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[AltyTunnelSteward]

Thanks Casper

As I have said all along I don't think that it should have gone to court in fact I don't think that the case should ever have been initiated but that's my personal view and i appreciate that I'm probably and understandably in a minority, maybe a minority of one.

The thing which has concerned me enormously is that this judgement has been arrived at using still photographs and hence without contemporaneous video. Add in the fact that the 'expert' witness testimony came from someone who had never participated in Non League football and was not present at the fixture. You may argue that the defence 'expert' was a former Elite list Referee but he had at least experienced football at the appropriate level.

[Jacko]

yet more proof that sport and law dont mix!!! what a load of bxxxxxx

[bighairedmike]

Thanks Casper

As I have said all along I don't think that it should have gone to court in fact I don't think that the case should ever have been initiated but that's my personal view and i appreciate that I'm probably and understandably in a minority, maybe a minority of one.

The thing which has concerned me enormously is that this judgement has been arrived at using still photographs and hence without contemporaneous video. Add in the fact that the 'expert' witness testimony came from someone who had never participated in Non League football and was not present at the fixture. You may argue that the defence 'expert' was a former Elite list Referee but he had at least experienced football at the appropriate level.

Just taking that part alone you would have somebody as inadequate as Mo Matadar as the expert witness? A man that couldnt give a foul as blatant as this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-HiskViZko),  when he was 2 yards away at most just because he has been involved in non league football?

I can understand the not being there factor but how on earth can you come out with a statement saying that just because somebody hasn't been involved in one level of football they don't know the rules about the game.

That's almost as bad as saying that a broken leg in non league football is acceptable, whereas a broken leg in the premiership is not.

[Jezza]

I had orignally typed that it struck me that Ashton should have settled out of court but wasn't sure of the legalities of this....but from what casper tells us in his informative post they could have and it was down to their stubborness as well as Marcus' determination that legal costs spiralled...so if Marcus had lost should he have been made bankrupt as well as losing his career? presumably yes and this was the risk marcus took in pursuing his case as did ashton.....I assume the appeal cost Ashton more money that they knew they didn't have?

I wish people would stop saying this is a precedent coz it's not....clubs and leagues have just ignored the risk and hoped it wouldn't happen to them.....and how ashton thought they'd win with such precedents already set is anyone's guess...

We've been through the photo thing and just one look at it shows how reckless and late the tackle was....I'm all for video evidence but when I push this get told it wouldn't work undermines referees

Marcus was quite entitled to his rights to compensation...and how anyone can say a court case that was won should not have gone to court?...well, unless ashton had settled out of court that's ridiculous to say.

But I hope Ashton can survive and wish them well and hope that the leagues and clubs lower down the pyramid finally take action to protect themselves against what the ashton chairman himself described as a known risk.

Been trying to think how I'd feel if this was alty and I genuinely think I'd be angry with my club for not settling out of court and angry with the leagues for not doing what the conference has now done in ensuring adequate insurance is now in place....I'd also be very bitter about the amount of money sloshing around and my club going bump for £100k......ashton could go bump and then we hear about curzon getting a £50k community grant for training lesbians or something.....so good luck ashton.

[seasonticket]

ATS. You are not in a minority of one on this issue. I agree with you. It should not have gone to court in the first place.
I know it is hard for the player who's career in football is finished, but to be a little cynical, anyone taking part in any sport must know there is some risk involved and if you take the risk accept the consequences.
I was at that game and thought that the tackle was not good but not malicious. We see bad tackles all the time at this level and, fortunately there is mostly no long term damage.

[AltyTunnelSteward]

Thanks Casper

As I have said all along I don't think that it should have gone to court in fact I don't think that the case should ever have been initiated but that's my personal view and i appreciate that I'm probably and understandably in a minority, maybe a minority of one.

The thing which has concerned me enormously is that this judgement has been arrived at using still photographs and hence without contemporaneous video. Add in the fact that the 'expert' witness testimony came from someone who had never participated in Non League football and was not present at the fixture. You may argue that the defence 'expert' was a former Elite list Referee but he had at least experienced football at the appropriate level.

Just taking that part alone you would have somebody as inadequate as Mo Matadar as the expert witness? A man that couldnt give a foul as blatant as this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-HiskViZko),  when he was 2 yards away at most just because he has been involved in non league football?

I can understand the not being there factor but how on earth can you come out with a statement saying that just because somebody hasn't been involved in one level of football they don't know the rules about the game.

That's almost as bad as saying that a broken leg in non league football is acceptable, whereas a broken leg in the premiership is not.

What I was trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to get across is that Mr Mabbutt, quality player that he was and fully conversant with the Laws of the game as I assume him to be has little experience of the quality of player who 'graces' Non League Football.
A Premiership player who committed to a challenge like the one in question would indeed be acting irresponsibly but this wasn't a Premier League player with premier league ability, quality or judgement...if he did have he'd not have been playing for Ashton would he? The better quality player like those Mr Mabbutt is more familiar with would not have had to make a challenge like that.
How many times have we commented on the additional 'quality' of professionals and the extra time they seem to have? That's the difference and that's why I think that someone other than Mr Mabbutt may have been a better expert witness.
As for your comment about broken legs well that, I'm afraid is just ridiculous as no broken leg (or any other serious injury) is acceptable from Junior football to the world cup.

[blackpoolalty]

Thanks Casper

As I have said all along I don't think that it should have gone to court in fact I don't think that the case should ever have been initiated but that's my personal view and i appreciate that I'm probably and understandably in a minority, maybe a minority of one.

The thing which has concerned me enormously is that this judgement has been arrived at using still photographs and hence without contemporaneous video. Add in the fact that the 'expert' witness testimony came from someone who had never participated in Non League football and was not present at the fixture. You may argue that the defence 'expert' was a former Elite list Referee but he had at least experienced football at the appropriate level.

Just taking that part alone you would have somebody as inadequate as Mo Matadar as the expert witness? A man that couldnt give a foul as blatant as this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-HiskViZko),  when he was 2 yards away at most just because he has been involved in non league football?

I can understand the not being there factor but how on earth can you come out with a statement saying that just because somebody hasn't been involved in one level of football they don't know the rules about the game.

That's almost as bad as saying that a broken leg in non league football is acceptable, whereas a broken leg in the premiership is not.

What I was trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to get across is that Mr Mabbutt, quality player that he was and fully conversant with the Laws of the game as I assume him to be has little experience of the quality of player who 'graces' Non League Football.
A Premiership player who committed to a challenge like the one in question would indeed be acting irresponsibly but this wasn't a Premier League player with premier league ability, quality or judgement...if he did have he'd not have been playing for Ashton would he? The better quality player like those Mr Mabbutt is more familiar with would not have had to make a challenge like that.
How many times have we commented on the additional 'quality' of professionals and the extra time they seem to have? That's the difference and that's why I think that someone other than Mr Mabbutt may have been a better expert witness.
As for your comment about broken legs well that, I'm afraid is just ridiculous as no broken leg (or any other serious injury) is acceptable from Junior football to the world cup.

I understand what your saying and actually agree. Maybe a seasoned pro who played a decent career in non league football would have been a more credible expert....

[casper]

What I was trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to get across is that Mr Mabbutt, quality player that he was and fully conversant with the Laws of the game as I assume him to be has little experience of the quality of player who 'graces' Non League Football.
A Premiership player who committed to a challenge like the one in question would indeed be acting irresponsibly but this wasn't a Premier League player with premier league ability, quality or judgement...if he did have he'd not have been playing for Ashton would he? The better quality player like those Mr Mabbutt is more familiar with would not have had to make a challenge like that.
How many times have we commented on the additional 'quality' of professionals and the extra time they seem to have? That's the difference and that's why I think that someone other than Mr Mabbutt may have been a better expert witness.
As for your comment about broken legs well that, I'm afraid is just ridiculous as no broken leg (or any other serious injury) is acceptable from Junior football to the world cup.

From some of the reporting’s of the case, the judge and witnesses accepted that a player from a lower league may not have the same abilities as those higher up the pyramid. Certainly Colin little has a better reading of the game than compared to titus bramble. However, at the time of the case Mabbutt was very high up in the FA's disciplinary department - being one of those people handing out retrospective bans, looking at appeals, and giving feedback to referees for the football league, premiersh*te, fa cup and fa trophy. So, he may in fact be the better qualified to answer a question on a situation rather than a person more accustomed to making an instant decision. The case itself is complex, there is set formula that courts have, but they do take into account all of what you have said, including; weather, atmosphere, player's ability, score line, referee's report, other players and management testimony.

I have many sympathies for Ashton, yet they have spent thousands on a case that they realistically couldn’t win. I sincerely hope this episode hasn’t led to the end of a local football club.