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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Spring on March 28, 2017, 08:51:55 AM
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Purely for interest and to learn something, can anyone tell me about the shareholding in Altrincham FC? Who owns the shares and what Is their estimated worth? Were they bought or transferred from a previous owner?
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Sorry, I was being thick.....the information is publicly available via the Companies House website. I have learnt what I needed.
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This was discussed about six months ago. Someone put up a link to a document that included all the shareholders and the size of their holding.
It is known that there are shares available to be bought. Around 12 months ago both Geoff Goodwin and Carole Nash have indicated they would sell to interested parties. There are also holders of significant numbers of shares who play no active roll in the club and seem to have little interest in its fortunes.
For what it is worth Stockport County are in the same predicament.
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Yes the 2016 document was fascinating, although this was before The recent changes of Shaw, Daine and Waterson. There appears to be two types of shares that make up the capital with over half being non voting and the whole of this is owned by John King......I presume the ex Manager? The voting shares are as you say fairly disparate but it is clear where control is and where it isn't with the board members now looking pretty weak as compared to the Chairman
In theory if somebody did have a couple of thousand pounds they could wrest control.......we will have to have a bucket collection at the Alfreton match....ha ha!
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If somebody were moderately well off, rather than skint like me, they could buy Geoff Goodwin out and become our new major shareholder.....then things just might change.
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One presumes Geoff Goodwin is a big supporter of the current Chairman.
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The other fascinating aspect is what happened to Andrew Shaws shares......he was the second biggest shareholder. Did he keep or sell to Bill Waterson?
It is always fascinating to know who owns the club one supports.
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Andrew Shaw probably holds his shares and has simply quit the board. Geoff Goodwin has no interest in football and might possibly sell out to any reasonable offer. Carole Nash is probably similarly disinterested and approachable.
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I find this area quite interesting - particularly the added dimension that supporters play.
Shareholders own the club but pretty much get 1 opportunity a year to influence the running of the club at the AGM each year - where they elect directors to run the club on their behalf. If you want full control of this process you'd need influence over 51% of the voting shares - so 57,500 shares. The top 5 shareholders between them have just over this amount and so working together have full control. (Geoff G,Grahame, Andrew Shaw, L Rosenfield, I Foden - all as at the last return so movement since could have changed that).
Having a shareholding below 50% infers no automatic right to a seat on the board.
Assuming all 5 shareholders were willing to sell - they'd be free to name their price, but assuming the £5 a share that they were sold at for CSH fundraising you'd need £287k to get majority ownership and full control.
Directors (including the chairman) are then given office for a period of time to run the club.
I'd assume at club board meetings that decisions are made under a voting system, I assume each director has 1 vote, including the chairman (possibly having an additional casting vote if needed for a draw on a decision) - therefore decisions are made on a majority agreement basis.
Hence :-
If somebody were moderately well off, rather than skint like me, they could buy Geoff Goodwin out and become our new major shareholder.....then things just might change.
- That would only give you 13% of the shares - so a bigger vote at the AGM but not enough to change things alone !
In theory if somebody did have a couple of thousand pounds they could wrest control.......we will have to have a bucket collection at the Alfreton match....ha ha!
- That would have to be a pretty big bucket - but would need a lot more than a couple of thousand to wrest control !
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I find this area quite interesting - particularly the added dimension that supporters play.
Shareholders own the club but pretty much get 1 opportunity a year to influence the running of the club at the AGM each year - where they elect directors to run the club on their behalf. If you want full control of this process you'd need influence over 51% of the voting shares - so 57,500 shares. The top 5 shareholders between them have just over this amount and so working together have full control. (Geoff G,Grahame, Andrew Shaw, L Rosenfield, I Foden - all as at the last return so movement since could have changed that).
Having a shareholding below 50% infers no automatic right to a seat on the board.
Assuming all 5 shareholders were willing to sell - they'd be free to name their price, but assuming the £5 a share that they were sold at for CSH fundraising you'd need £287k to get majority ownership and full control.
Directors (including the chairman) are then given office for a period of time to run the club.
I'd assume at club board meetings that decisions are made under a voting system, I assume each director has 1 vote, including the chairman (possibly having an additional casting vote if needed for a draw on a decision) - therefore decisions are made on a majority agreement basis.
Hence :-
If somebody were moderately well off, rather than skint like me, they could buy Geoff Goodwin out and become our new major shareholder.....then things just might change.
- That would only give you 13% of the shares - so a bigger vote at the AGM but not enough to change things alone !
In theory if somebody did have a couple of thousand pounds they could wrest control.......we will have to have a bucket collection at the Alfreton match....ha ha!
- That would have to be a pretty big bucket - but would need a lot more than a couple of thousand to wrest control !
Thanks for setting it out like that. I'm useless with this kind of stuff so that's very informative.
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Thank you Beaker for your really informative post.
On the assumption that the present Chairman does not think he is culpable for the present mess and has no intention of either standing aside or dealing in an open manner with those that are supporters in order to build bridges, then a take over is the only other option.
We now know the mechanism, the approximate costs and now just need a white knight......like Man City found a few years ago.
Any sheikhs out there?
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Thank you Beaker for your really informative post.
On the assumption that the present Chairman does not think he is culpable for the present mess and has no intention of either standing aside or dealing in an open manner with those that are supporters in order to build bridges, then a take over is the only other option.
We now know the mechanism, the approximate costs and now just need a white knight......like Man City found a few years ago.
Any sheikhs out there?
I say two words to you:
1. John
2. Maunders
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Or another two words
1 Graeme
2. Rowley
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Or another two words
1 Graeme
2. Rowley
I will counter your two with two more:
1. Geoff
2. Goodwin
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I'll raise you three :
1. Gerry
2. F*****g
3. Herman
Though in fairness Maunders was clearly the trump suit.
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I'll raise you three :
1. Gerry
2. F*****g
3. Herman
Though in fairness Maunders was clearly the trump suit.
Odd character.
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I find this area quite interesting - particularly the added dimension that supporters play.
Shareholders own the club but pretty much get 1 opportunity a year to influence the running of the club at the AGM each year - where they elect directors to run the club on their behalf. If you want full control of this process you'd need influence over 51% of the voting shares - so 57,500 shares. The top 5 shareholders between them have just over this amount and so working together have full control. (Geoff G,Grahame, Andrew Shaw, L Rosenfield, I Foden - all as at the last return so movement since could have changed that).
Having a shareholding below 50% infers no automatic right to a seat on the board.
Assuming all 5 shareholders were willing to sell - they'd be free to name their price, but assuming the £5 a share that they were sold at for CSH fundraising you'd need £287k to get majority ownership and full control.
Directors (including the chairman) are then given office for a period of time to run the club.
I'd assume at club board meetings that decisions are made under a voting system, I assume each director has 1 vote, including the chairman (possibly having an additional casting vote if needed for a draw on a decision) - therefore decisions are made on a majority agreement basis.
Hence :-
If somebody were moderately well off, rather than skint like me, they could buy Geoff Goodwin out and become our new major shareholder.....then things just might change.
- That would only give you 13% of the shares - so a bigger vote at the AGM but not enough to change things alone !
In theory if somebody did have a couple of thousand pounds they could wrest control.......we will have to have a bucket collection at the Alfreton match....ha ha!
- That would have to be a pretty big bucket - but would need a lot more than a couple of thousand to wrest control !
Big assumption. That was when we were in the conference. Times have changed and so has the worth of the shares. Mind you in these circumstances my wife always hangs on to them until their value returns. ::)
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I do. I bought some of the shares when STAR were bullied in to selling off their holding.
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assuming the £5 a share that they were sold at for CSH fundraising
Big assumption. That was when we were in the conference. Times have changed and so has the worth of the shares. Mind you in these circumstances my wife always hangs on to them until their value returns. ::)
It has to be a big assumption - there is no open market price for Alty Shares - hence why I said each shareholder is free to name their price - it could be 10p a share - it could be £1000 a share.
In a normal business valuation would be easier - but its a football club !!
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I'll raise you three :
1. Gerry
2. F*****g
3. Herman
Though in fairness Maunders was clearly the trump suit.
gerry Herman must have been before my time but i did like Gerry Berman 😂
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my wife always hangs on to them until their value returns. ::)
Lucky you....what about the shares ?
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I assumed that the £5 share price was more of a fundraising scheme rather than a true attempt at valuing the shares.
Fans were being encouraged to donate money and they got a nominal amount of shares back.
As has been said the value is whatever the shareholders will take for them.
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The shares were sold off not only to raise money but to castrate the supporters trust which Geoff Goodwin was steadfastly opposed to. It was ultimately wound up, and now there is no formal supporters organisation to challenge the board at exactly the time when it could have had some clout.
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The shares were sold off not only to raise money but to castrate the supporters trust which Geoff Goodwin was steadfastly opposed to. It was ultimately wound up, and now there is no formal supporters organisation to challenge the board at exactly the time when it could have had some clout.
What's happened to the TASC relaunch?
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I assumed that the £5 share price was more of a fundraising scheme rather than a true attempt at valuing the shares.
Fans were being encouraged to donate money and they got a nominal amount of shares back.
As has been said the value is whatever the shareholders will take for them.
I bought a small parcel of shares many years ago for £5 just as a nice way to donate to the club. I have aways valued the shares at nil, because it is unlikely that I will ever get any sort of dividend in my life, other than the pleasure of owning part of the club (which is enough dividend for me). In those days, we had our problems but the fans were behind the board more or less...I think were bailing out the mistakes of a previous board. I know I won the shares, I get the accounts every year. I lost the certificate in multiple house moves over the years...but I know I still own a small pat of the club.
The problem with investing in a football club is that legal valuations in the normal sense do not apply. Its unlikely that a club like Alty will ever distribute dividends to justify a valuation of even £1 per share, never mind £5 a share.
Historically some people bought clubs like this as it is a money cleansing operation - large cash business with no way of knowing how many people really passed through the gates. This is great if you had a dirty drugs or prostitute business on the side..in these days of increasingly cashless societies it is harder to find such businesses...but I know of 2 of the better restaurants in Hale where the owners are reputed to be involved in drug dealings, so this still happens. Other reason was (and is) that football clubs are trophy assets satisfying people with large ego's. Another reason, and this doesn't apply to Alty, is the money one can skim when doing transfer deals, especially with overseas clubs. The final reason is a sense of giving back to the community and supporting your local team. Unfortunately the number of people in the 1st 3 categories outnumber the final category. Also, the people in the first 3 categories are usually willing to pay a lot more usually willing to pay more. Sadly those people are the least suitable to own and run football clubs. Alty is a little more complex because of the land issue...there will always exist a small possibility of winding up the club and building homes on the land.
So choose your number. I would mop up as many shares as possible at £1 each. But I don't have a particular ego or a drug habit/business. So I will probably be massively outbid if the cub comes on the market formally :)
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I'm sure the shareholding is published on the companies house website and was shared on this forum only a few months ago
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Spring...where have you been for the last 20 years???? ;D
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We all own a collective share in our hearts for the years and years of going home and away, that's what is currently wrong, this isnt tesco where you can just choose to go to asda instead