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[Hamilton]

and worked up to the Premier league, how would our attendances have compared to Wigan's?

Wigan's average attendances
1995 - 1,748
1997 - 3,899
2000 - 7,007
2005 - 11,563
2012 - 18,634

My guess is that we would have something similar thanks to the 2 noisy neighbours.

[York Alty]

far too many permutations to speculate meaningfully.  On the basis of very little geographic distance, neighbours I can't see averages any betters than wigans.

[Timperley The Best]

even if we got in to the  championship or above we wouldnt get many more than 4 or 5 thousand home fans imo

[SW]

My view is that had we gained league status in 79-80 we would have made a good fist of it and probably got into div 3 pretty quickly which I think would have been our level then, both on and off the pitch. That run in which denied us again in (was it 91-2?) was probably to the good, the game was changing then with TV starting to take over and I honestly think we would have struggled massively to get the crowds/long term interest and generate the finance needed, we could easily have gone under I think.

[JDN]

My view is that had we gained league status in 79-80 we would have made a good fist of it and probably got into div 3 pretty quickly which I think would have been our level then, both on and off the pitch. That run in which denied us again in (was it 91-2?) was probably to the good, the game was changing then with TV starting to take over and I honestly think we would have struggled massively to get the crowds/long term interest and generate the finance needed, we could easily have gone under I think.

the second bit is rubbish

[SW]

Why? Look at Wimbledon struggling now in league 2, with gates we would not achieve, the cost of being a league club is massive, so much more so than the Conference Prem, just the admin, the security measures/stewarding, not to mention the costs of upgrading the stadium with digital turnstiles, CCTV, Police control room, holding cells, larger dressing rooms for bigger squads, disabled facilities, female official changing rooms, it is a massive expenditure.

I'd love to see Alty in the league, I really would and thought back in the 70s and 80s that I would do one day, I just think that our chance was then, the game is different now and it is much harder to get fans to follow small teams thanks to Mr Murdoch.

[SW]

Oh, and the need for another 850 seats somewhere.

[JDN]

But all that would have been done in the early eightys when we had more resources as a non league club than many league clubs at the time

So why would we go bust now?

Crewe is a better comparison

Or are you suggesting after 30 years as a league club we would only be getting crowds of 800?

[SW]

We might have established ourselves as a league club back then but my point is I don't think we would have done later, or today for that matter. Sad as it is, Alty is not a football town, plus we are too close to two successful Premier League sides. I'm not knocking anything, just being a realist.

[Timperley The Best]

We might have established ourselves as a league club back then but my point is I don't think we would have done later, or today for that matter. Sad as it is, Alty is not a football town, plus we are too close to two successful Premier League sides. I'm not knocking anything, just being a realist.

not a football town ?its hardly  a rugby town

[Baldrick]

Wigan have a much bigger catchment area than Altrincham. In the early 80's Enfield and Altrincham both had teams that could have easily been mid table third division class. Altrincham are still alive and well but look at Enfield, they are playing infront of less than a hundred people in a league most people have never heard of. Long term success will always bring increased crowds, but there is a limit to how big a club can grow. Wigan couldn't even sell their allocation of tickets yesterday. They had about 21,000 at Wembley. That is as big as they can get, and when they are relegated, which they will be within the next few years, they will struggle to get half that. They will drop down the divisions and end up like Wimbledon. Altrincham live within their means and don't gamble on success by spending what they can't afford. Some of the decisions the club makes seem strange to me, like spending money on new floodlights and toilets instead of improving the team. But the club will survive for future generations of fans to enjoy.

[OldhamAlty]

Wigan have a much bigger catchment area than Altrincham. In the early 80's Enfield and Altrincham both had teams that could have easily been mid table third division class. Altrincham are still alive and well but look at Enfield, they are playing infront of less than a hundred people in a league most people have never heard of. Long term success will always bring increased crowds, but there is a limit to how big a club can grow. Wigan couldn't even sell their allocation of tickets yesterday. They had about 21,000 at Wembley. That is as big as they can get, and when they are relegated, which they will be within the next few years, they will struggle to get half that. They will drop down the divisions and end up like Wimbledon. Altrincham live within their means and don't gamble on success by spending what they can't afford. Some of the decisions the club makes seem strange to me, like spending money on new floodlights and toilets instead of improving the team. But the club will survive for future generations of fans to enjoy.

The money for the new toilets mostly came from a Football Foundation grant, which presumably had to go on infrastructure. Apart from that this post is spot on.

[Bob]

First of all, comparisons with Wigan nowadays are wrong.  Wigan is a much bigger town with cheaper land, they had Dave Whelan's millions and also the clout of the Rugby League club (who are traditionally more popular than the football club) when dealing with the planners, council etc. for the new stadium. Without the stadium, Wigan wouldn't be getting five figure crowds.

We were in a better state in 1980 than we were in 1991.  Better crowds, a stronger boardroom, more financially secure, less stringent ground regulations.  There was more momentum, too.

For 1991, Scarborough and Barnet are good markers.  They both had to spend a fortune on doing their grounds up and went full time.  The grant structure and League funding in those days wasn't as generous either.  Both ended up with massive problems early on, and I suspect we would have had the same.

Without a mega rich sugar daddy, I think we would have been another Bury, Stockport, Rochdale, Wigan (before Whelan) at best.

[markecky]

Wigan have a much bigger catchment area than Altrincham. In the early 80's Enfield and Altrincham both had teams that could have easily been mid table third division class. Altrincham are still alive and well but look at Enfield, they are playing infront of less than a hundred people in a league most people have never heard of. Long term success will always bring increased crowds, but there is a limit to how big a club can grow. Wigan couldn't even sell their allocation of tickets yesterday. They had about 21,000 at Wembley. That is as big as they can get, and when they are relegated, which they will be within the next few years, they will struggle to get half that. They will drop down the divisions and end up like Wimbledon. Altrincham live within their means and don't gamble on success by spending what they can't afford. Some of the decisions the club makes seem strange to me, like spending money on new floodlights and toilets instead of improving the team. But the club will survive for future generations of fans to enjoy.

The money for the new toilets mostly came from a Football Foundation grant, which presumably had to go on infrastructure. Apart from that this post is spot on.

The floodlights also had to be upgraded as they were becoming unsafe, quite old and needed to be a higher power.

Apart from the floodlights and the toilets every penny has always been spent on the team.

You've got to provide some level of facilities if you want people to come.


Did you go yesterday Baldrick?

[Baldrick]

Yes i was at Wembley. Wigan deserved their win but the unsold tickets should have been given to Millwall instead of the prawn sandwich brigade. I seem to remember Torquay upgraded their floodlights for less than half what Altrincham paid.