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[AltyTunnelSteward]

This is the problem. Nobody believes it until they see it for themself. I have witnessed it many times at Millwall home and away.

So Baldrick, just to get this right, the widely reported behaviour of a contingent of Millwall fans, seen by many on TV is in no way a contributory factor to disorder?

Next thing you'll be telling me that the Police are to blame for global warming and the fact that you cannot get Pikelets in Sainsbury's

[altrincham]

What if a couple of hundred Millwall land in Alty early on the buses and train only to find no one will serve them ale, this could cause more problems than designating a pub for them.

[baldrick]

Millwall have always had more than their fair share of hooligans and they will always turn up for big games, but most games are trouble free. There is no reason to expect any trouble next Saturday. Police have already started making a nuisance of themselves by asking pubs to close. Millwall supporters are expected to put up with this nonsense every time they play outside London. Everyone has a breaking point. You can only push people so far before they react. If the police take a heavy handed approach they can't complain if people retaliate. 

[Bob]

Millwall have always had more than their fair share of hooligans and they will always turn up for big games, but most games are trouble free. There is no reason to expect any trouble next Saturday. Police have already started making a nuisance of themselves by asking pubs to close. Millwall supporters are expected to put up with this nonsense every time they play outside London. Everyone has a breaking point. You can only push people so far before they react. If the police take a heavy handed approach they can't complain if people retaliate. 

So not being allowed into pub would be justification for people to cause trouble?  Is that what you are suggesting?

[altrincham]

Dont think anyones saying its "justification"

[Bob]

No, but the impression I get is that the police effectively stop people going into pubs, people don't like it as a result and cause trouble, and its the fault of the police!  I don't see the logic of that to be honest.  If somebody feels the need to cause trouble because he can't go into a bloddy pub then I think that person himself is to blame, don't you?

[altrincham]

No, but the impression I get is that the police effectively stop people going into pubs, people don't like it as a result and cause trouble, and its the fault of the police!  I don't see the logic of that to be honest.  If somebody feels the need to cause trouble because he can't go into a bloddy pub then I think that person himself is to blame, don't you?

yes

[baldrick]

Why should someone be stopped from using a pub just because other people who happen to support the same football club might cause trouble? If you use that logic in other situations there would be uproar. Imagine saying all black people must be jailed just because one went shoplifting. You can't assume everyone is a hooligan. Most Millwall supporters want a few drinks, a game of pool and an enjoyable day out at a club they are unlikely to ever visit again. Police are supposed to help people, not go out of their way to cause problems.

[altrincham]

True

[alty.fc]

Beer beer we want more beer all the lads are cheering get the....... beers in

[AltyTunnelSteward]

Millwall have always had more than their fair share of hooligans and they will always turn up for big games, but most games are trouble free. There is no reason to expect any trouble next Saturday. Police have already started making a nuisance of themselves by asking pubs to close. Millwall supporters are expected to put up with this nonsense every time they play outside London. Everyone has a breaking point. You can only push people so far before they react. If the police take a heavy handed approach they can't complain if people retaliate. 

So Baldrick just because what you state to be most games are trouble free we should just give the travelling hoardes carte blanche to do what they want when and where they want.

There are clubs who have had problems similar to Millwall but they've sorted them out and now they don't have a problem any more. Sadly this is not a state of affairs which currently applies to a small number from Millwall. From pre season onward this year the small travelling Millwall contingent have caused bother all over the place from Scotland pre-season to various parts of mainland europe where they weren't even playing but have travelled anyway.

I, for one, would rather be unpopular with some away fans but have a greater chance of ensuring the safety of home supporters and staff and the local population and community. If that means a slightly increased Police presence then so be it.

[SW]

We obviously need an increased police and stewarding presence for a game such as this. I think the point is that people will have travelled 200 miles to visit us and should actually be entitled to a bit of hospitality and be allowed to have a drink and get something to eat! If the odd nutter wants to get pi$$ed and kick off they still will with supermarket beer or whatever but alienate all and a lot of people will feel understandably aggrieved.

[teasybeaver]

Very bizarre thread!

I feel sorry for your run of the mill fan who travels up from London and cant have a pint anywhere near the ground, hope it doesn't rain!

[Bob]

Why should someone be stopped from using a pub just because other people who happen to support the same football club might cause trouble? If you use that logic in other situations there would be uproar. Imagine saying all black people must be jailed just because one went shoplifting. You can't assume everyone is a hooligan. Most Millwall supporters want a few drinks, a game of pool and an enjoyable day out at a club they are unlikely to ever visit again. Police are supposed to help people, not go out of their way to cause problems.

You have a valid point in that it is unfair to tar everyone with the same brush.  I feel genuinely sorry for the decent Millwall fans who have had their club's reputation battered by a minority of troublemakers.  The genuine Millwall fans deserve as warm a welcome as any visiting supporter on Saturday.

The thing is, you have to do things sometimes to the detriment of a majority if it means preventing a possible problem among a minority.  I don't like waiting longer at airport security with liquids in plastic bags, having to take my shoes and belt off, being frisked.  But its being done with the right intentions.  I went to a match in Belgium and had to show ID and have my name checked off a list because the fact that I'm English might make me out to be a hooligan!  I didn't like that either but I can understand why its been done.

If people want a drink on Saturday, they can get one.  If, as it has been suggested, a lot of Millwall fans are going into Manchester first then I'm sure there'll be pubs there to take them.  Our bar will be open on Saturday I imagine, so our fans won't go without.  Quite why the police are getting the grief over this is beyond me.

[MillwallLad]

Ahh.

As ever every man and his dog thinking he knows us inside out.

Whoever baldrick is has it almost spot on. The treatment we Millwall fans get on our travels and indeed at HOME is beyond ridiculous.

We're not angels that much is true and we have our reputation justified by our actions, but if you could see the treatment we got today then you could go someway to understanding why incidents occur.

Luton 85. No one actually cares that 11,000 Millwall fans were crammed into a terrace supposed to only hold 6,000 thanks to Luton Town cocking up ticket sales. No one actually cares (or knows) that the reason Millwall first got onto the pitch was to avoid getting crushed. Police attacked us with batons and dogs and people, already very annoyed, reacted. Luton 85 could so easily have been a 'Hillsborough' but as I said, who cares? All the media and everyone else want to know is that we rioted that night because we're scum.

No One Likes Us - We Don't Care.

Now Saturday. We'll take a decent number but nothing major. Millwall is dying on it's arse and the lure of travelling to Altrincham to be treated like scum on your day off is about as tempting as spending a night in with Russell Brand.

For what it's worth I reckon you'll provide a cup shock...the only bods it won't be a shock to is ourselves.