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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Darren on November 19, 2008, 07:25:33 PM
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In another thread on here it was suggested Altrincham would not be able to handle a bigger crowd.
Now here's the question Why?
Not enough turnstiles 12 out of 13 were open last night and that became 13 to get every one for the delayed k.o. The turnstile operaters did a excellent job ensuring every one was in before kick off.
Not enough stewards i managed to have 22 on duty last night who all did an excellent job in difficult circumstances they even stayed to you lot were on your way home. Didn't cost the club a penny compare that to what i was told last night that just to open there ground Luton had to have 103 stewards on duty.
Please let us have your views so we can try and put things right.
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I think the point was not personnel Darren, more where they would stand.
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Stewards did a good job as they always do, at just gone 8pm it looked like there were hundreds at each turnstyle but once they opened it flowed pretty quickly. Think what was suggested was the bar and snack bar couldn’t handle that sort of crowd which is true unless you think its acceptable for people to be waiting 15+ mins ??? No ones having a go at any of the steward or volunteers who do an excellent job! Just pointing out a few problems with bigger crowds which could lead to future solutions.
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I think the point was not personnel Darren, more where they would stand.
Not having a dig here just want to know what or if we can do better for the future games. I think it looked more because most people stayed in the golf road and mauserleam area when we attacked the 20/20 there was plenty of room where the fans normally move round too.
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on a different note to the stewerds, for big games in the bar why dont we just serve bottle lager instead of pints, alot quicker to serve an the club will probly make more money,im not saying just serve lager n not bitter n cider, for the time to pull 2 pints you could of handed five people 2 bottles of larger???
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Good idea that i have heard mentioned a few times, maybe set a corner up for bottles only at £2.50 each you could get them out very quickly.
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on a different note to the stewerds, for big games in the bar why dont we just serve bottle lager instead of pints, alot quicker to serve an the club will probly make more money,im not saying just serve lager n not bitter n cider, for the time to pull 2 pints you could of handed five people 2 bottles of larger???
Err we don't run the bar i will let you suggest that to the excellnt Jenny Heslop and her staff
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you could use the corner to the left of the bar, 3 quid a bottle n have an offer of buy 2 for a fiver, if the club bought a big amount of bottled larger bet they could get bottles for 1.00 each ;)
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Well, it was me who sort of raised the initial point Darren and I was thinking of 2 things in particular.
But first of all I thought those involved who worked for the club yesterday did really well, it was obviously difficult. I saw Ian Cox for example manning the door at half time and wouldn't have doing his job. And the whole floodlight failure was taken in everyone's stride.
It just looks like a couple of things are problematic. One is these stupid gantries which are put up on the popular side thereby denying about 2 quarters od that stand unviewable as well as making segregation issues somewaht daft. i.e. If we were to play a bigger club we'd have to give them part of the pop side and more or less use the middle third as a sterile area, not ideal.
The snack bars - I'm sorry but these aren't quick enough, the serving facilities are too small, in effect only one person can order at a time, leading to huge queues. These queues then tail round immediately in front of where last night approxiamately 800 people were trying to get in late (and the emergency exits). Is there a case on occasions like this to let a burger fan pay to us to set up perhaps at the other end of the golf road? I can't believe that even if their had been one we wouldn't have sold all our food
I don't think it ideal having all the crowd having to congregate in that area for food toilets etc.
The Noel White Suite - again problematic. Obviously Jenny and Helen worked their socks off after being there during the day but 2 bar staff is not quick enough. It leads to a large crush in the bar and creates problems for people getting in (note- at half time perhaps open both doors?). Obviously last night was exceptional but it is often the case that we have the same problem at home games.
Whilst clearly the ideal solution would be a keen volunteer is there again not the case for advertising for bar staff for these games or ones where we expect slightly bigger crowds like Oxford? I can't believe that an extra bar hand paid about £40 for 5 hours work wouldn't have been able to make that back up in beer sales.
I think my point s that last night we had an extra 1000 or so people on top of our normal attendance and we made about as much money if there was only 1200 there. I would expect that for a number of them, their experience last night would've been a case of couldn't get in the bar, no chance of getting served and couldn't get owt to eat.
Also logistically, I'm not quite sure why we segregate fans and then let away supporters coaches drop of on the Golf Rd/Threshers bus stop (I know WE don't but you know what I mean).
I'm sure that if we were to draw say Stockport at home say, we'd hire lots and lots more of this stuff and again, it's no reflection on the people who worked last night who did superbly well but I think that we're mising out on income, making life a bit uncomfortable and at times dangerous.
Would you say that's fair?
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Thanks Ballers i say thats fare and will take your views on board. We have no say in where away coaches drop off there fans (Unless on police instructions) to be fare most clubs we play in the league know how are ground is set up.
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just a side note while were at it, can we please take the fences on the popular side down? we have played wrexham at home now and as has been stated the sh*tanta gantries (which i know have to be there) prevent people filling up right down to the end of the stand and there is somwhat of a crush for space when attacking the 20/20 end (more so on bigger games - oxford was really bad for this). just a thought....
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just a side note while were at it, can we please take the fences on the popular side down? we have played wrexham at home now and as has been stated the sh*tanta gantries (which i know have to be there) prevent people filling up right down to the end of the stand and there is somwhat of a crush for space when attacking the 20/20 end (more so on bigger games - oxford was really bad for this). just a thought....
I will ask the club can't see irt being a problem may have to leave one up near the 20/20 in case of adverse weather to give away fans cover (Only if we like them ;D)
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Just an addition to this thread and this is by no means a form of critisism, as ballers said, everyone who worked last night did very well.
In the exceptional circumstances such as last nights game and the occaisional big league game would it not be wise to not allow people who havnt paid to get in, into the bar before the game, or even vice versa - only let people from outside the ground in and once paid inside the ground you wouldnt be able to get a pre match drink.
The reason i say this is that it looked last night like there was a problem with the number of bar tickets due to the high demand (this wasnt the stewards fault to be fair). If there was only one access point then there wouldnt be a need to hand out bar passes and it would cut any mither out.
Not totally sure ive got what i was trying to say over that well but i know what i mean. :) Just a thought anyway.
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just a side note while were at it, can we please take the fences on the popular side down? we have played wrexham at home now and as has been stated the sh*tanta gantries (which i know have to be there) prevent people filling up right down to the end of the stand and there is somwhat of a crush for space when attacking the 20/20 end (more so on bigger games - oxford was really bad for this). just a thought....
I will ask the club can't see irt being a problem may have to leave one up near the 20/20 in case of adverse weather to give away fans cover (Only if we like them ;D)
thats the one causing the problems, and in truth we have managed for years without it (even letting the kidderminster fans into the golf road last year :o)
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Just an addition to this thread and this is by no means a form of critisism, as ballers said, everyone who worked last night did very well.
In the exceptional circumstances such as last nights game and the occaisional big league game would it not be wise to not allow people who havnt paid to get in, into the bar before the game, or even vice versa - only let people from outside the ground in and once paid inside the ground you wouldnt be able to get a pre match drink.
The reason i say this is that it looked last night like there was a problem with the number of bar tickets due to the high demand (this wasnt the stewards fault to be fair). If there was only one access point then there wouldnt be a need to hand out bar passes and it would cut any mither out.
Not totally sure ive got what i was trying to say over that well but i know what i mean. :) Just a thought anyway.
It was suggested but the club were trying to make as much money as possable and usually its your away fans on a midweek game that use the bar early i:e before 7pm
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Darren- Before i give my constructive critiscism you guys do an amazing job.
1. We needed more bar passes last night- considering we were expecting a huge crowd we were un prepard and lost money.
2. The issue with the turnstiles was not the amount open it was that there should have only been one concession/ Child one not just one adult one at each point which caused more queues.
3. The snack bar is far to slow which is a shame and has stopped me going there ( my life is too short) Not your fault Darren
Considering the pressure your guys were under last night they did a stunning job :D
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Wayne
There were two Adult only turnstiles at the opposite end of the Golf Road to the Catering facility in an attempt to speed up transit of spectators.
It was suggested during the run up to the match that access to the bar be from the inside only pre match. However, as Darren has said in an attempt to maximise potential income it was decided to allow access from the outside as well. In all honesty we could do with a bigger bar and more staff too or at least more than one access point from within the ground or more than one bar maybe but these are all wishful thinking.
Speaking personally I think that the Catering facility at the Golf Road end is very badly designed in terms of size, access and congestion so I'll agree with you on that one
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Now the dust has settled on one the club's most dramatic night's in it's long cup-fighting history I am glad we have landed on the one issue that matters most. The window on the new snack bar is too small!
Surely, as well as a bricklayer, a part-time club of the repute of Altrincham FC must have a window fitter, a plasterer and a painter and decorator who can make good this shocking lapse. And a little table at the side for the tomato sauce might help.
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on a different note to the stewerds, for big games in the bar why dont we just serve bottle lager instead of pints, alot quicker to serve an the club will probly make more money,im not saying just serve lager n not bitter n cider, for the time to pull 2 pints you could of handed five people 2 bottles of larger???
For people who like a decent pint that is a scandalous suggestion. I'd install a real ale or two like Grays and Woking. Bernard when bar manager was always on top of the pints at half time.
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I am a Building Control Surveyor and also have involvement with safety at sports grounds within my JD. I live miles away in Surrey but can happily give advice/guidance on these issues.
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Just an addition to this thread and this is by no means a form of critisism, as ballers said, everyone who worked last night did very well.
In the exceptional circumstances such as last nights game and the occaisional big league game would it not be wise to not allow people who havnt paid to get in, into the bar before the game, or even vice versa - only let people from outside the ground in and once paid inside the ground you wouldnt be able to get a pre match drink.
The reason i say this is that it looked last night like there was a problem with the number of bar tickets due to the high demand (this wasnt the stewards fault to be fair). If there was only one access point then there wouldnt be a need to hand out bar passes and it would cut any mither out.
Not totally sure ive got what i was trying to say over that well but i know what i mean. :) Just a thought anyway.
It was suggested but the club were trying to make as much money as possable and usually its your away fans on a midweek game that use the bar early i:e before 7pm
If that was the case Beez I think it would lead to a larger queue at the turnstiles as people would have to all come out of the bar 15mins b4 kick off and pay to get in. I think we do the small bar in the NWS as well as we realistically can, i.e. if it wasn't for halftime orders we'd have no chance, but a 3rd presence to complement Jenny and Helen has ben long overdue. On occasions in the past I know Hughesy, myself and one of the blokes on the mausoleum who I see all the time but don't actually know his name have stepped in but there must be loads of students/bar workers in the area who would do the occasional Saturday.
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And a little table at the side for the tomato sauce might help.
Yeh, if we're going into greater detail, a table for sundries including forks and serviettes is necessary. At the mooment Dawn takes the order, relays to person behind who passes her the food, she takes your money and then take sthe time to give you the fork and the serviette. All the while, even when 3 people are in there the next person can't help.
Devil's in the detail I'm afraid.
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I think the floodlights going out for twenty minutes followed by a distinct lack of pies in the catering lodge is something that should be investigated.
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We Would have had more hot food. But the advice of the club was Not to turn the chip fryers and pie warmer back on. Only the water,fridge and frezzer.
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if we are getting into details, perhaps the club shop should stock chocolate bars and cans etc and just sell hot food from the snack bar.
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We Would have had more hot food. But the advice of the club was Not to turn the chip fryers and pie warmer back on. Only the water,fridge and frezzer.
No wonder there were no pies left if that fiend frezzer thorley was turned on in there. I bet he was passing out with balti sweats. He's a big teaser you know, watch your chins.
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The ground is clearly geared up to comfortably cope with our usual gates of 1000-1500.
When the gate nearly doubles I think the club and all the volunteers cope admirably while lessons are learnt and suggestions always offered as to how to improve for next time.
I'm sure Manchester utd could do a lot better coping with the queues to get in and out.
I think the club needs to look at an away portakabin bar in the 20/20 end....could maybe double as a merchandise shop/snack bar.
Other good ideas suggested include the bottled beer sales and the club shop selling cans and chocolates and crisps (iobviously the snack bar can also sell these) but if you just want a can it may be quicker in the club shop and you could peruse the merchandise while buying your coke.
I think everyone expects queues when somewhere is busier than normal?
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Is there really an issue here or is it just that the more people you have in the ground the harder it is to please them all?
If we want bigger crowds we have to accept the consequences, if we start getting 2300 every week then some people will have to consider not trying to get in the ground 5 mins before kick off. Eventually we'll have more money to upgrade facilities to match the crowds etc and that will be that.
We'll get a massive crowd on new years day, and all the fans should be bothered about is getting in and giving the team the support they need. Any moaning about the bar and snack facilities is just pathetic. Try to remember the people that bring it together do it for free, we dont see them moaning.
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Am I alone in not enjoying the big games where we have big crowds as much as your everyday standard league match, always seems not quite live up to the hype and I worry about non alty fans causing bother. I'm not saying bring back the unibond biut we have a set up that accomodates about 2000 really well above that we are overstretched
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Am I alone in not enjoying the big games where we have big crowds as much as your everyday standard league match, always seems not quite live up to the hype and I worry about non alty fans causing bother. I'm not saying bring back the unibond biut we have a set up that accomodates about 2000 really well above that we are overstretched
I don't know about everyone else, but personally I think 3,000 in for a game under floodlights is brilliant. 900 to watch Histon punt for an hour and a half isn't my idea of fun. Plus, if we improve and grow as a club we can develop an infrastructure to deal with bigger crowds. I don't want to fear success because matchdays require more preparation and planning.
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If we ever did attract regular crowds in excess of 2,000 (hypothetical is not a big enough word here!) the problem would possibly solve itself to a large extent, since the extra revenue coming into the club would help to fund larger social and catering facilities.
Seeing as we're unlikely to increase our average attendances above the current level anytime soon it's not going to be a major issue. I think it would be desirable to extend/replace the current social club in the long term but this will require a lot of money and no shortage of hard work so it's not going to happen overnight.
The location of the new catering & toilet block is both a blessing and a pain. It's nice that the fans walk in through our new turnstiles and are immediately greeted with programme sellers and the snack bar. The club shop and bar are also in that same part of the ground and it means people have easy access to everything. However, at the same time there was the issue of queuing which meant that area got very overcrowded on Tuesday. In truth though, how many times is this likely to happen during the average season? It's not like it can be picked up and moved elsewhere so it looks like we've just got to bear with it for the time being.
It could be worse, look at Northwich who make no matchday income at all!
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Had no problems with the crowds in the 60s and 70s,so why would they not be able to handle a large crowd now?
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No, but health and safety, segregation, strerile areas between opposing supporters etc etc. Different world then, can't really compare it to football in the modern day.
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And a little table at the side for the tomato sauce might help.
Yeh, if we're going into greater detail, a table for sundries including forks and serviettes is necessary. At the mooment Dawn takes the order, relays to person behind who passes her the food, she takes your money and then take sthe time to give you the fork and the serviette. All the while, even when 3 people are in there the next person can't help.
Devil's in the detail I'm afraid.
Ballers...please can we have suggested process maps & Gant charts prepared with immediate effect :D
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I can suggest a way for you to go Brian, yes! :D
Seriously, my point about the serving areas and the need for a 3rd bar hand in the NWS is something that needs to be looked at for all games, not just big matches.
I regularly shudder at the amount of people who can't get a drink in our bar at half time.
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Had no problems with the crowds in the 60s and 70s,so why would they not be able to handle a large crowd now?
Like has been said, different world.
Also, we had three snack bars then and the Red Robin Club for everyone before the game and at half time
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I think the snack bar should have been designed with two serving windows,one for food & drinks,one for drinks only.There are many fans
who just require a hot drink too warm them up at half time,especially on a cold winter's afternoon.I always used to get a drink at half time
from the old mobile snack bar but I have never had a drink yet from the new facility simply because it takes so long to get served.I wonder how many more people like myself just can't be bothered queing & I am talking about every home league game.We must be losing quite alot of lost revenue at all these matches.As I think as already been pointed out previously mabe a separate mobile facility just for drinks & snacks would be the answer.
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I am sat reading this thread through, and I can understand peoples frustrations at the queues etc. BUT for months, no years, now Darren has been asking for people to volunteer as stewards, all through the summer there were requests for people to help out in the snack bars, more recently there has been a call for someone to man the carpark at the back and nobody comes forward. All the ideas about an extra snack bar, extra bar, cold drinks and sweets in the shop etc. etc. are very good but we would need bodies to man them. Any volunteers?
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Why not just take a rent for the other Golf Road corner patch from an outside source,stipulating that they can only sell hot & cold
drinks plus light snacks, ie.choc bars,crisps,etc.I am sure that would keep everbody happy & I guess will help ease the congestion
in the other corner.Am only thinking of the best solution to these problems that have been highlighted.
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I am sat reading this thread through, and I can understand peoples frustrations at the queues etc. BUT for months, no years, now Darren has been asking for people to volunteer as stewards, all through the summer there were requests for people to help out in the snack bars, more recently there has been a call for someone to man the carpark at the back and nobody comes forward. All the ideas about an extra snack bar, extra bar, cold drinks and sweets in the shop etc. etc. are very good but we would need bodies to man them. Any volunteers?
In fairness, this doesn't have that much to do with volunteers. There are enough people in the snack bar, it's just there is only space to speak to one of them.
Likewise with the bar, if somebody would be prepared to work the bar from 12-6 then great but people come to Alty to watch football. In the bar case it would be economically viable to have an extra paid hand.
We are of course on the right track to have our own catering facilities. There are teething problems however that suggest we are not making as much out of them as we can, and likewise the bar.