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[Jimmy Hill]

I've been thinking recently how we as football fans often think of things in quite mechanical ways. We argue that a certain player is more technically adept than another in a certain position and use this as evidence to suggest that the manager got their selection right/wrong. However, whilst the manager may be aware of the technical differences between certain players this is only issue for consideration; what they bring to the team in other areas is also important. In other words people and personalities matter; everyone has probably worked with people that, although proficient at their job are difficult to get on and work with. I'm sure we all realise now that a good example of this is the now obvious importance of Robbie Lawton; a man who is clearly delivers much more to the team than his his football ability alone.

Ecky said last week that he was suddenly realising just how important confidence is for a football team. I fully agree with him, but would like to extend this idea to the club as a whole and the role that emotion plays. When we first came back to the Conference there was a prevailing attitude that every point was precious and we would have to scrap and fight for everything if we were going to have a hope of staying up. I remember seeing the match report of our 0-2 victory over Aldershot in a frame in the sponsors lounge!

However, since then we have slowly established ourselves as a conference club. This was a good thing, but with it came a paradox. With our new found security a certain doggedness was lost, and there just seemed to be less emotion generally, possibly compounded by people realising that we have no chance of promotion. I'm sure many will have noticed a slight loss of atmosphere at games in the past season or so and this is perfectly understandable given how people perceived the situation. But if emotional factors do matter, just as they may matter for why an individual player might be selected (see Robbie Lawton) then there is every chance that they matter at the club level as a whole, and that vague concepts such as belief and confidence are important to a club's performance. The paradox is then revealed as soon as things start to slip, which they always can in sport. The very attitude that brought the mild success has gone and it's difficult to move on with the new attitude of mild expectation.

Heathcote's problem was that I'm not sure many people believed in him any more. People will often talk of managers losing the dressing room but it seems to make just as much sense to talk of a manager losing the fans. Our success over the past few seasons was based on an almost irrational unity amongst players, fans and manager. To get out of the rut we are in this unity needs to come back, that doggedness and fighting spirit that characterised our first few seasons. Ken Mckenna is hopefully someone that everyone can believe in and that will help restore the unity that served us so well.

PS I realise that real factors such as players and money are also very important. I'm just trying to emphasis the little discussed aspect of the role of emotion in football.

[SW]

Probably post of the week. Nothing much more to be added.

[TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe]

I've been thinking recently how we as football fans often think of things in quite mechanical ways. We argue that a certain player is more technically adept than another in a certain position and use this as evidence to suggest that the manager got their selection right/wrong. However, whilst the manager may be aware of the technical differences between certain players this is only issue for consideration; what they bring to the team in other areas is also important. In other words people and personalities matter; everyone has probably worked with people that, although proficient at their job are difficult to get on and work with. I'm sure we all realise now that a good example of this is the now obvious importance of Robbie Lawton; a man who is clearly delivers much more to the team than his his football ability alone.

Ecky said last week that he was suddenly realising just how important confidence is for a football team. I fully agree with him, but would like to extend this idea to the club as a whole and the role that emotion plays. When we first came back to the Conference there was a prevailing attitude that every point was precious and we would have to scrap and fight for everything if we were going to have a hope of staying up. I remember seeing the match report of our 0-2 victory over Aldershot in a frame in the sponsors lounge!

However, since then we have slowly established ourselves as a conference club. This was a good thing, but with it came a paradox. With our new found security a certain doggedness was lost, and there just seemed to be less emotion generally, possibly compounded by people realising that we have no chance of promotion. I'm sure many will have noticed a slight loss of atmosphere at games in the past season or so and this is perfectly understandable given how people perceived the situation. But if emotional factors do matter, just as they may matter for why an individual player might be selected (see Robbie Lawton) then there is every chance that they matter at the club level as a whole, and that vague concepts such as belief and confidence are important to a club's performance. The paradox is then revealed as soon as things start to slip, which they always can in sport. The very attitude that brought the mild success has gone and it's difficult to move on with the new attitude of mild expectation.

Heathcote's problem was that I'm not sure many people believed in him any more. People will often talk of managers losing the dressing room but it seems to make just as much sense to talk of a manager losing the fans. Our success over the past few seasons was based on an almost irrational unity amongst players, fans and manager. To get out of the rut we are in this unity needs to come back, that doggedness and fighting spirit that characterised our first few seasons. Ken Mckenna is hopefully someone that everyone can believe in and that will help restore the unity that served us so well.

PS I realise that real factors such as players and money are also very important. I'm just trying to emphasis the little discussed aspect of the role of emotion in football.

Jimmy,

Some salient points there.

Heathcote's recent unremittingly downbeat and negative performance at the recent Fans' Forum (or Black Thursday, as Ecky so aptly termed it) turned out to be a huge own goal on his part and, ultimately, a fatal blow to his credibility as Alty's manager.

There was no way back for him from that for me.

The best of luck to Ken McKenna in restoring belief and unity.
He deserves his chance.

[RocketDan]

There must be a fine balance struck when it comes to emotion. It could be argued that Heathcote showed too much emotion and that emotion should be kept under control to succeed. Another example could be Colin Little's penalty in his final game, it was obvious he was going to miss if he let the emotion of his last game get to him.  On the other hand, you can't have players with no passion who don't feel pain when they lose and are happy to swan around and pick up a pay cheque. In terms of desire, looking at our squad, only Stuart Coburn and Robbie Lawton have been around long enough to have that dogged spirit you mentioned, perhaps it is yet to rub of on other more talented players in the squad, who don't seem to be producing their best football at the moment.

The paradox is that; in order to progress you need to bring in more technically capable players, these players, however, lack ''a certain dogishness", which was the quality that got the team promoted to the conference in the first place.



On a completely different note something i have always wondered... Do fans influence football matches through chanting and generating an atmosphere?
I'd like to think so, but i somewhat doubt it. I'd like to think players (even at this level) are professional enough to block out the chanting and devote their entire attention to the pitch.

[Jezza]

On the last point, there are definetly points in games when the crowd senses their team is on the up, the noise and excitement builds....I believe this increases the team's confidence and they play even better and the adrenalin pumps...the opposition get nervous and start hitting wild balls out of play to jeers of derision from the crowd........you can just tell a goal is coming.

There are also times when the team starts badly, the crowd gets restless and you can just feel the frustration and nerves being contagious...then one good pass can lift the crowd which lifts the players....or one bad pass just sums it up and the day goes from bad to worse.

So yes, the crowd can have a big influence....good and bad.......just ask the players...

[Aussie Bob]

very good point ...my Aussie Rules clubs manager was sacked and when one his players was asked about it he said that you can only hear the same thing from the same person a certain number of times before it loses impact. Maybe thats whats happened with GH ? but giving him his due the length of time he was in the job and the number of players that did stay on is testament to the fact that he got a lot out what was dealt to him....

[markecky]

On a completely different note something i have always wondered... Do fans influence football matches through chanting and generating an atmosphere?
I'd like to think so, but i somewhat doubt it. I'd like to think players (even at this level) are professional enough to block out the chanting and devote their entire attention to the pitch.

Blimey, this thread is a bit intelligent but I'll still have a bash even though I only went to Green Lane.

I very much believe that atmosphere plays a small part in the outcome of games and players performances.  And in two ways.

If you get a  corner in the last minute and there is a big roar and people screaming for it to go in (forget Alty where it would be overhit or dollied up to the keeper who launches it and they counter and score, game over 1-3) it gives the home players a lift and put the away players on edge. If that corner was in silence I honestly believe it would be far easier to defend.

Players love to be loved.  They love to score goals and make people happy.  If you scored in a groujnd that had been silent all game you run off to the halfway line with your teammates.  If you score at the Golf Road and the lads have got behind you you run to them and there is a feeling of togetherness.

To me the atmosphere and bond between the players and fans at Alty plays a big part.

And on the other side, a negative atmosphere of booing and jeering can put players right off there game and lead to errors and goals.

So I believe that atmosphere plays a part and can be that extra 1% that could be the difference betwen winning and losing.

[ArmchairAlty]

I definitely think that the crowd/atmosphere can affect the outcome in various ways, be it geeing up the players to perform from set pieces, influencing the decisions of the ref and liner, or causing mistakes in the opposition.

How many times have you seen a player booked for seemingly nothing because the opposition fans have made a racket... far too often unfortunately.

The "12th man effect" is particularly relevant for instances like penaties etc... could be part of why the majority of pens in the Prem League are given to the home side?! I read somewhere that Feyenoord actually dedicated their number 12 shirt to the fans one season.

[distancetraveller]

I definitely think that the crowd/atmosphere can affect the outcome in various ways, be it geeing up the players to perform from set pieces, influencing the decisions of the ref and liner, or causing mistakes in the opposition.

How many times have you seen a player booked for seemingly nothing because the opposition fans have made a racket... far too often unfortunately.

The "12th man effect" is particularly relevant for instances like penaties etc... could be part of why the majority of pens in the Prem League are given to the home side?! I read somewhere that Feyenoord actually dedicated their number 12 shirt to the fans one season.

If you read the recent Mansfield Home programme you will notice that they do the same

[taxi Phil]

If anyone doubts that fans are important to the team out on the pitch, just remember how Robbie Lawton applauded us when he went off against Kidderminster the other day.

[Leon]

I think that, in relation to Jimmy's original post, the issue of hope is also important.

It's very hard for us as fans to sustain ourselves purely on the hope of avoiding relegation (rather than of actually winning anything) and maybe that's why a certain energy has been lacking at times of late. Obviously, it's also related to being clear of the relegation zone for much of the last two seasons but I think there's more to it. They say it's much harder for a team to retain a title than to win one. Well in terms of our ambitions, last season was pretty much a title-winning one and so perhaps we're suffering partly from trying to repeat an achievement rather than trying to reach for a new one. I think this is another reason why it was time for a change.

I had a long chat with my Dad about recent events and the one thing we both felt very strongly was that we'd love to see the team start to be more positive. Even if it's not the best tactical policy, in a funny way. Because my feeling is that what we fans really need now is to see a team genuinely trying to win every game they play, rather than only selected games. If we turn up to games with that sort of hope, that could be just the thing to re-energise the fans and the club as a whole.

[markecky]

I agree Leon, the issue of hope was key to all this for me.

Even five games in we knew we had done OK in parts, played some tough teams (and been poor at times).  However the mood on the forum was a positive one and bar the odd one or two voices people were pressing on with it.

Then came the fateful "My strikers aren't good enough" in the Evening News and to me that would flatten any player.

People tried to stay positive after that but then came Black Thursday and after that there was simply no way back.

[distancetraveller]

With regards to fans having an effect on players/teams... In the case of clubs like Alty i think the fans have quite a significant impact...  given the close proximity of fans to the pitch and the smaller crowds, when somebody shouts something either positive or negative then the chances that the person it is aimed at will most certainly here it..

I often shout things to players of both sides and you do get the odd comment or a V flicked back as a response from an opposition player which usually brings a smile to my face..

The times I get annoyed is when you shout something at a ref and he has that smug look on his face which is basically telling you that he heard the comment and whether or not it was right there is sweet FA you can do about it  ...

If you are in the bigger stadias such as OT or the Emirates etc then you will be lucky if the fkn guy sat next to you will hear it never mind the players....

[taxi Phil]

Repeat after me :

"The future's red and white, the future's Kenny".

And let's all get behind the lads with all the enthusiasm we can muster !

And THAT ladies and gents is emotion ! Now bring on the football !

[gazwarrington]

On a completely different note something i have always wondered... Do fans influence football matches through chanting and generating an atmosphere?
I'd like to think so, but i somewhat doubt it. I'd like to think players (even at this level) are professional enough to block out the chanting and devote their entire attention to the pitch.

Blimey, this thread is a bit intelligent but I'll still have a bash even though I only went to Green Lane.

I very much believe that atmosphere plays a small part in the outcome of games and players performances.  And in two ways.

If you get a  corner in the last minute and there is a big roar and people screaming for it to go in (forget Alty where it would be overhit or dollied up to the keeper who launches it and they counter and score, game over 1-3) it gives the home players a lift and put the away players on edge. If that corner was in silence I honestly believe it would be far easier to defend.

Players love to be loved.  They love to score goals and make people happy.  If you scored in a groujnd that had been silent all game you run off to the halfway line with your teammates.  If you score at the Golf Road and the lads have got behind you you run to them and there is a feeling of togetherness.

To me the atmosphere and bond between the players and fans at Alty plays a big part.

And on the other side, a negative atmosphere of booing and jeering can put players right off there game and lead to errors and goals.

So I believe that atmosphere plays a part and can be that extra 1% that could be the difference betwen winning and losing.

Have to agree that the fans do make a difference... Although when in the Unibond (all those years ago) I felt that apposing team players were more interested with 'shutting us up', then celebrating with their own fans (However many that may have been, 15 Accrington !!)