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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: Darren on January 02, 2007, 11:00:54 AM
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I am always looking at ways of improving the stewarding at moss lane, If your happy with it please tick the right box if you tick the could improve box please state what changes you would like to see.
This is a genuine poll
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Stewarding is exxcellent....let's just keep it real and where there is no reason to alienate away supporters lets use common sense.....allowing away fans to use the cover on wet days for example or opening up segregation when there is clearly no reason for it.
Keep up the excellent work lads (and lasses)
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Dont really see the stewards which in itself is a positive statement. Stewards should be seen and not heard unless problems arise.
keep up the good work.
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As far as I'm concerned ALL games should be segregated at Moss Lane, not our fault if clubs only bring a few fans ? We are segregated in most of our games so should work both ways.
I am also bitter and twisted and although its not away fans fault I reckon if we are not offered covering at other clubs grounds than why should they ? Some say we should as we are 'better than them' but sod it. Treat others as they treat you.
Of course the banning of Musical Instruments would be a big plus towards what I think of stewards ;D
The one thing that worries me with the stewarding is that it sometimes seems to be a seperate entity to the club. YES you are all volunteers, and we are very grateful but if the club asks you to do something then it should be done with little fuss eg: the Bar door fiasco that got blown out of all proportion.
The above IS NOT having a go at the stewards but an honest observation (as asked for) and if any steward would like to reply via private message than please do.
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Need to be able to get behind the bar quicker at quarter to three when the till breaks down and we're all choking for a pint - but, other than that, fine! :D ;) ;D
::)
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First of all I think the stewards do a brilliant job, they are volunteers for an essential task. Nobody should ever forget that.
I also think that home games should be segregated, particularly if we are segregated at their ground.
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I think our stewards do a grand job as well.
I also believe that all games should be segregated. It saves any hassle, and any "I told you so" when balloons like Wozza B Red from Alfreton decide to be mouthy when walking past the agitated home fans.
FGR for example, we had no roof there and wouldn't have been able to get one had it rained, its an eye for an eye.
We are not in the Unibond anymore, we are in a big league where segragation is the norm. We need to think like a big club.
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i'd say for the likes of gray whom we should extend a warm welcome to and mabee york i don't see a problem, there is no history of trouble infact quite the opposite with these clubs, they should be welcomed and allowed shelter... just not our bit of the popular side!!!
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We have offered shelter to clubs when the weather has been bad but due to some of the large away following it has not been possible.
My policy when i take charge of stewarding a match is that i want everybody to enjoy themselves but you can't please everyone on some occasions.
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agreed and i'd rathe have the home fans happy than the aay fans, sounds harsh but the home fans come back week in week out its the way it is
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Andy, your point is precisely the one I was trying to highlight.
We have good banter with York, UKPhil is a top man and we have never had much bother there.
However York have the potential to bring a right firm, its just that they don't see Alty as much to battle with (which is right!).
However you never know who is amongst a crowd of 300 away fans. A tense decision (last minute pen at Oxford anyone) and the atmosphere changes. With no segregation you could have an FC United (the family club) repeat.
With no segregation there is always the clowns who decide not to change ends and stand right next to the home fans.
Cut out all the hassle and segregate every game I say. I would never complain about it an an away game.
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fair play ecky i see your point
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Rubbish! ;D
Only joking. I don't know how many men are on the car park during games but that would be my only real area of concern with various dubious characters going through there during games on occasions.
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Andy, your point is precisely the one I was trying to highlight.
We have good banter with York, UKPhil is a top man and we have never had much bother there.
However York have the potential to bring a right firm, its just that they don't see Alty as much to battle with (which is right!).
However you never know who is amongst a crowd of 300 away fans. A tense decision (last minute pen at Oxford anyone) and the atmosphere changes. With no segregation you could have an FC United (the family club) repeat.
With no segregation there is always the clowns who decide not to change ends and stand right next to the home fans.
Cut out all the hassle and segregate every game I say. I would never complain about it an an away game.
Thanks for the kind words Mark, and you are dead right.
If we are still doing well we could potentially bring anything up to 1,000 fans to Moss Lane in February (although I reckon 600-700 would be more realistic). If that is the case then, inevitably, there might be some people who you wouldn't want to be stood next to in an unsegregated environment. And the same is true of any club in a following of that size. Take Exeter for example - great bunch of people, really friendly, but with a small minority of idiots who pick on away supporters when they go down to Devon. Not all away supporters (not Alty from what I've heard anyway!) but some. And you have also experienced some nastiness away at Oxford this season which I am certain was partly the fault of some of our fans who had caused some bother at the previous Oxford home game and who had "woken up the beast".
Of course me and a number of mates are coming across for a cracking day out and Alty should make a load of money in gate and bar receipts on that particular afternoon! I am really looking forward to it, it should be one of the best days of the season.
And - one last thing. I also agree with Gaz about facilities for away supporters. We made you stand on an open terrace and so I won't be bleating on the internet when I have to do the same at Moss Lane, what a bloody cheek if I did!
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Wouldn't put it passed you to moan though ;D
I presume you'll be taking in 'The Famous Bridge" after the game ? What a Place... Infact its THE PLACE !
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I presume you'll be taking in 'The Famous Bridge" after the game ? What a Place... Infact its THE PLACE !
I have a duet booked in with Market Dave on the Karaoke.
"I Got You Babe".
:D
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Rubbish! ;D
Only joking. I don't know how many men are on the car park during games but that would be my only real area of concern with various dubious characters going through there during games on occasions.
The stewards man the entrance to the car park before every game to ensure those who have reserved parking get there space once all on the list are in we leave it alone but do patrols at regular intervals because we have had a few break ins on some matchdays.
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I have a duet booked in with Market Dave on the Karaoke.
"I Got You Babe".
:D
waste of time!
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It is not necessary to segregate the usual 50ish good natured away fans. I have often enjoyed chatting with them in the pub before games and see no reason why this should not continue in the stadium. Weymouth is a perfect example of how a game should be. Segregation is only needed when there is a real chance of people causing problems. These are usually ex league clubs who are likely to bring several hundred fans. In that case it would be impossible to enforce segregation as a handful of stewards would not be capable of doing it. Do we really want to be like a league club with police causing long delays while they search ten year olds for knives. Segregation should only be used when needed. It should not become the norm.
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So whats your plan then Baldrick when it goes wrong?
Lets use Crawley as an example. They only take about 50 away from home, however they do have a group of about 10 "lads" who enjoy a bit of a scrap now and then.
We don't segregate as they are only bringing 50 and there is trouble, a few families are caught up in it, an old chap who has been coming for years gets knocked over. You get the picture.
The cries on here would be "why wasn't it segregated", "why didn't the stewards do x or Y".
We are in a big league now, this is not the Unibond where the 4 Vauxhall fans wouldn't dare say anything.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for chatting in the bar before hand and the like but why tempt problems?
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It is not necessary to segregate the usual 50ish good natured away fans. I have often enjoyed chatting with them in the pub before games and see no reason why this should not continue in the stadium. Weymouth is a perfect example of how a game should be. Segregation is only needed when there is a real chance of people causing problems. These are usually ex league clubs who are likely to bring several hundred fans. In that case it would be impossible to enforce segregation as a handful of stewards would not be capable of doing it. Do we really want to be like a league club with police causing long delays while they search ten year olds for knives. Segregation should only be used when needed. It should not become the norm.
I don't necessarily think that segregation should be interpreted as some sort of heavy handed approach. I'm all for a friendly atmosphere, and visiting fans should always be welcome in the bar, but we need to be a professionally run club.
I don't see how our segregation policy has caused long delays, and I'd like to know how many kids have been searched for knives... ;) Has segregation and alert stewarding at Alty really wrecked the atmosphere? I don't think so.
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The arguement of delays in a non starter. Nearly ALL games we go to are segregated and I have never been stood outside for ages, and I bet I'm the only one that gets searched but thats because I take a bag in (and fair enough)
The fact it is segregation STOPS any needs for major searches as fans are kept apart anyway.
I say ALL games should be segregated. Better to be safe than sorry and as has already been said we in the top flight of non league football and not the Unibond. Anyone can speak to the fans before the game in a pub if they want (as you do) but why would you want \ needs to stand next to or speak to opposing fans DURING a game ? Before and After probably fair enough but during seems a little odd.
FGR brought 12 fans and they managed to exchange words after the game in the bar, who says that couldn't have happened during the match ? Maybe at half time when we swapped ends for instance ?
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If anything it adds to the atmosphere! cant see many clubs left in this league where there isn’t potential for something to go wrong, St Albans, Weymuff, Gravesend and maybe one or two more. As long as we allow away supporters into the bar and treat them with respect we are being as friendly as we can in this league.
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Don't get me wrong...I said when there is clearly no need for it...I didn't lay down a criteria of only 50 crawley fans. If there is any doubt then segregate and i know this will apply to nearly all conference matches but I'd like to think Alty do whatever we can to be seen as a sensible professional club and we have a succesful record in this regard....obviously leave FGR fans in the rain even if there's only 20 of them though.
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How can you let away fans in the bar, drink with them, chat with them then tell them they are not welcome to stand under cover and they must go and stand in the rain. Altrincham is not equipped to deal with trouble. If fans wanted to cause problems they could easily do it with or without segregation.
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How can you let away fans in the bar, drink with them, chat with them then tell them they are not welcome to stand under cover and they must go and stand in the rain. Altrincham is not equipped to deal with trouble. If fans wanted to cause problems they could easily do it with or without segregation.
Because that's the way it happens everywhere else. How many times have we've gone places, been allowed to have drinks etc, but then had to be segregated? So what?? Every club in this league has segregation (as far as I know). Everyone accepts it - no opposing fan would be immature enough to say "they let me drink with them, but they won't let me stand with them" and cause a fuss. Why? 1. because that's just the way things are, 2. the majority of fans are mature enough to see why there's segregation and not get upset about it.
if the opposing fans want to cause trouble, I'm sure it's a lot easier for the stewards to deal with it if they're contained as opposed to all hell breaking loose amongst both sets of fans.
I honestly can't see the point you're trying to make.
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Judging by the amount of sniping you're doing on here Baldrick, I'd suggest that in the event of your "all fans together in lovely cuddly non league world" love-in going tits up, you'd be on here at 5:04 asking "Where were the Stewards?"
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My point is the stewards would not have a clue how to deal with serious crowd trouble. Altrincham fans have never been troublemakers and the club is not a target for opposing fans. I don't see why people on here are worried about this. If any of you have ever watched England away you will know that most of the trouble has been at games where foreign police have herded us together instead of letting us wander around freely. Segregation creates a pack mentality.
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All I can say to that is... naive ::)
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My point is the stewards would not have a clue how to deal with serious crowd trouble. Altrincham fans have never been troublemakers and the club is not a target for opposing fans. I don't see why people on here are worried about this. If any of you have ever watched England away you will know that most of the trouble has been at games where foreign police have herded us together instead of letting us wander around freely. Segregation creates a pack mentality.
I do not believe that segregation creates a pack mentality. Where I have seen trouble at Alty matches (home and away) its been when the fans haven't been kept apart. It only takes one person to start a fight, regardless of the numbers.
You cannot compare hundreds or maybe thousands of England fans "herded together" with a couple of hundred people directed to a certain part of a ground at a Conference match. The two are totally different things. If the two are similar, there would be countless problems at matches up and down the country, as has happened with England fans abroad...
And there is a big difference between having a pre match drink in an enclosed space to the emotions of a match where you have a terrace to let off steam and quite possibly judgment affected by the alcohol which has come from that pre match drink.
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I don't see why people on here are worried about this.
Maybe people on here have first hand experience of being assaulted at unsegregated games.
Did you stand at Redditch knowing you were about to be smacked as home fans circled you?
Did you watch the young lads get assaulted at the FC United game?
I stand by my opinion that its better to be safe than sorry. I expect the protection of segregation when I go to places like Aldershot and see no reason why we should do any different at our ground. The time I went and it was not segregated (2-0 trophy win) was very scary indeed.
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No i have never had a problem like that but i believe FC United should be closed down. I absolutely hate them.
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My point is the stewards would not have a clue how to deal with serious crowd trouble. Altrincham fans have never been troublemakers and the club is not a target for opposing fans. I don't see why people on here are worried about this. If any of you have ever watched England away you will know that most of the trouble has been at games where foreign police have herded us together instead of letting us wander around freely. Segregation creates a pack mentality.
Stewards not noing how to cope well come and join us and tell me how its done. Since i have been chief steward i have had to deal with alot of different incidents i:e fc utd which was dealt with swiftley, Man utd anti glazier march on to the pitch shown on national tv and with are Nvq accessor at that game his words were biggar clubs would have panicked with that.. There are ways and means of dealing with different incidents.
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The stewards do a great job but i don't believe any non league stewards would be able to handle serious crowd problems like Millwall at Luton 1985 or the Hillsborough incident.
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If we had crowds similar to those incidents, then we would have more stewards and probably a police presence.
You're contradicting yourself. If you're insisting that non-league stewards can't cope with any sort of trouble, why do you want non-segregation which would only increase the probability of trouble??
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The stewards do a great job but i don't believe any non league stewards would be able to handle serious crowd problems like Millwall at Luton 1985 or the Hillsborough incident.
How likely are we to see events of those magnitudes (which happened in the 1980s!) at Alty? Also, I would say we have a stewarding and crowd control set up more in line with the Football League than non-league.
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Baldrick,
Why don't you come and have a chat with either Darren or I at a home match about this.
I think I can see what you're trying to say but have to conclude that you are (a) missing the point somewhat and (b) being quite disrespectful to the Stewarding Staff.
Re your assertion that we /they couldn't cope with 'real trouble' yes if you're talking about bother on the Millwall, Birmingham City, Leeds etc level then given our current manning levels we probably couldn't......however if we were to get a match where it was obvious that the potential for bother was there then we would do exactly what we have always done that is get advice and assistance in.
Fortunately we haven't had large amounts of fuss at Moss Lane recently but I would have to advise you that whatever situations have occurred we have in the huge majority of cases been commended on our response either in dealing with the situation ourselves or in containing things until the arrival of the Constabulary. Our handling of the FCUM pre season situation for example was generally considered by the Police Officers who interviewed me after the event to be more than adequate.
So I'll repeat the invitation to come and have a chat. - your comments are of course very valid and we always welcome constructive comments but I think that maybe your point is not really in relation to what I believe Darren was trying to get at in his original posting.
Cheers
Phil
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Thanks to everyone who has voted and left a reply it has been very intresting reading all the posts and getting different opions.
Thank you
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stewarding at the f.c united match was great. they dealt with the problem quickly and efficiently. well done to all of thm. glad we have such decent stewards, which is totally different to some other grounds. we can all watch the matches in peace knowin that the stewardsa are there and, after seeing them in action, capable of dealing with such situations as f.c united. thanks again, and a pat on the back to you all. keep up the good work