Redo the terracing at the Golf Road End, add a partial roof to the away end and maybe put on a new roof on the Popular Side, so it's all one level for possibly the first time this century! All of this ofcourse would cost alot of money, but its certainly needed as has been said before, Moss Lane is certainly showing its age. As for moving, the very limited spaces available for a new ground near the town centre, and the fact, even if the club was in League 1 or 2, its difficult to see average crowds of much more than 4000, I wouldn't see that as being necessary.
I guess the issue is that it's a lot cheaper and simpler to build the single stand in one go without the need for any dressing rooms, hospitality, offices etc. The other issue is probably grading where you need capability for an extra 1000 seats in the football league and I don't know where else you do that without major knock on effects.
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If we could get the allotment land and turn 90 degrees, it would literally solve every issue; 2 sides of the ground could remain largely unchanged in the short term (the current main stand and family terrace could become a quirky end), and just extend the paving of the Chequers End further down that side.
Being down the narrower end of the pitch would give the room to build a brilliant main stand on Golf Road with modest hospitality facilities at the top, changing rooms/club offices inside one half and probably incorporate the Mark Maddox Fan Zone inside the other half (with Mad Dog's bar inside!)
Community Hall still open in the corner and inside the ground's footprint, but no longer in eye view of the pitch. Give away fans exclusive use of the family stand (plus the facilities inside), build a proper toilet block where the current food/toilet huts are, leave the power station exactly where it is.
Proper big terraced John King Home End right on the allotments, probably more like one of the ends at the AJ Bell Stadium I'd say - rather than Fylde for example.
Here's dreaming!
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Some great ideas on this thread.
Fingers crossed for the Euromillions eh? 🤞
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I think the allotments would be very difficult to procure, and I’m not sure whether or not they have some sort of protection order over them as to what can the land actually be used for. I expect the people who work the allotments would put up a fight if they thought their allotments were under threat.. plus the land wouldn’t come cheap if it was possible to get them,. I think a redeveloped Moss lane ground in its current footprint with the car park to the rear of the popular side would suffice, I can’t see the need to relocate any time soon unless we progressed up the EFL pyramid somewhat. Whatever the progress of our club, the attendance will always be stifled by our two neighbours up the road,
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My strongest proposal would be to start negotiations at some or other level with Trafford MBC sooner rather than later and sound them out on a number of the options put forward here to see what is possibly doable and what is not before opportunities that may be available now soon disappear.
My suggestion is to redevelop the current site of the ground as a multi-use sports stadium and Community Leisure Centre in Partnership with Trafford MBC.
I think I am right about Trafford MBC owning all the land involved and so it would make sense for them, as an existing stakeholder to get onboard a plan for a redeveloped Stadium incorporating a new leisure centre. Some of the allotment holders would have to say goodbye to their plots in order for development to go ahead but if offered the the right compensation and given that the development would benefit many more Trafford residents than the the allotments have ever done (or are ever likely to) I think that it could well be worth looking into.
My plan would be for Trafford BC to sell the prime Town Centre land to a developer (where the Leisure Centre once stood) and to invest the money along with investment money raised by the Football Club to redevelop Moss Lane but with the inclusion of a new Combined Swimming Pool and leisure centre with a Sports Hall, all weather pitch, gym, etc. that could also used by the Club. If this was thought out well enough could it not negate the need for having to pay Egerton to use their facilities?
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I like the sound of the above, surely there could be a deal to re locate some allotments into the golf course land?
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I think the allotments would be very difficult to procure, and I’m not sure whether or not they have some sort of protection order over them as to what can the land actually be used for. I expect the people who work the allotments would put up a fight if they thought their allotments were under threat.. plus the land wouldn’t come cheap if it was possible to get them,. I think a redeveloped Moss lane ground in its current footprint with the car park to the rear of the popular side would suffice, I can’t see the need to relocate any time soon unless we progressed up the EFL pyramid somewhat. Whatever the progress of our club, the attendance will always be stifled by our two neighbours up the road,
A redeveloped Moss Lane is probably the only realistic and cost effective option. See the above. Unless we were to progress to the Championship (!) then nothing bigger would be needed....see Burton Albion who 'only' have two mediocre clubs (in PL terms) nearby.
Still nice to dream though.
Forget any idea of Trafford coming up trumps. The so called Altair on the car park site must have been stuck in the mud now for 20 years. A pub got demolished to make way for a state of the art ice rink and we got a corrugated shed with blockwork walls..supposedly temporary, but now permanent after some dodgy retrospective planing consent pushed through. Add an apartment complex site that has remained an eyesore now for years and a decision to refurbish a 70s leisure centre instead of a re- build. They do not fill me with confidence in becoming a club redevelopment partner.
The ground does need a lot of work, but to really grow, the first thing we need is a winning team. This is what will initially draw in fans and investment. We can worry about fan experience (imo) and look to have a 21st century stadium once we are heading for L1
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This has certainly been one of the most entertaining threads on here in quite a while. 👍🇦🇹🏟️
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Trafford are already spending £20m plus on doing up the leisure centre so the notion of them then doing a massive new complex elsewhere would be dead in the water to be honest.
It's a nice idea in theory but you'd have the massive costs, politics and protests of paying off allotment holders, having to build new roads (Golf Road would be totally unsuitable in its current form), unhappy neighbours, green belt activists etc.
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Spot on Bob
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The levels of positivity in here despite the completely contrasting views on staying or going is great.
The points above about Trafford are sadly bang on. Altrincham has developed as a town in spite of the council, not because of them.
Their responses to bringing the biggest Rugby team in the north back to the borough were rejected on several occasions. The reason they left was resident objections to expansion of Heywood Road.
It's a shame really, because there would be a huge boost to the borough if we had a growing football league club to go with the best rugby & for the sake of this argument the biggest football club in the world here as well.
Imagine we were in a better timeline for a second if you will...
Carrington is a dump compared to modern training facilities, if Trafford pulled their finger out we could build an ethiad style campus with two world class stadiums (big one for UTD, 15,000 or so one for us, Utd ladies, Sale Sharks maybe.).
Include a community sports complex that is also home to a training ground with world class facilities. You could even look to fold in the England Hockey Academy that is based at Timperley. A world class golf training facility would also be nice, and since qualifying for the north west regional squad is held at Dunham Forrest there is a base for that nearby as well.
Anyway dreaming over, back to reality...
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Imagine we could have a ground that look like this in 7 years time https://definearchitects.co.uk/projects/altrincham-football-club
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Imagine we could have a ground that look like this in 7 years time https://definearchitects.co.uk/projects/altrincham-football-club
Just in time for my 80th birthday celebrations! 😉
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if its going to snow like that we probably should get undersoil heating too :)