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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on April 15, 2007, 05:18:44 PM

Title: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on April 15, 2007, 05:18:44 PM
......have we not handicapped ourselves by not using the player loans system much this season?

By my reckoning, the only player that we have brought in on loan has been Chris Senior (and now he's injured!).

So, is it purely down to finances?
I know that Thomson and Bowler have proved to be two futile leeches on the club's budget....but could we have done something to bring in an extra player during the hectic months of March and April?

After all, some minor speculation could have proved to be an inspired investment if it were to contribute towards Conference survival and all the accompanying financial benefits that follow. 
 
I have heard it said that GH is not a fan of bringing in loan players.....but the fact remains that we are now struggling to fill the bench with able-bodied personnel.

What price an extra option now?

(Stands back to receive abuse....!)


Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: Timperley The Best on April 15, 2007, 06:04:00 PM
you have a point but we are capable of beating tamwoth and aldershot or at least getting 4 points which means safety , although i reckon 53 may.if we go down we desrve to.i personally think it may come to goal diff .come on vics on tues at stafford.a stafford win really puts pressure on.
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: Daycare Dan on April 15, 2007, 06:08:34 PM
A Loan signing would have been a good idea, but as you say it comes down to finances too.

I remember we were looking at a centre back from Chester, but they wanted us to pay the full £800 per week he was on. Even though they did not want him and were happy for him to sit in there reserves. (Can't remember his name)

As another point could we / should we have put more of our reserves on Conference forms? Deegan was with the squad yesterday, maybe someone like him coming off the bench may, just may have changed one game and got us a point when we lost etc?
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: Altysmiffy on April 15, 2007, 06:30:46 PM
......have we not handicapped ourselves by not using the player loans system much this season?

By my reckoning, the only player that we have brought in on loan has been Chris Senior (and now he's injured!).

So, is it purely down to finances?
I know that Thomson and Bowler have proved to be two futile leeches on the club's budget....but could we have done something to bring in an extra player during the hectic months of March and April?

After all, some minor speculation could have proved to be an inspired investment if it were to contribute towards Conference survival and all the accompanying financial benefits that follow. 
 
I have heard it said that GH is not a fan of bringing in loan players.....but the fact remains that we are now struggling to fill the bench with able-bodied personnel.

What price an extra option now?

(Stands back to receive abuse....!)

I agree!

Either GH has not wanted loanees (& I trust his judgement) or we simply have not been able to afford the players he wanted.

Lets not be frightened of risking reserves if we need to.
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: louise1925 on April 15, 2007, 06:46:58 PM
We've got enough to get 4 points from the last two games. The important question is, will Val be available for the Tammy game?
AltyBri
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: Daycare Dan on April 15, 2007, 07:46:02 PM
The important question is, will Val be available for the Tammy game?

I hope so!
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: gazwarrington on April 15, 2007, 08:05:29 PM
I'm sure I've said this before but I'm 100% sure that Gh and DS would have loved to have some quality loan signings in. Unfortunatly these do not grow on trees and with most clubs in financial mess you have to contribute towards wages, which we could not afford to do.

I am also defo NOT a fan of speculate to accumulate. Loan signings or spending money we haven't got on players would NOT have guaranteed a season any better. We have had\having a good season as far as I'm concerned. We have COMPETED at this level and that is some form of achievement as far as I'm concerned
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: Alex on April 15, 2007, 08:34:03 PM
in my opinion i would say we have had a good season this year. we have competed with sides that we're handing us 5-0 thrashings last year and got a very respectable result away to oxford (who at the time we're un beaten and we had a kinda reserve team out). i think that we are only 2 or 3 signings away from bieng a top mid table side in this league. but we carn't just throw money at any player and hope we have to trust GH to bring in player who will help the squad without damaging the club.
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on April 15, 2007, 08:38:48 PM
I'm sure I've said this before but I'm 100% sure that Gh and DS would have loved to have some quality loan signings in. Unfortunatly these do not grow on trees and with most clubs in financial mess you have to contribute towards wages, which we could not afford to do.

I am also defo NOT a fan of speculate to accumulate. Loan signings or spending money we haven't got on players would NOT have guaranteed a season any better. We have had\having a good season as far as I'm concerned. We have COMPETED at this level and that is some form of achievement as far as I'm concerned

Gary,

As stated in my original post, I am fully aware that some loan options are simply beyond our budget.

As regarding speculation, I am not advocating going down the road of irresponsible spending a la the Gerry Berman era but perhaps we could have just pushed out the boat a little to bring in one player when we realised just how many fixtures there were to fulfil in March?

Yes, another player would not have automatically guaranteed us some extra points.....but, at the same time, you can't guarantee or prove that one different player would NOT have contributed something on the pitch that may have gained us one or even three points.

As for me, we will only have had a good season IF/WHEN we retain our Conference status.   
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on April 15, 2007, 08:43:09 PM
in my opinion i would say we have had a good season this year.

We will only have had a good season if we avoid relegation!

but we carn't just throw money at any player and hope we have to trust GH to bring in player who will help the squad without damaging the club.

Do I hear the names Thomson and Bowler echoing around Moss Lane again?!

Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: Daycare Dan on April 15, 2007, 08:48:42 PM
Do I hear the names Thomson and Bowler echoing around Moss Lane again?!



Are GH and DS not allowed to make mistakes? If we don't sign players, we are not going to get anywhere are we!?
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: gazwarrington on April 15, 2007, 08:49:38 PM
Well they are your opinions, which is what the forum is all about  :)


at the same time, you can't guarantee or prove that one different player would NOT have contributed something on the pitch that may have gained us one or even three points.

I would rather have not spent the money and not took the chance.

As for me, we will only have had a good season IF/WHEN we retain our Conference status.
Well my opinion is based on what has been happening to too many clubs at our level. We have become debt free, have competed well and are in a better shape than probably 50% of the teams in this league. That is why I think we have had a good season. With football now I'm afraid its as just about what happens off the pitch as what happens on it.

Do I hear the names Thomson and Bowler echoing around Moss Lane again?!
And an excellent example of why we should not take chances on players that are unproven, or fat, or not wanting to work hard .... etc
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on April 15, 2007, 09:09:36 PM

Are GH and DS not allowed to make mistakes? If we don't sign players, we are not going to get anywhere are we!?

The problems with Thomson and Bowler arose not because we took a chance by signing them but as a result of them being offered one year contracts.
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: radcliffe alty on April 15, 2007, 09:09:49 PM
Quote
As regarding speculation, I am not advocating going down the road of irresponsible spending a la the Gerry Berman era but perhaps we could have just pushed out the boat a little to bring in one player when we realised just how many fixtures there were to fulfil in March?

That's what we did with your mate Andy Scott wasn't it?  ;)
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on April 15, 2007, 09:14:55 PM
Quote
As regarding speculation, I am not advocating going down the road of irresponsible spending a la the Gerry Berman era but perhaps we could have just pushed out the boat a little to bring in one player when we realised just how many fixtures there were to fulfil in March?

That's what we did with your mate Andy Scott wasn't it?  ;)

Andy Scott arrived in January, as I recall.

Oh, and I don't think that we so much "pushed the boat out" to sign him as maybe floated a rather leaky coracle!
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: radcliffe alty on April 15, 2007, 09:31:56 PM
He'll win you over, I know he will!   :D
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: Daycare Dan on April 15, 2007, 09:43:09 PM
The problems with Thomson and Bowler arose not because we took a chance by signing them but as a result of them being offered one year contracts.

Both were offered contracts as other clubs were also interesting in signing them to contracts.

We took a chance it did not work out, you move on and try again. What is good to see is we are not throwing contracts around like they are Christmas cards. Both players could have added something to the existing squad.

Sounds like GH can't win; he signs players that don't work out and he's wrong, he does not sign a player and he's not trying!
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on April 15, 2007, 10:07:53 PM

Sounds like GH can't win; he signs players that don't work out and he's wrong, he does not sign a player and he's not trying!

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I was not criticising the actual signing of Bowler and Thomson but rather the fact that we offered them contracts, which contradicts GH's previous statements about not going down this particular route.

Believe me, I have seen enough players come and go at Moss Lane to know that you can never guarantee that any signing of a player will prove to be successful!

Oh, and where in my posts did I state that GH was "not trying" to sign a player?


Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on April 15, 2007, 10:10:10 PM
He'll win you over, I know he will!   :D

If Andy Scott scores the winning goal (for Alty) at Tamworth next Saturday afternoon, I will personally petition Trafford Council to have a statue of him erected in front of the shops opposite Moss Lane!
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: Leighton_Alty on April 15, 2007, 10:13:10 PM
we might not be able to afford the wages for the players that GH wants to get or maybe he just doesn't want loanees
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on April 15, 2007, 10:14:37 PM
we might not be able to afford the wages for the players that GH wants to get or maybe he just doesn't want loanees

I'm sure I said that in my first post!
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: Amsterdam Alty on April 15, 2007, 10:55:19 PM
coracle

huh mint word
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: Jezza on April 16, 2007, 04:37:30 AM
Loan players are a risk and can cost more than signing someone who benefits the team more.

I'm sure if a decent left winger had come available on loan from conf North at £200 a week we'd have had him? So I assume nothing decent became available and the contract commitments of Bowler and thompson probably prevented a decent loan of a conf player at £400 aweek for a month or so?

Graham has used the loan system in the past to the extent when it comes to January our loan quota has been reached!!

I'd rather a youth team player came through the ranks..we could do with another Leiws.
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: Bob on April 16, 2007, 08:36:07 AM
It was probably down to money and if the club hasn't got it then it won't spend it - quite rightly too in the current climate.  Its easy to say that we should "push the boat out" or "speculate", but with who's money?
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: Ballers on April 16, 2007, 09:06:40 AM
Number of things.

We may see more contracts handed out to new signings if we stay up at this level. The players who have been here for a while know they will be looked after and treated professionally, the lads who come in were offered contracts as a show of good faith, bear in mind O'Neill and Bowler both left professional/fulltime football to come and play part time, a huge step. My understanding is that neither will be offered a contract next year. I think at conf level the players of the required standard we try to sign will either be pro, on good money or have a lot of clubs sniffing around them be it whether they are dropping down or stepping up from conf north.

Bowler and Thomson, I don't know. I agree it was reasonable to ggive them a contract , GH seemed to think he could get the best out of thomson, for whatever reason he couldn't. Move on. Bowler started off brilliantly but threw a paddy after being subbed in the friendly the City and never gave a toss thereafter.

What on earth posesses players like that, surely neither of them will get a good gig or a contract next season for anyone now. Bowler in particular could have made a name for himself but at 19/20 seems to be wasting his talent. Weird.

<<< The exit door's this way Thomson you T**t


Back to loan signings I think the level we're at now and the wages required, it's not like the old days where you could gamble on someone, do it now and you're doing it with a significant amount of money which we just can't do.

For what it's worth I know we have tried desperately to ssign players both permanently or on loan and been unable to. I think I'm ok in listing the names (only a couple are rumours) and it would've been a pretty decent squad all told so GH and DS have been tryin. - John Hardiker (RB), Matt Doughty (LB), Mark Tierney (LB), Danny Adams (LB), Graham Allen (CB), John Boardman (CB), Mark Roberts (RB/CB/CM), Jamie Tandy (LW), John Grant (CF), Dino Maamria (CF).

Prob the best example on that is Danny Adams, local lad, released by Hudds, GH desperate for him to stay, gets on well with him. As a solid left back and freeing up Warren for attacking duties, we'd probably be safe by now but he went to Morecambe for full time football, a good chance of getting back into the league and obviously a lot more money (nearly double I believe).

 :-\ :-\

Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on April 16, 2007, 02:30:47 PM
Number of things.
What on earth posesses players like that, surely neither of them will get a good gig or a contract next season for anyone now. Bowler in particular could have made a name for himself but at 19/20 seems to be wasting his talent. Weird.

In recent times, we do seem to have been cursed with underperforming left wingers.

I give you....

Ryan Hevicon
Steve Torpey
Blake Norton

....and now Justin Bowler.
Title: Re: This may be a controversial thought but......
Post by: Leon on April 16, 2007, 11:12:40 PM
Number of things.
What on earth posesses players like that, surely neither of them will get a good gig or a contract next season for anyone now. Bowler in particular could have made a name for himself but at 19/20 seems to be wasting his talent. Weird.

In recent times, we do seem to have been cursed with underperforming left wingers.

I give you....

Ryan Hevicon
Steve Torpey
Blake Norton

....and now Justin Bowler.


And James Olsen. And Stuart Wright....

Has there been a regular there since Kevin Ellison?