Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Jimmy]

And the fact that certain fans from the club concerned are also happy to take the piss over Munich etc

To be fair that is the case visa versa

[Jimmy Hill]

The Taylor Report found that the main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control

- that finding was brushed under the carpet by both police and government until September 2012

Hmmm, I've always thought that anyone with more than a passing interest in football, and what happened at Hillsborough, was well aware of what the Taylor Report said.

The findings were widely reported in newspapers at the time and have featured in many books and documentaries. David Conn's 'The Beautiful Game', published in 2005 has a whole chapter based entirely on the Taylor Report in which he explains exactly how the tragedy unfolded.

Jimmy McGovern's 1996 TV drama on Hillsborough highlighted the role the police played in the disaster and was very popular.

Only The Sun blamed Liverpool fans and this was in the week immediately after the disaster. In 2004 they apologised and said that Liverpool fans were not to blame.

The Taylor Report is also freely available on the internet and on many government websites.

If the government did try to brush the findings under the carpet they did a pretty terrible job of it!

[GB Alty]

The point I am making is that neither police or government accepted any blame or responsibility based on the Taylor report findings

They waited until the Hillsborough Independent Panel published it's findings in September 2012 before saying sorry. And still no police officer has faced any criminal conviction?

To answer your question, maybe this is the reason why it remains in the public consciousness more so than other tragedies?

[Jimmy Hill]

The point I am making is that neither police or government accepted any blame or responsibility based on the Taylor report findings

They waited until the Hillsborough Independent Panel published it's findings in September 2012 before saying sorry. And still no police officer has faced any criminal conviction?

To answer your question, maybe this is the reason why it remains in the public consciousness more so than other tragedies?

I think that's definitely the case - we do hear about Hillsborough more than any other tragedy due to the circumstances.

What's interesting is that the act of remembrance is being used as a campaigning tool. What's so special about the 25th anniversary? Games weren't postponed by 7 minutes on the one year anniversary, or the ten year anniversary or the twenty year anniversary.

Hillsborough remembrances are no longer really about remembering the victims - they're part of a political campaign. This isn't to say anything about whether this campaign is justified (it probably is) but more of an observation about the use of remembrance as a way to promote an agenda.

[Hamilton]

It's interesting that the further we move away in time from Hillsborough the more remembrance of it there is.

There hasn't been this escalation of remembrance for other tragedies e.g. Bradford, Ibrox etc. 

Or Heysel.

Very true and i agree with your sentiment.

to be fair the other tragedies you mention weren't caused by police negligence and then covered up by both corrupt police and goverment

True, but the Taylor report was published in 1990 cited police failures as the most important reason for why the disaster happened. This fact has been known for over 20 years so it doesn't really explain the increase in remembrance. Equally, I'm not sure the fact there was an attempted cover-up can explain it either.

The fact that there was a cover-up doesn't make the tragedy any more tragic and shouldn't really be cause for ever increasing acts of ostentatious public remembrance.

Totally agree with these and also note the double standards in the Liverpool fans' attitude to Munich and lack of remembrance of Heysel.

[Jimmy]

The Liverpool fans attitude towards Munich although out of order is not relevant that's like saying if city had disaster there should be no minutes silance because of number of chants in poor taste by a section of their support

[taxi Phil]

I don't support either Liverpool or Man Utd, I would just like to show respect to 96 people who were killed at a football match

Tragedy is not a competition

The most sensible post you've made this year, and I agree 100% with it.

[York Alty]

As an aside be prepared for a lot of Hillsborough coverage.  There are the new Inquests to be held, the outcome of which will possibly knock on to Sheffield Wednesday FC and the local authority for a lack of a Safety Certificate.  The FA themselves will be up for question as match organisers, as will the Ambulance service.  The biggest political row could well be about the South Yorkshire Police policies, practices and management during the game, after the game and the subsequent 25 years. That will inevitably, in my view, pull into focus their policing of other events in their patch around that time.

I agree there should be remembrance of Heysel, Bradford, Ibrox etc.  These don't have the political baggage but that should not be relevant.  Everybody who goes along to watch a few people kick a ball about has a right to watch that, then go home in one piece.

[Beaver]

The point I am making is that neither police or government accepted any blame or responsibility based on the Taylor report findings

They waited until the Hillsborough Independent Panel published it's findings in September 2012 before saying sorry. And still no police officer has faced any criminal conviction?

To answer your question, maybe this is the reason why it remains in the public consciousness more so than other tragedies?

I think that's definitely the case - we do hear about Hillsborough more than any other tragedy due to the circumstances.

What's interesting is that the act of remembrance is being used as a campaigning tool. What's so special about the 25th anniversary? Games weren't postponed by 7 minutes on the one year anniversary, or the ten year anniversary or the twenty year anniversary.

Hillsborough remembrances are no longer really about remembering the victims - they're part of a political campaign. This isn't to say anything about whether this campaign is justified (it probably is) but more of an observation about the use of remembrance as a way to promote an agenda.

Its the first significant anniversary since the reality of what happened at Hillsborough was acknowledged by the authorities and the highest institutions of the land. Its the first significant anniversary since the families of 96 people were allowed to finally complete their grieving process knowing that their loved ones were no longer held in suspicion of causing their own deaths.

I dont really get what your agenda is with Hillsborough. I think you're talking nonsense suggesting that its not about remembering the deaths of 96 people and honouring their lives. The Hillsborough remembrance movement (if you can call it that) is dedicated to the lives of its victims more than anything similar.

Just get to the ground late if its such an issue for you. When there's a minutes silence I doubt many people will stand there on the terraces and stands around the country and think about the political campaign. They'll think of the 96 people crushed to death in horrific circumstances at a football match through no fault of their own.

[markecky]

Apologies if it's stated somewhere but is it being done in our league?

[GB Alty]

Apologies if it's stated somewhere but is it being done in our league?

it should be

[markecky]

It should be at every FA affiliated game at every level if they want to mark it.

You can't just do the top five divisions, it's like saying that football fans opinions don't matter below that.

[wayno]

It should be at every FA affiliated game at every level if they want to mark it.

You can't just do the top five divisions, it's like saying that football fans opinions don't matter below that.

great point

[York Alty]

It should be at every FA affiliated game at every level if they want to mark it.

You can't just do the top five divisions, it's like saying that football fans opinions don't matter below that.

correct.

[Jimmy Hill]

The point I am making is that neither police or government accepted any blame or responsibility based on the Taylor report findings

They waited until the Hillsborough Independent Panel published it's findings in September 2012 before saying sorry. And still no police officer has faced any criminal conviction?

To answer your question, maybe this is the reason why it remains in the public consciousness more so than other tragedies?

I think that's definitely the case - we do hear about Hillsborough more than any other tragedy due to the circumstances.

What's interesting is that the act of remembrance is being used as a campaigning tool. What's so special about the 25th anniversary? Games weren't postponed by 7 minutes on the one year anniversary, or the ten year anniversary or the twenty year anniversary.

Hillsborough remembrances are no longer really about remembering the victims - they're part of a political campaign. This isn't to say anything about whether this campaign is justified (it probably is) but more of an observation about the use of remembrance as a way to promote an agenda.

Its the first significant anniversary since the reality of what happened at Hillsborough was acknowledged by the authorities and the highest institutions of the land. Its the first significant anniversary since the families of 96 people were allowed to finally complete their grieving process knowing that their loved ones were no longer held in suspicion of causing their own deaths.

I dont really get what your agenda is with Hillsborough. I think you're talking nonsense suggesting that its not about remembering the deaths of 96 people and honouring their lives. The Hillsborough remembrance movement (if you can call it that) is dedicated to the lives of its victims more than anything similar.

Just get to the ground late if its such an issue for you. When there's a minutes silence I doubt many people will stand there on the terraces and stands around the country and think about the political campaign. They'll think of the 96 people crushed to death in horrific circumstances at a football match through no fault of their own.

No one has ever blamed the people that died, even The Sun didn't go that far. The people who were blamed were the ones who allegedly got there late and were drunk - we now this not to be true, but it shouldn't really effect the grieving process.

My issue is that I think it's over sentimental and mawkish. The FA are also leaving 96 seats free at each semi-final and Liverpool aren't even playing!

What happened at Hillsborough was awful and Liverpool fans were not to blame. However, I don't think this gives you a blank cheque to insist upon ever increasing displays of public grief.

Delaying a game by seven minutes doesn't help remember those who died anymore than a single minute's silence. Grief is important but it's also important not to wallow in it.