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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: cheshire cat on January 20, 2024, 07:38:33 PM
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Calderdale council are looking to address a shortfall in their future budget. One option they are considering is selling The Shay.
I can't see what the fans take on things are. You have to register to view their forum.
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I don't think you're going to need to register to bet they're almost all up in arms about it! 😉
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35 page thread and counting. Although it has got to the point of discussing Nazi beliefs and German front line...
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35 page thread and counting. Although it has got to the point of discussing Nazi beliefs and German front line...
Brilliant!
A drifting thread.
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Terrible news.
Could sell to an investor and give AFC a lease......equals rent rises and probably relegation back to North
Could sell to a developer.....same as above if groundsharing with BPA or Dewsbury....or worse...club folds
Did the Countil not rescue the club when it went bust....say peppercorn rent for the Shay tenancy ?
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I first picked the story up on the rugby clubs facebook page. They're in the mire too
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Worrying times for us. Best case scenario would be council to give lease to an independent not for profit trust, with representation from both clubs on the trust committee. Majority of fans do not want the clubs to be in control of the stadium outright. Our council has prioritised the piece hall and are willing to underwrite that to ridiculous amounts of money. While they don't do anything to promote The shay at all, or get more use out of it. If they are actually tried harder, they could probably easily recoup the 161,000 they say they are losing per year on the shay, compared to the millions annually they invest in the piece hall.
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So how does our situation differ from that of FC Halifax. Are we leasing the ground from Trafford Borough?
I tried to register on the Shay men forum to find out what's going on but they don't seem to be signing up new members at the moment. Probably trying to avoid an influx of trolls
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Worrying times for us. Best case scenario would be council to give lease to an independent not for profit trust, with representation from both clubs on the trust committee. Majority of fans do not want the clubs to be in control of the stadium outright. Our council has prioritised the piece hall and are willing to underwrite that to ridiculous amounts of money. While they don't do anything to promote The shay at all, or get more use out of it. If they are actually tried harder, they could probably easily recoup the 161,000 they say they are losing per year on the shay, compared to the millions annually they invest in the piece hall.
Yes, but The Piece Hall has got both Debbie Harry and Grace Jones appearing there this year, whereas The Shay can only offer Luke Summerfield and Festus Arthur...
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So how does our situation differ from that of FC Halifax. Are we leasing the ground from Trafford Borough?
I tried to register on the Shay men forum to find out what's going on but they don't seem to be signing up new members at the moment. Probably trying to avoid an influx of trolls
Given what happened in recent years, we're responsibile for the ground, and they the lands. Whereas Halifax own or operate neither.
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So how does our situation differ from that of FC Halifax. Are we leasing the ground from Trafford Borough?
I tried to register on the Shay men forum to find out what's going on but they don't seem to be signing up new members at the moment. Probably trying to avoid an influx of trolls
Given what happened in recent years, we're responsibile for the ground, and they the lands. Whereas Halifax own or operate neither.
And don't we also have many years left on the lease....hence protected from Council deciding to sell the land the ground sits on
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So how does our situation differ from that of FC Halifax. Are we leasing the ground from Trafford Borough?
I tried to register on the Shay men forum to find out what's going on but they don't seem to be signing up new members at the moment. Probably trying to avoid an influx of trolls
Given what happened in recent years, we're responsibile for the ground, and they the lands. Whereas Halifax own or operate neither.
Trafford own the freehold to the land on which our stadium sits. We lease the land from them and this is in place until 2095. The actual stadium itself belongs to the club. I believe the actual stadium in Halifax is owned by the council.
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OK. Thanks for that. It explains why the council expected our club to address all the H&S issues.
I am party to a similar lease. 25 years in our case. The rent is adjusted every five years. An opportunity for the landlord to turn the screw.
I'm surprised that the feeling at Halifax is that the council should find a third party who is willing to buy the ground and lease it back to the sports clubs. At the moment the council are running the ground at a loss.
Any third party will most likely be wanting to make a handsome profit.
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OK. Thanks for that. It explains why the council expected our club to address all the H&S issues.
I am party to a similar lease. 25 years in our case. The rent is adjusted every five years. An opportunity for the landlord to turn the screw.
I'm surprised that the feeling at Halifax is that the council should find a third party who is willing to buy the ground and lease it back to the sports clubs. At the moment the council are running the ground at a loss.
Any third party will most likely be wanting to make a handsome profit.
We don't want third party ownership, but we also don't feel the clubs are capable of running the stadium. We are currently being run with no ambition, there is no effort to grow the club. Dont take this the wrong way but traditionally we have been a bigger club than Alty. However on our forum we use Alty, as what we should be doing. You're showing ambition and are signing players, engaging fans and opening club shops. Things we don't seem able to do. I would say you've already passed us now.
There is no way our two clubs could run the shay outright, it would need a major culture shift especially at the football club for it to work. However we do need the freedom of not having the council make out decisions for us. We make nothing off any sales at ground and are. The councils mercy with any groind/pitch improvements.
Like I said a not for profit trust(like we did in past) with representatives from both clubs would be the best option to most fans. Would allow us to have more say and freedom of using the Shay and actually benefiting from it and also the community. The Shay is criminally underused by the council, as they don't care or have the means to do more.
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Thanks for that AussieShaymen. I missed the not for profit bit. Good luck with that. It sounds like you need a philanthropist or someone with a bit of vision.
It looks like the first step is to understand why there's a shortfall of £160K a year and what the chances are of being able to address that.
I take your point about Halifax being a bigger club historically. Really, rather than looking at us you should be taking a good look at how Spirites have managed to turn things around imho.
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It's truly devastating news to all you devoted fans Aussie Shaymen . I sincerely hope there is a silver lining for you all from some avenue along the way for it does'nt look good at all atm . Halifax have a proud history , i even remember when you hammered Man City 1-0 in the FA cup in 1980 !
In this chapter of your adventure you have become one of Alty's main and most respected rivals and we have had many close and exciting battles down the years . I'm sure i speak for all at Alty in wishing you the best and better times ahesd .
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Thanks for that AussieShaymen. I missed the not for profit bit. Good luck with that. It sounds like you need a philanthropist or someone with a bit of vision.
It looks like the first step is to understand why there's a shortfall of £160K a year and what the chances are of being able to address that6.
I take your point about Halifax being a bigger club historically. Really, rather than looking at us you should be taking a good look at how Spirites have managed to turn things around imho.
Nope.....The Spirerites have a number of millionaire backers on board....all are genuine fans from the town. The Chesterfield model is not based on any commercial genius...just money.
Like Notts County and Wrexham, they have a substantial fanbase when winning. Crowds Altrincham and Halifax can only aspire to
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We're getting crowds now that I used to only aspire to! 😉
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That's interesting Saughall Robin. I was monitoring them during the Covid seasons. They were pleading poverty and applied for a a grant rather than a loan during the second round of handouts.
Maybe the local money men have come on board since then.
Looking at The Shay, you would think that the infrastructure is there to do well. We are doing well despite the infrastructure!
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Thanks for that AussieShaymen. I missed the not for profit bit. Good luck with that. It sounds like you need a philanthropist or someone with a bit of vision.
It looks like the first step is to understand why there's a shortfall of £160K a year and what the chances are of being able to address that.
I take your point about Halifax being a bigger club historically. Really, rather than looking at us you should be taking a good look at how Spirites have managed to turn things around imho.
Chesterfield? They're in millions of pounds of debt. Hardly a recipe for success
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How bad is the debt? Likely to be recouped with promotoin?
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That's interesting Saughall Robin. I was monitoring them during the Covid seasons. They were pleading poverty and applied for a a grant rather than a loan during the second round of handouts.
Maybe the local money men have come on board since then.
Looking at The Shay, you would think that the infrastructure is there to do well. We are doing well despite the infrastructure!
They had a local money man in Dave Allen....ex Sheff Weds owner....he is a multi millionaire who runs casinos and dog tracks.....hmmmm. He withdrew his backing after a fall out and the club went from the L1 playoffs to almost ConfN as a result.The club is now owned by a Community Trust and run by committee.
They did well during covid....they won an insurance claim having been seemingly insured against any losses during a pandemic.
No idea if they in a good or dire financial position. I have a friend within the club who insists the former. What I do know is they will challenge for a second promotion next season
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How bad is the debt? Likely to be recouped with promotoin?
Despite big cup runs its multi millions.
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How bad is the debt? Likely to be recouped with promotoin?
Despite big cup runs its multi millions.
How do you know this Hashtag.....what is your source ?.....Accounts are not public....or speculation based on wage bill
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How bad is the debt? Likely to be recouped with promotoin?
Despite big cup runs its multi millions.
How do you know this Hashtag.....what is your source ?.....Accounts are not public....or speculation based on wage bill
Chesterfield's accounts are in the public domain, they are legally known as CFC 2001 Ltd and on Companies House. A quick look at the most recent accounts for 2021/2 showed they lost about £2.4m but a share issue and probable writing off of debts has made them solvent. Will be interesting to see where they are up to as of last summer when the accounts are published.
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How bad is the debt? Likely to be recouped with promotoin?
Despite big cup runs its multi millions.
How do you know this Hashtag.....what is your source ?.....Accounts are not public....or speculation based on wage bill
Chesterfield's accounts are in the public domain, they are legally known as CFC 2001 Ltd and on Companies House. A quick look at the most recent accounts for 2021/2 showed they lost about £2.4m but a share issue and probable writing off of debts has made them solvent. Will be interesting to see where they are up to as of last summer when the accounts are published.
Thanks.
They lost a lot of money then....but that does not necessarily mean they are millions in debt.....if losses fully covered with no strings attached..which I believe is the case.
BTW our accounts are not dissimilar recently, albeit not in the same magnitude regards losses.
Interesting to see how it pans out then at Chesterfield.
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How bad is the debt? Likely to be recouped with promotoin?
Despite big cup runs its multi millions.
How do you know this Hashtag.....what is your source ?.....Accounts are not public....or speculation based on wage bill
Chesterfield's accounts are in the public domain, they are legally known as CFC 2001 Ltd and on Companies House. A quick look at the most recent accounts for 2021/2 showed they lost about £2.4m but a share issue and probable writing off of debts has made them solvent. Will be interesting to see where they are up to as of last summer when the accounts are published.
Thanks.
They lost a lot of money then....but that does not necessarily mean they are millions in debt.....if losses fully covered with no strings attached..which I believe is the case.
BTW our accounts are not dissimilar recently, albeit not in the same magnitude regards losses.
Interesting to see how it pans out then at Chesterfield.
They were in debt, if a share issue fixed it, but that only solved that (2 years ago) they've hardly dropped off spending