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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Mick on May 28, 2010, 12:57:56 PM
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It appears that Ashton have lost their legal appeal to turn over the ruling against them in the Ashton vs Marcus case.............they don't have the means to pay up, so who knows what happens next
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They can get the money by selling Moyo-Modise...he must be worth close to 1 million surely?
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Should never even have gone to Court - ridiculous :'( :'( :'( :'(
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With the added legal costs I presume this will be the end for them.
A tackle ends a 100 year old club, its not right really.
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Heres hoping united and city to come the rescue with full strength preseason friendlies
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Their Chairman writes:-
"The appeal against the recent Marcus Hallows court ruling has been rejected, leaving Manchester's oldest semi-pro football club in a dire position.
As a club, Ashton United FC have been dealt a significant blow to their future by the recent court ruling, which rejected their appeal in the case brought by Mr Hallows.
At the outset of proceedings Ashton United clearly demonstrated that it did not have the financial means to meet any substantial claim from either its own funds or assets, yet Mr Hallows and his legal team continued with their legal action, aware that a successful outcome on their part would be liable to have serious implications for the club’s future. A dangerous precedent may have been set by this verdict, which Ashton United always felt was deeply flawed and everyone at Hurst Cross urges fellow clubs who may, one day, find themselves in a similar situation to take every possible action to protect their assets against potential claims in the future. Players cannot play without clubs to play for.
It is not difficult to determine who the real winners are here; Mr. Hallows will never get back the career he lost through an unfortunate accident on the field of play, the verdict will not help protect other players from accidental injury in similar circumstances, yet the cost of the legal fees due to both parties are much greater than any award granted to Mr Hallows by the court.
Further appeals would be financially unviable and unlikely to succeed so, over the next few days, officials at Ashton United will be consulting with their solicitors, insolvency advisors, the Northern Premier League, the Manchester F.A. and Tameside Council about the club’s position, with a determination to carry on the club’s proud 132 year history if at all possible. Due to the urgency of this matter it is unlikely that any further official statements will be forthcoming in the immediate future.
I wish to place on record my thanks to my fellow directors, the officials, players and supporters at our club who have helped fight this action from within, the officials from the Northern Premier League for their assistance during this whole affair and also to our fellow clubs, from all levels of the game, whose officials, supporters and players have so generously backed our cause."
David Aspinall, Chairman, Ashton United FC.
Sad stuff.
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With all the money floating around in the game you'd have to hope someone somewhere will stump up this cash....
It is not right that a tackle should end a 100yr old club....but neither should it end a player's career at that players considerable cost either.
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Good luck to Ashton United, I hope they can get through this.
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This all sets an awkward precedent.
Some sort of insurance, through the FA or PFA, needs to be sorted for such claims.
I have heard that Marcus will be doing one of those ads on TV - "I was running into the penalty box and about to score when a defender broke my leg in 2 places. I called Injury Lawyers Direct.........."
I jest, but this really could set problems for the future.
Obviously, I wish Marcus well, but I hope Ashton can get through this - will one of the big Prem clubs help them?
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How much was Hallows awarded ?
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How much was Hallows awarded ?
£32,000
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I'm sorry but if 32K is the figure then what's the drama? People have to find sums like that when extensions on their house go wrong. If Ashton can't raise that then they sail too close to the wind.
I'm not saying it's right, but for Marcus its a years money no more, for any business if their insurance is that poor well no sympathy. My life is insured for more as is my house.
I expected the figure to be at least 100,000, if its as stated, well ?
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I'm sorry but if 32K is the figure then what's the drama? People have to find sums like that when extensions on their house go wrong. If Ashton can't raise that then they sail too close to the wind.
I'm not saying it's right, but for Marcus its a years money no more, for any business if their insurance is that poor well no sympathy. My life is insured for more as is my house.
I expected the figure to be at least 100,000, if its as stated, well ?
That's just the amount Hallows was awarded though, I was under the impression the court costs were massive.
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Could be wrong but I think they ran to six figures
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Right here’s a bit of the legal stuff.
I still haven’t been able to track down a copy of either judgment or reasons. I will strive to see what the courts reasons are for holding Ashton liable in due course. All I can give is a general insight to the case law, and possible arguments that would arise.
Ashton could have settled out of court, and saved a heck of a load of money. They decided, rather strangely, to attempt a defence of the case. As for those who said it shouldn’t have gone to court, you need to understand just how the courts work. For sports, especially football, the courts recognise an implied risk within sports, and alter specific requirements which make it harder for successful claims to be made. On the whole, the courts could quite easily award sums for long-term injuries caused by reckless challenges, however, all the cases I have seen involve footballers who have had their injury careers cut short by injury’s sustained during a match. This seems to show the courts are fully aware of the financial implications of an award has upon the club. The courts also have various precedents to follow. They cannot chop and change decisions just because a club may not be able to afford to pay an award, or that they are from the lower echelons of non-league football. There is a clear line of what needs to be proved, as I said before, Mr Hallows would need to prove that on the balance of probabilities that the challenge was reckless or negligent, and caused the injury. A photo, credible expert witness would require some quite significant evidence to refute.
Further, the compensation of £32,000 was agreed in advance, if Ashton lost, and this figure had not been agreed, the court would have awarded more (by taking into account the pain and suffering, loss of earnings as Alty player, loss of earnings as an elvis impersonator etc etc). In addition to this award, Mr Hallows solicitors can also claim an extra 100% of the award, as well as Ashton paying Mr Hallows legal costs, then they pay their own legal costs. The total looks to be around £100,000. Ashton could have settled prior to the court cases for less than £25,000. It was their calculated risk that the law didn’t apply to them, or any small club, because they hadn’t taken out sufficient insurance cover for away matches, and couldn’t be held responsible for their player’s actions, and thirdly, that small clubs couldn’t be expected to afford such a payout.
As a current law student, I can appreciate that some people may think Ashton have been treated unfairly, however with respect to previous case law, including many non-league and Sunday league cases, the courts are bound to follow previous decisions, unless there is a different viewpoint given by an Act of Parliament or House of Lords court case. As this is has not happened here, the only appeal Ashton would have had any chance of winning would be about the evidence supplied, and whether the challenge was worthy of such a payout. I’m not alone in thinking that at the time, the tackle was not deemed to be a foul. Yet the courts have decided, given the evidence, that the award would be fair, just and reasonable.
I would also refute any suggestion a precedent has been set by this case alone. I am mystified why Ashton had attempted to spend a lot of money on the defence of the proceedings, when any law student could tell them the current body of law would mean Hallows would win. I don’t see any avenue for not making Ashton liable.
As for insurance provisions, the PFA have a system for the football league, the conference have apparently, made the insurance cover mandatory. But further down the league pyramid, including Sunday league, clubs should cover themselves for all eventualities.
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Thanks Casper
As I have said all along I don't think that it should have gone to court in fact I don't think that the case should ever have been initiated but that's my personal view and i appreciate that I'm probably and understandably in a minority, maybe a minority of one.
The thing which has concerned me enormously is that this judgement has been arrived at using still photographs and hence without contemporaneous video. Add in the fact that the 'expert' witness testimony came from someone who had never participated in Non League football and was not present at the fixture. You may argue that the defence 'expert' was a former Elite list Referee but he had at least experienced football at the appropriate level.
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yet more proof that sport and law dont mix!!! what a load of bxxxxxx
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Thanks Casper
As I have said all along I don't think that it should have gone to court in fact I don't think that the case should ever have been initiated but that's my personal view and i appreciate that I'm probably and understandably in a minority, maybe a minority of one.
The thing which has concerned me enormously is that this judgement has been arrived at using still photographs and hence without contemporaneous video. Add in the fact that the 'expert' witness testimony came from someone who had never participated in Non League football and was not present at the fixture. You may argue that the defence 'expert' was a former Elite list Referee but he had at least experienced football at the appropriate level.
Just taking that part alone you would have somebody as inadequate as Mo Matadar as the expert witness? A man that couldnt give a foul as blatant as this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-HiskViZko), when he was 2 yards away at most just because he has been involved in non league football?
I can understand the not being there factor but how on earth can you come out with a statement saying that just because somebody hasn't been involved in one level of football they don't know the rules about the game.
That's almost as bad as saying that a broken leg in non league football is acceptable, whereas a broken leg in the premiership is not.
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I had orignally typed that it struck me that Ashton should have settled out of court but wasn't sure of the legalities of this....but from what casper tells us in his informative post they could have and it was down to their stubborness as well as Marcus' determination that legal costs spiralled...so if Marcus had lost should he have been made bankrupt as well as losing his career? presumably yes and this was the risk marcus took in pursuing his case as did ashton.....I assume the appeal cost Ashton more money that they knew they didn't have?
I wish people would stop saying this is a precedent coz it's not....clubs and leagues have just ignored the risk and hoped it wouldn't happen to them.....and how ashton thought they'd win with such precedents already set is anyone's guess...
We've been through the photo thing and just one look at it shows how reckless and late the tackle was....I'm all for video evidence but when I push this get told it wouldn't work undermines referees
Marcus was quite entitled to his rights to compensation...and how anyone can say a court case that was won should not have gone to court?...well, unless ashton had settled out of court that's ridiculous to say.
But I hope Ashton can survive and wish them well and hope that the leagues and clubs lower down the pyramid finally take action to protect themselves against what the ashton chairman himself described as a known risk.
Been trying to think how I'd feel if this was alty and I genuinely think I'd be angry with my club for not settling out of court and angry with the leagues for not doing what the conference has now done in ensuring adequate insurance is now in place....I'd also be very bitter about the amount of money sloshing around and my club going bump for £100k......ashton could go bump and then we hear about curzon getting a £50k community grant for training lesbians or something.....so good luck ashton.
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ATS. You are not in a minority of one on this issue. I agree with you. It should not have gone to court in the first place.
I know it is hard for the player who's career in football is finished, but to be a little cynical, anyone taking part in any sport must know there is some risk involved and if you take the risk accept the consequences.
I was at that game and thought that the tackle was not good but not malicious. We see bad tackles all the time at this level and, fortunately there is mostly no long term damage.
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Thanks Casper
As I have said all along I don't think that it should have gone to court in fact I don't think that the case should ever have been initiated but that's my personal view and i appreciate that I'm probably and understandably in a minority, maybe a minority of one.
The thing which has concerned me enormously is that this judgement has been arrived at using still photographs and hence without contemporaneous video. Add in the fact that the 'expert' witness testimony came from someone who had never participated in Non League football and was not present at the fixture. You may argue that the defence 'expert' was a former Elite list Referee but he had at least experienced football at the appropriate level.
Just taking that part alone you would have somebody as inadequate as Mo Matadar as the expert witness? A man that couldnt give a foul as blatant as this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-HiskViZko), when he was 2 yards away at most just because he has been involved in non league football?
I can understand the not being there factor but how on earth can you come out with a statement saying that just because somebody hasn't been involved in one level of football they don't know the rules about the game.
That's almost as bad as saying that a broken leg in non league football is acceptable, whereas a broken leg in the premiership is not.
What I was trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to get across is that Mr Mabbutt, quality player that he was and fully conversant with the Laws of the game as I assume him to be has little experience of the quality of player who 'graces' Non League Football.
A Premiership player who committed to a challenge like the one in question would indeed be acting irresponsibly but this wasn't a Premier League player with premier league ability, quality or judgement...if he did have he'd not have been playing for Ashton would he? The better quality player like those Mr Mabbutt is more familiar with would not have had to make a challenge like that.
How many times have we commented on the additional 'quality' of professionals and the extra time they seem to have? That's the difference and that's why I think that someone other than Mr Mabbutt may have been a better expert witness.
As for your comment about broken legs well that, I'm afraid is just ridiculous as no broken leg (or any other serious injury) is acceptable from Junior football to the world cup.
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Thanks Casper
As I have said all along I don't think that it should have gone to court in fact I don't think that the case should ever have been initiated but that's my personal view and i appreciate that I'm probably and understandably in a minority, maybe a minority of one.
The thing which has concerned me enormously is that this judgement has been arrived at using still photographs and hence without contemporaneous video. Add in the fact that the 'expert' witness testimony came from someone who had never participated in Non League football and was not present at the fixture. You may argue that the defence 'expert' was a former Elite list Referee but he had at least experienced football at the appropriate level.
Just taking that part alone you would have somebody as inadequate as Mo Matadar as the expert witness? A man that couldnt give a foul as blatant as this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-HiskViZko), when he was 2 yards away at most just because he has been involved in non league football?
I can understand the not being there factor but how on earth can you come out with a statement saying that just because somebody hasn't been involved in one level of football they don't know the rules about the game.
That's almost as bad as saying that a broken leg in non league football is acceptable, whereas a broken leg in the premiership is not.
What I was trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to get across is that Mr Mabbutt, quality player that he was and fully conversant with the Laws of the game as I assume him to be has little experience of the quality of player who 'graces' Non League Football.
A Premiership player who committed to a challenge like the one in question would indeed be acting irresponsibly but this wasn't a Premier League player with premier league ability, quality or judgement...if he did have he'd not have been playing for Ashton would he? The better quality player like those Mr Mabbutt is more familiar with would not have had to make a challenge like that.
How many times have we commented on the additional 'quality' of professionals and the extra time they seem to have? That's the difference and that's why I think that someone other than Mr Mabbutt may have been a better expert witness.
As for your comment about broken legs well that, I'm afraid is just ridiculous as no broken leg (or any other serious injury) is acceptable from Junior football to the world cup.
I understand what your saying and actually agree. Maybe a seasoned pro who played a decent career in non league football would have been a more credible expert....
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What I was trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to get across is that Mr Mabbutt, quality player that he was and fully conversant with the Laws of the game as I assume him to be has little experience of the quality of player who 'graces' Non League Football.
A Premiership player who committed to a challenge like the one in question would indeed be acting irresponsibly but this wasn't a Premier League player with premier league ability, quality or judgement...if he did have he'd not have been playing for Ashton would he? The better quality player like those Mr Mabbutt is more familiar with would not have had to make a challenge like that.
How many times have we commented on the additional 'quality' of professionals and the extra time they seem to have? That's the difference and that's why I think that someone other than Mr Mabbutt may have been a better expert witness.
As for your comment about broken legs well that, I'm afraid is just ridiculous as no broken leg (or any other serious injury) is acceptable from Junior football to the world cup.
From some of the reporting’s of the case, the judge and witnesses accepted that a player from a lower league may not have the same abilities as those higher up the pyramid. Certainly Colin little has a better reading of the game than compared to titus bramble. However, at the time of the case Mabbutt was very high up in the FA's disciplinary department - being one of those people handing out retrospective bans, looking at appeals, and giving feedback to referees for the football league, premiersh*te, fa cup and fa trophy. So, he may in fact be the better qualified to answer a question on a situation rather than a person more accustomed to making an instant decision. The case itself is complex, there is set formula that courts have, but they do take into account all of what you have said, including; weather, atmosphere, player's ability, score line, referee's report, other players and management testimony.
I have many sympathies for Ashton, yet they have spent thousands on a case that they realistically couldn’t win. I sincerely hope this episode hasn’t led to the end of a local football club.