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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: bumble on October 24, 2014, 07:32:13 PM
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Been working on a few bits and bobs for the sports hall, and working with a few designers who aren't fans and they're suprised at the badge.
I know many clubs go under badge re designs in order to maintain copyright (arsenal) or to just freshen up. And many new badges are poor and look very tacky.
However is the badge an issue commercially? Surely a simpler more modern badge would allow better and cheaper merchandise? Or at least improve the margins on it. It contains about 5/6 colours too. I was quoted an extra 90 quid to put our crest on a flag a few years back
With all the great of field stuff we do, would a new more modern design freshen the feelings associated with the club. It looks extremely old fashioned in my view.
Also would fans be completely against a badge design review?
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Great post and idea
Would a more modern and simplistic version of the crest work? Keeps it fresh but still with a traditional feel.
Alas my artistic skills are appalling...
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Great post and idea
Would a more modern and simplistic version of the crest work? Keeps it fresh but still with a traditional feel.
Alas my artistic skills are appalling...
No - our badge is our heritage
Changing our badge is very Stevenage - do you want a cringe worthy motto as well or maybe even worse booming music after every goal scored?
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The badge is the towns charter badge created in 1937.
From a history of Altrincham book I quote :
" The new arms of the borough of Altrincham are as simple and distinctive as possible, the shield therefore is not overloaded. The two wheatsheaves allude to agriculture and farming and the simple wheel symbolises the towns engineering industries. The crest shows a lion similar to that of the lion of England and supports a banner on which is a cornucopia the emblem of abundance. The unicorn carries the shield of the Earl of Stamford whilst the Lion carries the arms of the Earl of Massey. The compartment on which they stand has red white and blue flowers to signify the market gardening activities of the borough. The motto of "Altrincham en avant" translates to "Altrincham leads the way"
Doesn't answer the question like but I'd be interested to know when we adopted the current badge as I am sure for many years we used the robin that you can see at the top of this program, probably for the reasons you state Jack.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwMFg3NTA=/z/d~4AAOxy4YdTWnqL/$_58.JPG)
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I have absolutely no emotional connection to our badge, which tells its own story. It is too fiddly - how many of us knew (before Ecky's post) what it actually depicts? I didn't. I think a new logo, as long as it was simple, clean and elegant, would be a great thing.
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Boom boom - go Team Alty!!!
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Conflating a change of logo with playing music after goals is completely senseless.
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I wouldn't want us to have a new badge though I am a traditionalist and like ecky says we haven't had it that long its the crest of the town
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It's a tough one. I like the crest but wouldn't be against a new one if it was nice enough but It'd take a lot to convince me. :)
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Maybe create a competition to design a new badge? Jolly would definitely win the under 8 section ;-)
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Maybe create a competition to design a new badge? Jolly would definitely win the under 8 section ;-)
Boom boom - go Team Alty!!!
And it's soccer not football
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We didn't use it regularly on our shirts until 1992/3. it is also the logo of the altrincham removals company. Interesting too that is was created as a symbol for the town well after the club was founded.
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I have absolutely no emotional connection to our badge, which tells its own story. It is too fiddly - how many of us knew (before Ecky's post) what it actually depicts? I didn't. I think a new logo, as long as it was simple, clean and elegant, would be a great thing.
Agreed.
Whilst there is something in keeping things purely for the sake of tradition and maintaining a connection with the past. However, I think there's nothing wrong with exploring other possibilities.
It could be quite exciting - invite fans to submit their designs and people could vote for either keeping things the same or for changing.
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I have absolutely no emotional connection to our badge, which tells its own story. It is too fiddly - how many of us knew (before Ecky's post) what it actually depicts? I didn't. I think a new logo, as long as it was simple, clean and elegant, would be a great thing.
Agreed.
Whilst there is something in keeping things purely for the sake of tradition and maintaining a connection with the past. However, I think there's nothing wrong with exploring other possibilities.
It could be quite exciting - invite fans to submit their designs and people could vote for either keeping things the same or for changing.
Fair point
I think we should change the name of the club as well - no point in keeping things for the sake of tradition. And as you say this could be quite exciting
My suggestion is Team Alty Robins of Cheshire, what do you think?
Boom boom
Pass me a coke dude
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i like the crest and would want to keep it - but all for moving with the times of course
In life change is invetable sadly and its also critical for survial - if you dont change and adapt you will fail
I know i have contradicted my self but i do like the crest
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I have absolutely no emotional connection to our badge, which tells its own story. It is too fiddly - how many of us knew (before Ecky's post) what it actually depicts? I didn't. I think a new logo, as long as it was simple, clean and elegant, would be a great thing.
Agreed.
Whilst there is something in keeping things purely for the sake of tradition and maintaining a connection with the past. However, I think there's nothing wrong with exploring other possibilities.
It could be quite exciting - invite fans to submit their designs and people could vote for either keeping things the same or for changing.
Fair point
I think we should change the name of the club as well - no point in keeping things for the sake of tradition. And as you say this could be quite exciting
My suggestion is Team Alty Robins of Cheshire, what do you think?
Boom boom
Pass me a coke dude
i prefer altrincham town
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i like the crest and would want to keep it - but all for moving with the times of course
In life change is invetable sadly and its also critical for survial - if you dont change and adapt you will fail
I know i have contradicted my self but i do like the crest
So disappointed this didn't tease
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Tease off with your new badge nonsense
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I have absolutely no emotional connection to our badge, which tells its own story. It is too fiddly - how many of us knew (before Ecky's post) what it actually depicts? I didn't. I think a new logo, as long as it was simple, clean and elegant, would be a great thing.
Agreed.
Whilst there is something in keeping things purely for the sake of tradition and maintaining a connection with the past. However, I think there's nothing wrong with exploring other possibilities.
It could be quite exciting - invite fans to submit their designs and people could vote for either keeping things the same or for changing.
Fair point
I think we should change the name of the club as well - no point in keeping things for the sake of tradition. And as you say this could be quite exciting
My suggestion is Team Alty Robins of Cheshire, what do you think?
Boom boom
Pass me a coke dude
How long have we used the town crest for? Do you know, Jamie? I don't. Did we use it in the 60s, or the 30s? Just because something's old doesn't mean it's traditional.
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Nottingham Forest are a good example. They just used the city's crest but then got something distinctive of their own which they use to this day and has become part of their heritage in its own right.
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It id typical of modern society to want to mend something which isn't broken
Change to stay funky with the kids is cringe worthy
History (however far back it goes) is worth more than that in my book
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It id typical of modern society to want to mend something which isn't broken
Change to stay funky with the kids is cringe worthy
History (however far back it goes) is worth more than that in my book
Do you hold a senior management position where I work Uday?
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I think the current badge is broken. It isn't distinctively ours, it was created for the whole town well after we were founded, we haven't always used it publicly even in the last 30 years and it is also the logo of a removals company.
Why not have a poll among the fans? If most want to keep it then fair enough.
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i like the crest and would want to keep it - but all for moving with the times of course
In life change is invetable sadly and its also critical for survial - if you dont change and adapt you will fail
I know i have contradicted my self but i do like the crest
So disappointed this didn't tease
I would like to issue a sincere apology to everyone on the forum for a sensible post and I would like to assure everyone that this will not happen again
I hope you can find it in your selves to forgive me
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I think the current badge is broken. It isn't distinctively ours, it was created for the whole town well after we were founded, we haven't always used it publicly even in the last 30 years and it is also the logo of a removals company.
Why not have a poll among the fans? If most want to keep it then fair enough.
you not proud of the town emblem? You think there is a disconnect between the town and the club? You don't want the town emblem associated with the club?
Pitiful if you ask me - and fair play to Altrincham removals for having pride in the town and what it means
How can we expect the town to back us when we show it such scant respect
Shameful
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I think the current badge is broken. It isn't distinctively ours, it was created for the whole town well after we were founded, we haven't always used it publicly even in the last 30 years and it is also the logo of a removals company.
Why not have a poll among the fans? If most want to keep it then fair enough.
you not proud of the town emblem? You think there is a disconnect between the town and the club? You don't want the town emblem associated with the club?
Pitiful if you ask me - and fair play to Altrincham removals for having pride in the town and what it means
How can we expect the town to back us when we show it such scant respect
Shameful
The grammar school doesn't use the crest.
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For a change I completely agree with uday , the town is who what and where we are , the towns emblem represents us all , I personally am all for change with many things but fundamentally that is the towns badge we represent the town end of , If kids of today have know knowledge , love or association of the badge and what it represents then I suggest they go to old trafford and join the " we sell the shiny glossy over priced sh*t with know respect of history " we aren't the richest , we aren't the wealthiest that's not what we are if you think that please go to old Trafford you support alty for good or bad or old fashioned .
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Excellent post hash
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How many other football clubs use the town crest as their logo? Very few, I suspect. It's not a question of disowning the town, it's about creating an image that represents us, rather than one that we've appropriated.
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How many other football clubs use the town crest as their logo? Very few, I suspect. It's not a question of disowning the town, it's about creating an image that represents us, rather than one that we've appropriated.
I disagree - and I don't care what other clubs do
The town crest does for me and I'm proud the club uses it - maybe old fashioned, but some things aren't worth changing just to be trendy
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How many other football clubs use the town crest as their logo? Very few, I suspect. It's not a question of disowning the town, it's about creating an image that represents us, rather than one that we've appropriated.
I disagree - and I don't care what other clubs do
The town crest does for me and I'm proud the club uses it - maybe old fashioned, but some things aren't worth changing just to be trendy
Fair enough, although I'm not advocating a new logo in order to be trendy and I don't think anyone else is either.
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How many other football clubs use the town crest as their logo? Very few, I suspect. It's not a question of disowning the town, it's about creating an image that represents us, rather than one that we've appropriated.
I disagree - and I don't care what other clubs do
The town crest does for me and I'm proud the club uses it - maybe old fashioned, but some things aren't worth changing just to be trendy
Fair enough, although I'm not advocating a new logo in order to be trendy and I don't think anyone else is either.
then what are you advocating it for? Just change for the sake of it?
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City used to have a classy traditional badge now it looks awful and tacky
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How many other football clubs use the town crest as their logo? Very few, I suspect. It's not a question of disowning the town, it's about creating an image that represents us, rather than one that we've appropriated.
I disagree - and I don't care what other clubs do
The town crest does for me and I'm proud the club uses it - maybe old fashioned, but some things aren't worth changing just to be trendy
Fair enough, although I'm not advocating a new logo in order to be trendy and I don't think anyone else is either.
then what are you advocating it for? Just change for the sake of it?
No, I feel a new logo, if it were done well, would be better aesthetically, commercially and spiritually.
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To be honest I can't see it making a bit of diffrence commercially
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I did this new enamel badge design a few years ago to raise money for the club and new steward equipment but i don't think it would look right
on a shirt
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n76/altywidow/ALTRINCHAMBADGENEW.jpg
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I agree with the 2 stars on top because that is showing your proud of history
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I don't mind that scribbled Robin being used for certain things, as it reminds me of the 90s, and us practical. But I've got to be honest, the towns crest should stay. We represent the town, the crest incorporates the cheshire crest within it. Something we've already started to have airbrushed from the towns heritage by the ghastly made up 'trafford' super town.
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I agree with the 2 stars on top because that is showing your proud of history
Agree with two stars jimmy,barnet have it for their conference title wins
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Well done pete good post
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jesus, this is awful. keep the crest.
can we try and retain a modicum of soul to the club.
i dont see attendances flying through the roof anywhere cos someones badge looks like a banksy.
why dont we just win a few games and go on a cup run?
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Cannot believe that I am typing this
I agree with Uday
Changing the badge would be a dreadful thing to do. Why do people have to advocate change seemingly for the sake of change?
I have got about the County and the region more generally over the past twenty years or so whether Refereeing, with the Ladies Team or just spectating. Most of the coats / jackets I wear actually have the crest on and you might be surprised at the number of Clubs with "funky" new images and badges who envy ours
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I'll repeat myself and say that nobody has advocated change 'for the sake of change'. I and others have suggested that the town crest is an overly complex, cumbersome and old-fashioned image and we might be better with something else. You are of course free to disagree but making out that people who disagree with you have no basis for their opinions is tedious beyond belief.
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I'll take the role of ATS and play devils advocate and also stick up for Jack a bit, not sure we need to send him to Old Trafford just yet or put him in the stocks outside The Orange Tree.
Very valid points on both sides I think although I would like some more info from Royton Mike or The Cult on the history of the badge at Alty.
He was saying that from a design, printing and merchandise point of view the current badge is costly to reproduce and what would people thoughts be on changing it and then gave his personal view.
From my website and basic design knowledge I think he is right.
However I love the crest and it's an important link between the club and the town and that is who we represent. So it would be a case of work around the technical stuff and keep it for me (not that the board have suggested otherwise!)
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keep the crest but there is a need for a different design for merchandise.
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I have absolutely no emotional connection to our badge, which tells its own story. It is too fiddly - how many of us knew (before Ecky's post) what it actually depicts? I didn't. I think a new logo, as long as it was simple, clean and elegant, would be a great thing.
Agreed.
Whilst there is something in keeping things purely for the sake of tradition and maintaining a connection with the past. However, I think there's nothing wrong with exploring other possibilities.
It could be quite exciting - invite fans to submit their designs and people could vote for either keeping things the same or for changing.
Fair point
I think we should change the name of the club as well - no point in keeping things for the sake of tradition. And as you say this could be quite exciting
My suggestion is Team Alty Robins of Cheshire, what do you think?
Boom boom
Pass me a coke dude
Quite an amazing straw man there!
Although you actually illustrate the point quite well - changing the name of the club would be silly, any poll would have keeping Altrincham as our name at about 99%. I'm not quite sure that would be the same for our badge...
As for the link between the club and the town, to maintain a link it doesn't require an exact replica. Perhaps the a new design could incorporate elements of the current badge?
Also, given the fact that the club crest has only existed since 1938 that means we went nearly forty years without it! At some point it would have been new and 'against tradition', perhaps it should never have been adopted?
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Yes but the fact that we didn't have a badge before it says it wasn't breaking tradition Am I right in thinking in 1991 we nearly became the only football leauge club without a badge
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I think the current badge is broken. It isn't distinctively ours, it was created for the whole town well after we were founded, we haven't always used it publicly even in the last 30 years and it is also the logo of a removals company.
Why not have a poll among the fans? If most want to keep it then fair enough.
you not proud of the town emblem? You think there is a disconnect between the town and the club? You don't want the town emblem associated with the club?
Pitiful if you ask me - and fair play to Altrincham removals for having pride in the town and what it means
How can we expect the town to back us when we show it such scant respect
Shameful
So by your reckoning, unless a football club uses the town crest, it isn't proud of it's town? Plenty of clubs don't, yet they seem to be ambassadors for the town, have community links, help put the place on the map. We're building a big, expensive hall for the community aren't we? Doesn't that say something?
When city crest ditching, tacky 70s design wearing Nottingham Forest were winning the league, European Cups, other trophies, putting the city's name in headlines around the world, having bus parades, civic receptions and doing more for that city's national and international reputation than most had ever done before, was it shameful? Had they disconnected from the place? Shown scant respect?
At this club's peak, when we were making headlines, winning things, getting our best crowds, going to Wembley or the famous grounds, were we bothering to wear the badge on our shirt (when plenty of others clubs were)? No. Did it mean we weren't proud of the town? Did we not care?
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Fair point but in my opinion something like that devel on uniteds kit looks very tacky as does the new city one anyway let's get rid of badge to showcase jacks work
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Fair point but in my opinion something like that devel on uniteds kit looks very tacky as does the new city one anyway let's get rid of badge to showcase jacks work
I didn't say I personally wanted to be involved in any re design. I was merely posting the question. And quite frankly it isnt all about me me me and showcasing my work. Winning 3 international awards (and 2 in America) last year probably did that better than design a crest for a club that lot of people who work in Manchester haven't heard of.
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Fair play on your talent but in my opinion if you designed the new badge of the club it would mean more than other rewards
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Once you change the badge it's a slippery slope, might aswell change the name & move into a new ground. Badge is tradition and heritage; it's one of the nicer looking badges in the league, it's classy, unlike other teams e.g Halifax or Braintree. When I see our much nicer coat of arms against everyone else's, ours always looks better not at all cheap or tacky like others. Goes without saying that I like every fan am
All for opening up revenue streams for the club but not at the cost of destroying tradition.if it ain't broke don't fix it
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Not quite sure why people think the current badge is 'traditional'. When I started watching Alty in the late 60s they - like most clubs - didn't have any badge on the shirts.
Badges started to be used more widely in the 70s so that clubs could make their shirts unique to their club rather than being generic. It was and is a marketing and commercial ploy so that the clubs could make money from selling replica kits.
There are clubs who have had a badge on their shirts since they were formed in the late 1800s and they regularly change the badges without any issues. My local club, Portsmouth, have regularly changed the badge design over the past 40 years. Their (very passionate) fans don't have any more issue with it then they do with the changes to the shirt design. Some like it, some hate it but at the end of the day they just get over it and move on.
The starting premise for this thread seemed to be that a simpler design might be cheaper to produce and so I assume would help teh club to make more money - just as new shirt designs do.
PS. If you want talk traditional lets get the red shorts back!
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It's odd that people didn't seem to think changing the name of our ground was such a terrible break with tradition, especially considering Moss Lane has been part of our history for much longer than this badge.
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To be honest jimmy I think that's a dreadful idea aswell
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To be honest jimmy I think that's a dreadful idea aswell
Agreed, I know we got cash for it and we can all still call it Moss Lane but it is a bit sad.
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The ground was never really called Moss Lane though was it? Everyone one just called it that because it didn't have any other name.
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The ground was never really called Moss Lane though was it? Everyone one just called it that because it didn't have any other name.
Most 'Names' are like that.
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If we would have turned down the money from Davidsons to rename the ground in the media and in print when every fan would and does still call it Moss Lane then it would have been outrageous. It would also be commercial suicide when every penny is needed to get in and stay in this league.
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If we would have turned down the money from Davidsons to rename the ground in the media and in print when every fan would and does still call it Moss Lane then it would have been outrageous. It would also be commercial suicide when every penny is needed to get in and stay in this league.
I can't see how any right-thinking person could possibly disagree with you.