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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: RockyRobin on May 01, 2008, 08:37:06 PM
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Well I've just had a word with one of the creditors and told them to refuse the offer of 2.5p in the £, they are one of my suppliers whom we have a spend of excess of £100K with.
That's the good news, the bad news is that they are only owed £235!
Acorns turn in to oaks folks!
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Well what did they say? That they were going to refuse it?
Is it 25% of the debt that needs to refuse the 2.5p, or 25% of the creditors? I assume it's 25% of the debt obviously!?
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What a bitter bunch, haven't you lot cheated you way to safety enough. You have no respect from other teams and it's getting worse. Shame on you, concentrate on your own team.
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Tell us when we cheated?
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To be fair to HalifaxWhacker, threads like this don't make us too popular with the outside world - I mean "Creditor Update". However, the comment about us being "cheats" shows that those poor buggars are just as desperate as we are right now. What a f**king mess - it needs addressing once and for all I think as it's just not fair on anyone. Always the fans who are crapped on.
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Cheating is getting someone to do something you have no intention of ever paying them for.
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if the situation was reversed then a halifax fan would be hoping for us to go bust, thats just life. the idea that by staying within the rules and staying up because others dont, is somehow cheating, is frankly completely bonkers
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Whacker,
Bitter? - no REALISTS. Every year some team ends up proving any success they achieve on the pitch is on the basis of running up debts they are unable / unwilling to pay. Every year we have to put up with the 'no disrespect to Altrincham but we really should be beating teams like them' mantra from outfits who are living on the never never and the media's 'struggling Altrincham' phrase. If you experieced this you might understand why we take an interest in the finances of some of our so called superior rivals. A lot is made on this board and by our club of the difficulties we face as a part-time club in the BSP. What's plain is that there should be plenty of other part-timers as well but they're kidding themeselves, the fans and the FA that they're full-time outfits.
In order to maintain Halifax's full-time status we hear that they are losing £30k a month. The potential new owners are saying is that they'll only take over the club if the creditors accept £50k of the £2m owed to them. Whacker I'm sure a bunch of your mates could raise that on your credit cards! That's one thing, but they also say they will substantially invest in the club - great, but with what aim? stabilising the club? setting a realistic budget? - oh no they want to get into the Football League by increasing the wage budget! Just who is cheating who? - I don't think you need a Phd in Corporate Governane to work that one out.
Whacker, if we both had accounts at the same bank, owed them £100 and asked them to let me off for £2.50 I'd be cheating not just the bank but you too. Well this is where we are now - until some proper penalties are put in place for mis-management of football clubs we'll always get this situation, so don''t blame us for looking out for own.
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There is a massive difference between cheating and profitting from the mismanagement of other clubs.
2.5p in the pound = cheating.
You do the maths!
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To be fair to HalifaxWhacker, threads like this don't make us too popular with the outside world - I mean "Creditor Update". However, the comment about us being "cheats" shows that those poor buggars are just as desperate as we are right now. What a f**king mess - it needs addressing once and for all I think as it's just not fair on anyone. Always the fans who are crapped on.
Not really bothered about censoring my subject title!
Altrincham Forum, and it is not only true but also was supposed to be a laugh at the fact it is only £235.
Halifax Whacker is obviously a clueless knob jockey as others have pointed out in this thread.
Thank you one and all.
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Worry about yourselves boys and girls, we will be okay so get concentrating on the Blue sq North. 65% of the financial vaue of the creditors has to be agreed and bearing in mind that 50% of that has already been agreed we have nothing to worry about. You have cheated your way into staying in this division, to constantly rely on other teams going bust etc. shouldnt warrant a place in the league, hopefully this will be the last we see of you for a long time now.
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I cant see how this makes us bitter?
Surely you're bitter because your club isn't being allowed to sit back and make a mockery of every club in the league and all the leagues below by clearly cheating off the pitch to gain reward on it.
We're not the only fans who have no sympathy for your club, we're just the club who are in a position to benefit from Halifax actually being fairly penalised for their wrong-doings.
Go on every other forum in the BSP and ask who has actually cheated their way up the table this season. Morons like you aside you'll find a similar opinion to ours, just that nobody else is that bothered about you. Enjoy your tour of non-league oblivion next season!
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Well I've just had a word with one of the creditors and told them to refuse the offer of 2.5p in the £, they are one of my suppliers whom we have a spend of excess of £100K with.
That's the good news, the bad news is that they are only owed £235!
Acorns turn in to oaks folks!
Well imho if you pay £100k to them add another £235 to it on the basis he says no to the 2.5p and he still gets paid hehehe
Seriously though talk like this does not make us popular
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Has anyone got £2,000,000 they could give me please,i will give you back £50,000 now thats a good deal.
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Worry about yourselves boys and girls, we will be okay so get concentrating on the Blue sq North. 65% of the financial vaue of the creditors has to be agreed and bearing in mind that 50% of that has already been agreed we have nothing to worry about. You have cheated your way into staying in this division, to constantly rely on other teams going bust etc. shouldnt warrant a place in the league, hopefully this will be the last we see of you for a long time now.
Scarborough thought they had everything "sorted" and look what happened to them. You are an idiot!
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Worry about yourselves boys and girls, we will be okay so get concentrating on the Blue sq North. 65% of the financial vaue of the creditors has to be agreed and bearing in mind that 50% of that has already been agreed we have nothing to worry about. You have cheated your way into staying in this division, to constantly rely on other teams going bust etc. shouldnt warrant a place in the league, hopefully this will be the last we see of you for a long time now.
Nothing to worry about? How amusing.....
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Worry about yourselves boys and girls, we will be okay so get concentrating on the Blue sq North. 65% of the financial vaue of the creditors has to be agreed and bearing in mind that 50% of that has already been agreed we have nothing to worry about. You have cheated your way into staying in this division, to constantly rely on other teams going bust etc. shouldnt warrant a place in the league, hopefully this will be the last we see of you for a long time now.
The Fans of any club would be waiting and wondering in exactly the way that we are at the moment, if for no other reason that the uncertainly of which league we are in. Obviously all of the alty fans (like fans of any club) want to play in the highest league that we can, so want to get a reprieve.
I am interested by your comments about the legal side of the CVA, but, I think you may want to check this up.... I'm no expert in company law, so I went on google, and found a basic introduction to company law.... Perhaps you may want to read this to learn a bit more about the legal side of the process that your club is going through.... It should at least correct your misapprehension about the percentage of creditors by amount!
http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/business_solutions/company_voluntary_arrangement.htm (http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/business_solutions/company_voluntary_arrangement.htm)
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"A Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) is a private matter so the company will not appear in the papers so avoiding negative publicity."
Bit late now.
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I agree with Rocky Robin. All creditors shoulf reject the offer!
Unibond for Halifax!!!!
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Yawn Yawn, face the fact that you are not good enough, we even gave you a 10 point start..........Goodbye.
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True, £2m divided by 11 points = £182k per point, thats Premiership standard accounting.
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Suck it Halifax Whacker.......or is it Halifax Wan*er?
See you at Witton in the Unibond!
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Yawn Yawn, face the fact that you are not good enough, we even gave you a 10 point start..........Goodbye.
We're good enough to finish fourth from bottom - a position that would kep us up in almost every other league - while spending within the budget that our gates allow. If every other club played by these rules then we would certainly finish higher but instead they persist in spending beyond their means. I have every sympathy for Halifax fans for the situation the club is in but I have no sympathy for the men who got you there. Unfortunately more teams like Halifax may have to go bust before boards will realise that they can't simply spend money they haven't got.
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Well I've just had a word with one of the creditors and told them to refuse the offer of 2.5p in the £, they are one of my suppliers whom we have a spend of excess of £100K with.
That's the good news, the bad news is that they are only owed £235!
Acorns turn in to oaks folks!
Well imho if you pay £100k to them add another £235 to it on the basis he says no to the 2.5p and he still gets paid hehehe
Seriously though talk like this does not make us popular
Make us popular! Give a....
At the end of the day before the internet and cyber warriors all this would not matter and we would have discussed it face to face in the pub.
We're not here to win friends and besides any intelligent fan worth his salt can see who are the cheats therefore I have nothing to hide.
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Halifax Whacker may also only be about 8
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Yawn Yawn, face the fact that you are not good enough, we even gave you a 10 point start..........Goodbye.
It was very kind of you too. However I think if you ask the board of Alty we would rather have had the 2 million to p1ss up the wall. Your club is so badly run that you could only translate 2 million quid into 11 points in the BSP. How sh1t is that???
Given what our budget is 2 million would have got us into the football league. You lot are a laughing stock. What an absolute joke that your pathetic board couldnt muster up more points with 2 million quid of other peoples money to play with. Whatever league we start in next year we'll always be able to laugh at you lot!
What is it that you whack anyway?
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Im gonna get all the Moomins involved in this!
Starting with Snorkmaiden!
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How dare Alty fans take the mick out of Halifax Town. You had 3 seasons to stay up in this league and manged 4th from bottom each time, it really is a bit embarressing for you lot dont you think. Every season you have to hope that a club goes into finacial trouble. Try on the pitch and you might not have this problem each season lads. I knwo which team i would rather support, watch cr@p football, never win anything, the highlight of Alty's history was probably beating us or you rather support a team that has played league football, wins most matches at home? Choice is easy lads now how about you stop worrying yourself about Halifax Town and get some players in for the Conf North.
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If everyone at Halifax is as thick as these two I'm not surprised they are in such dire straits! ;D
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Brilliant there is two of them!!
Watch crap football and never win anything..that makes two of us then surely?
Did you pay bills when you were in the league out of interest?
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How dare Alty fans take the mick out of Halifax Town. You had 3 seasons to stay up in this league and manged 4th from bottom each time, it really is a bit embarressing for you lot dont you think. Every season you have to hope that a club goes into finacial trouble. Try on the pitch and you might not have this problem each season lads. I knwo which team i would rather support, watch cr@p football, never win anything, the highlight of Alty's history was probably beating us or you rather support a team that has played league football, wins most matches at home? Choice is easy lads now how about you stop worrying yourself about Halifax Town and get some players in for the Conf North.
Did you go to school?
Can you read?
Do you have an ounce of understanding in your body?
Are you a complete f**kwit?
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Im absolutely certain that this guy is closely related to the penguin that got raped by a seal on bbc news website.
Of course the highlight of our clubs history is beating you! Well researched.
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...And nobody says anything about the top bit then...
I didn't come on here to stir sh*t just to warn you not to take the piss when you yourself aren't even slightly a good club. Come back to me when you can stay in a half-decent league without hoping others go out of business. Used to have respect for Alty but after seeing some of the threads on here i really hope that you guys go down.
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...And knowbody says anything about the top bit then...
What does this mean? Anybody?
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Why would we want to come back to you?
I feel sorry for Halifax fans (obviously not you two) who have to put up with this....but in terms of embarassment its not our club that has left kids without Christmas presents.
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Yeah its annoying how we have had people in charge of our club who know jack sh*t about how to run a club or bussiness. It doesnt help when there are other teams who want you to go out of bussiness just to stay up for the 3rd season running. Very selfish and to be honest lads i think some comments on the board as a whole have been a bit of a disgrace. All the best in conference north(hopefully!)
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Yeah its annoying how we have had people in charge of our club who know jack sh*t about how to run a club or bussiness. It doesnt help when there are other teams who want you to go out of bussiness just to stay up for the 3rd season running. Very selfish and to be honest lads i think some comments on the board as a whole have been a bit of a disgrace. All the best in conference north(hopefully!)
I don't know how it's come across (quite badly I'd imagine, as you've properly riled some people on here), but I don't think there's anyone here that wants you or any other club to go out of business. We're all football fans and know that it's the fans who get shafted when their clubs get mismanaged. As was said before, I think w'//e all feel for the Halifax fans if you go out of business because we've almost been there ourselves.
HOWEVER, what we're also saying is that if we get reprieved again then we're not going to complain, and morally speaking, it would be a deserved reprieve because we spend what we have, as opposed to offering people a disgusting 2.5p in the pound after dramatically overspending.
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here shayman least our club is run by people that love the club unlike yours run by clowns
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Don't think anyone has wished a club out of business. At the moment we have been relegated. If we stay up then thats a bonus.
How that reprieve comes is also out of our hands.
Could be you..could be Rotherham..could be Kettering (unlikely I know)..could be none of you.
Oh and we reserve the right to post on our own forum if thats alright with you.
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Yeah its annoying how we have had people in charge of our club who know jack sh*t about how to run a club or bussiness. It doesnt help when there are other teams who want you to go out of bussiness just to stay up for the 3rd season running. Very selfish and to be honest lads i think some comments on the board as a whole have been a bit of a disgrace. All the best in conference north(hopefully!)
I don't know how it's come across (quite badly I'd imagine, as you've properly riled some people on here), but I don't think there's anyone here that wants you or any other club to go out of business. We're all football fans and know that it's the fans who get shafted when their clubs get mismanaged. As was said before, I think w'//e all feel for the Halifax fans if you go out of business because we've almost been there ourselves.
HOWEVER, what we're also saying is that if we get reprieved again then we're not going to complain, and morally speaking, it would be a deserved reprieve because we spend what we have, as opposed to offering people a disgusting 2.5p in the pound after dramatically overspending.
Yeah we know that is disgraceful. But some of the guys above these posts want us to go out of bussiness for them to stay up. If we go into the Unibond i very much doubt we can carry on as a club. Glad someone on the board appears to have sense and not see another clubs name in the username and starting being knobs.
And James Black, well done for pointing out the obvious.
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some of the guys above these posts want us to go out of bussiness for them to stay up.
Nobody has said anything of the sort. Why do you lie??
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Lets remember that Halifax have fans to people,while we hope for a reprive,remember its the fans that lose out,I honestly wish Halifax well and at the same time hope that we get that reprive,all be it at their expense.Remember without Halifax we would not have had much of a team.
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We are genuine Halifax Town fans, I would never wish another team to go under because they have been mismanaged by people who have no interest in the club, you guys seem to cling on to hope that fans like us will be without a team / club because of your failings on the pitch, sad bastards really aren't you.
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HalifaxWhacker I think your coming on here just to stir things. Get yourself home and enjoy the Bank Holiday weekend will you.
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We are genuine Halifax Town fans, I would never wish another team to go under because they have been mismanaged by people who have no interest in the club, you guys seem to cling on to hope that fans like us will be without a team / club because of your failings on the pitch, sad bastards really aren't you.
Yet still you miss the point. Nobody has said they want Halifax to go out of business at any point. As things stand we are relegated but if a reprieve is forthcoming it would be highly fortunate but we would welcome it with open arms. In that event your club would not "go under" you would simply be relegated to BS North. Find me one post on here that says we want your club to go out of business! There isn't a single one that I have seen.
As for your repeated claims about us "cheating" that is the most laughable thing I've read in a long time. As I stated elsewhere, the real cheats are the ones who are deliberately not paying bills and running their club at a loss just to try and stay full time. If you feel cheated by anyone you should look at the clowns who have been running your club for the last few years and then you will see who the real cheats are.
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Whacker,
Bitter? - no REALISTS. Every year some team ends up proving any success they achieve on the pitch is on the basis of running up debts they are unable / unwilling to pay. Every year we have to put up with the 'no disrespect to Altrincham but we really should be beating teams like them' mantra from outfits who are living on the never never and the media's 'struggling Altrincham' phrase. If you experieced this you might understand why we take an interest in the finances of some of our so called superior rivals. A lot is made on this board and by our club of the difficulties we face as a part-time club in the BSP. What's plain is that there should be plenty of other part-timers as well but they're kidding themeselves, the fans and the FA that they're full-time outfits.
In order to maintain Halifax's full-time status we hear that they are losing £30k a month. The potential new owners are saying is that they'll only take over the club if the creditors accept £50k of the £2m owed to them. Whacker I'm sure a bunch of your mates could raise that on your credit cards! That's one thing, but they also say they will substantially invest in the club - great, but with what aim? stabilising the club? setting a realistic budget? - oh no they want to get into the Football League by increasing the wage budget! Just who is cheating who? - I don't think you need a Phd in Corporate Governane to work that one out.
Whacker, if we both had accounts at the same bank, owed them £100 and asked them to let me off for £2.50 I'd be cheating not just the bank but you too. Well this is where we are now - until some proper penalties are put in place for mis-management of football clubs we'll always get this situation, so don''t blame us for looking out for own.
Absolutely brilliant post, fully sums up the 'reprieve situation' eloquently and conscicely, the point at the end is spot on - Halifax are not only cheating their creditors but also other clubs like us who run our club properley and ethically.
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That's probably the first time that JTH has ever been accused of being concise.
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oh shayman shut up what you having a go at me for.I am just stating fact that we are one of the best run clubs in the league, yet but for been one of them we suffer been relegated.
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I agree with Rocky Robin. All creditors shoulf reject the offer!
Unibond for Halifax!!!!
http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/index.php?module=see&lang=uk&code=9ba389860d30d1f3a68ed29cd9729bf2
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How dare Alty fans take the mick out of Halifax Town. You had 3 seasons to stay up in this league and manged 4th from bottom each time, it really is a bit embarressing for you lot dont you think. Every season you have to hope that a club goes into finacial trouble. Try on the pitch and you might not have this problem each season lads. I knwo which team i would rather support, watch cr@p football, never win anything, the highlight of Alty's history was probably beating us or you rather support a team that has played league football, wins most matches at home? Choice is easy lads now how about you stop worrying yourself about Halifax Town and get some players in for the Conf North.
We do not "Hope" cloubs get into trouble, but we do hope that such clubs that spend huge amounts of money with no intention of paying it back are treated with fair justice by the football authorities.
Alty: run well so remain healthy
Halifax: run like a dog's dinner and are morally corrupt.
I feel for the fans of 'Fax having to put up with the incompetence of the people who run the club.
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Yeah its annoying how we have had people in charge of our club who know jack sh*t about how to run a club or bussiness. It doesnt help when there are other teams who want you to go out of bussiness just to stay up for the 3rd season running. Very selfish and to be honest lads i think some comments on the board as a whole have been a bit of a disgrace. All the best in conference north(hopefully!)
We don't "Want" you to go out of business. We want you to be run properly, but if your owners & board can't do that then you cannot blame us & ours.
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What a bitter bunch, haven't you lot cheated you way to safety enough. You have no respect from other teams and it's getting worse. Shame on you, concentrate on your own team.
You still haven't answered a very simple question: How are we supposed to have cheated?
By paying 100% back to our creditors?
By making a profit?
By running the club effectively?
Go on, enlighten us!
All Alty fans appreciate your anxiety. We have been very near extinction ourselves and don't wish this on anyone. What we do want is for the authorities to make sure such cases as yours do not happen again.
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If we get a reprieve, it won't be because we cheated. It was because a club persistently ran itself recklessly beyond its means, owing money to all and sundry and got itself in such a mess that it couldn't carry on. Also if Farsley had finished fourth bottom (as they nearly did) this argument would be academic. I daresay Farsley fans would be asking the same questions on their forum as we are now...
The good people of Halifax who wonder why we were crap at times might realise that we try to run our club in a sensible manner and so wouldn't blow money on players we couldn't afford (therefore leaving people hopelessly out of pocket) and refuse getting ourselves in a financial mess. That's why we were crap.
They might also consider that if they had actually bothered to live within their means they too might be somewhere in Blue Square North already. But they'd have a club with a long term future as opposed to a basket case millions of pounds in debt. There would have been no reprieve for us either...
I wish no ill on any club, we have had our own problems in the past. But for the Halifax fans who find it acceptable for their club to shaft people for hundreds of thousands of pounds just to stay in a division, I have plenty of pity.
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f**k it, I dont care. I'll be completely honest. Shayman, you are a tit. I dont like halifax, probably since I was attacked by Robin Hood and three arabian kings on the Golf road one day as a youngster.
I will be quite happy for your club to go out of business. In fact i'm positively cherishing the thought that we might stay up at your expense. I want you to go out of business. I want your club to implode completely next week. I hope, just like you that we don't play you again for a long long time, except I hope its because Halifax is folded and forced to start in some tinpot regional league all over again.
Of course, I only want this to happen if it means Altrincham FC gets a reprieve and stays in the BSP. See, the thing is that I care about alty infinitely more than i care about Halifax or even the beautiful game as a whole.
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:D
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I dont like halifax, probably since I was attacked by Robin Hood and three arabian kings on the Golf road one day as a youngster.
I was punched full in the face by a man in full prison uniform with a ball and chain carrying a swag bag. That was before the days that prisons let people out due to overcrowding.
Loooking back had I reported the incident to the rozzers he would not have been hard to spot!
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Dont worry girls, you wont face us next year.
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Obviously. You'll be in the Unibond while we stay here. Goodnight and sleep well. Don't forget your teddy.
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The very nature of this post shows that you lot are hoping we go bust. Insulting everyone's intelligence by pretending that 'noone has ever said they hope we go bust' is a load of bollocks.
Let's be honest, you guys deserve to go down. We're talking 3 seasons in a row here guys. You are not good enough for the BSP. Face facts.
As for the creditors, they have a choice. Either accept 2.5p or get nothing. The consortium have made it clear that there will be no improved offer, the club will be liquidated and the creditors will receive nothing as the club has no assets to sell.
The major creditor is the consortium themselves, so they'll accept clearly. The next biggest creditor has already said that he'll accept. It is widely expected that the next biggest creditor will accept. That's over 50%.
If I were you guys I would start accepting life in the ConfNorth. And don't expect any f-ing support from us the next time there's a Save Alty appeal or whatever that bollocks was a couple of years ago.
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just to repeat for the hard of understanding
if alty had borrowed a few hundred thousand with no intention of paying it back, we would have stayed up quite comfortably. your clubs actions have put your club in this situation. if other clubs stopped doing this then we wouldnt keep getting reprieved.
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I cannot believe that some Halifax fans have the complete lack of intelligence to blame Alty for wanting a reprieve. The facts are simple Halifax pay out money for players they can't afford to get the required points to stay up then go into administration. Alty pay what they can afford and struggle to get enough points, its no wonder we can't compete with the false money Halifax are paying out. If they get away with paying out 2.5p it is a farce and how can the conference allow clubs to operate this way. Administration should mean automatic relegation end of story. Halifax are the ones who are cheating people out of the money they are owed and what will they do after it is accepted, spend more than most for players to keep them up next season and end up owing people again. PATHETIC!
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I wonder what the situation would be if we had beaten weymouth and halifax finished in 4th bottom?
I'm sure Halifax fans would be hoping Rotherham are OK and not complaining about the dripping pan being not fit for BSP....indeed they'd be praying they get relegated and that nobody who had taken points off them earlier in the season had been found to have done so breaking the wage cap.
wouldn't they?
Alty fans are getting embarassed at the constant relegations/reprieves......we are upset by photos of scarboro's ground falling into disrepair....but the fact remains we cannot comepete because other clubs spend beyond their means and we are not prepared to....the intial result is that we finish in the relegation spot......the end result is nearly always one of those clubs goes tits up and reprieves us.
What do you want us to do? join the club and buy 60 points with money we don't have and then go into admin....would we be an exciting proper club then deserving of our place?
No thanks we'll do it properly....we don't want other clubs to have difficulties...but maybe if halifax had spent within their means they'd have been occupying our place ....and no doubt hoping for a reprieve.
we are quite prepared to be relegated....it's just other clubs keep stopping us!!!!!!!!
Just be grateful our secretary isn't stirring things up.
Good luck halifax whatever happens.....we acknowledge it is not the fans fault when dickheads run clubs badly....halifax are without doubt a bigger club than alty with a football league background and a great stadium being built.
Oh and our greatest moment has oft been discussed....was it one of our 3 trips to wembley? drawing at goodison park? beating Birmingham? anyone of our record number of league scalps...winning the conference twice (and being denied promotion because clubs like halifax didn't want to vote for us because they were scared they wouldn't get a reprieve when they were bottom..remember that?)
Maybe we are getting payback for those times when 4th division rubbish used to reprieve themselves?
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The very nature of this post shows that you lot are hoping we go bust. Insulting everyone's intelligence by pretending that 'noone has ever said they hope we go bust' is a load of bollocks.
Let's be honest, you guys deserve to go down. We're talking 3 seasons in a row here guys. You are not good enough for the BSP. Face facts.
As for the creditors, they have a choice. Either accept 2.5p or get nothing. The consortium have made it clear that there will be no improved offer, the club will be liquidated and the creditors will receive nothing as the club has no assets to sell.
The major creditor is the consortium themselves, so they'll accept clearly. The next biggest creditor has already said that he'll accept. It is widely expected that the next biggest creditor will accept. That's over 50%.
If I were you guys I would start accepting life in the ConfNorth. And don't expect any f-ing support from us the next time there's a Save Alty appeal or whatever that bollocks was a couple of years ago.
You really don't get it do you. If you gave someone £200 and they gave you 5 pence back I bet you would be well pissed off. If you say no you are a) a liar and b) stupid.
Why should your creditors accept that detrimental return? When we almost went bust, we still paid all creditors back in full, because that is the right thing to do. The people who have run your club are at best useless, at worst corrupt.Their actions are indefensible. It is certainly not our fault this has happened to your team.
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Dont worry girls, you wont face us next year.
You still haven't answered a very simple question: how did Alty cheat?
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When he registered he mispelled WANKER
Altrincham Football Club are not cheats, muppet !!
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Idiot HalifaxWanker calling Alty cheats: Is it slander or libel?
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You really don't get it do you. If you gave someone £200 and they gave you 5 pence back I bet you would be well pissed off. If you say no you are a) a liar and b) stupid.
Why should your creditors accept that detrimental return? When we almost went bust, we still paid all creditors back in full, because that is the right thing to do. The people who have run your club are at best useless, at worst corrupt.Their actions are indefensible. It is certainly not our fault this has happened to your team
YES we do get it and it's all we've talked about for the last few weeks. Have a look at our forums. We know that the club has not lived within it's means. We know more than anyone else how mismanagement, missed opportunities, lack of commercial income and behind the scenes stand-offs have got us into this situation. Make no mistake about it, our club has been grossly mismanaged for years and it's the fans (as ever) who have suffered the most. We understand the concept of administration. We understand the morality issues in settling a £2,000,000 bill for £50k.
The people who have run our club have been clueless, or corrupt, or both. That's not our fault. The new consortium are left to pick up the pieces. They had no option but to put us into administration. The league rules dictate that we lose 10 points. We took our punishment and survivied. But you would rather we go bust than you go down a league.
Like I said, don't expect anything from us the next time Alty are looking for votes of sympathy, or if you guys ever go into administration (it could happen, you know).
Jezza. Understand your points perfectly and difficult to argue with them. The only reason I posted is because people were saying 'We aren't hoping Halifax go bust', when in fact you are. I'm not saying we wouldn't be the same in your situation. But to then go on and deny it is laughable.
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Idiot HalifaxWanker calling Alty cheats: Is it slander or libel?
You call him an idiot and then admit to not knowing the difference between liable and slander. How ironic.
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This argument will never go anywhere. No Halifax fan will want the deal to fall through because they spent beyond their means. And how many Alty fans are praying it gets the go-ahead because the fans didn’t ask for it? This is just creating ill feeling needlessly. As you have pointed out we may well need each other’s help one day so why lose it over some pointless row?
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Spot on, this issue isn’t going to be solved by the fans.
But it is the fans that always suffer. :(
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Idiot HalifaxWanker calling Alty cheats: Is it slander or libel?
You call him an idiot and then admit to not knowing the difference between liable and slander. How ironic.
Not really, writing on a forum can be seen as a grey area. Its not really print or spoken word, i'd say it is libel though.
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Idiot HalifaxWanker calling Alty cheats: Is it slander or libel?
You call him an idiot and then admit to not knowing the difference between liable and slander. How ironic.
Whoooosh!!!!!
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I can only repeat....I do not want Halifax to go bust.
The majority of Alty fans would rather relegation is decided on the pitch....with a level playing field though.
There is a large body of Alty fans....not all and certainly not a majority....who would actually be happier watching BSN football next year anyway believe it or not.
I personally would rather we'd gone down last year and were now celebrating promotion.
It's daft falling out over this expecially when you say you might wish another club bust in our position??!!
You are actually lucky it's alty in 4th bottomand not another club......if you do survive (and good luck) then you wont find us sending e-mails around the other clubs trying to kick you out.
The fans at alty who want a reprieve...want a reprieve...they don't want someone to go bust but if that's the cae it really is not our fault..just as it wont be your fault.
It was alty who wrote off £80k from scarboro to enable them to continue for a few years...and boy did we suffer through that....but I think alty fans are proud of our clubs stance on that......when barrow wanted to protest in front of the conferecne committee they chose to do it at alty's unibond shield match and were supported by us.....we have been in danger of collapse ourselves I'm sure we don't wish it on anyone else....even Northwich!!!! (who also got lots of offers of support when they were in the sh*t a few months ago)
Maybe you'll survive, finish 4th bottom next year and then see how you like being in the position of getting a reprieve at the demise of another club and being accused of cheating............it's not nice!!!!
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Quite agree Jezza. Geoff is no Colin Peake ! I could understand it if we were up to those tricks but we're clearly not. I don't think one post on here as said they want them to go bust, most just find the scenario with the creditors a bit of line, like Jennifers dad has said, if you were to lend someone £200 and they said sorry pal bit skint now could you take 5p and then said cheers just off to get the ferrari, you and a few others would be a bit pissed. Then you have the fans discussing new players like Lee Elam who, everyone knows, rakes in an absurd amount of money !!
You have to laugh
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i think the whole of you are giving yourself little respect.
football should be played on the pitch not off it.
the teams that go down are the teams that come in the bottom 4. that includes yourselves which means you should go down.
i think it is horrifying that you want a club to go out of business.
you had your luck now face the facts that you deserve to go down.
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i think the whole of you are giving yourself little respect.
football should be played on the pitch not off it.
the teams that go down are the teams that come in the bottom 4. that includes yourselves which means you should go down.
i think it is horrifying that you want a club to go out of business.
you had your luck now face the facts that you deserve to go down.
You, along with all your other mates on here, are as thick as f**k. Wanting a team to be kicked out for being a farce is not the same as wanting you to go bust. Have you got that now? Do you understand? Do you need this message in audio format just to clarify the point properly?
Jesus Christ these Halifax fans are thick!
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:D
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The four of you couldn't get together could you and send someone on here who can actually read what we are saying? There must be a legal guardian that can help surely?
Why do all of you ignore the points being made in responses to you? Can't you answer any of them?
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This is now pissing me off!!!
There are some over that hill who are really THICK!
I have said, the fans always are the one’s that are always hurt.
But no, you keep going on about us being cheats.
Just remember,
HALIFAX KEPT STOPPING TEAME ENTERING THE OLD 4TH DIVISION TO PROTECT THEMSELVES. >:(
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I can only repeat....I do not want Halifax to go bust.
The majority of Alty fans would rather relegation is decided on the pitch....with a level playing field though.
There is a large body of Alty fans....not all and certainly not a majority....who would actually be happier watching BSN football next year anyway believe it or not.
I personally would rather we'd gone down last year and were now celebrating promotion.
It's daft falling out over this expecially when you say you might wish another club bust in our position??!!
You are actually lucky it's alty in 4th bottomand not another club......if you do survive (and good luck) then you wont find us sending e-mails around the other clubs trying to kick you out.
The fans at alty who want a reprieve...want a reprieve...they don't want someone to go bust but if that's the cae it really is not our fault..just as it wont be your fault.
It was alty who wrote off £80k from scarboro to enable them to continue for a few years...and boy did we suffer through that....but I think alty fans are proud of our clubs stance on that......when barrow wanted to protest in front of the conferecne committee they chose to do it at alty's unibond shield match and were supported by us.....we have been in danger of collapse ourselves I'm sure we don't wish it on anyone else....even Northwich!!!! (who also got lots of offers of support when they were in the sh*t a few months ago)
Maybe you'll survive, finish 4th bottom next year and then see how you like being in the position of getting a reprieve at the demise of another club and being accused of cheating............it's not nice!!!!
Jezza.
See the highlighted sentence above. What evidence do you have to voice that opinion?
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i think the whole of you are giving yourself little respect.
football should be played on the pitch not off it.
the teams that go down are the teams that come in the bottom 4. that includes yourselves which means you should go down.
i think it is horrifying that you want a club to go out of business.
you had your luck now face the facts that you deserve to go down.
Read the posts! Twit!
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Dont worry girls, you wont face us next year.
You still haven't answered a very simple question: how did Alty cheat?
You finished in the relegation zone 3 years on the trot yet didnt get relegated, the club is living a lie and you are cheating yourselves by thinking you are good enough when you clearly are not.
This whole thread was created by an Alty fan who wants Halifax to go out of business because we have been ran by crooks, the money has not been spent on players, staff or the ground, it is in the back pockets of several shiesters who are no longer around.
I applaud you for the way your club is ran but I as a Town fan for 30 years hate to see other fans wanting teams / clubs to go under, if we are demoted that is what would happen and the only people who would suffer would be the fans, not the crooks with the fat wallets.
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Obviously we are not good enough for Conference National - we keep getting relegated! Clearly you are not good enough either, because you have to get 2 million in debt just to finish 5th from bottom, which by anyones reckoning is extremely desperate.
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Dont worry girls, you wont face us next year.
You still haven't answered a very simple question: how did Alty cheat?
You finished in the relegation zone 3 years on the trot yet didnt get relegated, the club is living a lie and you are cheating yourselves by thinking you are good enough when you clearly are not.
This whole thread was created by an Alty fan who wants Halifax to go out of business because we have been ran by crooks, the money has not been spent on players, staff or the ground, it is in the back pockets of several shiesters who are no longer around.
I applaud you for the way your club is ran but I as a Town fan for 30 years hate to see other fans wanting teams / clubs to go under, if we are demoted that is what would happen and the only people who would suffer would be the fans, not the crooks with the fat wallets.
Ok, one more time...
The first year was a farce, with the points deduction putting us in the relegation zone after we had stayed up. This was a clerical error, and other clubs have subsequently been dealt with more favourably by the authorities. Last year we benefited from Boston's problems, of course their financial mismanagement didn't affect our performance that season. However, if other clubs (Crawley being the main one) had spent what they could afford then we may well have stayed out of the relegation zone.
I doubt very much that directors have taken £2m out of your club, compare the budgets of the two clubs- vastly different, but i don't think there is such a big difference in revenue. Alty had its dodgy characters too- Gerry Berman is not looked upon too kindly. It is regrettable the laws on club owners may need modifying, but we paid the debts we had been saddled with anyway.
My view is that clubs should be made to repay their debts, if they can't then they should be demoted. It is tough on the fans, but there needs to be some real deterrence (the 10 point deduction is laughable). Also please note there is a difference between hoping for demotion and hoping a club goes bust.
Interesting to see the (lack of) response to Jezza's post on your forum. Tough to argue with the points made i feel.
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i think the whole of you are giving yourself little respect.
football should be played on the pitch not off it.
the teams that go down are the teams that come in the bottom 4. that includes yourselves which means you should go down.
i think it is horrifying that you want a club to go out of business.
you had your luck now face the facts that you deserve to go down.
Athletics is a race and it should be run on the track not off it. if someone takes drugs off the track it does not matter, even if it gives them an advantage on the track.
As for having our luck, watch our Weymouth game on Setanta - their unbiased view was we should have been playing 11v9 after 30 minutes not 10v10. If we had even a tiny bit of luck in that game this whole sorry debate (can you call it that when one side just talk and don't listen?) wouldn't matter. Alternatively there was that penalty in our match against you that wasn't given where your keeper pinned Senior to the floor..... you make it sound like we are so much worse than you when in fact even with your £2m quid we were a whisker away from beating you anyway!
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i think the whole of you are giving yourself little respect.
football should be played on the pitch not off it.
the teams that go down are the teams that come in the bottom 4. that includes yourselves which means you should go down.
i think it is horrifying that you want a club to go out of business.
you had your luck now face the facts that you deserve to go down.
Athletics is a race and it should be run on the track not off it. if someone takes drugs off the track it does not matter, even if it gives them an advantage on the track.
As for having our luck, watch our Weymouth game on Setanta - their unbiased view was we should have been playing 11v9 after 30 minutes not 10v10. If we had even a tiny bit of luck in that game this whole sorry debate (can you call it that when one side just talk and don't listen?) wouldn't matter. Alternatively there was that penalty in our match against you that wasn't given where your keeper pinned Senior to the floor..... you make it sound like we are so much worse than you when in fact even with your £2m quid we were a whisker away from beating you anyway!
Absolutely priceless :D
We had a penalty turned down earlier in the season aswell and a dodgy offside.
Are you lot fans, accountants or directors, the Halifax Town fans are the ones being shaffted year in year out, we have a sh*te squad and ground SO WHERE HAS THE MONEY GONE, I'll say it again, miss-management for personnal gain. The CVA goes back years and lots of honest people have been shaffted by MY club, not me or my fellow fans, by the inept greedy cXXts that have wormed their way in there and screwed us. The list is sickening and the sooner football clubs are treated like normal businesses the better, in all fairness Halifax Town should be playing Leeds in the unibond next year...but who does that hurt....the fans who do everything to help.
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Finally some understanding. Its like being a counselor this is. Yes your club got it very wrong, we don't hate you at all or want you to go down/go bust, but we are in a position we wouldn't be otherwise. Full Stop. Its not too difficult to follow if you step back from your situation and just think.
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V of D
Don't bury your head in the sand.....everyone knows there are fans who for whatever reason have often said they'd ratrher see us competing in BSN rather than struggle week in week out in BSP...oh and they can get to away games.
There was quite an argument on here last year with people saying rlegation was a Godsend.
My evidence is I've spoken to lots of these people.....they all passionatly cheer us on in the BSP and then shrug their shoulders and say "well, we'd be better off in BSN anyway"
I'm sure all Alty fans would rather see us winning in the BSP though so maybe I missed out that proviso.
As for Halifax.....we've made the point....maybe it'll go through their thick heads one day.
Interestinmg on their forum they are discussing a club in the play offs and maybe Lewes as having financial difficulty next year thus giving them an easy time if they survive.......I'm sure they are merely debating the issue and specualting not hoping another team goes bust so they can benefit?
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you are cheating yourselves by thinking you are good enough when you clearly are not.
erm who said we were good??????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!
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Lets just wish Halifax well for the future,and leave things to the people who run the game and see what happens
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This is painful reading. Would all the Halifax fans on here please pay attention? I will type this very slowly for you!
Alty fans aren't hoping Halifax go bust, it's not a black or white situation. There is a middle ground that I think we want that involves Halifax stepping out of the conference and reorganising themselves properly a la Boston United.
The fact is, that Halifax conduct has lead them to survive in a doshonest way, sorry about that. And it was close, if you'd given us Greg Young about a month earlier we'd have stayed up for example.
It is not a case of wanting another club to go bust. It is wanting a level playing field (and a reprieve obviously). I also think that there a lot of unanswered questions about the whole situation. Namely..
Have Halifax defaulted on a previous CVA? I think that has implications.
Have Halifax missed deadlines for the completion of the East(?) Stand? I think there have been warning given.
Given that Halifax are losing £30k a month is it possible that there is a wagecap issue? Even the softest penalty of a 3 point deduction would relegate the club.
As for the bit about Bosomworth and Ham having no choice but to pick up the pieces and no other option, well I think that's complete rubbish, let's just leave it at that.
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Simply - You spent money you haven't got therefore gained an advantage over other teams in the league.
As was said earlier if we spent money we hadn't got then I reckon we would have stayed up. Now you have gone 2million in debt and finished 5th.... from bottom .. That for me is proof enough that if you ran you club properly you would have gone down. Not rocket science son.
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Right. To begin with Halifax Town have not cheated!!!!
We have taken a 10 point deduction for going into administration. We all know the clubs financial situation is a mess and that Altrinham have quite secure funds. However people on this board have said that Halifax have broken the rules of the league. This is UNTRUE. If somebody on this board can prove which rules we have broken please state them. (because as me and many other Halifax fans would love to know????)
Halifax fans know we are in a sorry state right now. We also agree with your claims that offering 2.5p in the pound is criminal but it is not cheating. Despite our financial state we have always played and worked under the regulations of the league. Unlike teams like Leeds and in our league crawley.
Unfortunately although you are in a good financial situation it is on the field work which matters. You unfortunately didn't manage to stay up. We did (im not trying to patronise here) and this is why we should stay up. The finances don't look good but then again you can name dozens of clubs in the same predicament as us. As I know so far 50% of the creditors have agreed to 2.5p in the pound and only another 15% are needed to fllow it through.
Altrincham fans, I would like to say that I feel very sorry for you. You have turned the corner and are now in a strong financial situation. Making £70,000 pounds this year is some achievement. We can't manage that as you can tell. However I think your decline was that you didn't invest anything and also the fact your part time. I hav to admit for a part time team you were outstanding. I hope Halifax stay up this year but if you go down I hope you that you immediately return to the league. I enjoy my trips to altrincham and hope you keep chrissy Senior (he is a legend)
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Simply - You spent money you haven't got therefore gained an advantage over other teams in the league.
As was said earlier if we spent money we hadn't got then I reckon we would have stayed up. Now you have gone 2million in debt and finished 5th.... from bottom .. That for me is proof enough that if you ran you club properly you would have gone down. Not rocket science son.
We have spent money we don't have but it is not against league rules. What you just said is contradictory to all premiership clubs. If english football worked like that. Fulham would have won the premierleague this season because all top flight teams do it. The £2 million of debt has also not just appeared this season. This has accumulated over the last 5 years and would have been alot worse if we hadnt gone to the playoff final 2 years ago. You may have your view which is fine and i agree if we had done the same as you we would have gone down. However we stayed within the rules and though it may seem unfair it is not illegal. Good attempt to try prove something but its not right.
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I never said it wasn't the rules or that you 'cheated'- To me the rules are wrong, and not just cos we would gain but also on many things in football
My post was not about rules but about my 'opinion' I have not once quoted a football rule within it but simply stated that you spent more money than you have FACT and you finished 5th from bottom FACT and taking those things into account if you had less money then you would have gone down (POSSIBLE)
that you didn't invest anything and also the fact your part time
And here lies the problem - We could not AFFORD to go full time !
And just cos its over 5yrs doesn't make it all ok. I sympathise with the fans but the people running your club are losing more a week than we pay in wages and therefore are gaining an unfair advantage ?
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We invested the money that we had there. We spent what we had, you didnt. If a business spent well outside it's means to reach a target, it would be closed down completely. What we, as Alty fans want, is every team to have a level playing field in terms of expenditures (i.e everyone spending what they have got, no more), and if that means Halifax are relegated, so be it.
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Dont worry girls, you wont face us next year.
You still haven't answered a very simple question: how did Alty cheat?
You finished in the relegation zone 3 years on the trot yet didnt get relegated, the club is living a lie and you are cheating yourselves by thinking you are good enough when you clearly are not.
This whole thread was created by an Alty fan who wants Halifax to go out of business because we have been ran by crooks, the money has not been spent on players, staff or the ground, it is in the back pockets of several shiesters who are no longer around.
I applaud you for the way your club is ran but I as a Town fan for 30 years hate to see other fans wanting teams / clubs to go under, if we are demoted that is what would happen and the only people who would suffer would be the fans, not the crooks with the fat wallets.
Righty o, monkey boy.
I didn't say I wanted Halifax to go bust!
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Right. To begin with Halifax Town have not cheated!!!!
We have taken a 10 point deduction for going into administration. We all know the clubs financial situation is a mess and that Altrinham have quite secure funds. However people on this board have said that Halifax have broken the rules of the league. This is UNTRUE. If somebody on this board can prove which rules we have broken please state them. (because as me and many other Halifax fans would love to know????)
Halifax fans know we are in a sorry state right now. We also agree with your claims that offering 2.5p in the pound is criminal but it is not cheating. Despite our financial state we have always played and worked under the regulations of the league. Unlike teams like Leeds and in our league crawley.
Aldershot1234 how you can justify what your club has done is beyond me? You should accept that you owe small companies money and have run the risk of ruining many people’s livelihoods. Why should a small business suffer and you survive?? Your club had no concerns for the people they traded with. What about a small business that has gone bankrupt due to Halifax fc, are you going to put food on the table or pay the mortgage? Your management team never gave a toss !! Its not just about the football I hope they throw the book at you and you take your punishment. I do feel sorry for the real Halifax supporters who have removed the rose tinted glasses and are probably livid with the mess and will direct their anger towards the people responsible rather than try and justify the cock up on our website.
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The biggest issue with Halifax's 2.5% is that it provides no incentive whatsover for a club to pay its way. Why bother to run a club on sound foundations when you can wipe out virtually all your debt, start afresh but in the same league the next season? All it does is give the any club the green light to do the same.
Also, what happens off the pitch is totally linked to what happens on it. If you are bankrupting yourself off the pitch to fund a team to survive on it, then there is a clear connection. I stress again, part of the reason we have been crap on the pitch is because we were straight off it. Looking at Halifax and others, I often wonder why we bother.
As much as Halifax need to be punished (and if Alty were already rock bottom and 100% down I'd be saying the same) my anger is with the football authorities for constantly allowing it to continue in the first place.
Right. To begin with Halifax Town have not cheated!!!!
We have taken a 10 point deduction for going into administration. We all know the clubs financial situation is a mess and that Altrinham have quite secure funds. However people on this board have said that Halifax have broken the rules of the league. This is UNTRUE. If somebody on this board can prove which rules we have broken please state them. (because as me and many other Halifax fans would love to know????)
Halifax fans know we are in a sorry state right now. We also agree with your claims that offering 2.5p in the pound is criminal but it is not cheating. Despite our financial state we have always played and worked under the regulations of the league. Unlike teams like Leeds and in our league crawley.
Unfortunately although you are in a good financial situation it is on the field work which matters. You unfortunately didn't manage to stay up. We did (im not trying to patronise here) and this is why we should stay up. The finances don't look good but then again you can name dozens of clubs in the same predicament as us. As I know so far 50% of the creditors have agreed to 2.5p in the pound and only another 15% are needed to fllow it through.
Altrincham fans, I would like to say that I feel very sorry for you. You have turned the corner and are now in a strong financial situation. Making £70,000 pounds this year is some achievement. We can't manage that as you can tell. However I think your decline was that you didn't invest anything and also the fact your part time. I hav to admit for a part time team you were outstanding. I hope Halifax stay up this year but if you go down I hope you that you immediately return to the league. I enjoy my trips to altrincham and hope you keep chrissy Senior (he is a legend)
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I agree with everything you said Altyfan. The club over the last 10 years has turned from a league team to non league. In that process we have had chairmen who have no business sense and managers who have spent money we didn't have. This has left us in the situation we are currently in. I am not at all happy with what the club owes but the majority of the money is owed to former chairmen. A lot of smaller companies are owed money but not in large amounts. The sick thing is we owe schools money. The offer we have put on the table is awful and most can accept that. However it has been put in place so that we can attempt to stay alive. Things which killed us were:
the east stand-why we bothered i don't know but next season the stand will be completed after plans and financing were sorted out last month. Bad business sense
£150,000 on 1 player-Chris Tate possibly the worst player ever
Lack of merchandise etc- we dont have a propper shop or policy in place to help promote the club
extortionate pricing- charging adults £15 to see us play ( oh dear)
In the past we have cared little about the people we may have impacted on (then again the fans have been kept in the dark for long periods), but this last year with the consortium things have changed. We would not be in this mess right now if shareholders would have let the consortium take over and clear the debts. Unfortunately they were looking for the quick buck and things collapsed as they couldnt agree. Altyfan as for you I think that your reaction was slightly uncalled for. We have already taken punishment and survived the league. We are not angry with altrincham and are very frustrated with the people who put us in this mess, but some fans on this messageboard are been very cruel. People from our boards have been mentioning that some of you have been calling for our extinction. I hav not seen 1 of these posts and hope to god I don't. I just want to say that we are in a very tough situation right now and i think that the attitudes of some fans towards us is very poor. Especially after having quite a good relationship with your club over previous years. I don't want to start a fight here I just want to show our side of the argument.
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Just a question maybe an Alty or Halifax fan could answer but alot of the people owed are quite small amounts, £100 here £230 there, why didn't someone 'round up' the debts that were reletivley small and pay them off ?
Wouldn't it then have been easier to manage the CVA with the least amount of people owed money and a bigger chance of something being agreed ? Joe the builder owed £2k down at Hebden Bridge is going to be more pissed than a pen pusher at HMRC.
Maybe as mentioned above, that could have been done instead of the £150k spent on that player.
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Aldershot1234 argues his case eloquently and if the truth be known is a credit to his club. Whilst his arguement remains 'soft' and no doubt others will think so too, I agree with him that one or two of our postings have been cruel to say the least. Probably we need to lay off this a bit and wait and see what happens.
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Just a question maybe an Alty or Halifax fan could answer but alot of the people owed are quite small amounts, £100 here £230 there, why didn't someone 'round up' the debts that were reletivley small and pay them off ?
Should've had a word with Carol Vorderman. Could have rounded up all those monthly repayments into one, simple affordable loan ;)
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Just a question maybe an Alty or Halifax fan could answer but alot of the people owed are quite small amounts, £100 here £230 there, why didn't someone 'round up' the debts that were reletivley small and pay them off ?
Should've had a word with Carol Vorderman. Could have rounded up all those monthly repayments into one, simple affordable loan ;)
well done ;)
serious question though !
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This is gonna haunt us for years.....imagine if we win the league in a couple of season's time?
"should never have been in the league in the first place yu cheats".
The rules are weak.....administration should mean instant relegation....or your points set to zero and no further points can be earned until you've paid off your cva....then no argument.
What is Halifax's punishment?...a relegation battle!...is that enough?
No-one wants them to go bust but there is an injustice in teams finishing above alty merely because they've spent beyond their means...alty do it properly and have no chance! our only alternative seems to be to join the overspending club.
Is it fair on anyone at the moment...whover finishes 4th bottom next year will probably appeal if they don't get reprieved!!!
But we have been relegated twice before and earned our postion back on merit...we are prepared to do it again.....
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I agree as a Halifax fan I think our punishment was quite soft. Especially as it isn't the first time we have been in administration. Then again the league in itself is a joke. The league tries to keep up with the top divisions and punishes them the same. If the FA were to introduce such a policy the BSP board would most certainly change the rules to do so. On the other hand I do believe it is harsh for a team to be instantly relegated for going into administration. For instance if it happened to you, you wouldn't be happy. it's easy to say such things if you can take it happening to yourselves.
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i still think the correct punishment is to tie the size of the punsihment to scale of financial underpayment - if your CVA is 80p in the pound it is clearly not as bad as 2.5p in the pound. Simply ratio the points in the same way, 2.5p in the pound is terrible and you get relegated, 80p in the pound is not bad and it might be 10-15 points.
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There's a whole other aspect to this that never gets mentioned. Let's say for example that Halifax do get the chop, and during the season had taken 6 points off Farsley, but none off altrincham. Would Farsley have an argument that the points were gained unfairly? If a club goes out of business mid-season their points are wiped off, so why not if they get dumped after the season ends. Not saying they should, just asking why it's not done that way.
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There's a whole other aspect to this that never gets mentioned. Let's say for example that Halifax do get the chop, and during the season had taken 6 points off Farsley, but none off altrincham. Would Farsley have an argument that the points were gained unfairly? If a club goes out of business mid-season their points are wiped off, so why not if they get dumped after the season ends. Not saying they should, just asking why it's not done that way.
Because if they go bust during the season some teams will have played them and some won't so the fairest way to deal with it is to scrap all their results. If they go bust when the season has ended everybody has played them. The results should still count because at the time the games were played they were a valid member of the league.
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And Colin would lose 3 goals.
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i think the whole of you are giving yourself little respect.
football should be played on the pitch not off it.
the teams that go down are the teams that come in the bottom 4. that includes yourselves which means you should go down.
i think it is horrifying that you want a club to go out of business.
you had your luck now face the facts that you deserve to go down.
You, along with all your other mates on here, are as thick as f**k. Wanting a team to be kicked out for being a farce is not the same as wanting you to go bust. Have you got that now? Do you understand? Do you need this message in audio format just to clarify the point properly?
Jesus Christ these Halifax fans are thick!
If you took the time to read/were able to understand our posts you would realise that if the creditor's do not agree to the 2.5pc then the club will go bust. Not get relegated/kicked out. Bust. So by hoping the 2.5pc proposal fails you are hoping we go bust.
A few of you will come on and say sh*t like 'For the millionth time, we do not want Halifax to go bust'.
If that were the case, you wouldn't be hoping for a reprieve. I'm afraid in this situation you can't have it both ways.
Yes, of course you will only want the best for your club. In this instance that means a reprieve. I understand that. I can't deny that I wouldn't be the same in your situation. BUT by wanting a reprieve you are wanting us to go bust. f**king understand that and admit it.
You might not be want us to go bust in the sense that no football fan likes to see a club die. In an ideal world, you might wish that clubs managed their finances better and there would be no need for any of this mess (and Alty would then obviously storm the league). You might suggest that clubs which don't manage their finances properly are hindering clubs like Alty and not be happy with that.
But, for the purposes of this excercise, the only way you will get your annual reprieve is if we go bust.
So do you want your reprieve? Then you want us to go bust.
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or rotherham could go bust or some of the teams coming up could not have the finances straight, or wrexham could be found to be in financial trouble, or mansfield could have no owners / ground or money, or halifax could go bust.
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or rotherham could go bust or some of the teams coming up could not have the finances straight, or wrexham could be found to be in financial trouble, or mansfield could have no owners / ground or money, or halifax could go bust.
Eeerrrm...speak English.
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Well I understood it?
Perhaps you should get in a tin bath and roll down a hill like that cracking comedy set around your way. You are just as funny.
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or rotherham could go bust or some of the teams coming up could not have the finances straight, or wrexham could be found to be in financial trouble, or mansfield could have no owners / ground or money, or halifax could go bust.
Eeerrrm...speak English.
Tell you what..don't come on here if you don't like. Its dull as f**k now
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I don't think any of us want Halifax to go bust, but if it means we will survive then so be it. Look after number one.
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For the millionth time, we do not want Halifax Town AFC to be liquidated or go bust. What we want is, for the long term, best for both sides. Altrincham need to be in BSP to keep up the good work off the field of the last 6 years (and hopefully improve off it and become an established side ala Burton). Halifax need to sort themselves out off the field before they can compete again at BSP level and not put the future of the club at risk again. You only have to look at the example of Boston. A club that is rebuilding the mess that Evans and co left behind, but are now getting there, and there is talk from their fans of a promotion push next season.
Demotion for these clubs in finanical mess is a blessing in disguise. The demise of Scarborough wasn't becuase of demotion, but becuase of the extra 10 point deduction that eventually saw them relegated to Unibond, thus cannot operate in current climate. I'm sure that if Halifax were to be demoted, we would be seeing them back in the Conference National in 2/3 years time as a solid football club off the field.
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or rotherham could go bust or some of the teams coming up could not have the finances straight, or wrexham could be found to be in financial trouble, or mansfield could have no owners / ground or money, or halifax could go bust.
Eeerrrm...speak English.
Well what I was tempting to point out was that in your post which precedes the above post you state that we just want you to go bust as it was our only chance of staying up.
My post was counteracting that argument pointing out that there are many different options to us staying up and that possibly we may both survive.
Muppet
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If you took the time to read/were able to understand our posts you would realise that if the creditor's do not agree to the 2.5pc then the club will go bust. Not get relegated/kicked out. Bust. So by hoping the 2.5pc proposal fails you are hoping we go bust.
A few of you will come on and say sh*t like 'For the millionth time, we do not want Halifax to go bust'.
If that were the case, you wouldn't be hoping for a reprieve. I'm afraid in this situation you can't have it both ways.
Yes, of course you will only want the best for your club. In this instance that means a reprieve. I understand that. I can't deny that I wouldn't be the same in your situation. BUT by wanting a reprieve you are wanting us to go bust. f**king understand that and admit it.
You might not be want us to go bust in the sense that no football fan likes to see a club die. In an ideal world, you might wish that clubs managed their finances better and there would be no need for any of this mess (and Alty would then obviously storm the league). You might suggest that clubs which don't manage their finances properly are hindering clubs like Alty and not be happy with that.
But, for the purposes of this excercise, the only way you will get your annual reprieve is if we go bust.
So do you want your reprieve? Then you want us to go bust.
Lets put a bit of perspective on this nsd. Halifax Town as they currently exist are going to go bust one way or another this summer. What is being proposed is that the debts are wiped off with a minimal payment and a new company Halifax 2008 Ltdare formed. Th eonly thing linking the club to the previous one is that it will take the old ones status in the pyramid structure.
There is no difference whatsoever with the new company taking it's place in the NECL div 2 or taking a place in the conference. If they wound the old club up and applied and started afresh at the lower level it is just the same. Unfortunately I feel Halifax fans are tending to lok purely on the pitch, as long as they get conference football at the shay next season nothing else matters.
Sorry, but this heads in the sand attitude has got you into this mess in the first place. I'm not saing any of this is nice but I don't think it's right to come on here saying we are purely hoping for a club to go bust.
Also, these coach companies on the creditors list. Please tell me you at least paid them for th etrip to Droylsden when free travel was offered to supporters for the 'crucial' conference fixture the other month?
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just a few quick points to make, the other day, i had posted a long reply, giving you a back ground of our debts, for some reason the computer went on the blink and it got deleted, anyway just a few points to make.
* The debt of 2 million is made up of nearly half the cva from when we were in the FL, Basically when we went in to administration last time, we were made to pay the full pound in the pound to our preferred creditors( i.e. football debts and VAT, etc)
which came to a total of about 450,000
*Up until now, we had been paying 4000 a month paying off that previous cva and had only 40,000 to go till it was cleared. However as the current consortium had been issued with a windig up order by an ex chairman for 8,000 it basically allowed every other person owed money to place a winding up order against as. And as a result, the other remainder of debt from when we were in the cva has been added on to this current CVA.
So Basically.... Old Debt was 1.1million (The cva was to pay back 450,000 to the preferred creditors)
So the remaining 800,000 odd has been added to this cva which has taken the total up to 2,000,000
Now for a few interesting points.
* The majority of local companies on the creditors list have been from the previous cva, not this one, so all you going on about the free travel to droyslden and all that, can now realise that it was not paid for by the club..
* The schools and St Johns were also from the previous CVA. lets just say, since the last cva not many coach companiers, schools(where we trained) would touch us, and even if we offered to pay up front,(we had no training facilities up until about a season ago.
Also the majority of the debt apart from the 500,000 to HMRC(which is 250,000 for previous cva and same for this one) Belongs to rich ppl who have invested in the club or companies they own/ are involved in, i really dont think most of these ppl expect their money back, And considering nearly all the individual ppl on the list still attend the shay on a weekly basis and often seen sponging off the club using the directors lounge. Then im pretty positive that getting any money back will be more than they ever expected.
Also we lose 30,000 a week, but we have no commercial side ti0 speak of, when the take over is completed and the stadium finsihed off by the council, then i fully expect the turnover at the club to increase by more than 30,000 a month.
Let me ask you a question, How much money do you think your current board has pumped into your club..... Have they put the money in as loans.. or do they it out of the goodness of their heart... if they ever leave do they expect their money back?????
I will take whatever punishment or not, the Conf give us. I posted this only to give you some info on the whole situation, whether this changes any of your minds or not is down to u. But its better that you know, and be better informed about it
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i think the whole of you are giving yourself little respect.
football should be played on the pitch not off it.
the teams that go down are the teams that come in the bottom 4. that includes yourselves which means you should go down.
i think it is horrifying that you want a club to go out of business.
you had your luck now face the facts that you deserve to go down.
You, along with all your other mates on here, are as thick as f**k. Wanting a team to be kicked out for being a farce is not the same as wanting you to go bust. Have you got that now? Do you understand? Do you need this message in audio format just to clarify the point properly?
Jesus Christ these Halifax fans are thick!
If you took the time to read/were able to understand our posts you would realise that if the creditor's do not agree to the 2.5pc then the club will go bust. Not get relegated/kicked out. Bust. So by hoping the 2.5pc proposal fails you are hoping we go bust.
A few of you will come on and say sh*t like 'For the millionth time, we do not want Halifax to go bust'.
If that were the case, you wouldn't be hoping for a reprieve. I'm afraid in this situation you can't have it both ways.
Yes, of course you will only want the best for your club. In this instance that means a reprieve. I understand that. I can't deny that I wouldn't be the same in your situation. BUT by wanting a reprieve you are wanting us to go bust. f**king understand that and admit it.
You might not be want us to go bust in the sense that no football fan likes to see a club die. In an ideal world, you might wish that clubs managed their finances better and there would be no need for any of this mess (and Alty would then obviously storm the league). You might suggest that clubs which don't manage their finances properly are hindering clubs like Alty and not be happy with that.
But, for the purposes of this excercise, the only way you will get your annual reprieve is if we go bust.
So do you want your reprieve? Then you want us to go bust.
One very big precedent you are missing: Boston United.
They did not go bust and now, thankfully, seem to have sorted out their finances. However, last year, the Conference relegated Boston because of their financial mismanagement i.e. were not happy that their finances were appropriate for the BSP.
Thusly, we CAN hope for a reprieve for us and we CAN hope you don't go bust.
However, it is a shame to football and the football authorities that these debates can take place in the first place.
Halifax are a decent club, decent manager, players & supporters - just crap ownership.
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Also we lose 30,000 a week, but we have no commercial side ti0 speak of, when the take over is completed and the stadium finsihed off by the council, then i fully expect the turnover at the club to increase by more than 30,000 a month.
SDU, I'll believe the take over getting completed when I see it, until then it's 'imminent'
Likewise the stadium, the amount of deadlines that has missed is incredible.
Things aren't as bad as you think, you've been losing £30k a month, not a week! ;) Altho, if that is the case and you have no commercial income is there not a wagecap issue. I do appreciate you've tried to off load Young, Toulson, Stamp, Belle etc though.
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I have been reading this thread with interest over the last few days and as a neutral I have to say my symapthies here are with Alty
No matter which way you look at this Halifax have been playing at either BSP or FL when they could not afford too
Now if Halifax had over spent and donations had been made to bail them out then fair dos but to offer 2.5 p in the pound is an insult at the very least to me and all other taxpayers.It is all to easy to suggest that the downside is to put them out of business but at least it may stop further debt being incurred
Well done to Alty for balancing the books aand if you do survive due to others debts or indeed grounds not being up to it well thats certainly not your fault and something that none of you should even waste a minutes sleep over
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Thanks terraloon. This debate has been so polarised between Alty and Fax fans, it is interesting to get the views of a neutral, irrespective of which view they side with!
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At least we know we will be playing football next year.
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Personally I would like to see a season when everything is sorted before the AGM. Almost every season there seems to be a problem about clubs in the league. It wasn't too long ago when no-one got relegated because the teams that won the feeder leagues were denied promotion. I think it was the season that Hucknall won the Unibond. Is there going to be a season when we win the Conference by default because all the other clubs have gone broke? ???
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I have been reading this thread with interest over the last few days and as a neutral I have to say my symapthies here are with Alty
No matter which way you look at this Halifax have been playing at either BSP or FL when they could not afford too
Now if Halifax had over spent and donations had been made to bail them out then fair dos but to offer 2.5 p in the pound is an insult at the very least to me and all other taxpayers.It is all to easy to suggest that the downside is to put them out of business but at least it may stop further debt being incurred
Well done to Alty for balancing the books aand if you do survive due to others debts or indeed grounds not being up to it well thats certainly not your fault and something that none of you should even waste a minutes sleep over
I guarantee we won't be losing sleep over it if we do survive! The message is run your club properley or face the consequences.
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Thanks terraloon. This debate has been so polarised between Alty and Fax fans, it is interesting to get the views of a neutral, irrespective of which view they side with!
I'm impartial, and I hope Altrincham stay up! ;)
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SDU, congratulations on a sensible post. At last a proper reply on the subject, not just crazed crap we have had before.
Whatever will be will be.
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There are unfortunately people out there who take a look at skysports news and say "oh look alty have been reprieved again, the lucky cheats"...these are of course the people with no knowledge of how well run our club is and people who don't understand that the real cheats are the teams getting kicked out. As mentioned on many occasions, if we had spent the same amount of money as other teams did we would have accumulated more points, and so I'm sick of hearing that we should just accept we're not good enough for the BSP and should take relegation on the chin.
1st season- got enough points to stay up despite being part time...unfairly deducted 18 points, Accringtons f*ck up
2nd season- finished with a terrific 51 points, i think most people had accepted we tried our best but would have to face BSN...Boston in financial mess and we were rewarded for being run properly (still can't see where we cheated?)
3rd season- Why should we turn down a reprieve or accept we're not good enough...we would be good enough if we'd spent as much as Halifax...but we want to have a club in 10 years time
It's becoming a bit of a joke now some of these comments from the Fax
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Im saying my final piece. Your argument is strong but the point of football is to not finish in the relegation zone to stay up. Now in truth it has become a joke about how many times you have and could be reprieved. C'mon you know it yourself your simply not good enough. You should stay up by merit and not by finances. OK Halifaxs situation is stupid and I can agree but it has not been achieved over 1 year. A lot of this money has accumulated over the past 10 years and to be honest we have not been an vastly overspending club. We havnt for years bought players through mssive transfers. We have spent more than we make but then again tell me many businesses that don't. Many football clubs do it!!!!!! Simply our results on the field have not been good enough and a sharp fall in attendances and income can show this. I hope that Halifax stay stay up because we ARE a GOOD enough team to be in this league and even a 10 point deuction couldnt relegate us. I also hope that this farce of a league relegates you to the division which you honestly should be in and in a few years you may be good enough to play in the bsp once again. As for Halifax, If the AGM relegates us fine, I can handle it. However I certainly won't be happy with you retaining your place in this league. You honestly don't deserve it
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Im saying my final piece. Your argument is strong but the point of football is to not finish in the relegation zone to stay up. Now in truth it has become a joke about how many times you have and could be reprieved. C'mon you know it yourself your simply not good enough. You should stay up by merit and not by finances. OK Halifaxs situation is stupid and I can agree but it has not been achieved over 1 year. A lot of this money has accumulated over the past 10 years and to be honest we have not been an vastly overspending club. We havnt for years bought players through mssive transfers. We have spent more than we make but then again tell me many businesses that don't. Many football clubs do it!!!!!! Simply our results on the field have not been good enough and a sharp fall in attendances and income can show this. I hope that Halifax stay stay up because we ARE a GOOD enough team to be in this league and even a 10 point deuction couldnt relegate us. I also hope that this farce of a league relegates you to the division which you honestly should be in and in a few years you may be good enough to play in the bsp once again. As for Halifax, If the AGM relegates us fine, I can handle it. However I certainly won't be happy with you retaining your place in this league. You honestly don't deserve it
Its a conundrum:
In footballing terms you do, indeed, deserve to stay up & we don't
In financial terms the opposite is true.
What happens on the pitch should decide who is relegated or not, but if you spend someone else's money with no apparent intention to pay it back then action has to be taken.
It is embarrassing we keep getting these reprieves, but I am sure you would not turn them down if you were in our position.
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Im saying my final piece. Your argument is strong but the point of football is to not finish in the relegation zone to stay up. Now in truth it has become a joke about how many times you have and could be reprieved. C'mon you know it yourself your simply not good enough. You should stay up by merit and not by finances. OK Halifaxs situation is stupid and I can agree but it has not been achieved over 1 year. A lot of this money has accumulated over the past 10 years and to be honest we have not been an vastly overspending club. We havnt for years bought players through mssive transfers. We have spent more than we make but then again tell me many businesses that don't. Many football clubs do it!!!!!! Simply our results on the field have not been good enough and a sharp fall in attendances and income can show this. I hope that Halifax stay stay up because we ARE a GOOD enough team to be in this league and even a 10 point deuction couldnt relegate us. I also hope that this farce of a league relegates you to the division which you honestly should be in and in a few years you may be good enough to play in the bsp once again. As for Halifax, If the AGM relegates us fine, I can handle it. However I certainly won't be happy with you retaining your place in this league. You honestly don't deserve it
Its a conundrum:
In footballing terms you do, indeed, deserve to stay up & we don't
In financial terms the opposite is true.
What happens on the pitch should decide who is relegated or not, but if you spend someone else's money with no apparent intention to pay it back then action has to be taken.
It is embarrassing we keep getting these reprieves, but I am sure you would not turn them down if you were in our position.
Exactly. This argument will go round in circles, there is no winner from this. If being reckless off the pitch helps you on it then there is a clear connection. If we stay up it is because Halifax went bust. Where is the incentive for a club to pay its way? If we had finished 3rd bottom no doubt Farsley would be asking the same as us. It ain't the fault of the Halifax fans. Is it Alty's fault? Why should our other repreives have any bearing on what happens to Halifax? Who is denying we have been crap? Who wants to see a club go bust?
Peake me to death for this, but maybe both of us should get relegated. Then nobody can point the bloody finger anywhere.
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Exactly. This argument will go round in circles, there is no winner from this. If being reckless off the pitch helps you on it then there is a clear connection. If we stay up it is because Halifax went bust. Where is the incentive for a club to pay its way? If we had finished 3rd bottom no doubt Farsley would be asking the same as us. It ain't the fault of the Halifax fans. Is it Alty's fault? Why should our other repreives have any bearing on what happens to Halifax? Who is denying we have been crap? Who wants to see a club go bust?
Peake me to death for this, but maybe both of us should get relegated. Then nobody can point the bloody finger anywhere.
Peake? Have a Goodwin!
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We have spent more than we make but then again tell me many businesses that don't.
You know, most businesses actually make a profit. The ones that don't eventually go bust - except in football it seems ::)
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Having just read all 9 pages of this (do I get a medal?) I can safely say that aldershot1234 is without a doubt the thickest opposition fan I have ever seen post on here.
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That's very harsh SLA. IMO He's not even the thockest opposition fan to post on this thread!
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Having just read all 9 pages of this (do I get a medal?) I can safely say that aldershot1234 is without a doubt the thickest opposition fan I have ever seen post on here.
Aldershot1234 is relatively eloquent. Halifax Whacker takes the thicky award
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Having just read all 9 pages of this (do I get a medal?) I can safely say that aldershot1234 is without a doubt the thickest opposition fan I have ever seen post on here.
Aldershot1234 is relatively eloquent. Halifax Whacker takes the thicky award
Halifax Whacker may be the offspring of a farmer and a sheep.
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Having just read all 9 pages of this (do I get a medal?) I can safely say that aldershot1234 is without a doubt the thickest opposition fan I have ever seen post on here.
Aldershot1234 is relatively eloquent. Halifax Whacker takes the thicky award
Halifax Whacker may be the offspring of a farmer and a sheep.
No thats Macclesfield ;)
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Having just read all 9 pages of this (do I get a medal?) I can safely say that aldershot1234 is without a doubt the thickest opposition fan I have ever seen post on here.
Aldershot1234 is relatively eloquent. Halifax Whacker takes the thicky award
Halifax Whacker may be the offspring of a farmer and a sheep.
Job for Halifax Whacker: Village requires Idiot!
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I do hope you go bust Halifax! Your all cocks on this forum htfc fans! Go and run ur club properly! In the unibond!
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I do hope you go bust Halifax! Your all cocks on this forum htfc fans! Go and run ur club properly! In the unibond!
That's a little uncalled for. Every club has their share of trolls and it isn't the fault of the Halifax fans that their club finds itself in this position. Basically the football authorities are the ones to blame for this recurring mess at the end of every season. They need to get their house in order and tighten up the regulations so that this could never happen again. If you leave gaping loopholes in your legislation, then unscrupulous types will always look to exploit them (in fact I have visions of sleazy chairmen kerb crawling around the brothels that are the football authorities HQs).
I do not hope Halifax go bust. I do not think the punishment fits the crime, but once again whose fault is that? I will gladly take a reprieve like most other Alty fans, however it comes, but it will be no cause for great celebration. This is becoming a huge embarrassment season after season.
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I do hope you go bust Halifax! Your all cocks on this forum htfc fans! Go and run ur club properly! In the unibond!
That's a little uncalled for. Every club has their share of trolls and it isn't the fault of the Halifax fans that their club finds itself in this position. Basically the football authorities are the ones to blame for this recurring mess at the end of every season. They need to get their house in order and tighten up the regulations so that this could never happen again. If you leave gaping loopholes in your legislation, then unscrupulous types will always look to exploit them (in fact I have visions of sleazy chairmen kerb crawling around the brothels that are the football authorities HQs).
I do not hope Halifax go bust. I do not think the punishment fits the crime, but once again whose fault is that? I will gladly take a reprieve like most other Alty fans, however it comes, but it will be no cause for great celebration. This is becoming a huge embarrassment season after season.
NONE OF IT IS ALTY'S FAULT