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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Mrs Warbouys on November 16, 2016, 09:28:35 AM
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Alfreton 7/10
Draw 13/5
Alty 3/1
Obeng--Thomas--Hannigan--McWilliams
---------Moult--Lenighan--Richman
Patterson-----------------------Miller
--------------------Reeves
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It's fairly obvious that we need another striker on loan for Reeves looks horribly isolated whatever the formation.
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He was surrounded by players on Saturday for 70 mins. Unfortunately that was when he was sat on bench.
I suspect it will be the same on Saturday
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A game we definitely need something from.
I believe Miller has the ability to be a very good winger and he can score goals, I thought him and McWilliams worked well together last Sat v Salford
I would give the young lad Kane a run out on the other wing and go 442.
Don't make it too complicated Mr Harvey or I fear the players will be like rabbits in the headlights (again)
It would be good to see another Striker at the club. (with a bit of height).
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He was surrounded by players on Saturday for 70 mins. Unfortunately that was when he was sat on bench.
I suspect it will be the same on Saturday
The way the team is setup, we wont see the best of Reeves, its no fkn good banging high balls up front all the time but that is what happens, mainly because those at the back sh*t themselves when they get the ball and just want to get rid.
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As discussed with a few others the other night, we are constantly getting over run in midfield. That in turn leads to problems at both ends. Got to get some steel in the middle, hence I've picked the three I've gone for. We've used about 40 players and are still no nearer a settled preferred X1. We need to either play a 4-4-2 and just go toe to toe with sides but we don't have the pace for me at present. Or dominate games by taking control of the middle of the park.
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Alfreton 7/10
Draw 13/5
Alty 3/1
Obeng--Thomas--Hannigan--McWilliams
---------Moult--Lenighan--Richman
Patterson-----------------------Miller
--------------------Reeves
I'd play a very similar starting 11 to Dickfingers but I'd swap Patterson and Obeng. I reckon Obeng would make a decent right winger.
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As discussed with a few others the other night, we are constantly getting over run in midfield. That in turn leads to problems at both ends. Got to get some steel in the middle, hence I've picked the three I've gone for. We've used about 40 players and are still no nearer a settled preferred X1. We need to either play a 4-4-2 and just go toe to toe with sides but we don't have the pace for me at present. Or dominate games by taking control of the middle of the park.
I don't recall Lenighan exhibiting much steel in midfield during the 34 minutes before he was unceremoniously hauled off against Salford last Saturday.
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Dawber
Obeng Morrison Hannigan McWilliams
Richman Thomas Lenighan
Lawrie Reeves Wilkinson
Just get stuck in to them and make your passes count. Come on Alty!
2-1 win, the start of the turnaround and something clicks.
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Dawber
Obeng Morrison Hannigan McWilliams
Richman Thomas Lenighan
Lawrie Reeves Wilkinson
Thomas in midfield? Well, why not? Not a bad call, might as well try something different. Still nothing up front though. No Miller? He's our only forward player who looks even remotely dangerous or indeed arsed at the moment.
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Dawber
Obeng Morrison Hannigan McWilliams
Richman Thomas Lenighan
Lawrie Reeves Wilkinson
Thomas in midfield? Well, why not? Not a bad call, might as well try something different. Still nothing up front though. No Miller? He's our only forward player who looks even remotely dangerous or indeed arsed at the moment.
Thomas keeping the centre backs calm and collecting the ball off them (if they ever get hold of it).
Im thinking more about getting them to keep the ball and feed Reeves on the move and between the defenders. Maybe Miller for Wilkinson, but can he pick a pass?
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Interesting that noone so far has named cyrus in the squad let alone captain....also noone has reeves on the bench.
Jim take note.....
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My two penneth - repeats many of the themes we have seen above. Strengthen the defensive midfield and therefore the defence. Assumes Hannigan injured still
Dawber
Obeng Thomas Morrison McWilliam
Patterson Moult Richman
Wilkinson Miller
Reeves
We are getting over run because Miller, Wilkinson, Lawrie cannot all play together; but I think we could perm 2 from 3; with the 3rd as an impact sub. Alternative to this would be a 4-4-1-1 with Patterson and Obeng covering for each other / getting forward with Miller and McWIlliam doing the same on the other side. Wilko behind Reeves.
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He was surrounded by players on Saturday for 70 mins. Unfortunately that was when he was sat on bench.
I suspect it will be the same on Saturday
lol bravo
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I'm going and bringing two mates. The last time one of them saw Alty was the Kettering semi final play off so a long long time.
I think they're coming out of morbid curiosity.
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2-0 alfreton unless a miracle occurs and we start with a recognisable formation, goalkeeper and striker
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Alfreton's 17 league games have yielded 83 goals....almost 5 per match. Only Stalybridge have a worse defensive record, but only 3 teams have scored more goals - and they're all in the top 4 !
They're likely to rip our appalling defence to shreds after strolling through our ineffective midfield. We might notch a couple ourselves if Reeves and Miller both start, in which case I take us to lose 5-2.
If Reevesy is benched again you can forget the 2.
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Dawber
Patterson
Hannigan
Cyrus
McWilliams
Moult
Richman
Miller
Wilkinson
Lawrie
Reeves
Subs
Deasey
Lenighan
Marsh
Goodall
Obeng
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Probably are best 11
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Are Thomas and LMD injured?
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Yessss
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Go on Greg.
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f**k off
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Its no good the commentators saying on RR that we played well,
We lost 3-2 ffs
The team is sh*t and that's a fact
End of
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Start preparing for next season. Ask JH if he's prepared to stick it out in the Northern Prem, if he's not then get rid. Same with the players.
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:-* :-*
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:-* :-*
I'd probably be on my own forum discussing a good away win.
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We lost that game to a team much much worse than us. The manager should definitely walk for some of the most abysmal substitutions I have ever seen.
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Was Mcwilliams injured? Because if not thats the biggest bollock dropped in a year full of them
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McWilliams didn't look injured to me. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sick to my back teeth of Goodall.
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Would have made such a difference even getting a point ,bpa should get out of this , I think Nuneaton ,Gainsborough and Boston could end up in trouble
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It's irrelevant who else gets out of it. We are putting in unacceptable performances on a weekly basis. I, for one, have better things to do than watch this dross every other week. Starting from now.
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That's not entirely fair. We were by far the better team today. Defeat was purely down to our manager's tactical naivety. Goodall for McWilliams ffs. I'm traditionally not a fan of Lawrie, but he did ok today and he's 10x the player of Obeng. I've not seen Marsh have a shot yet. Really angry tonight, because that was daylight robbery.
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The torment just goes on and on......
Jim Harvey's record as Alty manager in his opening nine league fixtures:
Won: 1.
Drawn: 0.
Lost: 8.
Goals scored: 7.
Goals conceded: 23.
Points gained: 3 out of a possible total of 27.
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Rowley out
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Oh dear....
View From The Dugout: "To get out of this hole we must learn to defend properly"
http://altrincham.today/2016/11/19/view-dugout-get-hole-must-learn-defend-properly/ (http://altrincham.today/2016/11/19/view-dugout-get-hole-must-learn-defend-properly/)
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McWilliams wasn't injured.
I hope the question is asked in post match interview why he subbed for the biggest millstone signing young made.
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McWilliams wasn't injured.
I hope the question is asked in post match interview why he subbed for the biggest millstone signing young made.
Maybe he was saving the better players legs for the trophy ....
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The torment just goes on and on......
Jim Harvey's record as Alty manager in his opening nine league fixtures:
Won: 1.
Drawn: 0.
Lost: 8.
Goals scored: 7.
Goals conceded: 23.
Points gained: 3 out of a possible total of 27.
I'm not sure what we have done as fans to deserve this but the tragedy goes on
Questions must be asked about making substitutions. We were on top by the sounds of it . Just see it out . Leave it be. We needed the win and the confidence . Truly awful and amatuer
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McWilliams wasn't injured.
I hope the question is asked in post match interview why he subbed for the biggest millstone signing young made.
Maybe he was saving the better players legs for the trophy ....
What better players ?
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McWilliams wasn't injured.
I hope the question is asked in post match interview why he subbed for the biggest millstone signing young made.
Maybe he was saving the better players legs for the trophy ....
What better players ?
good question. The marginally better ones than the worse ones ... 😢😢😢😢
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As one of the travelling fans today I can tell those who missed it that there was real anger at the end. It was undoubtedly the best performance of an abysmal season ...yet we walk away with feck all. Undone by schoolboy defending on 2 x long throws into the box, even Stevie Wonder could see the goals coming from the normal scramble in the box when they simply wanted it more.
The support are losing it big time with JH ....quite why he meddled with the formation and personnel towards the end when we had genuinely outplayed a poor side beggars belief. McWilliams had a sound game, no need for him to be subbed for No Legs Goodall. Reevesy had just missed an absolute sitter, so his reward was the hook in favour of Marsh...but at least this was a straight swap.
Lots of angry people and scenes at the end, a groundswell of ill feeling towards Mr Harvey. There had been some really good performances by Moult ( best game of the season by miles), Hannigan, Miller, McWilliams, Richman, Patterson. An absolute travesty of a result, we had more than enough chances to win this game. Willko through on keeper first half, sitter missed by Reevesy, Miller smacked the post, loads of shots blocked etc etc.
This was a much better formation until he changed it and messed about over complicating it...really gutting loss.
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We are now 9 points short of safety.....and we don't even HAVE 9 sodding points.
Someone once said on here that it wasn't the despair that was killing them, it was the hope.
It's just despair for me - I abandoned hope a month ago.
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We are now 9 points short of safety.....and we don't even HAVE 9 sodding points.
Someone once said on here that it wasn't the despair that was killing them, it was the hope.
It's just despair for me - I abandoned hope a month ago.
it's 10 points when you factor goal difference in
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As one of the travelling fans today I can tell those who missed it that there was real anger at the end. It was undoubtedly the best performance of an abysmal season ...yet we walk away with feck all. Undone by schoolboy defending on 2 x long throws into the box, even Stevie Wonder could see the goals coming from the normal scramble in the box when they simply wanted it more.
The support are losing it big time with JH ....quite why he meddled with the formation and personnel towards the end when we had genuinely outplayed a poor side beggars belief. McWilliams had a sound game, no need for him to be subbed for No Legs Goodall. Reevesy had just missed an absolute sitter, so his reward was the hook in favour of Marsh...but at least this was a straight swap.
Lots of angry people and scenes at the end, a groundswell of ill feeling towards Mr Harvey. There had been some really good performances by Moult ( best game of the season by miles), Hannigan, Miller, McWilliams, Richman, Patterson. An absolute travesty of a result, we had more than enough chances to win this game. Willko through on keeper first half, sitter missed by Reevesy, Miller smacked the post, loads of shots blocked etc etc.
This was a much better formation until he changed it and messed about over complicating it...really gutting loss.
I salute all those that continue to spend thier hard money going away to watch alty
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salute all those that continue to spend thier hard money going away to watch alty
Completely agree Wayne. Even home games are a struggle for motivation these days.
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salute all those that continue to spend thier hard money going away to watch alty
Completely agree Wayne. Even home games are a struggle these days.
I really want to go to flyde away to go on the lash in Blackpool. The only reason I will go is to see the lads. No other reason . How sad
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They beat Boston 9-2 today. We'll probably win there.
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They beat Boston 9-2 today. We'll probably win there.
The only guarantee I can give you is we will drink there 😆
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As one of the travelling fans today I can tell those who missed it that there was real anger at the end. It was undoubtedly the best performance of an abysmal season ...yet we walk away with feck all. Undone by schoolboy defending on 2 x long throws into the box, even Stevie Wonder could see the goals coming from the normal scramble in the box when they simply wanted it more.
The support are losing it big time with JH ....quite why he meddled with the formation and personnel towards the end when we had genuinely outplayed a poor side beggars belief. McWilliams had a sound game, no need for him to be subbed for No Legs Goodall. Reevesy had just missed an absolute sitter, so his reward was the hook in favour of Marsh...but at least this was a straight swap.
Lots of angry people and scenes at the end, a groundswell of ill feeling towards Mr Harvey. There had been some really good performances by Moult ( best game of the season by miles), Hannigan, Miller, McWilliams, Richman, Patterson. An absolute travesty of a result, we had more than enough chances to win this game. Willko through on keeper first half, sitter missed by Reevesy, Miller smacked the post, loads of shots blocked etc etc.
This was a much better formation until he changed it and messed about over complicating it...really gutting loss.
If you didn't go to today's game, this post sums it up 100% perfectly.
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Went today. First up they were bobbins and we had the beating of them. The starting lineup was a s good as we can put out, we were better in most departments and looked fully committed to the cause.
We were solid in defence, not inspiring, but more than enough to manage their limited attacking threat. For me there were two changes that gave them the game. Obeng came on and looked lightweight, he gave them space, but putting Goodall on in place of, in my view, our Man of the Match, McWilliams, achieved jack all bar unsettling the defensive unit. A needless swap.
Three points on the hip, now we're really in the poo.
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Resign rowley
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Got home half an hour ago and am angry. For the first time I am angry specifically with this management. We were winning the game - not as convincingly as might have been the case, but we were winning with seven minutes of normal time remaining - and the manager took off the left-back, who didn't look injured & hadn't played at all badly, replaced him with a player who hasn't featured since 3.10 p.m. on October 29th, isn't match fit, is slow even when he is fit, & is not a left-back. The system appeared to change to three at the back; the opposition no. 2, who had been a threat to a degree all afternoon, was allowed free rein, they got a couple more of the long throws that had been a menace all day, and we conceded two goals in 184 seconds, throwing away three points which were ours for the taking. The current team cannot switch systems at the drop of a hat - not many teams at this level can - and is not capable of sitting back and defending a lead at the best of times. All the hard work, energy, endeavour, commitment & show of pride in the shirt that had been forthcoming in the first 83 minutes was sacrificed by an indefensible tactical decision.
Reeves should have scored with his header - he was immediately substituted & his replacement provided no threat whatever to Alfreton, by the way - but that's as much the rub of the green as Miller hitting the post & Wilkinson scoring with a shot which took a big deflection. Obeng for Lawrie was in my view not an unreasonable substitution. I cannot, however, understand or justify the final change & I repeat that in my view it cost us the game. I feel like asking Mr. Harvey for a contribution towards my expenses since his decision screwed up my day, but that would be a pretty pointless exercise - as, sadly, going to Derbyshire has been today.
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The man who brought him in needs to go, rowley out
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Got home half an hour ago and am angry. For the first time I am angry specifically with this management. We were winning the game - not as convincingly as might have been the case, but we were winning with seven minutes of normal time remaining - and the manager took off the left-back, who didn't look injured & hadn't played at all badly, replaced him with a player who hasn't featured since 3.10 p.m. on October 29th, isn't match fit, is slow even when he is fit, & is not a left-back. The system appeared to change to three at the back; the opposition no. 2, who had been a threat to a degree all afternoon, was allowed free rein, they got a couple more of the long throws that had been a menace all day, and we conceded two goals in 184 seconds, throwing away three points which were ours for the taking. The current team cannot switch systems at the drop of a hat - not many teams at this level can - and is not capable of sitting back and defending a lead at the best of times. All the hard work, energy, endeavour, commitment & show of pride in the shirt that had been forthcoming in the first 83 minutes was sacrificed by an indefensible tactical decision.
Reeves should have scored with his header - he was immediately substituted & his replacement provided no threat whatever to Alfreton, by the way - but that's as much the rub of the green as Miller hitting the post & Wilkinson scoring with a shot which took a big deflection. Obeng for Lawrie was in my view not an unreasonable substitution. I cannot, however, understand or justify the final change & I repeat that in my view it cost us the game. I feel like asking Mr. Harvey for a contribution towards my expenses since his decision screwed up my day, but that would be a pretty pointless exercise - as, sadly, going to Derbyshire has been today.
What a fantastic post!!
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Great posts but come on. How can you blame Graham Rowley.. He appointed some one who almost rescued Halifax AND won the FA Trophy. YOU would have thought him a credible candidate.
I think we are about to make a break through. I don't expect it to be against Tamworth because they are flying too high but things are definitely on the change. It can't come soon enough. A couple of wins by Christmas will be a start.
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Great posts but come on. How can you blame Graham Rowley.. He appointed some one who almost rescued Halifax AND won the FA Trophy. YOU would have thought him a credible candidate.
I think we are about to make a break through. I don't expect it to be against Tamworth because they are flying too high but things are definitely on the change. It can't come soon enough. A couple of wins by Christmas will be a start.
If we can see beyond the final score there positives to take from today. Far more than V Salford.
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Only a couple of wins by Christmas will see us relegated by March, things need to change either at managerial or board level or both. Either Jim hasn't got enough money or he has and he is unable to spend it wisely.
I like Jim Harvey but he hasnt become a bad manger overnight, if we get relegated as is highly likely, the Board must take responsibility.
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Great posts but come on. How can you blame Graham Rowley.. He appointed some one who almost rescued Halifax AND won the FA Trophy. YOU would have thought him a credible candidate.
I think we are about to make a break through. I don't expect it to be against Tamworth because they are flying too high but things are definitely on the change. It can't come soon enough. A couple of wins by Christmas will be a start.
I try to avoid all the finger pointing as largely it's pointless
However let's be really clear on a few points
Jim was the forums first choice (and mine)
However I will remind us all again. He was handed a pile of sh*te most managers would not have even had the balls to try and sort
Do I blame the chairman for the loss today .. no
Do I think Jim's appointment was correct .. yes
However this Club was placed at a significant disadvantage by bringing in a manager who 6 months prior left football to never return after nearly destroying stockport . He should never have been hired
Also the decision to not bring in someone to save us from the drop last season was unforgiveable .
So I don't blame the people who appointed Jim . But I do hold them fully accountable for sending us down then putting us right up against it before a ball was kicked this season
And I'm sorry but if you disagree you are wearing some amazing rose tinted glasses and I would like to borrow them please
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Well said Wayno
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Rowley out
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Right - I've taken time to calm down and think since I got back from Alfreton - I missed the post match protest as I left at the final whistle to dash for my train, but the people who bothered to go are perfectly entitled to react as they think fit.
We murdered Alfreton for 85 minutes and should have finished them off well before the frantic finale. The starting 11 (of whom only McWilliams was brought in by JH) were excellent - they showed effort. commitment and desire today, as much as anyone could possibly wish for - Hannigan makes a massive difference, not least to Cyrus, who looked twice the player he has recently today. And then.....
Someone once told me "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and today JH tried and dismally failed to fix something that wasn't broken. His substitutions (or lack of them) fill me with confusion. Last week he let Obeng on for 90 minutes of utter ineptitude out of position when he had Richman (who was really good today) sitting on the bench, as he so often has to. Today he took off Lawrie (who was playing well) and McWilliams (who was playing really well) and put on Obeng to play on the right up front again (was JH not watching last week?) and Goodall to play in a back 3. Why? I feel gutted for the lads who started the match, who really deserved the 3 points. The starting line up (except Andy McW) was all there when JH arrived, so what else exactly has he brought to the party since early September? I find it hard to argue that today's starting line up is not our strongest, and they played like it while they were allowed to by JH.
The upshot of the substitutions was that we lost to an awful team, who for 85 minutes looked no better than Stalybridge and way inferior to us (I think I have seen the 3rd relegated team this season, and I do not mean us!) and who should have been on their last legs at the end after going to extra time against a league team on Tuesday with the smallest squad in the N.L.N. (sometimes they have only had 2 or 3 subs this season). Why did we voluntarily give up the initiative in a match we were winning with ease?
The other phrase that came to mind today was "lions led by donkeys" - I was so proud of the starting 11 and I feel like they have been kicked in the teeth. We are not good enough for the management to make crass mistakes in team selection and substitutions. Unless JH starts the same 11 next week (fitness permitting) I will regretfully have to conclude that he does not have a clue what he is doing. I believe he said recently that he still didn't know wha t his best starting line up is - well I do and we saw it today. I know he was sold one hell of a pup by Neil Young, but JH is not helping himself at the moment. Young's brief reign was characterised by panic signings, wholesale team changes and woeful substitutions, and at the moment I am struggling to see enough of a difference under JH. We HAVE to beat the rubbish sides around us, and there are enough of them to keep us up, but we have to stop shooting ourselves in the foot. I cannot recall a more frustrating end to a more promising performance.
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Right - I've taken time to calm down and think since I got back from Alfreton - I missed the post match protest as I left at the final whistle to dash for my train, but the people who bothered to go are perfectly entitled to react as they think fit.
We murdered Alfreton for 85 minutes and should have finished them off well before the frantic finale. The starting 11 (of whom only McWilliams was brought in by JH) were excellent - they showed effort. commitment and desire today, as much as anyone could possibly wish for - Hannigan makes a massive difference, not least to Cyrus, who looked twice the player he has recently today. And then.....
Someone once told me "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and today JH tried and dismally failed to fix something that wasn't broken. His substitutions (or lack of them) fill me with confusion. Last week he let Obeng on for 90 minutes of utter ineptitude out of position when he had Richman (who was really good today) sitting on the bench, as he so often has to. Today he took off Lawrie (who was playing well) and McWilliams (who was playing really well) and put on Obeng to play on the right up front again (was JH not watching last week?) and Goodall to play in a back 3. Why? I feel gutted for the lads who started the match, who really deserved the 3 points. The starting line up (except Andy McW) was all there when JH arrived, so what else exactly has he brought to the party since early September? I find it hard to argue that today's starting line up is not our strongest, and they played like it while they were allowed to by JH.
The upshot of the substitutions was that we lost to an awful team, who for 85 minutes looked no better than Stalybridge and way inferior to us (I think I have seen the 3rd relegated team this season, and I do not mean us!) and who should have been on their last legs at the end after going to extra time against a league team on Tuesday with the smallest squad in the N.L.N. (sometimes they have only had 2 or 3 subs this season). Why did we voluntarily give up the initiative in a match we were winning with ease?
The other phrase that came to mind today was "lions led by donkeys" - I was so proud of the starting 11 and I feel like they have been kicked in the teeth. We are not good enough for the management to make crass mistakes in team selection and substitutions. Unless JH starts the same 11 next week (fitness permitting) I will regretfully have to conclude that he does not have a clue what he is doing. I believe he said recently that he still didn't know wha t his best starting line up is - well I do and we saw it today. I know he was sold one hell of a pup by Neil Young, but JH is not helping himself at the moment. Young's brief reign was characterised by panic signings, wholesale team changes and woeful substitutions, and at the moment I am struggling to see enough of a difference under JH. We HAVE to beat the rubbish sides around us, and there are enough of them to keep us up, but we have to stop shooting ourselves in the foot. I cannot recall a more frustrating end to a more promising performance.
great post. We do have an attraction issue at the club though sadly now . Who in their right mind would want to join a club destined for a 2nd successive relegation. Does not look good on the CV
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And that's if we can even afford them of course ....
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JH also brought in Wilkinson but that is a very good post.
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Fair enough. I wasn't there today. I respect what you say.
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Its no good the commentators saying on RR that we played well,
We lost 3-2 ffs
The team is sh*t and that's a fact
End of
We can only call it as we see it, Ray.
Looking at our games this season, I think that is the first time that we have played well & lost when we should have won. I would also suggest that we have won three games that easily could have ended differently (Morpeth, Stalybridge, Matlock). The only game that I believe that we deserved to win was against Gainsborough in the FA Cup & we didn't play as well in that game or dominate it as much as we dominated yesterday.
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100% correct Brian
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I interviewed Jim after the game and would like to make one point, before it appears later, in the interests of clarity. I didn't ask him about the substitutions simply because I didn't see them as the cause of our downfall. Much as we were the better side for most of the game, Alfreton were always going to throw everything at us in those last few minutes, after going behind, and, to my mind, we failed to hold on simply because of a chronic inability to defend one long throw hoisted high into our six-yard box from the right and another from the left. I asked Jim about that, and he didn't hold back with his answer. Sorry to those who have been highlighting the substitutions. I would never duck out of asking a question, but I just didn't think that was what cost us. We should have seen it out, and Jim addresses that in an interview that should be on the website later today.
Just one other point, adding to Brian's response to a post by distance traveller. Ray, you are absolutely right it's no good playing well if you then throw it away with abject defending at the end, but that is precisely what I said in my post-match summary. Don't know whether you had switched off in disgust by then, but, honesty, I could scarcely have made the point more forcibly.
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Thank you for that clarification John. The point that we have been making about the substitutions is that for long periods of the game Alfreton had not laid a glove on us,and we commendably kept trying to get a second when we were 1-0 up. I agree entirely that we were always going to have problems if Alfreton threw the kitchen sink at us, but surely the best way of avoiding that was to carry on going forward and get a third goal, given the 'quality' of much of our defending this season - we were all saying behind the goal that we needed to score 3 to win (we were of course wrong!) What upset us about the substitutions is that they were negative (we saw enough of Curtis Obeng on the right wing for a lifetime in the Salford match, thank you) and in the case of taking off AMcW incomprehensible. The best way of protecting a vulnerable defence is not settling in for a late siege, but carrying on playing the football that had got us into the winning position in the first place. "Defence is the best form of attack"? That was the problem in my view.
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I do wonder however if we had been 2 1 down and made 2 substitutions and won 3 2 if that would have talked about as a pivotal thing that won the game.
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I interviewed Jim after the game and would like to make one point, before it appears later, in the interests of clarity. I didn't ask him about the substitutions simply because I didn't see them as the cause of our downfall. Much as we were the better side for most of the game, Alfreton were always going to throw everything at us in those last few minutes, after going behind, and, to my mind, we failed to hold on simply because of a chronic inability to defend one long throw hoisted high into our six-yard box from the right and another from the left. I asked Jim about that, and he didn't hold back with his answer. Sorry to those who have been highlighting the substitutions. I would never duck out of asking a question, but I just didn't think that was what cost us. We should have seen it out, and Jim addresses that in an interview that should be on the website later today.
Just one other point, adding to Brian's response to a post by distance traveller. Ray, you are absolutely right it's no good playing well if you then throw it away with abject defending at the end, but that is precisely what I said in my post-match summary. Don't know whether you had switched off in disgust by then, but, honesty, I could scarcely have made the point more forcibly.
I wanst there but surely the subs had a huge impact. He brought defensive players on with only a one goal margin.I read he went 3 at the back,that naturally invites pressure on a defence that is conceding a lot of goals. I personally would never defend a one goal lead. If they were not causing us any trouble until those subs then why not still go at them or bring on attack minded players. To me he has to take some of the blame.
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To add I would always defend from the front. With high wide players constantly closing down their defence, but unfortunately Lawrie and Miller haven't got that in their tanks. Silly comparison but England against Spain for 75 mins had awesome tempo and pressing high up the pitch. The subs and drop in energy levels also messed that result up.
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Whilst I appreciate that everyone is entitled to their opinion, my view is that the substitutions did directly impact on yesterday's game. By taking the energy levels of McWilliams and Lawrie from the team, we effectively invited a very poor Alfreton team onto us. In which planet would Goodall and Obeng have tightened our defence up? I'm still very upset after yesterday and even more upset that the question of substitutions wasn't put to Jim Harvey in the interview.
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I interviewed Jim after the game and would like to make one point, before it appears later, in the interests of clarity. I didn't ask him about the substitutions simply because I didn't see them as the cause of our downfall. Much as we were the better side for most of the game, Alfreton were always going to throw everything at us in those last few minutes, after going behind, and, to my mind, we failed to hold on simply because of a chronic inability to defend one long throw hoisted high into our six-yard box from the right and another from the left. I asked Jim about that, and he didn't hold back with his answer. Sorry to those who have been highlighting the substitutions. I would never duck out of asking a question, but I just didn't think that was what cost us. We should have seen it out, and Jim addresses that in an interview that should be on the website later today.
Just one other point, adding to Brian's response to a post by distance traveller. Ray, you are absolutely right it's no good playing well if you then throw it away with abject defending at the end, but that is precisely what I said in my post-match summary. Don't know whether you had switched off in disgust by then, but, honesty, I could scarcely have made the point more forcibly.
John/Brian. Fair point . I did turn off before your summary was finished... it was a post born out of frustration at another loss, and was written in haste.
I will give it 10 minutes before I hit the keyboard in future...
You do offer good service at RR, I hope the team offer a similar service very soon
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I was at the game and I too left right at the final whistle (standing with their fans) for a quick exit back up the M1. First off, not that it makes any difference, the Alfreton view was they did indeed get away with floodlit robbery but hey ho. Moult and Richman looked the players they were a couple of seasons ago and gave us much more energy, Wilkinson and Miller caused them problems all afternoon.
IMHO we looked dangerous on the counter attack - we weren't dominating possession, as such the substitutions and how they affected the nature of the game are being overplayed. Alfreton were lumping it forward throughout the second half and had created nothing. Their first came from a long free kick into the box and it was clear the Alamo was upon us once we went 2- 1 up. We'll see in Johns' interview with JH, but I imagine the McWilliams sub was to break play up, wind the clock down and bring on Goodall who he thought might be better in the air. Didn't work did it?
For me the real reason we lost is we didn't get the second, or indeed third goal I think our play merited before they scored. Damien's headed miss was an absolute shocker I'm afraid. Again maybe JH will tell us, but I'm guessing he wasn't hooked because of that, rather he'd spent all afternoon up front on his own and as usual had done a great job. Desperately disappointing for all concerned but there were encouraging signs. If we are to get out of this we need to go 442 at home, get a back to goal CF to support Reeves / Marsh and so hold the ball up for Wilkinson / Lawrie.
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Good post, JTH, I agree with much of what you say, particularly about Moult and Richman. They did, indeed, look very much the players they were a couple of seasons ago. The interview has now been transcribed, written up and submitted to John Laidlar, and it should be on the website at about 2.30. Just one thing on the substitution of Damian Reeves. Our vantage point in the press box was directly behind the away dug-out, and Phil Marsh had been getting ready to go on a good couple of minutes before Reevesy missed that glaring chance. The switch had nothing to do with the header. As you rightly suggest, JTH, it was more to do with the fact Reevesy had done his usual selfless hard graft in that lone striking role. Oh, and Ray, no need for an apology - keep tuning in!
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I interviewed Jim after the game and would like to make one point, before it appears later, in the interests of clarity. I didn't ask him about the substitutions simply because I didn't see them as the cause of our downfall. Much as we were the better side for most of the game, Alfreton were always going to throw everything at us in those last few minutes, after going behind, and, to my mind, we failed to hold on simply because of a chronic inability to defend one long throw hoisted high into our six-yard box from the right and another from the left. I asked Jim about that, and he didn't hold back with his answer. Sorry to those who have been highlighting the substitutions. I would never duck out of asking a question, but I just didn't think that was what cost us. We should have seen it out, and Jim addresses that in an interview that should be on the website later today.
Just one other point, adding to Brian's response to a post by distance traveller. Ray, you are absolutely right it's no good playing well if you then throw it away with abject defending at the end, but that is precisely what I said in my post-match summary. Don't know whether you had switched off in disgust by then, but, honesty, I could scarcely have made the point more forcibly.
John/Brian. Fair point . I did turn off before your summary was finished... it was a post born out of frustration at another loss, and was written in haste.
I will give it 10 minutes before I hit the keyboard in future...
You do offer good service at RR, I hope the team offer a similar service very soon
Thanks Ray.....I think that we are all hurting a bit right now & sometimes listening can be even more frustrating than being there!
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I interviewed Jim after the game and would like to make one point, before it appears later, in the interests of clarity. I didn't ask him about the substitutions simply because I didn't see them as the cause of our downfall. Much as we were the better side for most of the game, Alfreton were always going to throw everything at us in those last few minutes, after going behind, and, to my mind, we failed to hold on simply because of a chronic inability to defend one long throw hoisted high into our six-yard box from the right and another from the left. I asked Jim about that, and he didn't hold back with his answer. Sorry to those who have been highlighting the substitutions. I would never duck out of asking a question, but I just didn't think that was what cost us. We should have seen it out, and Jim addresses that in an interview that should be on the website later today.
Just one other point, adding to Brian's response to a post by distance traveller. Ray, you are absolutely right it's no good playing well if you then throw it away with abject defending at the end, but that is precisely what I said in my post-match summary. Don't know whether you had switched off in disgust by then, but, honesty, I could scarcely have made the point more forcibly.
you did duck out of asking the question, and it's not the first time
Very poor - does Rowley tell you what you can and can't ask?
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I sat with my head in my hands yesterday after the game, and the 130 mile drive back South was n total silence.
Simon Richman was inspired yesterday, Jake Moult had his best game for a while. We had good tacking back and muscle from Wilko, Jimmy Lawrie and Miller. So the midfield did its bit in front of a back 4 that did look more solid. Reevsie worked and worked and his turn on the half way line for the run on goal was sublime. If we can play like that for 90 minutes instead of 80 we will win games.
However the subs added nothing - Marsh anonymous, Obeng bypassed in midfield, Goodall anonymous. Worse than that - we were unable to play the ball out from the back with the subs because the whilst the starting eleven knew where each other were, the finishing eleven didnt. And therefore the ball got hoofed back in.
By the way, to suggest that Grahame Rowley should resign (several times on this and other posts) because a team that had played well failed to hang on to a lead is a patent nonsense and should not be indulged. Its only a couple of weeks since the AGM where the vast consensus was that the board was listening to the fans and putting in place measures to address their concerns. That is still the case, and yesterdays match has no bearing on it
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Right - I've taken time to calm down and think since I got back from Alfreton - I missed the post match protest as I left at the final whistle to dash for my train, but the people who bothered to go are perfectly entitled to react as they think fit.
We murdered Alfreton for 85 minutes and should have finished them off well before the frantic finale. The starting 11 (of whom only McWilliams was brought in by JH) were excellent - they showed effort. commitment and desire today, as much as anyone could possibly wish for - Hannigan makes a massive difference, not least to Cyrus, who looked twice the player he has recently today. And then.....
Someone once told me "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and today JH tried and dismally failed to fix something that wasn't broken. His substitutions (or lack of them) fill me with confusion. Last week he let Obeng on for 90 minutes of utter ineptitude out of position when he had Richman (who was really good today) sitting on the bench, as he so often has to. Today he took off Lawrie (who was playing well) and McWilliams (who was playing really well) and put on Obeng to play on the right up front again (was JH not watching last week?) and Goodall to play in a back 3. Why? I feel gutted for the lads who started the match, who really deserved the 3 points. The starting line up (except Andy McW) was all there when JH arrived, so what else exactly has he brought to the party since early September? I find it hard to argue that today's starting line up is not our strongest, and they played like it while they were allowed to by JH.
The upshot of the substitutions was that we lost to an awful team, who for 85 minutes looked no better than Stalybridge and way inferior to us (I think I have seen the 3rd relegated team this season, and I do not mean us!) and who should have been on their last legs at the end after going to extra time against a league team on Tuesday with the smallest squad in the N.L.N. (sometimes they have only had 2 or 3 subs this season). Why did we voluntarily give up the initiative in a match we were winning with ease?
The other phrase that came to mind today was "lions led by donkeys" - I was so proud of the starting 11 and I feel like they have been kicked in the teeth. We are not good enough for the management to make crass mistakes in team selection and substitutions. Unless JH starts the same 11 next week (fitness permitting) I will regretfully have to conclude that he does not have a clue what he is doing. I believe he said recently that he still didn't know wha t his best starting line up is - well I do and we saw it today. I know he was sold one hell of a pup by Neil Young, but JH is not helping himself at the moment. Young's brief reign was characterised by panic signings, wholesale team changes and woeful substitutions, and at the moment I am struggling to see enough of a difference under JH. We HAVE to beat the rubbish sides around us, and there are enough of them to keep us up, but we have to stop shooting ourselves in the foot. I cannot recall a more frustrating end to a more promising performance.
What form did this take?
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I sat with my head in my hands yesterday after the game, and the 130 mile drive back South was n total silence.
Simon Richman was inspired yesterday, Jake Moult had his best game for a while. We had good tacking back and muscle from Wilko, Jimmy Lawrie and Miller. So the midfield did its bit in front of a back 4 that did look more solid. Reevsie worked and worked and his turn on the half way line for the run on goal was sublime. If we can play like that for 90 minutes instead of 80 we will win games.
However the subs added nothing - Marsh anonymous, Obeng bypassed in midfield, Goodall anonymous. Worse than that - we were unable to play the ball out from the back with the subs because the whilst the starting eleven knew where each other were, the finishing eleven didnt. And therefore the ball got hoofed back in.
By the way, to suggest that Grahame Rowley should resign (several times on this and other posts) because a team that had played well failed to hang on to a lead is a patent nonsense and should not be indulged. Its only a couple of weeks since the AGM where the vast consensus was that the board was listening to the fans and putting in place measures to address their concerns. That is still the case, and yesterdays match has no bearing on it
Rowley out is not directly due to yesterdays match, but the current position the club finds itself in under his stewardship
60% of this forum voted Rowley out only a couple of weeks ago and you should respect that
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"60% of this forum voted Rowley out only a couple of weeks ago and you should respect that"
What? This is a forum, not a binding referendum!
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I sat with my head in my hands yesterday after the game, and the 130 mile drive back South was n total silence.
Simon Richman was inspired yesterday, Jake Moult had his best game for a while. We had good tacking back and muscle from Wilko, Jimmy Lawrie and Miller. So the midfield did its bit in front of a back 4 that did look more solid. Reevsie worked and worked and his turn on the half way line for the run on goal was sublime. If we can play like that for 90 minutes instead of 80 we will win games.
However the subs added nothing - Marsh anonymous, Obeng bypassed in midfield, Goodall anonymous. Worse than that - we were unable to play the ball out from the back with the subs because the whilst the starting eleven knew where each other were, the finishing eleven didnt. And therefore the ball got hoofed back in.
By the way, to suggest that Grahame Rowley should resign (several times on this and other posts) because a team that had played well failed to hang on to a lead is a patent nonsense and should not be indulged. Its only a couple of weeks since the AGM where the vast consensus was that the board was listening to the fans and putting in place measures to address their concerns. That is still the case, and yesterdays match has no bearing on it
Rowley out is not directly due to yesterdays match, but the current position the club finds itself in under his stewardship
60% of this forum voted Rowley out only a couple of weeks ago and you should respect that
Why? only 70 people voted! There were more Alty at the game yesterday than could be arsed to vote on here. Let's asssume an avearge of 700 Alty fans per home game, 10% voted... and on that figure you demand a head on platter. I think not.
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I interviewed Jim after the game and would like to make one point, before it appears later, in the interests of clarity. I didn't ask him about the substitutions simply because I didn't see them as the cause of our downfall. Much as we were the better side for most of the game, Alfreton were always going to throw everything at us in those last few minutes, after going behind, and, to my mind, we failed to hold on simply because of a chronic inability to defend one long throw hoisted high into our six-yard box from the right and another from the left. I asked Jim about that, and he didn't hold back with his answer. Sorry to those who have been highlighting the substitutions. I would never duck out of asking a question, but I just didn't think that was what cost us. We should have seen it out, and Jim addresses that in an interview that should be on the website later today.
Just one other point, adding to Brian's response to a post by distance traveller. Ray, you are absolutely right it's no good playing well if you then throw it away with abject defending at the end, but that is precisely what I said in my post-match summary. Don't know whether you had switched off in disgust by then, but, honesty, I could scarcely have made the point more forcibly.
you did duck out of asking the question, and it's not the first time
Very poor - does Rowley tell you what you can and can't ask?
I'm glad to see that your new name is an anagram of "a nut" as that's how you come across on here most of the time.
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I interviewed Jim after the game and would like to make one point, before it appears later, in the interests of clarity. I didn't ask him about the substitutions simply because I didn't see them as the cause of our downfall. Much as we were the better side for most of the game, Alfreton were always going to throw everything at us in those last few minutes, after going behind, and, to my mind, we failed to hold on simply because of a chronic inability to defend one long throw hoisted high into our six-yard box from the right and another from the left. I asked Jim about that, and he didn't hold back with his answer. Sorry to those who have been highlighting the substitutions. I would never duck out of asking a question, but I just didn't think that was what cost us. We should have seen it out, and Jim addresses that in an interview that should be on the website later today.
Just one other point, adding to Brian's response to a post by distance traveller. Ray, you are absolutely right it's no good playing well if you then throw it away with abject defending at the end, but that is precisely what I said in my post-match summary. Don't know whether you had switched off in disgust by then, but, honesty, I could scarcely have made the point more forcibly.
you did duck out of asking the question, and it's not the first time
Very poor - does Rowley tell you what you can and can't ask?
I'm glad to see that your new name is an anagram of "a nut" as that's how you come across on here most of the time.
Oh I see, is this Sausages in disguise? If so, love you tuna. xxx Big hugs for you right here.
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I sat with my head in my hands yesterday after the game, and the 130 mile drive back South was n total silence.
Simon Richman was inspired yesterday, Jake Moult had his best game for a while. We had good tacking back and muscle from Wilko, Jimmy Lawrie and Miller. So the midfield did its bit in front of a back 4 that did look more solid. Reevsie worked and worked and his turn on the half way line for the run on goal was sublime. If we can play like that for 90 minutes instead of 80 we will win games.
However the subs added nothing - Marsh anonymous, Obeng bypassed in midfield, Goodall anonymous. Worse than that - we were unable to play the ball out from the back with the subs because the whilst the starting eleven knew where each other were, the finishing eleven didnt. And therefore the ball got hoofed back in.
By the way, to suggest that Grahame Rowley should resign (several times on this and other posts) because a team that had played well failed to hang on to a lead is a patent nonsense and should not be indulged. Its only a couple of weeks since the AGM where the vast consensus was that the board was listening to the fans and putting in place measures to address their concerns. That is still the case, and yesterdays match has no bearing on it
Rowley out is not directly due to yesterdays match, but the current position the club finds itself in under his stewardship
60% of this forum voted Rowley out only a couple of weeks ago and you should respect that
The bit in bold is exactly how I feel.
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"60% of this forum voted Rowley out only a couple of weeks ago and you should respect that"
What? This is a forum, not a binding referendum!
so do you think Rowley has more than 60% support amongst the supporters?
I would suggest it's far less - this forum has generally been pro Rowley in the past, in the real world his support is far less
Have you been appointed to the board yet?
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This forum was pro-Rowley when it was populated by people with a degree of common sense and understanding how the world works. It is now 50% trolls. It is the people on here that have changed not the opinion of the majority of those individuals
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This forum was pro-Rowley when it was populated by people with a degree of common sense and understanding how the world works. It is now 50% trolls. It is the people on here that have changed not the opinion of the majority of those individuals
Have to disagree here. Same people, same love for the club, just truly exacerbated by it all.
Any fan of a club on a downward spiral like ours which is largely due to managerial appointments has every right to question the boards integrity, regardless of how eloquently they word it.
It's really nice and easy to say the board can't change and that we can recover etc etc but how low do we need to sink for you to accept its a fair judgement?
Let's face it we're on the verge of going from national football to regional oblivion in less than 18 months. How on earth do you expect the fans to just sit there and accept that it happens and oh well at least we tried?
I don't think we need a new board as it happens, I think we need to learn quick and change things. However, a couple more months of this spiral and I'll be right with the 'board out' camp, so to me it's not absurd to think a large part of out fan base are already there.
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This forum was pro-Rowley when it was populated by people with a degree of common sense and understanding how the world works. It is now 50% trolls. It is the people on here that have changed not the opinion of the majority of those individuals
A very harsh judgement. The vast majority of posters on here are sincere in their opinions, even if you happen to disagree with them. Would you care to name names as to who these 50% are?
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"60% of this forum voted Rowley out only a couple of weeks ago and you should respect that"
What? This is a forum, not a binding referendum!
An instance of 'Evo-Stik means Evo-Stik' perhaps...?
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This forum was pro-Rowley when it was populated by people with a degree of common sense and understanding how the world works. It is now 50% trolls. It is the people on here that have changed not the opinion of the majority of those individuals
A very harsh judgement. The vast majority of posters on here are sincere in their opinions, even if you happen to disagree with them. Would you care to name names as to who these 50% are?
great question. I would actually say this this in itself is a "trolling" post
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This forum was pro-Rowley when it was populated by people with a degree of common sense and understanding how the world works. It is now 50% trolls. It is the people on here that have changed not the opinion of the majority of those individuals
The "everyone that disagrees with my point of view is stupid/uneducated" approach is why we've got a brexit vote in Britain and Donald trump heading into the White House. I think the boardroom needs to be strengthened, have had that view for a long time and will continue to hold that view. Proof is in the pudding when we can't compete with clubs like Harrogate town for 30 odd year old players. But it's wrong to question people's common sense just because they want to see a different direction for the club. Everyone should be able to air a view without it turning personal.
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I sat with my head in my hands yesterday after the game, and the 130 mile drive back South was n total silence.
Simon Richman was inspired yesterday, Jake Moult had his best game for a while. We had good tacking back and muscle from Wilko, Jimmy Lawrie and Miller. So the midfield did its bit in front of a back 4 that did look more solid. Reevsie worked and worked and his turn on the half way line for the run on goal was sublime. If we can play like that for 90 minutes instead of 80 we will win games.
However the subs added nothing - Marsh anonymous, Obeng bypassed in midfield, Goodall anonymous. Worse than that - we were unable to play the ball out from the back with the subs because the whilst the starting eleven knew where each other were, the finishing eleven didnt. And therefore the ball got hoofed back in.
By the way, to suggest that Grahame Rowley should resign (several times on this and other posts) because a team that had played well failed to hang on to a lead is a patent nonsense and should not be indulged. Its only a couple of weeks since the AGM where the vast consensus was that the board was listening to the fans and putting in place measures to address their concerns. That is still the case, and yesterdays match has no bearing on it
Consensus of who? The shareholders who own the club are either hopelessly out of touch, have their own agenda, are disinterested and don't go to the games, or sit on the current board.
Are you suggesting that supporters of the football club should get 'back in their box' and accept everything because the shareholders told them to?
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Not really justification as majority of Shareholders at the AGM were the Rowley family, club staff/volunteers and friends of the Board like Graham Heathcote etc. Hardly an independent panel.
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......Consensus of who? The shareholders who own the club are either hopelessly out of touch, have their own agenda, are disinterested and don't go to the games, or sit on the current board.
Let's have a look at that:
"Hopelessly out of touch" I don't think so as they are all fans of the club and have witnessed everything you have and no doubt read this forum - which whilst voicing the opinion of those who post on here regularly (did someone say 60?) statistically is an irrelevance.
"Have their own agenda" I doubt that very much. Everyone wants this club to succeed. We all have our opinions on how best this can be achieved though.
"disinterested" Afraid not. Who do you think "shareholders" are? We're all supporters.
"don't go to the games" wrong again.
"sit on the current board" Correct. A small proportion do but see the two previous answers above.
Nice try, but could do better.
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......Consensus of who? The shareholders who own the club are either hopelessly out of touch, have their own agenda, are disinterested and don't go to the games, or sit on the current board.
Let's have a look at that:
"Hopelessly out of touch" I don't think so as they are all fans of the club and have witnessed everything you have and no doubt read this forum - which whilst voicing the opinion of those who post on here regularly (did someone say 60?) statistically is an irrelevance.
"Have their own agenda" I doubt that very much. Everyone wants this club to succeed. We all have our opinions on how best this can be achieved though.
"disinterested" Afraid not. Who do you think "shareholders" are? We're all supporters.
"don't go to the games" wrong again.
"sit on the current board" Correct. A small proportion do but see the two previous answers above.
Nice try, but could do better.
There are thousands of shares that have been lost into oblivion by people who are now "disinterested" and "no longer attend games" so I believe it's you that is wrong on this account.
To claim nobody at the club has an agenda is simply untrue. The chairman had an agenda to get re-elected. The rest of the board had an agenda to make it happen, as did many of the staff/volunteers who attended. You're being incredibly naïve and purposely misinterpreting the wording.
The next two points sit together, "hopelessly out of touch" and "sit on the board". The majority of people that were at the AGM are people who think that everything is rosy at the club, the board have done absolutely no wrong and we are being run brilliantly. The comments by the board and the chairman attacking the fans in various publications without any form of evidence, and then when they had the chance to apologise absolutely refused to, and then ask for solidarity shows how out of touch the current board, and many of the happyclappers that surround them, truly are with the rest of the fan base.
Nice try, but could do better.
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......Consensus of who? The shareholders who own the club are either hopelessly out of touch, have their own agenda, are disinterested and don't go to the games, or sit on the current board.
Let's have a look at that:
"Hopelessly out of touch" I don't think so as they are all fans of the club and have witnessed everything you have and no doubt read this forum - which whilst voicing the opinion of those who post on here regularly (did someone say 60?) statistically is an irrelevance.
"Have their own agenda" I doubt that very much. Everyone wants this club to succeed. We all have our opinions on how best this can be achieved though.
"disinterested" Afraid not. Who do you think "shareholders" are? We're all supporters.
"don't go to the games" wrong again.
"sit on the current board" Correct. A small proportion do but see the two previous answers above.
Nice try, but could do better.
I think actually this could do a lot better. Its pretty much falling into the narrow minded or possibly naive bracket.
When you survey something you dont do the whole population you do a subset, There's over a hundred regular users of the forum, i'd say its a strong % and reasonable representation of the fanbase. Otherwise your asserting that none of the fans who dont use the forum share the same opinions of forum users within a similar representation which is quite simply laughable.
George Heslop's Moustache has covered the rest.
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This forum was pro-Rowley when it was populated by people with a degree of common sense and understanding how the world works. It is now 50% trolls. It is the people on here that have changed not the opinion of the majority of those individuals
A very harsh judgement. The vast majority of posters on here are sincere in their opinions, even if you happen to disagree with them. Would you care to name names as to who these 50% are?
I'd love too but they change too fast for me to keep up - maybe it's just 50% of the forum names that are trolls and that's only a small proportion of the people!