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[TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe]

And i also guess you have to pay for our players travel expenses ?

I believe so.

And the sum could be around £1,000.

[TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe]

The weather has been good for the last 2 days so I'm shocked that it was called off.  Was that part of the pitch covered last night?  How much would have it cost if it wasn't?

That's a reasonable point, to be honest.

Covering the entire pitch is no doubt financially impractical but would it be at all possible to protect that particular area in front of the main stand which appears to be the major problem in such cold conditions?

We could always create a patchwork cover comprised of George Heslop's old vests and long johns....   

[Ballers]

Ballers,

I'm surprised I have to say that someone who HAS played at something above local parks level seems to be so unaware.

Also the " (older) 4th official" wasn't actually the fourth official whom I actually know and who didn't arrive until about two minutes before he called it off but the assessor, a guy who had refereed at senior level and was very experienced.

Your comment "Seriously, if that is the benchmark for calling a game off then you would have to call of every game when it has dipped below frezzing the previous night regardless of game day conditiond." absolutely beggars belief I'm afraid.

Are you just trying to be confrontational and controversial?

Would you have been happy to play on that? Would you be happy for the Youth Team to have played on a surface like that? Would you have been the one to have to explain a serious injury?

Well...

The 4th official was the assesor, whatever, he was clearly the most vocal in calling it off. What a surprise there Phil, a match official unable to disagree with his 'assesor' and ending  up agreeing with him. A 'good' decision from the ref in those circumstances I would agree.

Refereeing at senior level and being experienced doesn't mena you are any good, as you know.

Last night the temperature dipped below freezing, today the sun was shining from early on and it was above freezing. Ergo, if the picth was unplaable today, it will also be so every time the temperature dips elow freezing the night before. QED.

No and no. Are you?

Yes I would actually, I have played on many a surface (above parks level) where it has got better as time goes on, in certain instances iwth an agreement with the ref to look at it a certain time. Something that today's ref, presumably under pressure form the 4th official assessor didnt do, despite the fact that if he had spoken to the players and management from both sides could have done. Sometimes, I despair that referees who have not played the game to a certain level and have no idea of running at a certain pace and having to turn in a certain style/speed feel that they somehow know what the surface is like to play on. He did not even have the grace/bottle to discuss it with both teams.

I would have been happy for the youth team to ahve played on that surface. I would say that they regularly do, however it is rare that they play on a surface as flat and unrutted as that, another factor seemingly missed.

No, I wouldn't have been the one to explain a serious injury. I would have been the one to explain to the players that the game was going ahead in playable circumstances but they shpuld be aware that it was not as 100% as it could be and they take the field at their own risk (having of course assessed the pitch and discussed it with both management teams and having given the visitors the courtesy of waiting a further 5 mins for them to arrive rather than arrogantly disregarding them).

Had both teams been so keen to play I would have advised that the game would go ahead but reserved the right to abandon the game at any point. Of course, having notified the home club of this they would be able to make arrangement such as printing vouchers to refund any paying customers etc. Even if this meant the game being called off at 3.05pm. Howver had I done this I would not have been able to collect my fee and returned home, doubtless to referee the rearranged game at the same cost.

Of course, this level of lateral thinking always ruled me out of a refereeing career. And, as you well know Phil, I have always shown a high level of regard, respect and understaning of the jobs that match officials do. In this instance (unlike NYD when the pitch was clearly dubious) a very questionable decision was made, most unfortunately for the wrong reasons.

The game should have gone ahead today, at the very least common sense should have prevailed. Unfortunately it didn't. As such, 'respect' will never follow.

[seasonticket]

Question for ATS.
Why was the assesor involved in the pitch inspection? I thought he was there to assess the ref's performance, certainly not to influence his decision making. There again we all know that with an assessor sat in the stand the ref performs differently. Example the infamous Ross Joyce, no assessor at Newcastle Blue Star, not bad performance. Assessor present v Rushden and Diamonds, need I say more.

[Hale Alty]

Two games come to mind that were played in far worse conditions than would have been experienced yesterday. 1994/5 at Northwich and (guessing) 1997/8 at Macclesfield (2-1 Alty win). Both pitches white and frozen yet the nobody seemed to complain. Im sure I remember players slipping in the Northwich game.

Have the rules changed in the last ten years? I'm sure nowadays refs are looking for reasons to call games off rather than have them go ahead.

[DAB @ ALTY]

I was left wondering just what GH would have made of the decision
to call it off.As a manager with such a long injury list I would have
expected him to be a little relieved that it was off but from a club
prospective,with the loss of much needed revenue,I suppose he
would have wanted to play.I expect the priorities of many managers
would have been the match off action but at a part time club like ours
then the managers priorities to team or club are quite different
to what many managers in this league would have preferred.

[Dougals Dad]

Why are we arguing with each other?

The decision was the refs - right or wrong there's not a lot anyone else can do.

[AltyTunnelSteward]

Question for ATS.
Why was the assesor involved in the pitch inspection? I thought he was there to assess the ref's performance, certainly not to influence his decision making. There again we all know that with an assessor sat in the stand the ref performs differently. Example the infamous Ross Joyce, no assessor at Newcastle Blue Star, not bad performance. Assessor present v Rushden and Diamonds, need I say more.

I'm not sure how much 'influence' he had. I was merely explaining that he wasn't the fourth official. I'm not even entirely sure that he was involved in the pitch inspection.

Many of the Cheshire League games I officiate in, when assessed, the assessor can and frequently does ask to be present from the moment officials arrive all the way through pre match instructions up to the point where the officials get changed.

Don't know what it's like in your sphere of activity but I have both used the experience of others and offered my experience to others to assist in decision making both at work, at Moss Lane and on the field of play whilst officiating and to be honest why wouldn't I?

[seasonticket]

My sphere of activity, I am retired and if I thought it would make a difference I would offer my experience of retirement to persade some of the dodgy refs we have had at ML to do likewise.

[SW]

My sphere of activity, I am retired and if I thought it would make a difference I would offer my experience of retirement to persade some of the dodgy refs we have had at ML to do likewise.

Superb! Made me laugh,

[Mallorca Alty]

Ballers,

I'm surprised I have to say that someone who HAS played at something above local parks level seems to be so unaware.

Also the " (older) 4th official" wasn't actually the fourth official whom I actually know and who didn't arrive until about two minutes before he called it off but the assessor, a guy who had refereed at senior level and was very experienced.

Your comment "Seriously, if that is the benchmark for calling a game off then you would have to call of every game when it has dipped below frezzing the previous night regardless of game day conditiond." absolutely beggars belief I'm afraid.

Are you just trying to be confrontational and controversial?

Would you have been happy to play on that? Would you be happy for the Youth Team to have played on a surface like that? Would you have been the one to have to explain a serious injury?

Well...

The 4th official was the assesor, whatever, he was clearly the most vocal in calling it off. What a surprise there Phil, a match official unable to disagree with his 'assesor' and ending  up agreeing with him. A 'good' decision from the ref in those circumstances I would agree.

Refereeing at senior level and being experienced doesn't mena you are any good, as you know.

Last night the temperature dipped below freezing, today the sun was shining from early on and it was above freezing. Ergo, if the picth was unplaable today, it will also be so every time the temperature dips elow freezing the night before. QED.

No and no. Are you?

Yes I would actually, I have played on many a surface (above parks level) where it has got better as time goes on, in certain instances iwth an agreement with the ref to look at it a certain time. Something that today's ref, presumably under pressure form the 4th official assessor didnt do, despite the fact that if he had spoken to the players and management from both sides could have done. Sometimes, I despair that referees who have not played the game to a certain level and have no idea of running at a certain pace and having to turn in a certain style/speed feel that they somehow know what the surface is like to play on. He did not even have the grace/bottle to discuss it with both teams.

I would have been happy for the youth team to ahve played on that surface. I would say that they regularly do, however it is rare that they play on a surface as flat and unrutted as that, another factor seemingly missed.

No, I wouldn't have been the one to explain a serious injury. I would have been the one to explain to the players that the game was going ahead in playable circumstances but they shpuld be aware that it was not as 100% as it could be and they take the field at their own risk (having of course assessed the pitch and discussed it with both management teams and having given the visitors the courtesy of waiting a further 5 mins for them to arrive rather than arrogantly disregarding them).

Had both teams been so keen to play I would have advised that the game would go ahead but reserved the right to abandon the game at any point. Of course, having notified the home club of this they would be able to make arrangement such as printing vouchers to refund any paying customers etc. Even if this meant the game being called off at 3.05pm. Howver had I done this I would not have been able to collect my fee and returned home, doubtless to referee the rearranged game at the same cost.

Of course, this level of lateral thinking always ruled me out of a refereeing career. And, as you well know Phil, I have always shown a high level of regard, respect and understaning of the jobs that match officials do. In this instance (unlike NYD when the pitch was clearly dubious) a very questionable decision was made, most unfortunately for the wrong reasons.

The game should have gone ahead today, at the very least common sense should have prevailed. Unfortunately it didn't. As such, 'respect' will never follow.

You are never ruled out of a refereeing career. If you ever wanted to take up the whistle. I am pretty sure you could reach a higher level than you played at. You may be too old to reach the premiership. Though John Stokes started refing when he finished playing in his 30's and he is now a Premiership Assistant Ref(linesperson) in his 40's.