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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Hugh on August 17, 2022, 08:34:42 PM
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We saw it yet again last night, after a sustained spell of ALty pressure, a Maidenhead player went down "requiring" treatment for some time. After which he was able to continue. Of course he could have really taken a knock, but the same routine has happened in other games, and we know that teams do use it as a tactic to relieve a spell of pressure. This means we get home later (from places like Maidenhead) and see a less entertaining game. Too many time wasting tactics go unpunished whilst at the same time the football authorities see fit to obsess about marginal offsides. A few years back (well maybe a bit more than a few now...), at one world cup they insisted that players who got injured were taken off on an electric cart promptly for treatment. If not the same, we should certainly think along similar radical lines or such nonsense will just continue.
And another example of a keeper taking the p... again last night when the ball was given back to him for a goal kick, he kicked the ball "accidentally" into the stands (like Peter Jamieson, who, as mentioned previously, didn't catch the ball when it was thrown very near him for a goal kick). No ifs, no buts, such behaviour should always result in a booking, and referees should be alert to it
The back pass rule shows that radical changes can be made when they want to, and it is high time to get tough on such spoiling tactics, especially with the large amount of stoppage time that is common place these days (and I remember when Manchester United scoring a goal as much as 4 minutes into stoppage time was considered noteworthy) .
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Unless every match official is a qualified medic it isn't possible to intervene when injuries occur.
I suspect that, although in principal, the subject matter may have some value, your observations / suggestions are spectacularly impractical
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Wheeling them off for assessment by a qualified medic would certainly put a stop to it.
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But also punish players who are genuinely injured by a bad tackle for example
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Very simple - if you go down, and stay down, you must leave the field. You will not be allowed to re-enter play for 2 minutes. You can, however, be immediately substituted. That would cure a lot of it.
Goal kicks/free kicks should always be taken within 30 seconds of the ball being dead, and on the pitch. Delay it, you're booked. Players not retreating 10 yards within 10 seconds should also be booked !
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So defender kicks forward, forward goes down, stays down and has to have a 2 minute rest while team with the aggressor have an extra man? Any disincentive to go down also acts as a punishment for genuine injuries so unless you are prepared to make a judgement on which ones are genuine I think you have to live with the status quo
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Delay it, you're booked. Players not retreating 10 yards within 10 seconds should also be booked !
Pretty sure that this, or something close to it, is already a law but is hardly ever applied. Only seems to be applied if the kick is taken quickly and deliberately hit against the offending team member who hasn’t retreated.
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Some form of Rugby's ten yard penalty to be used for some offences would work (not the injury thing obvs)
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I'm going to be controversial here and say Stop Clock needs bringing in. There is already a 4th official, VAR both of which could control the time, its done in rugby and if used correctly in Football, could stop timewasting and controversey over substitutions and added on time for injuries. Time is only stopped in Rugby when the Ref deams it necessary and not for free kicks, throw ins, goal kicks etc. If used correctly it would work.
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You'd never get home for your tea, unless they cut it to 35 in-play minutes per half. Sometime, set your stopwatch and monitor how much time the ball is dead - you'll be amazed (ATS may know the answer.....)
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Luckily it's not just Alty who are exposed to this kind of nonsense ... all part of the game I guess :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbVJ-31JSrA
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Unless every match official is a qualified medic it isn't possible to intervene when injuries occur.
I suspect that, although in principal, the subject matter may have some value, your observations / suggestions are spectacularly impractical
Genuine question, what exactly happened with the electric carts business, was it in any way effective, why wasn't it repeated, and what are your insights into the matter (of electric carts specifically but also more generally on time wasting) as a qualified referee?
In any case, as I've suggested above, quite a lot could be done by enforcing the rules we already have (four steps rule, anyone?), and the matchday experience would gain more from, say, a properly enforced six second rule than "VARs" obsessing over an offside fingernail.
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I think electric carts would be better utilised loaded up with IPA and doing laps of the touchline during half time. 😎🤭
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Now there's an idea!
I seem to remember Everton doing something similar with those mints (doubtless someone can tell me if they did in 1975).
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Now there's an idea!
I seem to remember Everton doing something similar with those mints (doubtless someone can tell me if they did in 1975).
They did Hugh. The Toffee Girl, a regular feature at Goodison Park, used to throw Everton Mints into the crowd. Health & Safety probably put paid to that tradition.
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Now there's an idea!
I seem to remember Everton doing something similar with those mints (doubtless someone can tell me if they did in 1975).
They did Hugh. The Toffee Girl, a regular feature at Goodison Park, used to throw Everton Mints into the crowd. Health & Safety probably put paid to that tradition.
Bury used to throw black puddings or am I getting confused?
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Now there's an idea!
I seem to remember Everton doing something similar with those mints (doubtless someone can tell me if they did in 1975).
They did Hugh. The Toffee Girl, a regular feature at Goodison Park, used to throw Everton Mints into the crowd. Health & Safety probably put paid to that tradition.
Bury used to throw black puddings or am I getting confused?
I’m glad I don’t support West Ham. Those f%#@ hammers hurt.
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I was actually thinking of selling the IPA to relieve congestion in the club but I guess you knew that! 😉
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You'd never get home for your tea, unless they cut it to 35 in-play minutes per half. Sometime, set your stopwatch and monitor how much time the ball is dead - you'll be amazed (ATS may know the answer.....)
Taking the Southend-Borehamwood game from the opening day as an example, I read that the ball was in play for 36 mins.
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You'd never get home for your tea, unless they cut it to 35 in-play minutes per half. Sometime, set your stopwatch and monitor how much time the ball is dead - you'll be amazed (ATS may know the answer.....)
Taking the Southend-Borehamwood game from the opening day as an example, I read that the ball was in play for 36 mins.
While I understand that the 2 figures stated seems very little play, most of the deficit from those stats come from throw in, goal kicks etc, stop clock would only be used for the incidents that a ref would add time on, injuries, subs, excessive arguing with the ref etc. Rugby is only a total of 10 mins shorter but is 99.9% done within 2 hours, including HT.
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The first point I would wish to make is that 'tactical injuries' are far less prevalent in the Women's game.
If a player is 'injured' and doesn't get up almost immediately then they really are injured. In fact sometimes players have to be almost instructed to sit down.
Sadly I suspect that this scenario will cease to be far too soon.
In terms of additional time I guess it's a judgement call. Normally the watch wouldn't be stopped for every throw in.
However if the ball is hoofed into the next County I would as I would if it seemed that the clearance into touch may be being utilised to eat up time.
The Referee is the sole arbiter of time and has recourse to sanctions, eg Yellow Card for Time Wasting with potential Red for repeat.
On a "parks" pitch I often search out the Captain and advise them that if their team want to play silly buggers I will stop my watch EVERY TIME the ball goes out. Unsurprisingly that often does the trick
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I think we already have seen the German women employing that tactic during the European Cup.
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Wrexham did it here last season, they called in "game management". referees are the issue, to soft, know the rules but don't know the game.
Onwards and upwards, three points tomorrow & hopefully the Welsh Postman Dai will get his finger out (wherever it is !) :-[
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So which 'Law' are you talking about please? There are 17
How would you suggest it were better dealt with?
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So which 'Law' are you talking about please? There are 17
How would you suggest it were better dealt with?
My view is anyone breaking the law should be punished, by the officials, dont you agree Phil?
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Yeah but it's a fine line between acceptable delay and time wasting and a Refereeing judgement call.
My tolerance will be different to yours and we'll both be different to for example Pete Hughes
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Probably off topic but I thought the referee tried hard today. No complaints from me.
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I actually think, to be a ref in this league you have to be vertically challenged.
Come pantomime time in a few months they will probably be moonlighting in Theatres up and down the country.
Hi Ho…..
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The ref was the least of our worries today
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This evening, without trying too hard, I played seven minutes and forty eight seconds in stoppage time due almost entirely to cramp miraculously recovered from when it became apparent that I had stopped my watch and the habit of the side a goal up to hoof the ball as far out of play as possible
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https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/aug/25/time-wasting-needs-tackling-manchester-united-liverpool (https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/aug/25/time-wasting-needs-tackling-manchester-united-liverpool)
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Some good points in an entertaining article. Personally I would consider making it a sending off offence when a player picks up the ball after a goal and refuses to give it back to an opposition team desperate to kick off again quickly, that's the sort of behaviour that can easily spark a brawl.
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Once the goal has been scored the referee should stop their watch until play resumes.
Hence this is actually NOT time wasting in any way.
BTW under which of the 17 laws would you propose to punish the (non) transgressor?
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Once the goal has been scored the referee should stop their watch until play resumes.
Hence this is actually NOT time wasting in any way.
BTW under which of the 17 laws would you propose to punish the (non) transgressor?
Law 18 !
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A splendid suggestion and a very useful Law.
Unfortunately the use of said Law is often frowned upon by the 'powers that be' and its use reflected in reductions in an officials mark for that game
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holding things up like this after goal certainly might disrupt a team's momentum though and is very provocative (and frustrating for supporters. By the same token, time is added on for fake injuries but they are, like delaying kickoff after a goal, about giving a teram time to regroup, and there is no possible doubt about the picking the ball up one - ungentlemanly conduct of the worst sort.
One thing I would like to know though is just how much discretion the referee has over time wasting and stoppages. There was a match against Blyth when the floodlights failed and one Alty supporter insisted that the time added on at the end of the half was less than the amount of time taken to get the lights back on. Understandable in a match against Blyth, but it does beg the question what else referees can do on their own initiative in a competitive match..
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In order of asking
The game cannot restart until the ball is on the Centre Spot and both teams are ready. The watch should be stopped when a goal is scored and restarted with play. IF players knew the Laws of the game they are playing they would recognise this fact and all the unseemly and ultimately pointless wrestling might stop.
The Referee is the sole arbiter of time and it it within their gift to play whatever amount of stoppage time they deem fit.
At our level this could be any length, I played about 9 minutes on Wednesday because of, IMO, some excessively agricultural clearances and some questionable attacks of cramp.
At the higher levels though they can find themselves somewhat pressured by TV Schedules etc.