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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: oneedham on January 23, 2016, 04:35:33 PM
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I need another rant as it needs addressing sooner rather than later.
If by any chance you read the forum then do what a manager should be doing and look at statistics this season. Look at our results playing 4-4-2.
We needed a third energetic, strong box to box centre midfield to play alongside Richman, with Moult doing what he does best breaking down attacks in front of the back 4 as a defensive midfielder.
I believe Sam Heathcote could become a good player but he needs to toughen up and I think the Vanarama National League is too much of a big step at this moment. Lee should have looked at another centre back whilst Havern is having an up and down season with performances and injury and with Marshall way off fitness.
I have been to most home games and a couple of the away games and it is clear from what I have seen that we are not good enough playing 4-4-2, we are far too open and teams run right through us, we also revert back to long ball to Rankine. It does not work. Lee always states that he wants us to pass and play the ball up the field but his current tactics do not indicate this.
GK
RB CB CB LB
DM
CM
AM
RW LW
CF
DM Moult Sitting in front of the back four.
CM Richman Plenty of energy closing players down this position covers all the area in-between the defence and attacking players.
AM - Should have been new loan player but maybe Lawrie but I fear he has not got the stamina or strength to play box to box.This position is higher than Richman and Moult but still involves defensive cover and an attacking option. I say Lawrie because his best position is central and he can find that killer past but hes a very soft player.
We attack a lot better having one up front, all season our centre midfield has needed reinforcement, I appreciate Griffith did our legs but we have brought in 3 loan players and I appreciate we needed wide players after we lost our most attacking and creative player in Clee but we are shipping in goals and we need players to close opposition attacks down.
I am so frustrated that we continue with 4-4-2, football has moved forward and we are trying to compete with full time teams with an outdated 4-4-2 formation. Lee and the players need to sort this out because we can not go back down into that terrible league.
Even at home I would play one up top. We need to become solid. In football it does not mean we will score more goals having two players up top, especially when we struggle getting it up there to them.
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I wouldn't take much notice of what we do away against an in form Grimsby side but agree with you that 442 isn't our best formation by quite a way. I'd personally give Lawrie a proper stint at attacking midfield.
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Agree 100%.
The fact the manager has brought in a forward on loan suggests either he can't see this or is too stubborn to change. Either way if he carries on doing it we will get relegated and he will have to go.
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As stated, losing at Grimsby wont get us relegated, playing 442 will.
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As will trying to play the rest of the season with this back 4 and no cover or support for them
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I don't know what formation we played when we went down 5-0.to Barnet last season, was it a 4-4-2 where we had a go?
We haven't previously had the personnel to make a 4-4-2 effective, but now we find ourselves with 2 promising wingers and a couple of poaching forwards to support the big man, alongside Moult's defensive minded midfield play and Richman's box to box energy. Plus O'keefe to supplement that.
Is that not worth a go?
Stats people, please chip in. Yes, we have lost this season playing 4-4-2, but what are our results with the 4-5-1 against both top teams and teams around us?
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Last season playing 4 4 2 cost us a midtable position I hope this year it's not more costly
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It's so blatantly obvious as well. When I'm home I'll get some stats together about the 4-4-2 / 4-5-1 comparison.
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But WHY is 4-4-2 not working? With Jake and Simon in midfield it really ought to be, especially with the two wingers. I've always pushed for 4-5-1 on here with Lawrie behind Reeves or Rankine, but I just don't understand why we seem to be so bad when we play two up tops. I'd be inclined to blame our numerous defensive injuries at the moment, but we couldn't play 4-4-2 even when Tom and Dens were fit! Please let's just hope that Grimsby are bloody good and that our three loanees were just a bit cold today. I'll be more worried if the forum topics are like this after the Woking game. You just get the feeling that if we could win just one, the confidence would flow, especially in the younger players. Having said that, it's pretty obvious we need another cb - even if it means playing Ranks there.
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Woking will be another tough game, albeit we will be at.home. However, no home games in 2 months doesn't necessarily mean home advantage.
I would still be inclined to go again with this setup, and have a go at them.
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But WHY is 4-4-2 not working? With Jake and Simon in midfield it really ought to be, especially with the two wingers. I've always pushed for 4-5-1 on here with Lawrie behind Reeves or Rankine, but I just don't understand why we seem to be so bad when we play two up tops. I'd be inclined to blame our numerous defensive injuries at the moment, but we couldn't play 4-4-2 even when Tom and Dens were fit! Please let's just hope that Grimsby are bloody good and that our three loanees were just a bit cold today. I'll be more worried if the forum topics are like this after the Woking game. You just get the feeling that if we could win just one, the confidence would flow, especially in the younger players. Having said that, it's pretty obvious we need another cb - even if it means playing Ranks there.
because our players are not good enough, few are conf prem standard......thats WHY
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I just made the same comment about Ranks on another post .
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I would still be inclined to go again with this setup, and have a go at them.
Jesus wept
We sh*t at 4-4-2
Play it and we go down for sure
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Woking will be another tough game, albeit we will be at.home. However, no home games in 2 months doesn't necessarily mean home advantage.
I would still be inclined to go again with this setup, and have a go at them.
mike you can have a go not playing 4 4 2 the most entertaining sides in Europe don't play 4 4 2
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Hours later, still pissed off and I have no right to be because I have not done the distance some have. Respect. However, Lee you and the players need to roll your sleeves up, get dirty and f**king have it. All of you grow some bollocks or I'll come out of retirement with Eddie and Val and smash the league.
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This season was never going to be a comfortable mid table finish after looking at the players we recruited in the summer as early as the pre season games. Apart from Michael Rankine , they haven't really cut the mustard. Add in the injuries to key players, especially Clee as we have no creativity without him and it was always going to be a relegation battle. Yesterday was the thrashing we expected really, but our fate won't be decided on trips to Grimsby , it will be on how many wins we can get in our home games. Moving forward we need an upturn in form for Scott leather, one or both of these kids on the wing to be half decent and a 4-5-1 formation.
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Deasey has been the best summer signing.
Aside from the crippling injury list several of last season's squad have massively underperformed.
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Agree if it wasn't for deasey we be already down
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Pound for pound .. no pun intended .. how many has rankine scored this season vs perry did last to this point in the season ?
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I don't know how they compare as of this point last season, but Rankine has scored more goals so far this season than Perry did in the whole of last season (10 v 8).
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Deasey has been the best summer signing.
Aside from the crippling injury list several of last season's squad have massively underperformed.
Correct, forgot to mention deasy
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I don't know how they compare as of this point last season, but Rankine has scored more goals so far this season than Perry did in the whole of last season (10 v 8).
ta
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That was meant to be an 8, not a 8)
:)
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Prior to the loanees arriving (and I have not seen them yet) the best team we put out is effectively the team that was promoted from CN (just)
We have not improved and a CN team in the National League will struggle - something mentioned before on here - last season we were lucky
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Agree Mike the budget must be higher so how is this the case?
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I don't think Rankine comes cheap
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Prior to the loanees arriving (and I have not seen them yet) the best team we put out is effectively the team that was promoted from CN (just)
We have not improved and a CN team in the National League will struggle - something mentioned before on here - last season we were lucky
I agree as well, indeed would say were much weaker when you consider the loss of Walshaw, Wilkinson etc who are head and shoulders ahead of what we have now
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Agree Ham
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Id rather have O'keefe than Wilkinson
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I agree about Walshaw, but can't help thinking that the sanctification of Greg Wilkinson is well off the mark. Let's be honest, if it wasn't for the playoff goal he'd have been on his way that summer. Plus, County didn't want him, and I understand he doesn;t get a game for Telford now either.
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Before the playoff game wilkinson also got aanother 3 or 4 goals in about 12 matches not a bad ratio,granted probably not good enough but Iv seen nothing from okeefe and Sinnott to suggest they are better also wilkinson was a fringe player Sinnott is first team and would be in midfield to.
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I notice Wally scored twice yesterday......but then it's only Frickley.
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Its a pity Wally didn't want conf lge football. He would have coped well.. He has an aggressive edge to his game which is sadly lacking in this team at the present time. He is a big big miss at this club.
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Before the playoff game wilkinson also got aanother 3 or 4 goals in about 12 matches not a bad ratio,granted probably not good enough but Iv seen nothing from okeefe and Sinnott to suggest they are better also wilkinson was a fringe player Sinnott is first team and would be in midfield to.
It was in a league lower.
Sinnot has been better at rb than any stint he's had as a cm
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Moult richman and Marshall all look better at this level than the one below If densmore was fit Sinnott would be in midfield regardless of him being better at right back
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Oh I'm not saying O'Keefe and Sinnott are any better, it's just that the Wilkinson card gets played all the time, as if he was the great lost midfielder.
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I don't think the players we brought in over the summer are necessarily any better or worse than those who left. The main reason we have struggled this season is the same reason we struggled at the end of last season - no captain, no leader, no Densmore.
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Oh I'm not saying O'Keefe and Sinnott are any better, it's just that the Wilkinson card gets played all the time, as if he was the great lost midfielder.
i agree I don't think Wilko was that good however it's a poor state of affairs that the midfielders we are signing now are no better
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The main reason we have struggled this season is the the injuries .
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Which you can cope better with a bigger squad
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Whilst our failure to replace key injured players early enough (or at all you might argue), our results record without Dens is utterly tripe.
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I was very surprised we didn't strengthen during the first loan window, very surprised.
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3 key moments
1 . Some poor close season acquisition in our control
2. Awful luck with injuries not in our control
3. Didn't react quick enough in our control
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Which you can cope better with a bigger squad
True Jimmy, however that then leads to the quality v quantity argument.
For the record, I can see the benefits of both sides. But if people are saying we're not good enough now and have nothing coming off the bench then that wouldn't necessarily change with a bigger squad.
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Was the Griffiths signing in our control?
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No but it wasn't the best move signing a bloke who's played about 10 games in 2 years
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Fair point. But he still had us over
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Indeed
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Let him walk away with the money far too easily. He'd have never had case in a legal situation so why on earth we just didn't see him off I don't understand.
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The PFA getting involved on his side straight away was probably a point of warning for us.
For what it's worth, I'd have followed it as far as was possible.
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Get him on Judge Rinder
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the moment he appeared for Droylsden we should have been straight on to the PFA to get our money back
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3 key moments
1 . Some poor close season acquisition in our control
2. Awful luck with injuries not in our control
3. Didn't react quick enough in our control
I'd add
4. The management of injuries.
I'm really dismayed that we've got to the stage where there sh*t has hit the fan and we're expecting a few 18 year old kids to get us out of the relegation zone when they should've been brought in in November when they'd have alleviated an injury crisis with no pressure on them.
We got T**tted away at our greatest rivals and at 0-2/3 down we couldn't bring on any players (Rankine and Clee) until 20 mins left because they couldn't manage any more and the other youth teamers on the bench weren't trusted to even come on.
I was utterly flabbergasted that at least two or three players weren't brought in at that point. I can't think of any other club in the country where it would've been acceptable.
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I'd also suggest that we've weakened as O'Keefe doesn't have the legs of Williams or even Moult who has now been sacrificed to fill Cavanagh's role.
When Cav was out the other 3 coped well by covering ground whereas now with Moult holding and Richman and O'Keefe chasing we don't seem to be at the races.
While I'm at it Crowther needs to man up and kick on a bit. I really thought in September he was coming on.
Lawrie needs to make himself undroppable. Griffin needs to start being a leader now.
Reeves and Scott Leather need to stop feeling sorry for themselves and get their standards back.
Only Deasy, Moult and Rankine can say they've consistently played to their standards this year.
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I'd also suggest that we've weakened as O'Keefe doesn't have the legs of Williams or even Moult who has now been sacrificed to fill Cavanagh's role.
When Cav was out the other 3 coped well by covering ground whereas now with Moult holding and Richman and O'Keefe chasing we don't seem to be at the races.
While I'm at it Crowther needs to man up and kick on a bit. I really thought in September he was coming on.
Lawrie needs to make himself undroppable. Griffin needs to start being a leader now.
Reeves and Scott Leather need to stop feeling sorry for themselves and get their standards back.
Only Deasy, Moult and Rankine can say they've consistently played to their standards this year.
In other words Gareth, WE ARE WELL AND TRULY F****D this season. >:(
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I'd also suggest that we've weakened as O'Keefe doesn't have the legs of Williams or even Moult who has now been sacrificed to fill Cavanagh's role.
When Cav was out the other 3 coped well by covering ground whereas now with Moult holding and Richman and O'Keefe chasing we don't seem to be at the races.
While I'm at it Crowther needs to man up and kick on a bit. I really thought in September he was coming on.
Lawrie needs to make himself undroppable. Griffin needs to start being a leader now.
Reeves and Scott Leather need to stop feeling sorry for themselves and get their standards back.
Only Deasy, Moult and Rankine can say they've consistently played to their standards this year.
In other words Gareth, WE ARE WELL AND TRULY F****D this season. >:(
Drama Queen ::)
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I need another rant as it needs addressing sooner rather than later.
If by any chance you read the forum then do what a manager should be doing and look at statistics this season. Look at our results playing 4-4-2.
We needed a third energetic, strong box to box centre midfield to play alongside Richman, with Moult doing what he does best breaking down attacks in front of the back 4 as a defensive midfielder.
I believe Sam Heathcote could become a good player but he needs to toughen up and I think the Vanarama National League is too much of a big step at this moment. Lee should have looked at another centre back whilst Havern is having an up and down season with performances and injury and with Marshall way off fitness.
I have been to most home games and a couple of the away games and it is clear from what I have seen that we are not good enough playing 4-4-2, we are far too open and teams run right through us, we also revert back to long ball to Rankine. It does not work. Lee always states that he wants us to pass and play the ball up the field but his current tactics do not indicate this.
GK
RB CB CB LB
DM
CM
AM
RW LW
CF
DM Moult Sitting in front of the back four.
CM Richman Plenty of energy closing players down this position covers all the area in-between the defence and attacking players.
AM - Should have been new loan player but maybe Lawrie but I fear he has not got the stamina or strength to play box to box.This position is higher than Richman and Moult but still involves defensive cover and an attacking option. I say Lawrie because his best position is central and he can find that killer past but hes a very soft player.
We attack a lot better having one up front, all season our centre midfield has needed reinforcement, I appreciate Griffith did our legs but we have brought in 3 loan players and I appreciate we needed wide players after we lost our most attacking and creative player in Clee but we are shipping in goals and we need players to close opposition attacks down.
I am so frustrated that we continue with 4-4-2, football has moved forward and we are trying to compete with full time teams with an outdated 4-4-2 formation. Lee and the players need to sort this out because we can not go back down into that terrible league.
Even at home I would play one up top. We need to become solid. In football it does not mean we will score more goals having two players up top, especially when we struggle getting it up there to them.
I don't know if you were there tonight, but that was a classic example of 4-4-2 at it's best by attacking in numbers and playing it on the deck.
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I'd also suggest that we've weakened as O'Keefe doesn't have the legs of Williams or even Moult who has now been sacrificed to fill Cavanagh's role.
When Cav was out the other 3 coped well by covering ground whereas now with Moult holding and Richman and O'Keefe chasing we don't seem to be at the races.
While I'm at it Crowther needs to man up and kick on a bit. I really thought in September he was coming on.
Lawrie needs to make himself undroppable. Griffin needs to start being a leader now.
Reeves and Scott Leather need to stop feeling sorry for themselves and get their standards back.
Only Deasy, Moult and Rankine can say they've consistently played to their standards this year.
In other words Gareth, WE ARE WELL AND TRULY F****D this season. >:(
I don't know if you were there tonight or not, but in other words, are we WELL AND TRULY f**kED this season ???
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I'd also suggest that we've weakened as O'Keefe doesn't have the legs of Williams or even Moult who has now been sacrificed to fill Cavanagh's role.
When Cav was out the other 3 coped well by covering ground whereas now with Moult holding and Richman and O'Keefe chasing we don't seem to be at the races.
While I'm at it Crowther needs to man up and kick on a bit. I really thought in September he was coming on.
Lawrie needs to make himself undroppable. Griffin needs to start being a leader now.
Reeves and Scott Leather need to stop feeling sorry for themselves and get their standards back.
Only Deasy, Moult and Rankine can say they've consistently played to their standards this year.
In other words Gareth, WE ARE WELL AND TRULY F****D this season. >:(
I don't know if you were there tonight or not, but in other words, are we WELL AND TRULY f**kED this season ???
Yes, I was in attendance and NO, not so F****D after that win. ;)
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I need another rant as it needs addressing sooner rather than later.
If by any chance you read the forum then do what a manager should be doing and look at statistics this season. Look at our results playing 4-4-2.
We needed a third energetic, strong box to box centre midfield to play alongside Richman, with Moult doing what he does best breaking down attacks in front of the back 4 as a defensive midfielder.
I believe Sam Heathcote could become a good player but he needs to toughen up and I think the Vanarama National League is too much of a big step at this moment. Lee should have looked at another centre back whilst Havern is having an up and down season with performances and injury and with Marshall way off fitness.
I have been to most home games and a couple of the away games and it is clear from what I have seen that we are not good enough playing 4-4-2, we are far too open and teams run right through us, we also revert back to long ball to Rankine. It does not work. Lee always states that he wants us to pass and play the ball up the field but his current tactics do not indicate this.
GK
RB CB CB LB
DM
CM
AM
RW LW
CF
DM Moult Sitting in front of the back four.
CM Richman Plenty of energy closing players down this position covers all the area in-between the defence and attacking players.
AM - Should have been new loan player but maybe Lawrie but I fear he has not got the stamina or strength to play box to box.This position is higher than Richman and Moult but still involves defensive cover and an attacking option. I say Lawrie because his best position is central and he can find that killer past but hes a very soft player.
We attack a lot better having one up front, all season our centre midfield has needed reinforcement, I appreciate Griffith did our legs but we have brought in 3 loan players and I appreciate we needed wide players after we lost our most attacking and creative player in Clee but we are shipping in goals and we need players to close opposition attacks down.
I am so frustrated that we continue with 4-4-2, football has moved forward and we are trying to compete with full time teams with an outdated 4-4-2 formation. Lee and the players need to sort this out because we can not go back down into that terrible league.
Even at home I would play one up top. We need to become solid. In football it does not mean we will score more goals having two players up top, especially when we struggle getting it up there to them.
I don't know if you were there tonight, but that was a classic example of 4-4-2 at it's best by attacking in numbers and playing it on the deck.
Yes I was there and we played very well with 4-4-2, Ginnelly and Margetts made a huge difference to playing that formation as they both closed down and defended from the front. We looked dangerous going forward, I really enjoyed the game but if you think we can keep that tempo for the remaining games at 4-4--2 then you can have my house. Scott looked more confident with an experienced defender next to him. Rankine was immense, the whole team were excellent. Keep it going.