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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: ManagementGuru on March 02, 2017, 08:35:26 PM
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Rob Esteva, founder of the Stats Zone - one of the market leaders in Football performance evaluation - is bringing the power of his organisation to bear to help drive us forward.
See main site.
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Excellent news.
Exactly the type of person who should be getting involved.
Even more surprising given that he wasn't well known to the posters on this forum. ::)
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The more people we can get on board (in the literal and non literal sense) the better. This area is teeming with Professional people that can help drive this club forward. They should be queing up to join the board of this football club. Let's hope more and more are welcomed in and the closed shop vibe that has been given off for so long (and it has regardless of what people say) is a thing of the past. We're aiming to be a club for the whole Community, well let's make sure there's a 10/15 strong board of directors. Get these shares clawed back in from the people that haven't been for 20 years and get them up for sale, tell the multimillions worth of both wealth and talent sat in a 3 mile radius of the stadium That we are very much open for business, open for ideas and open for investment
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Superb news. Lets hope it makes a difference
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Just read his statement on the main site. Exactly what we need !
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There's no one out there remember.....
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Means nothing unless we have the right manager in post - and reading that article increasingly sounds like it going to be Matt Doughty
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I agree, on Sunday it looked like a new manager might be on the cards, but tonight maybe not. If Matt Doughty is in charge come August I'll be finding something else to do on a Saturday afternoon.
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Welcome Rob and your team. Wish you success with us. Excellent news I think.
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Means nothing unless we have the right manager in post - and reading that article increasingly sounds like it going to be Matt Doughty
That may or may not be the case, but I've no idea how you deduce that from reading that article. He only mentions Matt once and that is in relation to the upcoming Telford game. At every other point in the piece he is very careful to refer to "the manger" and not any individual in particular and in fact even goes on to talk about preparing for a next manager.
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Means nothing unless we have the right manager in post - and reading that article increasingly sounds like it going to be Matt Doughty
That may or may not be the case, but I've no idea how you deduce that from reading that article. He only mentions Matt once and that is in relation to the upcoming Telford game. At every other point in the piece he is very careful to refer to "the manger" and not any individual in particular and in fact even goes on to talk about preparing for a next manager.
Even the birthstead of Baby Jesus can't help us now.
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Means nothing unless we have the right manager in post - and reading that article increasingly sounds like it going to be Matt Doughty
That may or may not be the case, but I've no idea how you deduce that from reading that article. He only mentions Matt once and that is in relation to the upcoming Telford game. At every other point in the piece he is very careful to refer to "the manger" and not any individual in particular and in fact even goes on to talk about preparing for a next manager.
Even the birthstead of Baby Jesus can't help us now.
pmsl......very good
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Means nothing unless we have the right manager in post - and reading that article increasingly sounds like it going to be Matt Doughty
That may or may not be the case, but I've no idea how you deduce that from reading that article. He only mentions Matt once and that is in relation to the upcoming Telford game. At every other point in the piece he is very careful to refer to "the manger" and not any individual in particular and in fact even goes on to talk about preparing for a next manager.
Even the birthstead of Baby Jesus can't help us now.
pmsl......very good
Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh signed for us yet?
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Means nothing unless we have the right manager in post - and reading that article increasingly sounds like it going to be Matt Doughty
That may or may not be the case, but I've no idea how you deduce that from reading that article. He only mentions Matt once and that is in relation to the upcoming Telford game. At every other point in the piece he is very careful to refer to "the manger" and not any individual in particular and in fact even goes on to talk about preparing for a next manager.
It stands out quite clearly to me, for example
"Right now, plans have to be drawn up for next season. It has to be promotion, and the planning has to start now"
"I'll be meeting the manager and his assistant to start formulating some plans and ideas"
We need to get the manager right first, until then the whole thing is just pie in the sky
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"Right now, plans have to be drawn up for next season. It has to be promotion, and the planning has to start now"
"I'll be meeting the manager and his assistant to start formulating some plans and ideas"
I agree Doughty is not the man for the job.
However, I still don't see how that confirms anything. Every football club the length and breadth of the land and further afield always talk about the present incumbent in those sort of terms. He's hardly going to say "I won't be talking to Matt about any plans, because he won't be here next season" now is he? No business runs like that, even if you know in the back of your mind that is the case, you are not going to openly state it until decisions have been made and the relevant people told. I think he leaves it wide open and you can't deduce anything from that article.
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I may even be able to overlook the fact that he is both an Evertonian and a self-confessed Barry Manilow fan if he can help to identify a new manager who will improve our results on the pitch:
http://bloggerrobbie.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://bloggerrobbie.blogspot.co.uk/)
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I go and watch Brentford occasionally and know a few of their hardcore who run 'Beesotted' fanzine/podcast. The owner is big into stats, being a professional gambler essentially. Players are signed on that basis and its done them no harm at all. They play nice football and have signed some very decent players over the last few years.
A lot of the fans credit the involvement of all the stats for the sustained success on the pitch.
Welcome Robbie, I hope we can make it work and get you on the board!
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"Right now, plans have to be drawn up for next season. It has to be promotion, and the planning has to start now"
"I'll be meeting the manager and his assistant to start formulating some plans and ideas"
I agree Doughty is not the man for the job.
However, I still don't see how that confirms anything. Every football club the length and breadth of the land and further afield always talk about the present incumbent in those sort of terms. He's hardly going to say "I won't be talking to Matt about any plans, because he won't be here next season" now is he? No business runs like that, even if you know in the back of your mind that is the case, you are not going to openly state it until decisions have been made and the relevant people told. I think he leaves it wide open and you can't deduce anything from that article.
Reading the 5 year plan,
There were/are/is plans to use Matt Doughty, Robbie and Grahame to work on a scouting network. Clearly this is part 1.
The plan says that precious managers have blamed our scouting networks, so the board are addressing this. If we have a fully fledged scouting network, that will attract a better calibre of managers next season.
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"Right now, plans have to be drawn up for next season. It has to be promotion, and the planning has to start now"
"I'll be meeting the manager and his assistant to start formulating some plans and ideas"
I agree Doughty is not the man for the job.
However, I still don't see how that confirms anything. Every football club the length and breadth of the land and further afield always talk about the present incumbent in those sort of terms. He's hardly going to say "I won't be talking to Matt about any plans, because he won't be here next season" now is he? No business runs like that, even if you know in the back of your mind that is the case, you are not going to openly state it until decisions have been made and the relevant people told. I think he leaves it wide open and you can't deduce anything from that article.
Reading the 5 year plan,
There were/are/is plans to use Matt Doughty, Robbie and Grahame to work on a scouting network. Clearly this is part 1.
The plan says that precious managers have blamed our scouting networks, so the board are addressing this. If we have a fully fledged scouting network, that will attract a better calibre of managers next season.
Our scouitng of managers has been poor, that is the first thing to address. How can we conceive that a manager with one league win under is his belt in 12+ games is the man for the job? I'm sure you wouldn't have to look outside of the North West to find a shortlist of managers who we could identify as potential options all of whom have pedigree and who can work to the clubs footballing ethos and strategy.
Oh... we dont have a footballing ethos and strategy...
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The plan says that precious managers have blamed our scouting networks, so the board are addressing this. If we have a fully fledged scouting network, that will attract a better calibre of managers next season.
Our last few managers have been anything but precious.
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Means nothing unless we have the right manager in post - and reading that article increasingly sounds like it going to be Matt Doughty
That may or may not be the case, but I've no idea how you deduce that from reading that article. He only mentions Matt once and that is in relation to the upcoming Telford game. At every other point in the piece he is very careful to refer to "the manger" and not any individual in particular and in fact even goes on to talk about preparing for a next manager.
It stands out quite clearly to me, for example
"Right now, plans have to be drawn up for next season. It has to be promotion, and the planning has to start now"
"I'll be meeting the manager and his assistant to start formulating some plans and ideas"
We need to get the manager right first, until then the whole thing is just pie in the sky
He can draw plans up immediately.....but it doesn't say he'll be meeting the manager immediately. His background suggests to me that those initial plans will start with sourcing a proper manager.
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I used to work for Prozone, a very big statistical analysis company based in Leeds, with, at the time (I'm going back to 2003) half of the Premiership and a few bigger Championship clubs as clients (as well as some in Holland, France UAE and international rugby teams). Now this was analysis on a much grander scale, at the time it involved installing expensive camera and computer equipment at the grounds that cost upwards of 250,000). The company has since been bought by the global STATS company. It definitely works and even more so when you are one of (or maybe the only one) at your level to be using it. It definitely gives an advantage. Obviously this advantage diminishes as many other clubs at your level start using the same system (shouldn't be an issue at the level we will be at)
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Means nothing unless we have the right manager in post - and reading that article increasingly sounds like it going to be Matt Doughty
That may or may not be the case, but I've no idea how you deduce that from reading that article. He only mentions Matt once and that is in relation to the upcoming Telford game. At every other point in the piece he is very careful to refer to "the manger" and not any individual in particular and in fact even goes on to talk about preparing for a next manager.
Even the birthstead of Baby Jesus can't help us now.
pmsl......very good
Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh signed for us yet?
Unfortunately not... just the two Donkeys at the back of the stable :o
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Fantastic news and thank you we need all the help we can get
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I used to work for Prozone, a very big statistical analysis company based in Leeds, with, at the time (I'm going back to 2003) half of the Premiership and a few bigger Championship clubs as clients (as well as some in Holland, France UAE and international rugby teams). Now this was analysis on a much grander scale, at the time it involved installing expensive camera and computer equipment at the grounds that cost upwards of 250,000). The company has since been bought by the global STATS company. It definitely works and even more so when you are one of (or maybe the only one) at your level to be using it. It definitely gives an advantage. Obviously this advantage diminishes as many other clubs at your level start using the same system (shouldn't be an issue at the level we will be at)
Interesting stuff, but the difficulty would be in obtaining reliable and substantial stats on your opponents at Evostik League Level, as surely you need the fullest picture possible (taking your point, for the sake of this argument, that it does work - it would be interesting to see, well, the statistics of results for clubs who employ this method against those who don't).
Incidentally, if we appointed managers on the basis of their statistical record, it wouldn't exactly look good for the current incumbents.
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Doughty CANNOT be manager next season,it just CANNOT happen!! We need to bounce back straight away and a man who's precided over one win CANNOT possibly be next season's manager!!
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Welcome on board Rob and very best of luck in helping to put Altrincham FC back on track...
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Matt Doughty's combined record as manager and assistant manager of Alty in league matches - W4 D6 L23.
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The previous two managers can f**k off. What was Neil Young doing if he wasn't scouting this level when he wasn't managing for a year. Harvey too.
It's not hard to have a good scouting system, 'many management teams have done just fine. Messrs Doughty and Lawton should've been on the case too rather than relying on Heathcote to sign his mates or previous players too.
Also, do these stats have the profile to show the 'mentally retired' player? Because at this level they're the greater danger. From Twiss laughing at Heathcote's desperation at giving him a two year contract, to Griffith looking for a quick buck, to Tom Hannigan who fancies a quite life and gets injured easily and can't cope with the pressure of a club that actually has long standing fans or the pressure of a relegation battle. That's what kills you.
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I used to work for Prozone, a very big statistical analysis company based in Leeds, with, at the time (I'm going back to 2003) half of the Premiership and a few bigger Championship clubs as clients (as well as some in Holland, France UAE and international rugby teams). Now this was analysis on a much grander scale, at the time it involved installing expensive camera and computer equipment at the grounds that cost upwards of 250,000). The company has since been bought by the global STATS company. It definitely works and even more so when you are one of (or maybe the only one) at your level to be using it. It definitely gives an advantage. Obviously this advantage diminishes as many other clubs at your level start using the same system (shouldn't be an issue at the level we will be at)
Interesting stuff, but the difficulty would be in obtaining reliable and substantial stats on your opponents at Evostik League Level, as surely you need the fullest picture possible (taking your point, for the sake of this argument, that it does work - it would be interesting to see, well, the statistics of results for clubs who employ this method against those who don't).
Incidentally, if we appointed managers on the basis of their statistical record, it wouldn't exactly look good for the current incumbents.
By the way, the 250,000 figure (all figures are as of 2003) was just to install the equipment at the ground. Each match analysed was charged at a rate of 5000-10000 depending on the level of analysis required. For the full package, every player was tracked in 1/10 of a second intervals for the whole game as well as match analysis on all events (tackles, fouls, throw-ins, etc, etc. etc). A full analysis DVD was then produced and brought back to the team in question within 36 hours of final whistle. The package was delivered to the clubs by Eufa qualified coaches (employed by Prozone). So you also build up useful data on your own team that you can't possibly see all players for the full 90 minutes.
Yes, you are correct to a certain extent, that you need to build up a database of information before it starts to become of use and our level next season, I'm assuming we'll be at ground zero, so to speak.
As regards effectiveness, a good example would be a team called Al Ain from UAE who we took on board and they were the only team in their league to employ us. The league was dreadful at the time, it was like watching primary school football with everyone following the ball. After coming on board they had the most successful spell in their history, winning the league 5 out of 7 seasons (runners up in the other 2, this was between 1997 and 2004 (I moved to Ireland after than and left the company, so don't really know after that).
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The previous two managers can f**k off. What was Neil Young doing if he wasn't scouting this level when he wasn't managing for a year. Harvey too.
It's not hard to have a good scouting system, 'many management teams have done just fine. Messrs Doughty and Lawton should've been on the case too rather than relying on Heathcote to sign his mates or previous players too.
Also, do these stats have the profile to show the 'mentally retired' player? Because at this level they're the greater danger. From Twiss laughing at Heathcote's desperation at giving him a two year contract, to Griffith looking for a quick buck, to Tom Hannigan who fancies a quite life and gets injured easily and can't cope with the pressure of a club that actually has long standing fans or the pressure of a relegation battle. That's what kills you.
I can only speak for what Prozone did, but they would certainly show you what sort of effort players were putting in, from which you could potentially deduce attitude. Of course, all systems are fallible to a certain extent and if you get a player who was brilliant at a previous club, but for whatever reason over the close season has mentally thrown in the towel, it will not detect that until it's too late and he's on your books milking you for all you're worth.
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And as has been the case with 4 of the last 7 managers we've had, the mentally retired manager is equally as bad.
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The previous two managers can f**k off. What was Neil Young doing if he wasn't scouting this level when he wasn't managing for a year. Harvey too.
It's not hard to have a good scouting system, 'many management teams have done just fine. Messrs Doughty and Lawton should've been on the case too rather than relying on Heathcote to sign his mates or previous players too.
Also, do these stats have the profile to show the 'mentally retired' player? Because at this level they're the greater danger. From Twiss laughing at Heathcote's desperation at giving him a two year contract, to Griffith looking for a quick buck, to Tom Hannigan who fancies a quite life and gets injured easily and can't cope with the pressure of a club that actually has long standing fans or the pressure of a relegation battle. That's what kills you.
I can only speak for what Prozone did, but they would certainly show you what sort of effort players were putting in, from which you could potentially deduce attitude. Of course, all systems are fallible to a certain extent and if you get a player who was brilliant at a previous club, but for whatever reason over the close season has mentally thrown in the towel, it will not detect that until it's too late and he's on your books milking you for all you're worth.
what was the name of the lad we had on loan from Blackpool in the Unibond days - was it Keith Russell? Blinding when on loan, full of movement, ability, desire and goals. Signed him up and s p l a t.
Stats tell only part of a story, and sometimes can lead you donw the wrong path. If you've got the wrong manager then you've got the wrong manager, and we do.
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And as has been the case with 4 of the last 7 managers we've had, the mentally retired manager is equally as bad.
In some of those cases, I would argue they were mentally inept to begin with.
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Stats tell only part of a story, and sometimes can lead you donw the wrong path. If you've got the wrong manager then you've got the wrong manager, and we do.
Indeed, as I said above.....no system is infallible (including manager knowledge), but anything that can help has to be welcomed. You shouldn't rely on any one system or method and even then there will be mistakes......we are dealing with humans not machines.
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Managers and players at the lower reaches of the game, and who have a CV as long as your arm, are generally serial failures.
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The previous two managers can f**k off. What was Neil Young doing if he wasn't scouting this level when he wasn't managing for a year. Harvey too.
It's not hard to have a good scouting system, 'many management teams have done just fine. Messrs Doughty and Lawton should've been on the case too rather than relying on Heathcote to sign his mates or previous players too.
Also, do these stats have the profile to show the 'mentally retired' player? Because at this level they're the greater danger. From Twiss laughing at Heathcote's desperation at giving him a two year contract, to Griffith looking for a quick buck, to Tom Hannigan who fancies a quite life and gets injured easily and can't cope with the pressure of a club that actually has long standing fans or the pressure of a relegation battle. That's what kills you.
Spot on Ballers all this football science with its charts and graphs american thinking is bullsh*t - and I can tell you now will have no place in the evostick
Just appoint a proper manager and be done with it - this is just the current board trying to spread the responsibility wider and off them, its bullsh*t
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The previous two managers can f**k off. What was Neil Young doing if he wasn't scouting this level when he wasn't managing for a year. Harvey too.
It's not hard to have a good scouting system, 'many management teams have done just fine. Messrs Doughty and Lawton should've been on the case too rather than relying on Heathcote to sign his mates or previous players too.
Also, do these stats have the profile to show the 'mentally retired' player? Because at this level they're the greater danger. From Twiss laughing at Heathcote's desperation at giving him a two year contract, to Griffith looking for a quick buck, to Tom Hannigan who fancies a quite life and gets injured easily and can't cope with the pressure of a club that actually has long standing fans or the pressure of a relegation battle. That's what kills you.
Spot on Ballers all this football science with its charts and graphs american thinking is bullsh*t - and I can tell you now will have no place in the evostick
Just appoint a proper manager and be done with it - this is just the current board trying to spread the responsibility wider and off them, its bullsh*t
It's bullsh*t at our level for sure as there's no feckin data and none of the clubs could afford it to be properly done anyway, but it certainly has an effect at other levels.....it's not the be all and end all, but it can certainly provide assistance to a manager.