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[TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe]

from wiki:
The 2006–2007 season saw Sinnott steer Farsley  to a third promotion in four seasons. Despite finishing fifth in the Conference North, Lee lead the club to victory in the play offs ensuring Farsley Celtic's first ever appearance in the top flight of Non-League. In the play off campaign, Farsley beat favourites Kettering Town in the semi final, before going on to beat Hinckley United in the final played at Burton Albion's Pirelli Stadium. In the final Farsley Celtic had been 3–2 down with just over ten minutes remaining before two late goals saw a remarkable comeback and a 4–3 victory.


Hypothetical question and a big IF........ suppose Farsley didn't score those two late goals in the playoff final, and didn't get promoted in 2007 - would Lee have even been on the shortlist for Altrincham manager? OK, so nobody can knock his ability as manager at a lower level (as shown by his success in the Northern Premier League and first division), but his record in the Blue Square North and Premier is hardly outstanding - finishing 5th and scraping through to the conference national by the smallest of margins, then going on to be relegated the next season. Has his reputation as a decent manager at this level been built on those two late goals or am I being too harsh? Can' t help but thinking if he was a top manager he would still be at Bradford PA.

A critic could write the same words about Graham Heathcote at Alty in 2004/05 & 2005/06 (but we were reprieved)!

And it's rather unfair to blame Lee Sinnott entirely for Farsley's relegation at the conclusion of the 2007/08 Conference season, as he left the club to move to Port Vale in November 2007.

[Bob]

The job was advertised, Sinnott applied for it, and he was selected from a number of people who wanted it. It was generally received (on here anyway) as a solid, logical appointment. Talking now about what Sinnott did before he came here achieves little in my view.

[fuertes]

Firstly, it wasn't Gary Talbot who put the ball into the net after it rebounded back into play against Alfreton in 2004.
It was Eddie Hussin.
And we actually went on to lose that game 2-1 anyhow.

And I have to say that you are doing the 2004/05 team a disservice in your description of that valiant 3-2 victory at Kettering Town.
I can't believe that any Alty fan who attended that particular game would write about it in those terms.

I think that's precisely his point. You can make any hard-fought/close victory sound a bit sh*t if you're detemined to put that spin on it.

None of us talk about that game like that, so why should we start talking about Farsley's achievements in that manner?

Apologies to ATS if I've completely misrepresented what he was saying, by the way...

[TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe]

Apologies to ATS if I did misinterpret his point but how he worded his message meant that it wasn't how it read to me.

Perhaps Farsley were fortunate to achieve promotion via the play-offs or perhaps they warranted it?

Ultimately, we can't really reach a definitive answer as, unlike that Kettering match, we were not present to witness events for ourselves.

[Ballers]

Cult is right, hardly fair for us to rake over his past. What I would say is we knew what we were getting, that promotion with Farsley was all that was really a relevant achievement to his appointment, none of us thought we weere getting a guaranteed championship winning manager.

I said at the time I was underwhelmed and I still am really but to provide a little bit of balance we're not a million miles away from being effective. We just need a better target man, a fitter left back and just a little bit of nous to keep it tight and set up properly occasionally. The open style of football is admirable but 49 games in it hasn't got us in 5th position for any more than I think 2 weeks max.

I'm not so sure we'll ever win the league or go up quite like this tbh.

[York Alty]

I'm not so sure we'll ever win the league or go up quite like this tbh.

I'm sure we won't win the league or go up playing like this. 30 plus games without a clean sheet makes that impossible.

[bighairedmike]

I'm not so sure we'll ever win the league or go up quite like this tbh.

I'm sure we won't win the league or go up playing like this. 30 plus games without a clean sheet makes that impossible.

No it doesn't. You can win the league winning 6-1 every week.

[markecky]

Cult is right, hardly fair for us to rake over his past. What I would say is we knew what we were getting, that promotion with Farsley was all that was really a relevant achievement to his appointment, none of us thought we weere getting a guaranteed championship winning manager.

I said at the time I was underwhelmed and I still am really but to provide a little bit of balance we're not a million miles away from being effective. We just need a better target man, a fitter left back and just a little bit of nous to keep it tight and set up properly occasionally. The open style of football is admirable but 49 games in it hasn't got us in 5th position for any more than I think 2 weeks max.

I'm not so sure we'll ever win the league or go up quite like this tbh.

When you interview football managers it isn't just about what they have done in the past.

Its in the plans that they have and the way they answer your questions.  

It's also about their personal demands and their team budget demands

When I was on the board as supporters director I sat in on an interview with a manager with an excellent track record on a limited budget who had applied for the Alty job.

He talked himself out of the job by spending the first half hour telling us what he would need, the type of car he would want and the the fact he would need a budget five times bigger than the one he had acheieved success with.  And that as he lived far away (further than Hull) he would need three nights a week in a hotel.  

By the time we got round to the questions about what his thoughts were  in bringing through youth players it was immaterial.

[Ballers]

I take all that on board Ecky and perhaps I've misphrased it. The point I was making was that I didn't necessarily expect too much of LS in the way of his track record, which was the only measurable thing we could go on.

Some of the other stuff that, as you say, is important LS has done quite well in (some attacking football, bringing youth team players through). But that does need to be linked to a clearer development of the actual team.

[Jenga]

Just a point in question, how long was it at Man United that it took for Alex Ferguson to acheive success?

I dont know the answer to this question, but I am pretty sure it wasnt 18 months.

Now he is SIR Alex Ferguson.

Sir Lee Sinnott anyone?

[Jimmy Hill]

Just a point in question, how long was it at Man United that it took for Alex Ferguson to acheive success?

I dont know the answer to this question, but I am pretty sure it wasnt 18 months.

Now he is SIR Alex Ferguson.

Sir Lee Sinnott anyone?

Yes, but Ferguson had already broken the Old Firm monopoly and won a European trophy with Aberdeen. Lee Sinnott won the play-offs with Farsley.

The problem with using Ferguson as an example is it can justify keeping any duff manager for at least a couple of seasons.

[fuertes]

Yes, but Ferguson had already broken the Old Firm monopoly and won a European trophy with Aberdeen. Lee Sinnott won the play-offs with Farsley.

The problem with using Ferguson as an example is it can justify keeping any duff manager for at least a couple of seasons.

But taking into account the different levels, they're comparable, aren't they? By absolutely anyone's reckoning, three promotions in four seasons - including one into the Conference - is a hell of an achievement for a Non-League manager. Big name though we are at this level, we can't attract people who've proved themself by winning European trophies. So we have to take the best options open to us. Sinnott seems like a prime example to me.

And there are examples beside Ferguson. Moyes started well with Everton, saving them from relegation before following up with a top half season next time out. But then to all and sundry it seemed as if he was taking them backwards. They finished 16th the next season, including getting battered by an average Man City side 5-0 on the final day. But with the chairman backing him (possibly more through financial constraints than judgement - who knows?) the club persisted with a good manager and ensured there was a sense of stability and continuity around the place. And all things considered, it's worked out brilliantly for them on the pitch (even if Everton are slowly going bankrupt off it).

The board will have a better idea of Lee's qualities, dedication, medium to long-term plans etc. If they decide to stick with him, I'm happy with that.

[Hamilton]

Yes, but Ferguson had already broken the Old Firm monopoly and won a European trophy with Aberdeen. Lee Sinnott won the play-offs with Farsley.

The problem with using Ferguson as an example is it can justify keeping any duff manager for at least a couple of seasons.

But taking into account the different levels, they're comparable, aren't they? By absolutely anyone's reckoning, three promotions in four seasons - including one into the Conference - is a hell of an achievement for a Non-League manager. Big name though we are at this level, we can't attract people who've proved themself by winning European trophies. So we have to take the best options open to us. Sinnott seems like a prime example to me.

And there are examples beside Ferguson. Moyes started well with Everton, saving them from relegation before following up with a top half season next time out. But then to all and sundry it seemed as if he was taking them backwards. They finished 16th the next season, including getting battered by an average Man City side 5-0 on the final day. But with the chairman backing him (possibly more through financial constraints than judgement - who knows?) the club persisted with a good manager and ensured there was a sense of stability and continuity around the place. And all things considered, it's worked out brilliantly for them on the pitch (even if Everton are slowly going bankrupt off it).

The board will have a better idea of Lee's qualities, dedication, medium to long-term plans etc. If they decide to stick with him, I'm happy with that.

IMHO Moyes is the best manager in the country (behind Heathcote, of course  )

[Jimmy Hill]

Yes, but Ferguson had already broken the Old Firm monopoly and won a European trophy with Aberdeen. Lee Sinnott won the play-offs with Farsley.

The problem with using Ferguson as an example is it can justify keeping any duff manager for at least a couple of seasons.

But taking into account the different levels, they're comparable, aren't they? By absolutely anyone's reckoning, three promotions in four seasons - including one into the Conference - is a hell of an achievement for a Non-League manager. Big name though we are at this level, we can't attract people who've proved themself by winning European trophies. So we have to take the best options open to us. Sinnott seems like a prime example to me.

And there are examples beside Ferguson. Moyes started well with Everton, saving them from relegation before following up with a top half season next time out. But then to all and sundry it seemed as if he was taking them backwards. They finished 16th the next season, including getting battered by an average Man City side 5-0 on the final day. But with the chairman backing him (possibly more through financial constraints than judgement - who knows?) the club persisted with a good manager and ensured there was a sense of stability and continuity around the place. And all things considered, it's worked out brilliantly for them on the pitch (even if Everton are slowly going bankrupt off it).

The board will have a better idea of Lee's qualities, dedication, medium to long-term plans etc. If they decide to stick with him, I'm happy with that.

I don't think they are comparable achievements, Ferguson did what no one else had done for 15 years before him and something that has not been done since he left Aberdeen over 25 years ago. If anyone in football really thought they were comparable achievements Sinnott would be managing a bigger club than us.

I don't doubt that there are many managers than have done well after poor starts, however, there are also plenty of managers that might have gone on to be even greater failures had they not been sacked. The problem is when a manager is sacked after 18 months we will never know quite how crap they would have been. This means that we only see the success stories of having faith in a manager.

Sometimes it might be apparent after a season that things just aren't working out, unless anyone has any special reason to think that things will get better then I don't think it's unreasonable to change things (even if Ferguson was given more time).

[whopper]

What an absolute load of tosh! I am quite happy to support the team through thick and thin and cheer the players on but im not falling for this give him time sh*te budget or no budget if it aint working and lets face it it aint, fix it by january!! Or i fear attendences could fall etc

also comparing sinnot to heathcoate is laughable, gh virtualy lived at the ground speak to young players like sam sheridan etc they knew what a good manager he was and how much he cared thats why sinnot cant sign a decent rat into moss lane!