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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Hugh on March 28, 2023, 10:20:28 PM
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Sorry to put a dampener on things, but the issue of the segregation fence needs addressing. To be clear, this is not an opinion. This is a statement of fact. There is a hole in the fence about head height (through which I got hit after the Notts opener) and another hole at foot height. On the pop side, about two thirds of the way towards the "Chequers" End in front of the back crush barrier (where I was pinned in by the crowd at the time of the attack, stood in my usual spot). I realise the young lads (who I don't know) were winding up the Notts supporters, but I don't see why I should become a punchbag for doing no different to what ordinary football supporters do at games.
I feel I must also point out that, not for the first time this season, stewards were not on hand when it mattered, and where any reasonable person could see they might be needed. I strongly suggest that in future they concentrate on their core responsibility of keeping people safe rather than making stuff up about season ticket holders who happen to be in the vicinity because they (the stewards) were not on hand to see what happened. It's no good reacting after the event (though better than nothing I suppose) and shows how urgently we need people who understand football and know the club.
I suggest it urgently needs sorting for the FC Halifax game, given the magnitude of the game and past events (those "sheikhs" that time for a start). Let's get on top of it before something worse happens, we should always be trying to improve.
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Sorry to hear off your experience this evening. With the growth of home crowds at Moss Lane, I guess that comes with a price of those in a minority who wish to spoil it for the majority.
The whole Pop Side needs pulling down ASAP, the ground is holding back the club you could strongly argue.
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Sorry to hear Hugh.
Been said many times....The Popside is for home fans. Get fed up with not being able to use all of it and then having the view restricted by temporary fencing to the left of us whilst looking towards the Chequers corner flag
Worse still there is now more fencing to the right of the central section of the Popside which restricts the view to the Fanzone corner flag area of the pitch. No idea what this fence is for....Trafford MBC ?
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Apparently we now have a scoreboard. Since I stand on the pop side I only have other peoples' word on the subject, as it might as well be in Stamford Park for all the good it is to me.
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Apparently we now have a scoreboard. Since I stand on the pop side I only have other peoples' word on the subject, as it might as well be in Stamford Park for all the good it is to me.
It’s in the only place it could have gone.
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In fairness Phil, wherever you put it it will be unseen by a certain section of the ground.
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Apparently we now have a scoreboard. Since I stand on the pop side I only have other peoples' word on the subject, as it might as well be in Stamford Park for all the good it is to me.
It’s in the only place it could have gone.
Think this tongue in cheek comment supports / confirms the restricted view complaint, rather than being a dig at the new scoreboard
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Apparently we now have a scoreboard. Since I stand on the pop side I only have other peoples' word on the subject, as it might as well be in Stamford Park for all the good it is to me.
It’s in the only place it could have gone.
Think this tongue in cheek comment supports / confirms the restricted view complaint, rather than being a dig at the new scoreboard
Ah - whoosh! Apologies if so.
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Hugh, if you haven't already done so I suggest you contact the club in respect of the failure of paid stewards to do their job. As other people have said it needs addressing before the game on Saturday.
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There must have been a mistake made somewhere because we’re planning on giving a bigger crowd less space on Saturday, so I can only assume that we’ve opened up that section for Notts County because of a big queue on the away gate, that in actuality was more than manageable within the away end itself.
I don’t profess to understand the nitty gritty of crowd control but would it not make more sense to keep that part of the ground neutral until 7:45pm, then assess the situation? The target should be to let home fans into that area of the ground once it has been confirmed that it isn’t required by visiting fans - not to shift them on to, again, roll out the red carpet for away supporters.
I watched the game from the main stand last night so I had a good vantage point to watch this all unfold. Home fans were in the final third pop side but were asked to vacate this part of the stand so that Notts County fans could move in. Huge mistake in my opinion.
Jordan Hulme suggested last Saturday’s atmosphere was flat on Radio Alty. We have the biggest game in a generation this weekend that we needed to see the lads off to. Massive own goal to stop our supporters from supporting again and we can’t put this one down to maximising revenue from a big away gate.
Very boring going over the same problem 2/3 times a season to be honest. We never learn.
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it wasnt a mistake. It was an abuse of power of Nigel wanting to remove Altrincham fans from that section to give Notts County more space, because in his wet dreams, Altrincham fans are confined to the top 1/3rd of the pop side.
The fact the same individual as our chief safety office went and game miliseconds from trying to headbut me is another abuse of power.
We had 638 away fans. The same total crowd we used to get, that hardcore wont be tbere in 5 years during the tough spells, neither will these new fans.
Your call, Bill. Get it right.
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The segregation fence doesn’t need fixing it needs removing, this week. The popular side looks like a scrap yard. Put away supporters in the away end. The sterile area near the scoreboard is just that a sterile
Area. We’ve no other big followings due this season. It’s time to remove all that crap (gantry aside) from that side of the ground it looks unsightly and blocks peoples lines of sight. This isn’t anyone’s fault, it’s just lack of infrastructure investment in the last few decades. A corrugated plastic Roof on the chequers end would be a temp fix to any complaints about being in the open. Maybe even as a stop gap. I would concentrate on
Getting that end of the ground sorted before anywhere else. Once it’s done there is no reason to
Give away fans any other part of the ground. A bit of reconfiguration of barriers and terracing and even some seats on the huge bit of waste land up at the back of the terrace and a corrugated plastic roof. You’ve got your 1000 terrace spaces, you’ve got your 200 seats, you’ve got your roof, now get on the away end and stay there
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The segregation fence doesn’t need fixing it needs removing, this week. The popular side looks like a scrap yard. Put away supporters in the away end. The sterile area near the scoreboard is just that a sterile
Area. We’ve no other big followings due this season. It’s time to remove all that crap (gantry aside) from that side of the ground it looks unsightly and blocks peoples lines of sight. This isn’t anyone’s fault, it’s just lack of infrastructure investment in the last few decades. A corrugated plastic Roof on the chequers end would be a temp fix to any complaints about being in the open. Maybe even as a stop gap. I would concentrate on
Getting that end of the ground sorted before anywhere else. Once it’s done there is no reason to
Give away fans any other part of the ground. A bit of reconfiguration of barriers and terracing and even some seats on the huge bit of waste land up at the back of the terrace and a corrugated plastic roof. You’ve got your 1000 terrace spaces, you’ve got your 200 seats, you’ve got your roof, now get on the away end and stay there
You sh*t house. It was exactly someones decision to remove Altrincham fans from a section they'd be given access to, and then give acccess to County, removing the segregation zone.
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My point is the sterile area at the scoreboard IS the segregation. Read my post again it says away supporters should NOT be in the popular side period.
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My point is the sterile area at the scoreboard IS the segregation. Read my post again it says away supporters should NOT be in the popular side period.
You said this isnt anyones fault?
No other club worries about away fans as much as us.
Torquay - no toilets or food.
Maidstone - no away hot food.
Wrexham - cap every club
York - messed our stand around.
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if they keep leaving that useless fencing protruding along the pop side then the club should have to consider selling tickets with a restricted view at a discounted price. It looks cheap, it isn’t fit for purpose and like others say we pander to away fans a bit too much.. Most away fans know what they are getting when they visit Moss Lane, as do our fans when they travel to away games.
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The ground needs urgently replacing
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As a fan who removed from the annexed pop area i felt sullied.
I did assume that they must have brought 1000+ and needed the space, as they didn't it was a piss poor decision
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As a fan who removed from the annexed pop area i felt sullied.
I did assume that they must have brought 1000+ and needed the space, as they didn't it was a piss poor decision
The club do not care about fans who stuck by them in the Evo Stik
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I'm just checking. On Saturday the Halifax 900 and odd standing fans will be housed entirely on the scoreboard unroofed end. As i look from the Golf Road End i won't see any Halifax fans to the left of the scoreboard will I? Honest? The scoreboard terrace will be a sterile area and home fans who hold tickets for the pop side will terminate at the end of the covered stand before the scoreboard. I do feel I'm stating the obvious but you never know. Heaven forbid if it starts raining. Perhaps the home support could leave the stadium and allow travelling support to seek shelter? For the benefit of the Safety Officer and stewards that was said in jest. Don't consider it an option please.
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Hope you're correct anyway!
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As a fan who removed from the annexed pop area i felt sullied.
I did assume that they must have brought 1000+ and needed the space, as they didn't it was a piss poor decision
The club do not care about fans who stuck by them in the Evo Stik
Stuck and Evo Stik. See what you did there.
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Let's hope that there's some accountability for that capricious and short-sighted decision last evening.
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As a fan who removed from the annexed pop area i felt sullied.
I did assume that they must have brought 1000+ and needed the space, as they didn't it was a piss poor decision
The club do not care about fans who stuck by them in the Evo Stik
Stuck and Evo Stik. See what you did there.
If you saw it, I didnt 😂
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I'm just checking. On Saturday the Halifax 900 and odd standing fans will be housed entirely on the scoreboard unroofed end. As i look from the Golf Road End i won't see any Halifax fans to the left of the scoreboard will I? Honest? The scoreboard terrace will be a sterile area and home fans who hold tickets for the pop side will terminate at the end of the covered stand before the scoreboard. I do feel I'm stating the obvious but you never know. Heaven forbid if it starts raining. Perhaps the home support could leave the stadium and allow travelling support to seek shelter? For the benefit of the Safety Officer and stewards that was said in jest. Don't consider it an option please.
I often wonder what would have happened if we'd been playing Chester instead of Kidderminster that time it started pelting hailstones the size of golf balls!
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Hugh, if you haven't already done so I suggest you contact the club in respect of the failure of paid stewards to do their job. As other people have said it needs addressing before the game on Saturday.
To clarify, I remained in the vicinity until second half stoppage time to try and sort this. I spoke to several stewards and I think it is fair to say they know where I stand on this and would hope that this issue will be addressed. If there is a repeat, I will of course look out for Bill Waterson (who I know reads these pages) and tell him there is an issue and advise him to address it. If these stewards can't perform the basic functions one assumes they are there for, we should try and get some who can, no matter the cost.
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Shocking to hear Hugh.
Even more shocking this is still an issue.
I couldn't give a f**k how happy the away fans are in the rain. It's quieter without a roof and it's our home to make noise in. If we want to be nice give them the family stand and when it's sold out they know the situation.
Not to mention the Chequers is the best terrace in the ground for watching games.
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Accrington are league one and havent got a roof in the away end , there are others , Stockport ?pop side should be the oprriority imo.
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Hugh, if you haven't already done so I suggest you contact the club in respect of the failure of paid stewards to do their job. As other people have said it needs addressing before the game on Saturday.
To clarify, I remained in the vicinity until second half stoppage time to try and sort this. I spoke to several stewards and I think it is fair to say they know where I stand on this and would hope that this issue will be addressed. If there is a repeat, I will of course look out for Bill Waterson (who I know reads these pages) and tell him there is an issue and advise him to address it. If these stewards can't perform the basic functions one assumes they are there for, we should try and get some who can, no matter the cost.
I have contacted Bill and the club today to make a formal complaint.
Especially in light the criticism was removed from a fan Facebook page this morning.
I've made complaints to Lawrence Looney, whose reaction was to remove me from a WhatsApp chat related to voluntary work when a complaint was raised about stewards
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Hugh, if you haven't already done so I suggest you contact the club in respect of the failure of paid stewards to do their job. As other people have said it needs addressing before the game on Saturday.
To clarify, I remained in the vicinity until second half stoppage time to try and sort this. I spoke to several stewards and I think it is fair to say they know where I stand on this and would hope that this issue will be addressed. If there is a repeat, I will of course look out for Bill Waterson (who I know reads these pages) and tell him there is an issue and advise him to address it. If these stewards can't perform the basic functions one assumes they are there for, we should try and get some who can, no matter the cost.
I have contacted Bill and the club today to make a formal complaint.
Especially in light the criticism was removed from a fan Facebook page this morning.
I've made complaints to Lawrence Looney, whose reaction was to remove me from a WhatsApp chat related to voluntary work when a complaint was raised about stewards
very poor that the fans (customers) are being censored . It feels like the club wants to be above constructive criticism
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To be blunt about it, I’m not sure that some of stewards that the the club hire for games would be up to stewarding if things got really tetchy.
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Hugh, if you haven't already done so I suggest you contact the club in respect of the failure of paid stewards to do their job. As other people have said it needs addressing before the game on Saturday.
To clarify, I remained in the vicinity until second half stoppage time to try and sort this. I spoke to several stewards and I think it is fair to say they know where I stand on this and would hope that this issue will be addressed. If there is a repeat, I will of course look out for Bill Waterson (who I know reads these pages) and tell him there is an issue and advise him to address it. If these stewards can't perform the basic functions one assumes they are there for, we should try and get some who can, no matter the cost.
I have contacted Bill and the club today to make a formal complaint.
Especially in light the criticism was removed from a fan Facebook page this morning.
I've made complaints to Lawrence Looney, whose reaction was to remove me from a WhatsApp chat related to voluntary work when a complaint was raised about stewards
very poor that the fans (customers) are being censored . It feels like the club wants to be above constructive criticism
If the club doesn’t like constructive criticism, then maybe it would like to tell us if they have any plans in the near future to construct a new popular side stand.
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The club will write to me within 7-10 days of my complaint. Plenty of time for sweet FA to be done.
I'm most disappointed in Bill Waterson given how open his shock was about the stand was meant to be Altrinchams.
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To be blunt about it, I’m not sure that some of stewards that the the club hire for games would be up to stewarding if things got really tetchy.
I think we already know this from previous issues. But you put one toe inside the home yellow hatched area.....
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It’s a poor do from the club & I think they know they have erred & before next season a proper policy needs putting in place. Assuming the current top two go up then only Oldham & maybe Rochdale/Chesterfield will need more then 956 away tickets next season. Everyone else we get the full length of the Pop Side no ifs or buts.
I agree with Hughesy though that the solution & opening up much needed wider ground improvements is the away end. A roof & ability to sell beer to away fans & I think a lot of the stresses we see with away followings goes away. It’s not the current boards fault that there’s been no substantial improvement to the spectating facilities in 25 years but on their watch with the increases crowds it’s come to a head.
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It’s a poor do from the club & I think they know they have erred & before next season a proper policy needs putting in place. Assuming the current top two go up then only Oldham & maybe Rochdale/Chesterfield will need more then 956 away tickets next season. Everyone else we get the full length of the Pop Side no ifs or buts.
I agree with Hughesy though that the solution & opening up much needed wider ground improvements is the away end. A roof & ability to sell beer to away fans & I think a lot of the stresses we see with away followings goes away. It’s not the current boards fault that there’s been no substantial improvement to the spectating facilities in 25 years but on their watch with the increases crowds it’s come to a head.
We're a fairly forgiving fan base. Own up, hold their hands up and put a plan in place.
They put fans in danger by removing a sterile area, to make away fans more comfortable. They had a sterile area.
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The big issue for me is that home fans don't know what to expect from their own ground on any given match day. Where can, and can't we go? And why have decisions been taken? We're all adults, just tell us what decisions have been made and why. That's why the comms around this Saturday's game have been excellent so far.
But not every game is as big as this Saturday, so it feels like we could do with a standardised approach that communicates what we're doing with the away fans on a game by game basis.
It may help if the club created 'Categories' for projected away followings, with different crowd management approaches outlined to ensure spectator safety?
Cat A for your huge away followings that may require more than the away end, Cat B for standard segregated away end and Cat C for the more relaxed Tuesday night games when an Eastleigh-type bring 15.
Those categories and their respective descriptions could be described on the website and say, for example, we are hosting Eastleigh on a Tuesday night we could simply insert a reminder that 'Tomorrow night's match has been specified as a Category C away following and therefore..." into the match preview.
Fans know where they stand (literally) and arrive at Moss Lane knowing what to expect.
We're talking about an issue here that goes back years and we seem to be continually getting it wrong, when it seems quite simple to solve.
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Spot on AF
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AF for PM
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Big issue for me is a simple statement
Not that fussed where I stand, but dont want to be guessing on what is happening when play is in Popside corner flag areas
Would normally stand on hoardings...even if rain....but with a bigger following it is packed with kids etc and due to serious dangers of standing two deep identified by TBC...have to move back onto terrace
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AF for PM
He's good at U-turns
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Much needed and emotive thread this . I applaud all the fans concerns , Hash , Hugh , Andrew and the rest really do speak up for us all and need to be listened to by the club and positive action taken . We all care about our Alty so much , it's how we are and always will be .
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The silence from the club is deafening. The moving of home fans needs to stop now.
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As it stands i think the club have more immediate pressing matters before the next huge crowd after Saturday.
I wholeheartedly agree it needs addressing
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For me, it's one that can wait to be reviewed in the summer. I don't foresee any big away attendances after this weekend. It needs the communication, safety and match day areas of the club all pulling in the same direction and that's not a ship you can turn in a few days.
It also highlights the need for a supporters' group through which these concerns can be formally raised, rather than us all just having a moan on here and hoping it gets acknowledged by the club. TASC fizzled out towards the end of the Rowley chairmanship and hasn't been picked up since. It's probably time this was looked at again, ideally independent from the club, but officially club-recognised and engaged with by a member(s) of the board.
I doubt there would be a list of suitors to organise such a thing, though.
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Well said Andrew. There are still a few of us on here who were involved with SAFE and can vouch for the effort involved (while acknowledging that circumstances then were very different to now).
There’s a fine line between independence of the club and engagement with the club but I suspect there are sufficient motivated people to make it work.
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Well said Andrew. There are still a few of us on here who were involved with SAFE and can vouch for the effort involved (while acknowledging that circumstances then were very different to now).
There’s a fine line between independence of the club and engagement with the club but I suspect there are sufficient motivated people to make it work.
Well volunteered
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Well said Andrew. There are still a few of us on here who were involved with SAFE and can vouch for the effort involved (while acknowledging that circumstances then were very different to now).
There’s a fine line between independence of the club and engagement with the club but I suspect there are sufficient motivated people to make it work.
Well volunteered
Fanzine?
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TASC doesn't need to exisit, there's plenty of fans that can be canvassed, but the fact is the club have to stop treating fans as numbers for to avoid another truely toxic atmosphere on the next bad run
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Well said Andrew. There are still a few of us on here who were involved with SAFE and can vouch for the effort involved (while acknowledging that circumstances then were very different to now).
There’s a fine line between independence of the club and engagement with the club but I suspect there are sufficient motivated people to make it work.
Well volunteered
Fanzine?
The Reliant Robin circa 1990... Cushty
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Well said Andrew. There are still a few of us on here who were involved with SAFE and can vouch for the effort involved (while acknowledging that circumstances then were very different to now).
There’s a fine line between independence of the club and engagement with the club but I suspect there are sufficient motivated people to make it work.
Well volunteered
Fanzine?
I always thought that 'Netstretcher' was a good read.
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Some interesting views regarding a supporters group. It's worth remembering that we're now in an age where we have a strong official social media presence where views are surely read at the very least. You then have the curious status of this forum which is unofficial and probably used by only a small minority of our fanbase yet has the occasional posts from officials on it. Add it all up and the views of the fans can be easily seen, and across a broad church. Very different from 30 people in the Noel White Suite on a Monday night asking the chairman stuff.
I would certainly say though that there needs to be some properly coordinated link between the club and it's fanbase where concerns and suggestions are logged and acted upon. A supporter liaison officer could be effective.
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To be blunt about it, I’m not sure that some of stewards that the the club hire for games would be up to stewarding if things got really tetchy.
Stood behind us rather than in front.
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Also by having just a single fence as segregation on Tuesday, this actually put stewards more at risk from incidents with either set of fans. Unfortunately this season, especially when an away team brings a few fans, we are getting a few fans , who it would appear, be happy to join in if any trouble did occur. If you are going to have segregation in the Popular Side at least have a sterile area between the two sets of fans. Though before doing that, unlike on Tuesday, actually make sure the number of away fans requires that. Great suggestion from an earlier post about categorising games, that's surely all what is required.
I assume there will be a police presence on Saturday, but I hope the stewards are abit more clued up than they normally are, because there's obviously alot at stake, and whatever the result it could get a bit tetchy both inside and outside the ground.
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Well said Andrew. There are still a few of us on here who were involved with SAFE and can vouch for the effort involved (while acknowledging that circumstances then were very different to now).
There’s a fine line between independence of the club and engagement with the club but I suspect there are sufficient motivated people to make it work.
I'll tell you what would be ace is if we could convene "supporters' meetings" during matches as required. Many people have expressed concerns on here about Tuesday night and related issues, and I thank them for this (and thanks especially to Hashtag for raising the matter with the club) but the thing is, I dealt with the stewards pretty much single handed on Tuesday night for various reasons - I didn't ask anyone to help, people weren't aware, didn't have any plan of what could be done if they were, had other responsibilities etc.
The attitude of the stewards to me was along the lines of grow up, calm down, don't say that (although when queried, could not specify what I shouldn't say). If there were a group of us in a scheme, then if anyone had an issue on matchdays, they would raise a red flag (literal or otherwise), pass the word around, and other supporters in the scheme could come and back them up to try and sort the issue. Even if it was only half a dozen people, it might force stewards (or whoever) to take the matter seriously, especially if some of those people were recognised by the stewards as supporters' representatives. It would not require any administrative nonsense, and minimal organisation, just an informal agreement between supporters to back each other up. Any volunteers to tell me the catch(if any)?
I'll tell you another thing. It got even better on Tuesday. Just before I moved to the exit near the end of play on Tuesday, I wished Notts supporters on the pop side good luck for the rest of the season. I think they thought it was quite funny actually, but one of the stewards thought otherwise and shouted at me to "calm down". One can only wonder at the thought process...
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Some interesting views regarding a supporters group. It's worth remembering that we're now in an age where we have a strong official social media presence where views are surely read at the very least. You then have the curious status of this forum which is unofficial and probably used by only a small minority of our fanbase yet has the occasional posts from officials on it. Add it all up and the views of the fans can be easily seen, and across a broad church. Very different from 30 people in the Noel White Suite on a Monday night asking the chairman stuff.
I would certainly say though that there needs to be some properly coordinated link between the club and it's fanbase where concerns and suggestions are logged and acted upon. A supporter liaison officer could be effective.
the views must be getting read as they are getting deleted
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Some interesting views regarding a supporters group. It's worth remembering that we're now in an age where we have a strong official social media presence where views are surely read at the very least. You then have the curious status of this forum which is unofficial and probably used by only a small minority of our fanbase yet has the occasional posts from officials on it. Add it all up and the views of the fans can be easily seen, and across a broad church. Very different from 30 people in the Noel White Suite on a Monday night asking the chairman stuff.
I would certainly say though that there needs to be some properly coordinated link between the club and it's fanbase where concerns and suggestions are logged and acted upon. A supporter liaison officer could be effective.
the views must be getting read as they are getting deleted
1984 arrives 39 years late.
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Some interesting views regarding a supporters group. It's worth remembering that we're now in an age where we have a strong official social media presence where views are surely read at the very least. You then have the curious status of this forum which is unofficial and probably used by only a small minority of our fanbase yet has the occasional posts from officials on it. Add it all up and the views of the fans can be easily seen, and across a broad church. Very different from 30 people in the Noel White Suite on a Monday night asking the chairman stuff.
I would certainly say though that there needs to be some properly coordinated link between the club and it's fanbase where concerns and suggestions are logged and acted upon. A supporter liaison officer could be effective.
the views must be getting read as they are getting deleted
Important not to blur the lines between the Facebook supporters group and the club though mate. As petty as their moderation has been this week, the group is unofficial and moderated by fans who aren’t involved with the club.
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My point is the sterile area at the scoreboard IS the segregation. Read my post again it says away supporters should NOT be in the popular side period.
You said this isnt anyones fault?
No other club worries about away fans as much as us.
Torquay - no toilets or food.
Maidstone - no away hot food.
Wrexham - cap every club
York - messed our stand around.
I must disagree on Torquay they do have toilets and food for away fans,what i do not like abour plainmoor is we are put in the stand,rather than behind the goal.
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My point is the sterile area at the scoreboard IS the segregation. Read my post again it says away supporters should NOT be in the popular side period.
You said this isnt anyones fault?
No other club worries about away fans as much as us.
Torquay - no toilets or food.
Maidstone - no away hot food.
Wrexham - cap every club
York - messed our stand around.
I must disagree on Torquay they do have toilets and food for away fans,what i do not like abour plainmoor is we are put in the stand,rather than behind the goal.
On Saturday night earlier in the year, my only option for food was to go in the home end. Thus no away food
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My point is the sterile area at the scoreboard IS the segregation. Read my post again it says away supporters should NOT be in the popular side period.
You said this isnt anyones fault?
No other club worries about away fans as much as us.
Torquay - no toilets or food.
Maidstone - no away hot food.
Wrexham - cap every club
York - messed our stand around.
I must disagree on Torquay they do have toilets and food for away fans,what i do not like abour plainmoor is we are put in the stand,rather than behind the goal.
That'd be a bonus for me Harold - behind the goal isn't my favourite spot.